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The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing
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shotgunmcos wrote: »That's like a tiny bite sized sample of the Hanson SOS routine
You heading into that direction now? Thoughts on the 60-80mpw plan vs what you used for the 2:52:59?
What would you say is the most important thing you learned about cramp in the last 2 years?
Hansons Plan: If I had 16 weeks again to train for a marathon - I'd really consider it - I think its a very tough plan with a lot of fast running.
Cramp: I thought I'd cracked it on 2 occasions - once following the Steve Way plan from Bournemouth AC when I finished San Seb in my 1st sub 3 with NO cramp - in reality, I think I was in better shape (maybe low 2.50's), so ran within myself.
The other time was for Rotterdam, doing strength work - I thought, this would help. And it didn't - well, maybe a bit 'cos it was such a warm day, its difficult to tell.
My plan for Dublin this year (if I do it) will be based on Brad Hudson - I bought his book earlier in the year as I think longer runs at race pace or faster will help.
My plans to date have had many runs with long interval type running as opposed to 10m straight at an alternating tempo - or a few weeks of 15m at MP (rather than breaking it up).
The Hansons 60-80 plan could be a good one for Berlin in 2020.
So I think that'll be my next 'Great White Hope' - other than that, I'll be boxing the $hite outta my hammys going up Roebuck Hill and at the Flyuover
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shotgunmcos wrote:You did 2.8m at 5.55 pace within a session on Tuesday. Eh, I reckon low 18 is doable...
He's a legendary sandbagger 0 -
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Difficult to find the time to update here. Work has a filter on this site, so cant update in work.
I'm actually working, in work, these days - apart from when I work at home
Wednesday 22nd June: Due to my travel & Tuesdays race, this was my long run day. I decided to keep it to 10-12 miles.
Ran down to the PP, done a lap of the park and ran home.
I really enjoyed this - pace a bit faster than my usual daily runs, but on a par with my long runs - it was a great evening for running.
Doing this route, the 1st 6m are down hill but the next 5 or so miles are climbing from Parkgate street to Castleknock.
11m @ 7.40 pace
Thursday: Parked at Farmleigh and ran the trails of the PP - lovely run, nothing too taking.
7m @ 8.25
Friday: I was unsure if I should do a session today as I knew I had a hill run on Saturday with the club. I checked previous hill runs and noted that prior to the last run I had done a 5x1m session - grand I thought - no bother, I'll do an 'easy' speed session so I'll be grand for the hill run.
3x(30/45/60/90) with equal time recovery. Paces ranged from 4.50's for the shorter reps to 5.10's for the 90s.
Another great workout and a lot more difficult than I gave it credit for.
There's about 3.3k worth of 'mile pace' effort in there.
That should be the end of the full speed sessions for a while (barring strides or speedwork as part of a bigger session).
8.3m total.
Saturday: Club Hill Run
Met the gang at 7.45 and headed off to Crone Wood car park as a send off for 2 clubmates heading to the US.
Some people just go for pints, but we run up a mountain.
A good gang of 19-20 of us started off, with a group of 5-6 instructed to do 2 loops early on to ensure we reach the summit together.
Within 5 mins I was regretting doing the speed session the previous day and also regretting being part of the gang doing the additional mile loop. The legs were giving out.
The initial climb is hard but then we turned off and went up through the trees (apparently used during the Irish Mountain running trials) and we were doing 13 min/miles and sweating. Hearts in mouths type of stuff.
The gang of 6 turned left and went back down to do that again..........great.
Those who have ran Djouce before know the views you get a Powerscourt waterfall - absolutely stunning.
The run turned into a run/jog and walk in places as the climb was taking its toll.
By the time we reached the top, the other gang had been there a couple of mins - took our photo and back down we went.
The run back down is the most enjoyable bit - dangerous in places but exhilarating as well.
Finished off the last mile or so at 7 min/mile pace (going downhill) but certainly feeling the pace in the legs.
Then off to Avoca for some serious food!
10.25 miles at 10.27 pace average (Fastest mile split was 7.04 / Slowest was 12.44)
Sunday:
Wife and Childer were out - so bored at home - Phoenix Park trails were calling despite the tired legs.
7.63 @ 8.41 pace.
54 Miles for the week: A good weeks training
Monday 27th: 3 miles slow recovery on the treadmill and 20-30 mins stretching. My calfs and glutes screaming at me.
Tuesday: Body still not ready for a session - some easy miles down to the PP and back and 6x30s strides.
Missed the Dunboyne BHAA 5m tonight - my 1st time missing it in 6-7 years or so.
7.4m - 8.13 pace
Wednesday Session - I had the Daniels 4x200/ 5x1m / 4x200 on the plan, but decided that that would be very tough given the lingering fatigue.
I decided to do CV reps (a bit faster than tempo but slower than 10k) and limit it to 3 or 4 x5min reps with 1 min recovery - then re-evaluate.
Started off with 4x200 (or 40secs) and then went into the 1st 5 min rep - felt ok, but a little fast.
2nd rep I was feeling it.
On the 3rd rep - I needed some mind tricks - so I told myself to do 10 mins at 6.20 pace instead of 5 mins at 5.55.
3 mins later I'm cruising at 5.55 pace and held on for 2 more mins to complete a 3rd 5 min rep.
Debated on a 4th rep - but went at it and seen it out - there would be no way a 5th rep would be done (with any mind games).
I took a 5 min jog recovery and then went into some faster and shorter reps.
8x1min off/on later (Up Chesterfield into the wind) and I'm nicely cooked, back up at Farmleigh with 2 miles cool down awaiting me to get home.
So in total - about 30 mins of 'work' in that session - legs were cramping a little when I got home due to the copious amounts of sweat I lost!
11.1 miles total.
I still don't feel fully in control of my sessions and running. I'm adapting a lot of sessions post Marathon - I suppose that's only normal.
While not 100% committed to doing DCM - If I am doing it, I'm settling on a plan - rather than Daniels from the 2nd edition book - it will be Daniels 3rd edition - which has a lot more 'longer MP runs' than the 2nd Ed.
Still considering the longer Hansons plan and Brad Hudsons plan - but I think Daniels works for me.0 -
AuldManKing wrote: »Missed the Dunboyne BHAA 5m tonight - my 1st time missing it in 6-7 years or so.
Not as good this year, same start line, but we finished on the field beside the track, which was pretty uneven, and a pretty steep entry into the field to boot.
Still at the end the Sambos, Swiss rolls, jaffa's and current cake, were in same volume as in years past
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MisterDrak wrote: »Not as good this year, same start line, but we finished on the field beside the track, which was pretty uneven, and a pretty steep entry into the field to boot.
Still at the end the Sambos, Swiss rolls, jaffa's and current cake, were in same volume as in years past
Thanks Dave - good to see the feed was the same.
I'd have made it to the grass verge in 28 flat then taken 5 mins to cover the last 400 (I dislike XC) 0 -
Thursday: Easy lap of the park - 7miles at 8.21 pace.
Friday: Easy Trails around the PP and 6x10s hill sprints (trail coming out of the Glen facing the Furze/OS interchange) & 6x20s strides.
Legs were tired starting this and nearly left it, but felt great at the end.
5.4m
Saturday Session day - 4x200 / 2x1km@5k / 3x800@5k / 2x1km Tempo (all off 60-90 secs)
After a 2 mile WU - 4x200 to start at Mile pace - with a walk back recovery.
Then the hard bits at 5k pace - well Holy God - that was horrible. After the 1st km I was swimming in Lactate, naturally I went out too fast which didnt help matters - I dont think I was sweating - I think I was 'lactating' through my pores. I hadn't felt that in a while - that was after 1k.
Managed the 2nd KM and then the 3x800's - the last 800 was a total mess. Nothing in the legs. Most reps at 5.3x - last 800 was 5.46.
I took a bit of a walk break after the 5k paced stuff and considered canning the session. - What I had done was enough.
I was even getting that taste of blood in your spit that I've heard about when you run really hard.
But - As I'm mentally strong - I seen out the last 2 reps. I had wanted these done at a pace closer to 10k pace, but was happy enough just to get then done at any semblance of a fast pace. (last 2x1k were at 6.05/6.07 - which was pleasing).
Before the jog home, I sat on a bench in the park - contemplating.More on this in a different post.
10 miles for the day.
Sunday: Long run.
Only 5 of us this morning for the club run - I enjoyed a good 6.5 miles of company with them, before they departed and I completed another loop on my own - trying to do the 2nd loop faster.
Really enjoyed that.
13.4m @ 7.51 (1st 6@8.15 / rest about 7.30'ish)
Longest run and biggest mileage week in a while.
58m for the week.0 -
So following my session on Saturday and how tough I found it, I found myself on a bench in the Phoenix Park, sweating something terrible and having little energy in the legs.
My main thoughts were swimming around what type of runner I am at the moment - what am I training for? What is the main thing?
Is it a 5k PB, is it a 10k PB is it the Marathon or the race series??
The perils of running a Spring Marathon mean that you try to 'rush' back to fitness - you want to hit peak by the summer races to salvage your good marathon training, but you also want to start thinking about your next Marathon in the Autumn.
So all the training seems to meld into one - and you couch it and hide it under the term 'Adaptive Training'.
The sessions you done last year (Daniels) now seem a lot harder than they were - so you adapt them - thats ok, thats logical.
You are racing a 5k - so lets throw in a 5k type session into the pot - doesn't matter that you've not progressed it it in any way, does it?
The result is something that comes out over cooked, and I like my food slightly al dente and medium.............
So we need a different recipe.
Here's my summarised take away.
* Spring marathons should come with caveats (especially for us old lads), though shalt NOT try to train through recovery time and race PB's within a short period of time.
* I cant expect to rock up to a 5k paced session like I did on Saturday and blast it - I should have progressed the plan.
* I cant train for a 5k/10k and marathon all at the same time - I have to be clear on the main thing.
* I cant do another round of Daniels Sessions (& always 'adapt' them) and maintain motivation.
Here's my plan based on this:
* I'll stop using Daniels from today and move onto Brad Hudsons plans for the remainder of the shorter race season & also for DCM.
* I'll run Bohermeen 5k next Friday and Clonee on 27th June - Both are not Goal races (but I expect to run well )
* Next goal race will be the Race Series 10k towards the end of July.
I'll have started the Marathon version of Hudsons plan by then.
* I plan to race the F.Duffy 10m and the Race Series HM - I haven't raced these properly, since God was a boy due to Marathon Training - the plan allows for 10m & HM races.
Contemplation over.
The Plan is Dead. Long live the Plan.0 -
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Swashbuckler wrote: »Fair play for actually sitting down and having that thought process and sharing it. A lot of us probably don't do it enough.
I definitely empathize a bit. It's definitely an adjustment coming off coaching and figuring it out yourself. There are benefits of course and accountability is one of the big ones I find. I think you're the same as me in that sense. There's a lot to be said for being responsible for your own successes and failures. That being said it's a tricky thing to know when and how you should be doing things. I've found it myself the last while and I pretty much know what the main thing is!
I think you've been doing a great job in fairness. The only thing you have been lacking probably is a clear idea of what you're training for in the interim. I don't think you need to salvage good marathon training. The marathon result spoke for itself. The salvaging is actually done through the recovery process but you know that already. Pretty much all of your conclusions hit the nail on the head. You know what you're at and where you're going.
Thanks for that - I wasn't going to share it on here, but I felt that this is exactly why I was thinking of hanging up my Boards Boots, so to speak - the lack of these sort of posts - warts and all.
We'll see where Hudson brings me - I'm VERY motivated by it, its a difficult plan with a lot of mileage and hard running a number of times a week.
I was listening to Scullion today and his latest podcast really resonated with me....... he didn't say it this simply, but its kind of like 'if you do the same thing over and over again, you'll only get the same results' - so the thought of following it really excites me and motivates me!
Here's to more sharing 0 -
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AuldManKing wrote: »Thanks for that - I wasn't going to share it on here, but I felt that this is exactly why I was thinking of hanging up my Boards Boots, so to speak - the lack of these sort of posts - warts and all.
We'll see where Hudson brings me - I'm VERY motivated by it, its a difficult plan with a lot of mileage and hard running a number of times a week.
I was listening to Scullion today and his latest podcast really resonated with me....... he didn't say it this simply, but its kind of like 'if you do the same thing over and over again, you'll only get the same results' - so the thought of following it really excites me and motivates me!
Here's to more sharing
Yep you are right...not enough of that type of post. I'm going to get working on mine tomorrow! Scullion's comment reminds me of something I heard while I was training for another sport...Practice makes permanent, not perfect. It's a similar sentiment.0 -
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