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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Hi AMK, sounds like a tough session alright. Don't suppose you've a link to the article or what's the logic behind a 'blind' session? They're my least favourite type of sessions, I like to know how many and what pace beforehand so I can pace myself and always leave a bit in reserve/dig deepest on the last two so these are the fastest of the set/s.


    No, sorry - its an electronic copy of this months (Jan/Feb) running times.
    You might find it on their site next month.

    Its an article by Steve Magness on how to train for the 'stress of a race stituation' and he provides 4 pointers on how we might "mimic race ambiguity";

    (1) Coaches dont tell their athletes what the next rep is until the last one is complete. (adapts athlete to a 'do my best now' mentality)

    (2) Create uncertainty in a group by surging at any time for any duration - the group follows.

    (3) When training alone - delay when you look at your watch - try to maintain pace as close as possible without looking at watch.

    (4) Schedule 'uncetainty days': In a group - each person decides the next interval / training alone - its random - toss a coin/roll a dice. Enables you to 'give your best in the moment'.

    Hope this helps!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Thanks for that, figured it might be along those lines. Makes good training sense, it just upsets my borderline OCD need for order and predictability :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭Netwerk Errer


    No, sorry - its an electronic copy of this months (Jan/Feb) running times.
    You might find it on their site next month.

    Its an article by Steve Magness on how to train for the 'stress of a race stituation' and he provides 4 pointers on how we might "mimic race ambiguity";

    (1) Coaches dont tell their athletes what the next rep is until the last one is complete. (adapts athlete to a 'do my best now' mentality)

    (2) Create uncertainty in a group by surging at any time for any duration - the group follows.

    (3) When training alone - delay when you look at your watch - try to maintain pace as close as possible without looking at watch.

    (4) Schedule 'uncetainty days': In a group - each person decides the next interval / training alone - its random - toss a coin/roll a dice. Enables you to 'give your best in the moment'.

    Hope this helps!

    Done something similar on the **cough** Bike**cough**. Went out with a group of similar ability, Anyone can lift the pace at any point for as long as they want. Really tough type of workout. You never know how hard, how long or how often the pace is going to be lifted. Really keeps you on your toes and gets the adrenaline pumping. You could hit breaking point in the middle of the workout.

    They are great workouts to prepare yourself to make and cover surges on raceday too.

    Cracking session lad!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thurs: No running

    Friday: 6.3m @ 8:50 pace - 4 with the madra - 8x0.5m loops - then a 2 mile loop on my own. very windy.

    Sat: hill session
    We normally do shorter hills, but today we had a different type of session on the footpaths in the Furry Glen.
    Mixture of speedwork and hillwork - up one then the other, turn, then do it again - total of 9 hills.

    When he told us to do it, we were looking at him saying that it'll be too easy, he was asking for 8 hills - we were saying at the start that we'd do 12 or 14 :) .
    With the addition of the speedwork, we managed 9 - legs were jelly at the top of the 9th.
    I reckon they were 400-500m each hill??

    Really good session - liked this.

    total - 7.9 miles

    Sunday: 10.7m @ 7:47
    Started off slowly as usual and then 4 of us done a 3k pickup to tempo pace - then rejoined the group as we increased to steady pace on the trails. It felt like a fast steady effort, but was 7:20-7:40 due to the state of the trails.
    Must wear the trail shoes next week :)

    43 miles for the week - a good weeks training methinks.

    I need to start increasing the long run to 14m. Am away for part of this week in Germany with no chance of running (& no gym in hotel) - but will still try to keep to 40 miles and increase from the following week (depending on Raheny 5).


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Micilin Muc


    Trail shoes and hills?! I have been away for a while ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Trail shoes and hills?! I have been away for a while ;)

    :)
    I can remember that conversation!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday: Bonus Session today #skivingoffwork

    2x(1600@T / 1200@10k / 800@5k)

    2m warm up.

    1600 (6:09)
    1200 (4:28)
    800 (2:47)
    1600 (6:02)
    1200 (4:26)
    800 (2:58)

    All off 2mins recovery.

    Last 800 as very tough, probably should've given myself some more time between the 2 sets.

    Nice little session to start the week - 2 days off now and then back at it on Thursday.

    total miles: 8:17


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday PM - Wed PM: In Germany - Drink/Breakfast/work/drink/ Breakfast/work/ drink/ shaky flight home - squeeky bum time :)

    Thursday: I felt I had to get a 'quality' session in to make up for my lack of running for 2 whole days :rolleyes:.

    I didn't want to push it too hard, given the Monday session and the travel etc, so set off on a steady/tempo run to see how the body felt. Tempo effort was the aim.
    After the 1st mile WU I started into it, giving myself a mile to get into it as I was into the wind then upping the pace a little.
    After the bit I wanted to stop, not feeling it at all, but talked myself into keep going when I seen that the pace was relatively decent for tempo effort and matched how I felt (~ 6:30-6:40).
    4th mile was good, felt a lot better. Jogged back to the car.

    8.2m @ 7.26 (4steady/Tempo: 7:06/6:35/6:24/6:23)

    Friday: managed to get out for 6m very easy - (8:35 pace)

    Saturday: The difference a few days makes!

    From a great session on Monday, where I felt strong to a disaster on Saturday.

    Plan was 3x1500@3k pace (5:35) + 1x500@ 1m pace (5:05)

    I thought that this was going to be fairly easy when I heard it.

    R1: 1500 - 5:08 (5:49 pace)
    R2: 1500 - 5:13 (5:54 pace) - could feel the lactate after 400m
    R3: 1500 - 5:26 (6:10 pace) - nearly stopped after 500m
    R4: 500 - 2:05 (5:36 pace)

    the 1st 800m of the reps were into a headwind - after the 1st rep I felt wasted :eek:
    Nearly a 20second difference in the 3 reps - not very consistent.
    Probably got nothing from the 3rd rep. The 500m was also very poor.

    I need to be more clever with how I train in busy weeks.
    Trying to fit in 3 sessions and a work trip was mental.......lesson learned.

    I have to decide if I'm going to do Raheny 5m (family stuff allowing) - mentally I'm saying 'no' - a bad run could knock me back.

    Maybe a better plan is to aim for Rathcoffey 2 weeks afterwards with 2 more smarter weeks training behind me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,625 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Work, travel and running is hard to manage alright. Throw booze into the mix and it becomes almost impossible.

    Might give Raheny a miss myself as I'm not race fit yet!


    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Sunday: Went into this run telling myself I was tired - as I was going around I was telling others I was tired - I was getting tired listening to myself.
    Thoughts of recovery weeks, some days off, shortening the mileage all were going round the head box. I considered cutting my "Long Run" short at 7 miles 'cos I was telling myself I was tired. (FFS - even considering 10m as a long run is farcical :) )

    Didn't cut the run short, increased the paced in the final 2 miles, took in some hills in the F. Glen and finished off with a 6:40 mile.

    Those last 15 mins of that run really reinvigorated the legs...........tired my b0ll0x..... think I need a boot in the hole.

    Moving on..................


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Monday: I love it when my American brethren have bank holidays.............

    couldn't make the club Gym session as I had to prioritise my daughters education over my running........pfftttt

    40 mins core workout - done some of the activities from the usual weekly routine, but added in some calf raises and 1 legged lunges.
    4.8m recovery run(8:40 pace)

    Tuesday Catching up in work on the stuff I didn't do yesterday that I should have done....but didn't. :)

    6.3 miles @ 8:30 pace - legs a bit meh following the lunges etc - nice run, no goals in mind other than to just run and catch up with Martin & Tom.


    Monday was like my 1st of Jan - 1st day with a good diet and no drink in about a month.
    While I haven't put on weight, there's just that feeling that your diet is going to hell, and what was typically a 1 week gluttony at Christmas is becoming normalised.
    Had a couple of pints on Sunday (ok, 4).............(ok.....and some wine).............(alright then, and a couple of whiskeys watching "Charlie") and didn't enjoy them........the feeling of 'more' is now replaced with the feeling of 'bleuugghhhh'


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    Monday: I love it when my American brethren have bank holidays.............

    I didn't get the holiday! Some stupid reason that some bank holidays are optional to give off!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Wednesday 21st Jan: Club Session - 6x800 + 4x200m (180m)

    Given how I had felt during Saturdays club session, I was fired up for a session tonight. Carefully planned nutrition and hydration and felt good heading out the door.
    Got to Santry only to find the track 'unrunable' due to ice.
    'Twas a bit strange as there were days it was 1degree and no ice on it, but tonight was about 4c and it was very very slippery.

    Our plan B is normally to run on the grass - Lengths and widths - but that was dug up, so I decided not to wait around and headed back to the PP to do a session on my ownsome along Chesterfield (via my house to pick up Hi-Vis 'cos I'm good like that)

    1.2m warm up (forgot to stretch and do strides.....:o )

    The 1st rep was difficult - as I finished I remembered why we do strides.
    I was constantly looking at my watch, having to turn the light on to get the distance.
    After the 2nd rep I discovered that the distance between 10 lamp posts on Chesterfield is 800m. So that became my marker.

    Aim: 2.45 (off 2min walk recovery) which should be 5:30 pace (3k pace)

    1. 2.47
    2. 2.40 (unsure of pace)
    3. 2.44
    4. 2.45
    5. 2.48 (miscounted lamp posts and slowed)
    6. 2.48 (B0llixed)

    4 min recovery and then into the 4x180's (based on 2 lampposts)

    (28 / 28 / 29 / 29) - off 1min R

    Gave these everything, but really focused on form - arm swing, run tall and fwd etc.

    1.2m Cool Down

    A good session, much more difficult on your own with no one to chase.

    6.63 miles


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    Nice session. You coming over to Raheny on Sunday for the first real tester of the year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    FBOT01 wrote: »
    Nice session. You coming over to Raheny on Sunday for the first real tester of the year?

    I had hoped to be able to make it but Unfortunately no, - I'll be in Cavan.

    I need to get my racing act together!! (nice podium in Poppintree btw)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭FBOT01


    I had hoped to be able to make it but Unfortunately no, - I'll be in Cavan.

    I need to get my racing act together!! (nice podium in Poppintree btw)

    Bummer on both fronts.......not been able to run Raheny and having to go to Cavan:)

    I will keep an eye on the results from Rathcoffey so to see how the club gym and speed sessions are bringing you along.

    Cheers 1st podium finish:pac: It is a reasonably fast course and will try it again on a better day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,711 ✭✭✭MisterDrak


    no, - I'll be in Cavan.

    Whimp :D:D:D:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,134 ✭✭✭Tom Joad


    I had hoped to be able to make it but Unfortunately no, - I'll be in Cavan.

    I need to get my racing act together!! (nice podium in Poppintree btw)

    Cough, Cough** Parkrun Cootehill. I'll stay at home so you can get on the podium :D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thursday: 6m Easy with the Madra - was only going to do 4, but bumped into a couple of people from the club and done a few miles with them around the pitches in Porterstown.

    Friday: 4.5 miles:
    Hadn't planned on running, but the dog needed a walk, so threw on the trail shoes again and back up to Porterstown. Theres a nice 2mile loop that keeps it interesting. Done 5x100m strides on the MSB muddy trail grass-track at the end to keep the legs fresh.

    Saturday: 11 miles "somewhat structured" Fartlek

    I had a GAA match for the U15's on Sat morning, so would miss the MSB session - no big deal as I didn't fancy either hills or long 3k paced intervals.
    My weakness is doing more & longer intervals at 5k or 10k pace - so used it as an opportunity to do something different.

    I was reading an article recently regarding throwing in some 200's or 400's at the end of a long interval session as it mimics the anaerobic state the legs go into towards the end of a race.
    While I had no real idea of the later reps I'd be doing, I knew I'd be doing a set of 200's at the end.

    Ran from the house to the OS road - doing a set of strides and some stretches towards the end.
    I knew my 1st 2 sets would be 2k and then 1 mile - after that it was going to be based on how I felt.

    Session went something like this:

    WU: 2.5miles inc 5 strides

    2k: 5:52 pace - Too fast - aim was 6m/m
    3 min R

    1m: 5:55 pace
    3 min R

    2kT: 6:17 pace (Knew I wouldn't hold faster pace so done T pace)
    2.5min R

    400m: 72 secs
    1 min R

    800m@5k: 2:51 (5:48 pace)
    2min R

    3x200 (1minR) 34/35/34

    CD 2.8miles

    Total: 11 miles

    Really felt like I'd been in a session following that. My Strava Suffer score told me it was 'Extreme' :confused:

    I'm also questioning my 10k endurance right now and wondering if I'm better sticking to a few 5k's initially??

    Immediate plans for the next 10 weeks:

    Goal Races:
    15 March: MSB 5k
    29 March: Dunboyne 4m
    11 April: K Club 10k (or GIR)

    Still thinking about Rathcoffey and some Park Runs between now and then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Sunday: No Running - In Cavan TJ Land for the day with the wifes relatives. Strange breed them folk :)
    Managed to escape being drowned in tea by holding onto an empty cup for a few hours.

    Monday: 10 miles @ 7.36 pace.
    Decided to do a decent run today rather than the gym session, given that I had no long run on Sunday.

    Decided to run some steady miles (7 min/miles) during the run - reminded me a lot of Marathon training and how much I enjoyed it!

    I listened to a podcast about bio mechanics on "Runner Academy" - mainly about running tall and easy. I was drawn to something the interviewee was saying about pushing off the foot - seems very obvious, but not something I do, I tend to draw from the front foot. Also the extent the arms play in your speed is something I've known but not really utilised as my arm strength towards the end of races is very weak.
    Something for me to play around with in coming session.

    I was in touch with the coach about my short term plans - told him about Rathcoffey 10k.
    Its amazing how 2 simple and obvious questions can shape your thinking.

    - Have you been training for a 10k? "er....No"
    - So why are you doing it? - "......silence....."

    So my plans now centre around getting 2 5k's (probably park runs) in before the MSB 5km in March.

    Today I put together a high level plan to get me through this year & onto a Marathon in April 2016, involving numerous races this year & base building etc from October. I reckon this should do me as a workable plan til I change my mind next week :pac:

    In other news - isn't it great to see Tergat back.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,606 ✭✭✭RedRunner


    Are you thinking London 2016? I feel the urge to go back there myself next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    RedRunner wrote: »
    Are you thinking London 2016? I feel the urge to go back there myself next year.

    Nah, those big races scare me :)
    Maybe Manchester again for unfinished business.

    Plenty of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,272 ✭✭✭Dubgal72


    Can you not just do a 10k race for strength/endurance? I get the coach's point that you're not targeting the 10k distance but why should you not race one when training for 5k? His questions and your responses made me laugh (out loud too) but after I scratched my head a bit....


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Can you not just do a 10k race for strength/endurance? I get the coach's point that you're not targeting the 10k distance but why should you not race one when training for 5k? His questions and your responses made me laugh (out loud too) but after I scratched my head a bit....

    yeah, but if AK had been able to answer the second question by saying, "well I've done a lot of shorter work and I think my pace over 3k has really improved, but I feel I'm losing out on endurance and I need to do more to make sure I don't fade over the last k" then his coach might have given Rathcoffey his blessing.

    If the reason for doing it is that some guys on the internet are doing it and it sounds like a nice race with a big feed afterwards... :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    Nah, those big races scare me :)
    Maybe Manchester again for unfinished business.

    Plenty of time.

    It seems there will be a few of us travelling to Boston in 2016. No interest in that?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭blockic


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    It seems there will be a few of us travelling to Boston in 2016. No interest in that?

    I might have to get another BQ just for the session!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Dubgal72 wrote: »
    Can you not just do a 10k race for strength/endurance? I get the coach's point that you're not targeting the 10k distance but why should you not race one when training for 5k? His questions and your responses made me laugh (out loud too) but after I scratched my head a bit....
    RayCun wrote: »
    yeah, but if AK had been able to answer the second question by saying, "well I've done a lot of shorter work and I think my pace over 3k has really improved, but I feel I'm losing out on endurance and I need to do more to make sure I don't fade over the last k" then his coach might have given Rathcoffey his blessing.

    Haha - good man Ray for making a man rethink his rethinking.

    In all seriousness, there was a lot more to the conversation than I threw in (I'm never one to let a comedic angle ruin a good story) and we agreed that the experience of the 'hurt' of a 5k a couple of times before my 5k goal race would stand me in better stead than an unprepared 10k.
    yaboya1 wrote: »
    It seems there will be a few of us travelling to Boston in 2016. No interest in that?

    Plenty of interest, believe me, but if I mentioned it, it would be the most expensive Marathon I've ever done as the family would come with a couple of empty suitcases.

    Tuesday: 5 miles @ 8:30 pace - recovery with the Madra.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Wednesday: Club Session: 2x(800/800/400) + 800 (all off 2min R)

    We were down at a cold, wet and windy Santry for this.
    On the warm up, we could feel the wind on the back straight and knew we were in for a tough night.
    Just as we finished the warm up/strides - the sleet/rain started......lovely.......

    I was aiming for 2:45 for the 800's and 74 for the 400's

    WU: 2.5m inc strides

    Set 1: 2.43 / 2:39 / 74 (2nd rep was stupid fast - wind tough on back straight)
    Set 2: 2:39 / 2:46 / 76 (Paid for fast 1st 800 in the 2nd rep - torture)

    Final 800: 2:44 (Hard work here)

    CD: 1.2m

    The recovery times for this session were pretty sharp at around 2-2.2 mins - we usually take 3-4 mins in between sets, but not this time.
    Wind was tough and the sleet and rain was tough initially but after 1-2 reps you got used to it.

    I wore the racers, as I do for every track session, but on my warm down I always (100%) get a cramp in my calf.
    Think I'll give them a miss for a couple of weeks and see if its them or something else??
    On that note - the racers were hopeless on the wet track anyway.

    Despite the weather, it was our best attended track session in a long time - about 15 people.

    (Note for log: Prepped well with hydration & nutrition all day - Recovery shake in the car on the way home, some more stretches and the legs feel good this morning - tired but good.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Thursday: No running -planned rest day thank God.

    Friday: 7 miles + 5 strides. - Nice ramble from the house to the PP and back - done some strides on the Furze - nothing taxing.

    Saturday: 7.2 miles total

    Decided to do a Parkrun - hoping to do St Annes, but got up too late and ended up in Hartstown.
    Hartstown is about 3 miles from my house and would be a nice session to run to it, do the Parkrun and run back - but today I had to drive or be late.

    Got there about 9:15 and decided to check out the route, done the 1st lap which is about 2 miles - was cutting it close and didn't get a chance to do the stretching and strides etc - rookie mistake.
    As I was jumping into the front, I seen 'Krusty Clown' finishing his warm up and any thoughts of a sneaky first finisher quickly vanished :).

    We were set off and after a couple of hundred meters, KC took off - I kept a good pace for the 1st mile and after that I knew 2nd was in the bag and I relaxed - shame on me.

    1st mile was in 5:33 - much faster than planned, but I want to try things in Parkrun different to goal races - this time - I didn't look at my watch during the race so I had no real idea of pace.
    As I was close enough to KC when my watch vibrated after 1m, I reckoned it was a quick mile and I'd pay for it later.

    As we approached mile 2, there was a corner and I could see that the 2 people in 3rd & 4th were a good bit behind. Worse thing I could have done.

    I was in no mans land, as was KC ahead and I wouldn't cath him, and the 2 behind weren't going to catch me - It was a bit of a time trial.

    Still no idea of pace on mile 2 (.....6:05), I felt it was slower, mainly as KC got further ahead :) - we had a bit of wind along a straight, but for the most part, its a good course for the elements.

    As Mile 3 approached, I felt like I was just going through the motions, focus was gone, the gap between me and 3rd was safe and I was just running to the finish.
    As we approached the point in the course where the 2nd lap joins with the 1st lap (a few hundred meters from the finish), I found myself speeding up drastically to try to pass people (on their 1st lap) - so I obviously wasn't pushing hard enough in the 3rd mile.
    This was confirmed after the race when I checked my splits and seen that mile 3 was 6:15 - which is possibly the slowest mile I've ran in a 5k since God was a Boy.

    The last few hundred meters was a good sprint, I was wondering why I didn't run that fast earlier, but there'll be more parkruns.

    Finished a comfortable 2nd and done a 2 mile CD with KC - I'm now safe in the knowledge that KC has notched up his Hartstown win, but there's a feeling that he'll be back for the course record :) - I just got to plan my park runs better :).

    Overall a great course, very flat, on a good day its PB territory but theres a lack of competitors at the sharp end - my run was basically a time trial. I passed no one from the start to the finish.
    Disappointed with my pacing overall, but I wasn't watching the watch, that's something I can rectify in future park runs and not something I would do in a goal race.
    Mile 3 was terrible and wont be allowed happen again!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,121 ✭✭✭tang1


    Its good that your able to call 18.22 a handy session, nice running.


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