The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

Murph_D

Nice work. Tell us a bit about the LH plan. What's different about it from previous approaches you've taken? Anything particularly 'Hanson' et al about it?

AuldManKing

Murph_D wrote: »

Nice work. Tell us a bit about the LH plan. What's different about it from previous approaches you've taken? Anything particularly 'Hanson' et al about it?

Well - I don't think I've trained specifically for a 5k before.

And while this is a 5k plan - its probably broad enough to cover 10k as the tempos/progressions are over 5k.

Its quite basic in construction. But no runs shorter than 8miles.

Monday: 8m easy
Tuesday: 5k paced session (8-11m total)
Wed: 10m easy
Thur: OFF
Fri: alternate between Tempo / Progression
Sat: alternate between 8m/10m easy
Sun: Alternate between 15m / 12m easy with strides.

I'll possibly pimp the Tuesday sessions a bit later on (add some hill sprints etc) as being a marathoner at heart, its difficult to 'only' do a session that's less than 5k in length!!
But then again, maybe the pace and cumulative fatigue will just make me see the sessions out.

Murph_D

AuldManKing wrote: »

Well - I don't think I've trained specifically for a 5k before.

And while this is a 5k plan - its probably broad enough to cover 10k as the tempos/progressions are over 5k.

Its quite basic in construction. But no runs shorter than 8miles.

Monday: 8m easy
Tuesday: 5k paced session (8-11m total)
Wed: 10m easy
Thur: OFF
Fri: alternate between Tempo / Progression
Sat: alternate between 8m/10m easy
Sun: Alternate between 15m / 12m easy with strides.

I'll possibly pimp the Tuesday sessions a bit later on (add some hill sprints etc) as being a marathoner at heart, its difficult to 'only' do a session that's less than 5k in length!!
But then again, maybe the pace and cumulative fatigue will just make me see the sessions out.

Sounds interesting. I’d be favoring the latter option personally, at least til you know how effective the ‘unpimped’ version is. What does ‘tempo’ mean in this plan, in pace/effort terms?

AuldManKing

Murph_D wrote: »

What does ‘tempo’ mean in this plan, in pace/effort terms?

Tempo is 10M-HM pace in this plan.

AuldManKing

Monday: Easy 7.4m down to the PP and back.

Tuesday: Session: 6x800 off 400m

Done a 2m Warmup to the Furze Road and set off from there - plan was to do the 800's back and fwd on the Furze.

All reps were about 2.42-2.45 (a tad quicker than 5k pace) with the 400m recoveries being done in 2min - 2.10.
Amazing how doing a recovery at 8.15 pace feels after a quick 800 - they felt like 12 min miles.

9.3miles

Wed: 10miles on PP trails. 8.20 pace.

Thursday: Rest - bought myself a new pair of Adiddas Solar Boost and Brooks Asteria.

Friday Session - 2m WU - 6 mile progression - 2m CD

The progression was to get 5-10s faster per mile - starting at MP+30s.
it went like:
6.56
6.45
6.35
6.22
6.12
5.55

2m CD

Really enjoyed this one - I was chomping at the bit on the early miles and pushing it on the later miles. A great workout.

10m total.

Sat: 7.3m - picking up the car the long way round............... head not in a good place (self inflicted)

Sunday: Club run with a few of the gang who are running Dublin (& Sarah who's not).
Great run and chat - I was on my own for the last 15mins so picked it up a bit.

15m at 7.32 pace - felt great actually. (last 2 miles: 6.41 / 6.35)

59m for the week.


Been looking at my plan after Jinglebells. Its for a 10m race but its a HM type plan with a lot of longer stuff in it - its got me thinking of doing a Marathon in March on the back of it - March would still give me decent recovery before the spring/summer racing season kicks in.
Barcelona......... anyone??

Or maybe I'll just do Bohermeen as Barry has me on the HM PB's now.

OOnegative

AuldManKing wrote: »

Or maybe I'll just do Bohermeen as Barry has me on the HM PB's now.

That's it, i'm retiring the runners so!!!!!

FBOT01

AuldManKing wrote: »

Monday:
Or maybe I'll just do Bohermeen as Barry has me on the HM PB's now.

Has me too.....see you in Bohermeen:D

AuldManKing

Monday: 8m easy to the PP and back.

Tuesday: Session: 1mile / 1200 / 1000/ 800 / 400 all off 400m

The aim here was to start at 10k pace and work down to 5k or below.
Session went well - completed it on a good loop, so fair ups & downs.

Wore the Asterias for the 1st time - nice and comfy, very light, but my feet slap a bit - that might rectify itself as they break in a bit.

1 mile: 5.51 pace
1200: 5.40 pace
1000: 5.33 pace
800: 5:31 pace
400: 5.08 pace.

All the recoveries were at 400 easy run in ~2 mins (8.15 pace'ish)

really enjoyed this again. I must say, I'm feeling very strong following this plan.

7.5m total (kept the WU/CD shorter than planned due to visitors coming.

Wednesday: Lap of the PP - getting dark as I was finishing up, with the time change next week, I must keep the headlamp in the bag.

10m at 8.14pace - bit of a lumpy run too.

Thursday: rest day.

MisterDrak

Alan,
Would you not "Make up a Marathon Report" as I need something good to read this morning, as work is taking a back seat

AuldManKing

MisterDrak wrote: »

Alan,
Would you not "Make up a Marathon Report" as I need something good to read this morning, as work is taking a back seat

:pac::pac::pac:
Made me spit out my tea!!

AuldManKing

Catching up here.

Friday 25th: Session: 3mWU / 4mT / 3mCD
Ran down to the Acres and done the 4m Tempo around the path there - I know 1 lap is 1.6m so knew it would be a struggle mentally at the end (finish 2 laps and still have 800m to go.)
It was a cold wet day and I was well wrapped - too well wrapped as it turned out.

Anyway - I set off and found a nice rythm rthymn rytmhn stride and went with it - checked the watch a couple of times and found myself running 6.00 rather than 6.10.
1st mile felt ok, so stuck with it - didn't check the watch until I passed the start again after 1.6m (still running 6.00). Tiredness was setting in on the 3rd mile and as I approached the start (3.2m) I paused for about 10 seconds as the effort was hard.
I gave myself a good bollocking over that and went back at it finishing strong.

4m in 24.03 (6.01 /6.03/6.00/5.59)

10m total.

Saturday: 10m in great sunshine around the park 7.57 pace - felt strong despite the tempo the previous day.

Sunday: After a heavy night on the beer (again) I settled in to watch the Marathon on YouTube as I was too lazy to go down the short distance to cheer on my running buddies. Would of been too noisy anyway, all that cheering and clapping. :P

Went out afterwards along the Royal Canal and back up NCR into the park.
All evidence of 17,500 runners completely gone.

Some strides at the end.
13.1m at 7.40

60 miles for the week over 6 days.

Monday: As I was out again on Sunday night - I felt I needed a proper recovery run.
Settled for 5m very easy rather than 8 on the plan.

Tuesday: Session: 4x1200

Was kinda dreading this one (out of all the sessions on this plan). The wind was blowing a mini gale so had thought about reducing the pace to 5k effort - but what is 5k effort anyway??
3m WU that included an AMK Special shoe change as I wasn't feeling the Asterias today and had the Zoom Flys in the car. Glad I changed them.

3m WU and done the 1st 1200 from CK Gate to Ashtown Gate - wind in my face. 2nd one was also with a bit of a head wind. 3rd was up chesterfield (neutral. ) and the last one was on the Furze,with a tailwind.
4.15 / 4.10 / 4.11 / 4.08

Recoveries was 400m in about 2.05'ish (8.15 pace)

10m total.

Wednesday 30th: 10m Down to the Zoo and back via the North Road.
about 8 min/miles.


Thursday is a rest day - so finishing Oct with 250 miles. Highest mileage month since March - but some great structure to it and including 4 rest days.

Still not decided on the Marathon - Probably cant do Barca due to family committment, and I dont want to do a Marathon in April as I want to be recovered by April, ready for the spring/summer races.

So its either Seville in Feb or train for Bohermeen in March.

OOnegative

I reckon Seville is the one, TbL is making the trip he said also(supporting not running). Could be messy.......

Nothing at all got to do with me wanting to hold the upper hand PB wise over the half for a while longer!!

pconn062

Focus on the 1/2 would be my opinion. You have a nice few races there to do, Trim 10 mile, Bohermeen 1/2, dunboyne 10k. Set big PB's in those then focus on the marathon would be my 2c. Aim big: 59 10 mile, 35 10k, sub 1.20 half then sub 2.50 marathon. Good big or go home:)

AuldManKing

pconn062 wrote: »

Focus on the 1/2 would be my opinion. You have a nice few races there to do, Trim 10 mile, Bohermeen 1/2, dunboyne 10k. Set big PB's in those then focus on the marathon would be my 2c. Aim big: 59 10 mile, 35 10k, sub 1.20 half then sub 2.50 marathon. Good big or go home:)

That was always the original plan P. - but I dont really want to be burned out/peaking too early in the year.
I want my better races to be May/June.

My thinking was that as the training for the HM is similar to the full, why not just do a full marathon instead (low key/no pressure) and use it to try out a few different things. An experimental experience?

As it is in late Feb - I should be recovered to tackle PB's in spring/summer before embarking on the more serious venture in Berlin 2020.

I do love proper Marathon training in the winter months as opposed to the faster stuff.

Still time to decide - my current plan is good enough to Jingle Bells and the addition of a couple of xtra miles on the long run will help if I decide to do a marathon.

A 10m in Feb is still firmly on the table - either way.

Swashbuckler

On that note, my plan for next year is to train January to May for HM. Then in May assess how the body is and start training for the marathon. Do I run the risk of either peaking too early or burning out a little from a full year of "longer stuff"?

My original thinking was a long, slow HM buildup would leave me in decent shape for the tempos needed for marathon training.

Edit : sorry for selfishly hijacking your log with my own self serving questions. Just interested to hear your opinion given your vast marathon experience!

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

On that note, my plan for next year is to train January to May for HM. Then in May assess how the body is and start training for the marathon. Do I run the risk of either peaking too early or burning out a little from a full year of "longer stuff"?

My original thinking was a long, slow HM buildup would leave me in decent shape for the tempos needed for marathon training.

Edit : sorry for selfishly hijacking your log with my own self serving questions. Just interested to hear your opinion given your vast marathon experience!

No worries on the Hijack!

If you are planning a Marathon in Sept/Oct - I think 16 weeks is long enough, unless you want to put in a substantial amount of base training.

Training for a HM is 'similar' to a Marathon - so you'd be getting the same stimulus for a long period of time - I reckon there's a large risk of staleness with that approach.

If you look at 'most' marathon plans - the 1st few weeks are not Marathon specific and could even count as 10k type training - its the last 10 weeks or so that they become more Marathon Specific.

I'm not going to suggest an alternative approach for you, but its a big risk of burning out/staleness to focus from Jan to Oct on 'longer stuff'.

FWIW I don't think you'll have any issues handling the Marathon type tempos, its not like you're a novice runner.

Swashbuckler

Cheers A. I know on the surface it may look like I'll have no hassle but the reality is I've had a broken year with niggles and injuries. I essentially haven't run any sort of meaningful session or tempo since July. The rest of this year will be building back the easy miles.

So I don't think I'll be in super shape going into next year. I figure a slow patient buildup to HM in May would be smart. Would you reckon not diving straight into a long marathon plan and maybe spending a month or two on some shorter stuff and kick into a marathon plan (all going well injury wise) in July?
Just an opinion, dont worry I won't blame you if it goes all pearshaped. Haha

OOnegative

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Cheers A. I know on the surface it may look like I'll have no hassle but the reality is I've had a broken year with niggles and injuries. I essentially haven't run any sort of meaningful session or tempo since July. The rest of this year will be building back the easy miles.

So I don't think I'll be in super shape going into next year. I figure a slow patient buildup to HM in May would be smart. Would you reckon not diving straight into a long marathon plan and maybe spending a month or two on some shorter stuff and kick into a marathon plan (all going well injury wise) in July?
Just an opinion, dont worry I won't blame you if it goes all pearshaped. Haha

Yeah and get the log going again so we can see how you are doing to.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

Yeah and get the log going again so we can see how you are doing to.

I hear ya B. Its one of those things that once you let it go its almost too much work to catch up again but yeah I need to get logging again.

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Would you reckon not diving straight into a long marathon plan and maybe spending a month or two on some shorter stuff and kick into a marathon plan (all going well injury wise) in July?
Just an opinion, dont worry I won't blame you if it goes all pearshaped. Haha

I'd think you'd get great benefit from a good HM plan - then into a 5k/10k plan (I'll email you the one I'm using(if you want) it fits nicely to move onto the Longer stuff - its 8 weeks )

Then go into a Mara plan in July - Sure you'll run around Dublin in 2.45 :P

Swashbuckler

I think I need to borrow some of your optimism, and your engine.

Would you mind sending it on? Thanks a mill. I know I'm planning way ahead here but given I've spent three months feeling sh**e ill indulge myself.

AuldManKing

AuldManKing wrote: »

Plan going fwd:


December to early Feb:
The LH plan I bought is a 5k/10k plan, good 5k type sessions with a tempo building to 5miles. This will leave me in good shape for an 8 week window (Naz Elite Plan ) to tackle a 10 miler in late Jan/early feb (Trim or Dungarvan)

Feb-June: Be a race wh0re

June: Decision on starting Berlin training.

So that's my year mapped out.

Like all good plans, this will probably fall by the wayside and I'll end up running Manchester Marathon in April or something............

AuldManKing wrote: »

Been looking at my plan after Jinglebells. Its for a 10m race but its a HM type plan with a lot of longer stuff in it - its got me thinking of doing a Marathon in March on the back of it - March would still give me decent recovery before the spring/summer racing season kicks in.
Barcelona......... anyone??

Or maybe I'll just do Bohermeen as Barry has me on the HM PB's now.

AuldManKing wrote: »

Catching up here.


Still not decided on the Marathon - Probably cant do Barca due to family committment, and I dont want to do a Marathon in April as I want to be recovered by April, ready for the spring/summer races.

So its either Seville in Feb or train for Bohermeen in March.

AuldManKing wrote: »

That was always the original plan P. - but I dont really want to be burned out/peaking too early in the year.
I want my better races to be May/June.

My thinking was that as the training for the HM is similar to the full, why not just do a full marathon instead (low key/no pressure) and use it to try out a few different things. An experimental experience?

As it is in late Feb - I should be recovered to tackle PB's in spring/summer before embarking on the more serious venture in Berlin 2020.

I do love proper Marathon training in the winter months as opposed to the faster stuff.

Still time to decide - my current plan is good enough to Jingle Bells and the addition of a couple of xtra miles on the long run will help if I decide to do a marathon.

A 10m in Feb is still firmly on the table - either way.

Guess who's very strongly considering a Marathon in Manchester in April

Swashbuckler

AuldManKing wrote:

Guess who's very strongly considering a Marathon in Manchester in April

Do what you love! No point squeezing a square marathon peg into a round 5k hole

Swashbuckler

No negativity intended there by the way. Not suggesting youre a poor 5k runner or anything like that but you clearly love the marathon training.

AuldManKing

Friday 1st November: Session - 1m WU/7 mile progression from MP+20s/ 2m CD

Horrible evening for this in the PP - lashing out of the heavens.
Done the 1m warm up and started off at 6.50 pace for the 1st mile of the 7m progression.

Getting the 1st mile is key as if you go too fast, it makes the workout harder. Mile 1: 6.45

Worked down the next few miles - its a struggle as the pace feels easy early on and you want to let rip, but then about 4 miles in, you start to feel the fatigue building and the efforts get faster & harder.
Certainly wasn't hanging on for the last mile, but was working quite hard.

Splits were:
6.45 / 6.41 / 6.31 / 6.25 / 6.21 / 6.17 / 6.09

With WU/CD came to 10 very wet miles. - averaging 6.55/mile for the 10m and I loved every minute of it.

Had to use the headlamp for last 20-25 mins - this added to the epicness of the conditions

Saturday: Ran down to the Park and back 8m @8.04 pace - legs felt remarkably good.

Sunday: Long Run - Turned up at 8.45 and met a few folks down in the park - by the 2nd mile there was just 2 of us, so we upped the pace to our usual pace and set off. (or maybe it was because we upped the pace that there was just 2 of us?)

Nice run - took some of it out of the Park. Was on my own for the last 2 miles so done a pick up around the Furze/OS.

15.5 miles total (13@7.45 + 2@6.40'ish) - just under 2 hours.

healy1835

AuldManKing wrote: »

Guess who's very strongly considering a Marathon in Manchester in April

Any decisions here A?? Wouldn't mind a partner over there

AuldManKing

Last time I had a partner at a marathon, he brought me to a chemist to buy vaseline, brought me to dinner the night before the marathon and then f€cked off halfway through the marathon.

Not even a goodbye.

Never seen him since............

AuldManKing

Monday: With the headlamp, down to the PP and back. Soaked to the skin.

8m@8.20 pace.

Tuesday: Session: 1m@5k/ 4x400 at 3k / 1m@5k - all off 400m

A simple enough session on paper but it near killed me.

Ran the 3m to the Conygham Road as a warm up - I knew that this road was well lit and not too many pedestrians - I also knew that the gap inbetween the access for the Khyber and the access for the Hospital is just over 1m.

1st mile in 5.34 - nearly bang on - a bit windy in places and found it difficult with the headlamp and underfoot footing on the leaves.
400m recovery.

4x400 with 400 jog back: 77/77/77/75 - didn't purposely run the last one hard, I just found that as the session went on , I found it 'easier' to move fast.

2nd mile in 5.24 - The beauty of doing the 400's just before this mile is that it makes 5.3x pace seem easy - at least for the 1st 800m.
I was screaming on the last 600 and nearly stopped at 200 to go.
Delighted with the time - but the effort was far higher than 5k.

3m back to the car.

10 in total.

Knackered afterwards.

Wednesday: Up and out early, I was expecting the legs to be in bits, but they felt surprisingly good.
Down to the Park and a lap of the Furze/OS and the Glen and then home.

9.4m total (7.56 pace)

Thursday: Rest day.

overpronator

Great training going on here Alan.

KSU

AuldManKing wrote: »

Tuesday: Session: 1m@5k/ 4x400 at 3k / 1m@5k - all off 400m

A simple enough session on paper but it near killed me.

Looks like a killer on paper to me. I think at times the marathon mentality can blinker when volume isn't super high or recovery isn't super short.