The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

AuldManKing

* meant to add for Meno & Raycuns benefit - the heavy breather Clonliffe guy who I pipped at the post in Dungarvan finsihed in 3:07.

statss

great report buddy, you got soooo close to a flawless race. It seems something minor unexpected happens to almost everyone on these parts doing a marathon, I think you reacted well to get yourself over the line. You obviously didn't have a screen showing the distance on your watch no? On a practical level, maybe right down (if you can remember) every thing you ate in the 2/3 before hand and maybe tweak it slightly for DCM so you don't feel as bloated?

yaboya1

statss wrote: »

great report buddy, you got soooo close to a flawless race. It seems something minor unexpected happens to almost everyone on these parts doing a marathon, I think you reacted well to get yourself over the line. You obviously didn't have a screen showing the distance on your watch no? On a practical level, maybe right down (if you can remember) every thing you ate in the 2/3 before hand and maybe tweak it slightly for DCM so you don't feel as bloated?

I think that's why we love it. Such a difficult beast to conquer. When you do, it will be all the sweeter!

TRR

I hope you told that pacer to go f**k himself! Cheeky bastard!

AuldManKing

dublin runner wrote: »

Brilliant report. The race will stand to you, no doubt. Any thoughts on why you cramped? Interested to hear your feeling given you had a few days to process.

Great question.

I'd love to know myself. 'Kerry' wants me to search all 'sports science journals' to get a definitive answer. Might just do that some day.

I have a couple of thoughts.

(1) Runners: I wore skechers due to an issue I had with the bunion/instep earlier in the training. They have no support and I'm an pronator.
I can notice my feet leaning in on themselves when I wear them and my sports therapist friend reckon they are what caused the glute issue previously. This could be 1 factor.

(2) It was a very warm day out and I wasn't used to it. Did I drink enough water on the course? Not as much as Kerry, but I sipped at most stations.

(3) I brought salt tabs to take at mile 13 & 18.But didn't take them.

(4) Body not used to the pace? - not enough tempos or races to get the body used to the stress?

Maybe a combination of the above.

AuldManKing

statss wrote: »

great report buddy, you got soooo close to a flawless race. It seems something minor unexpected happens to almost everyone on these parts doing a marathon, I think you reacted well to get yourself over the line. You obviously didn't have a screen showing the distance on your watch no? On a practical level, maybe right down (if you can remember) every thing you ate in the 2/3 before hand and maybe tweak it slightly for DCM so you don't feel as bloated?

I meant to include this in my report Statss.

Remember we done a long run together for DCM and we spoke about having to have a 'glorious fail' before you went sub 3
Seems to happen to the best of them.

This came into my head as I was cramping :eek:

belcarra

Great race and report Al!

Note: Please don't take offence to this paragraph!
One thing that stands out to me and no doubt yourself is your lack of awareness as to how close you were to the finish when the cramps hit. Could you not have asked the pacer or trusted the distance on the garmin a bit more? You seem to have been unaware of where you were for most of the race and especially just how close to the line you were. Personally I'm nearly always counting the metres between the km/mile markers on course, especially in the second half of a race. Maybe you might have made it through the pain if that was the case??

What's more important is that this was a phenomenal PB improvement and perhaps the day simply came a week too soon for you? Such are the margins on the day that you could almost as easily have been those few seconds under as over. Getting those cramps with just 800m to go may have been allayed with an extra weeks training and the LSR you would have done. Hindsight is great, eh?!:rolleyes:
I'd be extremely confident you will continue to see a huge leap in performance and that the next race should be focused on sub 2:50 rather than worrying about sub 3.

Well done again on both the training and the race!

RedRunner

I think I just caught some of the air conditioning in my eye there...ahem

Great report A. Shades of Blocky there last year when struck with some bad luck late on in the race. And we all know what happened in the next attempt:)

Never ceases to amaze me how you manage to soak up all that information during a race and be able to recant it here. I would have thought a lot of it would be a blur. Huge effort there and looking forward to seeing how the rest of your year pans out for you. Great things ahead!

RayCun

Forget the sub-3 thread, we need a very ****ing close to sub-3 thread, it would be some roll call

I might start it myself in a few weeks

I might not even qualify for very ****ing close

belcarra

AuldManKing wrote: »

Great question.

I'd love to know myself. 'Kerry' wants me to search all 'sports science journals' to get a definitive answer. Might just do that some day.

I have a couple of thoughts.

(1) Runners: I wore skechers due to an issue I had with the bunion/instep earlier in the training. They have no support and I'm an pronator.
I can notice my feet leaning in on themselves when I wear them and my sports therapist friend reckon they are what caused the glute issue previously. This could be 1 factor.

(2) It was a very warm day out and I wasn't used to it. Did I drink enough water on the course? Not as much as Kerry, but I sipped at most stations.

(3) I brought salt tabs to take at mile 13 & 18.But didn't take them.

(4) Body not used to the pace? - not enough tempos or races to get the body used to the stress?

Maybe a combination of the above.

I'd be thinking a combination of 2 & 3.
You could have drank too much liquid but not with enough electrolytes and therefore diluted the limited electrolytes remaining in your system.

AuldManKing

belcarra wrote: »

Great race and report Al!

Note: Please don't take offence to this paragraph!
One thing that stands out to me and no doubt yourself is your lack of awareness as to how close you were to the finish when the cramps hit. Could you not have asked the pacer or trusted the distance on the garmin a bit more? You seem to have been unaware of where you were for most of the race and especially just how close to the line you were. Personally I'm nearly always counting the metres between the km/mile markers on course, especially in the second half of a race. Maybe you might have made it through the pain if that was the case??

What's more important is that this was a phenomenal PB improvement and perhaps the day simply came a week too soon for you? Such are the margins on the day that you could almost as easily have been those few seconds under as over. Getting those cramps with just 800m to go may have been allayed with an extra weeks training and the LSR you would have done. Hindsight is great, eh?!:rolleyes:
I'd be extremely confident you will continue to see a huge leap in performance and that the next race should be focused on sub 2:50 rather than worrying about sub 3.

Well done again on both the training and the race!

No offence and you are right.
Signage on the course was poor but its my responsibility to know where I was.
It didn't bother me much previous to mile 22 as I was ahead of the 3hr pacer.

I didn't even think of changing the watch to see the distance as I was in the midst of cramping and all the melancholy that goes with that

Part of me actually thinks that maybe 16 weeks is too long of a cycle and maybe a shorter training cycle would have been better. Maybe I'd have been sharper?

Gavlor

Great report Alan. Plenty of time to analyse where you feel you could improve the training for your next attempt.

Out of curiosity, do you take carb drinks normally? I don't recall you mentioning it before. Secondly I plan on taking a gel beforehand and every 5 miles thereafter. Do you think that might have helped you over the line?

Finally, what one thing would you change about your race week/race day preparation if you had the chance?*


*this question is for purely selfish purposes!!

RayCun

what kind of gel were you taking? They may have electrolytes in them already.

Maybe 2.59 is too narrow a margin to aim for? but you'll be aiming for something much faster next time...

dublin runner

belcarra wrote: »

I'd be thinking a combination of 2 & 3.
You could have drank too much liquid but not with enough electrolytes and therefore diluted the limited electrolytes remaining in your system.

Excellent post. This is something I am very conscious of this week having previous just drunk water. With nerves I tend to drink too much water.

I think you will learn a lot more from this race having come so close. If you dipped under the 3 hour mark I think it would have been the time you deserved but in the long run (excuse the pun) this may be the race you learn most from and the race that'll stand to you in years to come, making you a far better runner and athlete.

AuldManKing

Gavlor wrote: »

Great report Alan. Plenty of time to analyse where you feel you could improve the training for your next attempt.

Out of curiosity, do you take carb drinks normally? I don't recall you mentioning it before. Secondly I plan on taking a gel beforehand and every 5 miles thereafter. Do you think that might have helped you over the line?

Finally, what one thing would you change about your race week/race day preparation if you had the chance?*


*this question is for purely selfish purposes!!

Carb drinks: No (I know.....I know)

Gels: took 3.5 gels in the race and some jellies - didn't mention them all.

Changes: (1) Not as many carbs - felt very bloated the night before and race morning. (2) I'd love to know if compression gear helps with cramp?? (3) more course awareness.

Tom Joad

Great report as usual Alan - I really enjoyed reading it - pity it didn't end in a sub 3 but it's there for you the next day.

AuldManKing

RayCun wrote: »

what kind of gel were you taking? They may have electrolytes in them already.

.

dublin runner wrote: »

Excellent post. This is something I am very conscious of this week having previous just drunk water. With nerves I tend to drink too much water.

regarding electrolytes - I was very conscious of taking plenty of Zero tabs/diorolyte in the days leading up to the race.
The carb drinks also had electrolytes.
The gels I took had electrolytes.

I really don't think I could have taken any more electrolytes and I don't think they were diluted in my system. I didnt have enough water if anything.

ecoli

Great Report A

With regards pressure I wouldn't take a blind bit of heed of people (don't mean that in a bad way guys you know I love ya's ) At the end of the day the only person you have to answer to is yourself and you did a hell of a job in that regard.

I wouldn't over analyze it too much at the moment I think you deserve to rest of your laurels somewhat. When it comes to the next marathon cycle is when you can figure out what worked and what needs changing. Runners are bad enough about obsessing about running when we are training that we sometimes forget that the recovery and down time is just that and need to put it all out of your mind if even only for a week.

Relax and enjoy the break the what if's will still be there when you get back on your feet

likestosmile

AMK what can I (Kerry) say about this race report. Absolutely spot on with every little detail. I just relived our experience all over again reading that report! Fantastic journalism. I'd forgotten about the Dad and his kids at the half way point, must admit i too didn't want to look in your direction as I was afraid you'd see the weakness in my left eye watching this scene :-)

I guarantee you this AMK, on any other day you would have crossed that line under 2.59. And how I'm so sure of this is; for the entire race but in particular from mile 17 to 22 you were unbelievably strong. After i fell you were my pacer for those miles as my eyes burned into the back of your blue singlet. Your stride, your pace, your form, all perfect! The view of you "jolt" like someone hit you with an electric shock at mile 25-26 smacked me like a tonne of bricks into the face, if i could have tied a rope onto you and dragged you by the legs on the flat on your back across the line with me in 02:59:14 with me i would have. :-) You deserved that and more for the flawless race up to that point.

Your official time 300.36 is a J-AM-AZ-ING personal best. If someone had offered you that time in the mist of your dark, injured days prior to Dublin '13 you'd have snapped their hand off. But like I said, ive no doubt in my mind not only will you go under sub 3 in Dublin 2014 but 02:57:50 better watch its back.

Thanks for the memories and the support before, during and afterwards. AMK a true gentleman!

career_move

Well done Alan. Your training was flawless and you ran a great race up till the sniper got you. It's hard to be aware when your running a marathon of exactly what distance you've done. My brain just goes into meltdown anyway. I think that was poor form on behalf of the organisers.

I'm not a big believer in this carb loading and drinking loads to make sure your fully hydrated crack before a marathon. I monitor exactly what I'm eating during taper on myfitnesspal to avoid that bloated feeling you had and only drink to thirst. It works better for me anyway

I know the sub 3 was the main thing for you but I wouldn't beat yourself up over 37 secs. At the end of the day even if you'd run 2:5x you'd still be looking to go faster the next time and we all think you're a legend anyway

BeepBeep67

RayCun wrote: »

Maybe 2.59 is too narrow a margin to aim for? but you'll be aiming for something much faster next time...

This, there should be a sub 2:58 thread.

Well done again Alan, there's no doubt the ability is there, relax, recover and rinse and repeat.

aero2k

Hi Alan,

Great running! I wouldn't over-analyse the cramping too much, or beat yourself up about not knowing the exact distance you had left - it probably wouldn't have made any difference. When Git101 and me ran Edinburgh 2010 we missed the drama ahead of us: the race leader came to a complete stop around 26 miles and his lead of approx. 1 minute was wiped out. He eventually hobbled to second place. No matter how good you are, or how well prepared, things can go wrong. Sounds like you wrung every last second out of it on the day. Onwards and upwards from here.:D

RayCun

I searched the blog earlier - not a mention of cramping in races, so not something you have a history of, or should have taken extra precautions for
And I wouldn't beat myself up about not knowing the course or figuring out how far was left to go, nobody is thinking straight at that stage of a race

statss

RayCun wrote: »

I searched the blog earlier - not a mention of cramping in races, so not something you have a history of, or should have taken extra precautions for
And I wouldn't beat myself up about not knowing the course or figuring out how far was left to go, nobody is thinking straight at that stage of a race

thats a good point. if this had happened at the same point on the DCM route on Nassau St no do doubt you would have made it under 3.00 Alan

dazza21ie

Great report and race AMK, well done on a huge PB and a GFA and BQ time to boot. Plenty more to come from you yet.

Maybe a change in attire next time just to be sure....


:D

FBOT01

Great run and excellent report. Gutted for you when saw your final time but I wouldn't let a 10 minute window in a 16 week cycle take away from a great training block, a super race and a massive PB. Enjoy a well deserved week off.

blockic

Well done Alan. Enjoyed the report very much. The first sub 3 attempt seems to be a rite of passage around here! :rolleyes:

Next time... look forward to virtually training together in the coming months!

PaulieYifter

Nice report and well done again. Your head seems in a more logical place than mine was - I upped the training unnecessarily to chase 18 seconds and ran into injury. As BeepBeep says "rinse and repeat" and you'll knock another chunk off the next time.

Runchick

Brilliant report AMK , love the detail, makes me want to go run Manchester, although that part around 20 miles with no support seems a bit of a head wrecker. Congrats again on a super race, you have a great attitude. As has been said just missing out on sub 3 first time round seems to be the thing around these parts, next time will be all the sweeter

Krusty_Clown

As a former 3:00:xx guy myself, I reckon you're better off. This forum is a runner's graveyard for those who managed to knock out 2:59 and never found the hunger to keep pushing on. That handful of seconds will keep the momentum going and then next upset will be the 20 seconds that held you back from breaking 2:55.