The main thing is keeping the main thing, the main thing

MisterDrak

Jan 31st I'll be unemployed - and all going well - I'll stay unemployed for a couple of months - And a new Car :eek:

AuldManKing

MisterDrak wrote: »

Jan 31st I'll be unemployed - and all going well - I'll stay unemployed for a couple of months - And a new Car :eek:

The escort world is going well for me

Murph_D

AuldManKing wrote: »

The escort world is going well for me

Hope you're talking about a Ford Escort.

Baby75

AuldManKing stopping by to say Hello & Thank you again

AuldManKing

Baby75 wrote: »

AuldManKing stopping by to say Hello & Thank you again

So nice of you - it was a pleasure. Dont be a stranger - visit often

hot buttered scones

AuldManKing wrote:

The P&L plan is a 12 week plan, so be careful how you approach the preceding weeks. Building speed is a good option before going into a plan like yours - as an example, phase 2 of JD 10k plan is a good 6 week speed builder.

That may have answered one of the questions I had going around in my head. I'll have a read of that later. Depending on which half I target I have about 5 or 6 weeks to fill before starting P+L. I might have a crack off the J+D block - even if I don't race after it - just to keep busy.

TFBubendorfer

MisterDrak wrote: »

Jan 31st I'll be unemployed - and all going well - I'll stay unemployed for a couple of months - And a new Car :eek:

Spooky. Me too. :eek:

Except that my car is at the garage right now and I'm still hoping for the best

AuldManKing

Monday: 6m easy down the Park - Mainly on the trails.

6m @ 8.05 pace

Tuesday: Easy miles again - was going to do some strides, but it was dark in the park and a lot of Deer on my usual path, so left them.
In fairness, I'm not fawned of running faster paces especially with a STAGgering amount of deer about.
All said doe, it was a nice run in the dark, there was no rein and no one told me to Buck off.

I'll get my coat...............

6.07m @ 7.47 pace

Wednesday: 5 miles around Porterstown/Carpenterstown with a few strides at the end. Felt good to stretch the legs again. No indication that I ran a marathon last week. (Actually I didn't run a marathon last week - I ran, stopped, stretched, funnywalked, jogged)

5 miles with 6 strides

Thursday: Legs were feeling good today - thanks to the strides, so I wanted to chance some real speed work.
I ran 3miles or so to the Furze road - the pace felt great going down with a 7:05 last WU mile.

I pulled a session from the Daniels base training phase which was 6(200/200/400) - but I shortened it to 4 reps - all with full recoveries.

The reps felt fantastic - felt really good pushing the pace - tried to keep them at a controlled pace the whole way through.
The 200's were a bit loose as I hadn't distance set on the watch - so I ran about 38-40 secs.

The 400's were from Post to Post on the Furze, which are 400m - these reps were 77/76/76/74.

I think 4 was enough at this stage.
3m jog home at a leisurely pace.

10m total.

Duanington

Any decision on what the next main thing is A? ( or maybe I missed that bit, apologies)

AuldManKing

Duanington wrote: »

Any decision on what the next main thing is A? ( or maybe I missed that bit, apologies)

Depends on the time of day that you ask me!

Marathon in April........no, HM in March......no, 10k plan.........no, Marathon in April.........

I'll probably end up doing an 800 meter plan.

career move

Sprinting is the new black

AuldManKing

Friday: 4.4m at 8:19 pace - nice recovery run around the pitches in Porterstown. The legs knew they had done something 'different' yesterday.

Saturday: Session: 3x1m@Tempo pace - 1min Recovery

I had intended on doing a Parkrun at tempo pace on Saturday morning, but decided to take a lie in instead

So ran the 2m to the PP and done 3x1m at what was supposed to be Tempo pace, with a 1 min recovery.

After some stretching - I done the 1st rep from Whites Gate, the OS road and the Furze. Was surprised to see 6:00 for the mile pop up when it beeped.
After a 1 min recovery (they feel like 10 seconds) - I was off again - finishing off the Furze, Down Chesterfield and turning before the visitor center towards the North road. Watch beeped at 5:57. Jesus H Chr!st - too steep again.
The 3rd one was up the North Road and turn up towards the Castleknock Gate - I was feeling the intensity for part of this as it was up the drag - but once I got by the Ashtown turn, it actually began to feel ok again.

Watch beeped again at 5:58. I dont think I could have done a 4th rep, which told its own story.

I had planned for these to be done at 6:10-20 range - so this well exceeded it. I'll have to do a better job at pacing in the next few weeks or I'll be looking for TBL'ish excuses.

Just under 3m home.

8miles for the day - nice workout.

Sunday: Despite a few beers and glasses of wine watching the 2 matches (Jesus the Soccer was awful) - I was up at 8'ish and down in the PP waiting for the club members to turn up. A good crowd, but a few new heads who I didn't know.

Miles ticked off nicely, but by the end, I could feel yesterdays mile reps in the legs as they began to fatigue.

10.11m @ 7.45

49.7 miles for the week - a nice return - I might get out later for a 0.3m run.

AuldManKing

Monday: New Day, new week, new guidance.

Instruction for Day 1 was to run 7miles at 8 min/miles.
So I ran 7 miles at 8 min/miles

7.0m @ 8:00 m/m

Tuesday: Session - 3x(4x90secs) off 90/75/60 secs rec - target 5:30-5:40/mile.

I have a lot of visitors over from Singapore, but with the match on later and my daughters Parent/teacher meeting - I left early anyway

I ran down to the PP thinking that this session would be a bit easier than some of the stuff I've done recently - I was proved wrong. It was a big kick in the ar$e for me in terms of taking sessions for granted.

I haven't ran much at that pace in a while - doing the speedwork last week will have helped somewhat - but these were sorter recoveries compared to last weeks full recoveries.

Breaking the session into different components with decreasing recoveries worked a treat to mentally break it up too.

Following the session, I was reminded of a session I done following my last marathon cycle - which I think was 5x2 mins where I was gasping for air afterwards with my hands on my knees. This was slightly similar - just not so bad

The main thing from the session is that I was taking off far too fast - so my paces was about 30 secs too fast (per mile) for about 20-30 secs, then I'd slow down too much and have to ramp back again.
I tried to focus on starting slower on a couple of reps, and it definitely made it smoother - so something to work on I guess.
Overall the paces were in the ballpark.

2m WarmUp (7:53/mile)

1st Set: 90s rec: 5:38/5:33/5:41/5:33
2nd Set: 75s rec: 5:30/5:30/5:32/5:33
3rd Set: 60s rec: 5:33/5:34/5:35/5:35

2m Cool Down: (8:06/mile)

total for the day: 8.45 miles.

OOnegative

Familiar looking sessions those, best of luck with the young lad, he'll not steer you wrong that's for sure.

AuldManKing

OOnegative wrote: »

Familiar looking sessions those, best of luck with the young lad, he'll not steer you wrong that's for sure.

Yeah, I think he's younger than my daughter. She's 17.

Swashbuckler

Have you joined the stable too?

AuldManKing

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Have you joined the stable too?

Nope - definitely not joining a stable............instead I have a coach who is giving me his undivided attention. :P

Testosterscone

OOnegative wrote: »

Familiar looking sessions those, best of luck with the young lad, he'll not steer you wrong that's for sure.

Slipping in my auld age though this was a bit of fresh innovation to my old stale methods haha

AuldManKing wrote: »

Nope - definitely not joining a stable............instead I have a coach who is giving me his undivided attention. :P

Correct answer - second gold star of the week.

Hence forth any reference to a stable will results in 20x1 mile at 1500m pace off 60 seconds. You have been warned 😋

Annie get your Run

Testosterscone wrote: »

Correct answer - second gold star of the week.

Hence forth any reference to a stable will results in 20x1 mile at 1500m pace off 60 seconds. You have been warned ��

See he's cracking the whip already :D

ThebitterLemon

AuldManKing wrote: »

Nope - definitely not joining a stable............instead I have a coach who is giving me his undivided attention. :P

Welcome to the glue factory

Some of the sessions look easy on paper but can be very tough.

I thought I'd his undivided attention...:)

TbL

Younganne

ThebitterLemon wrote: »

Welcome to the glue factory

Some of the sessions look easy on paper but can be very tough.

I thought I'd his undivided attention...:)

TbL

No that's me!!!:D:D he tells us all the same thing

Welcome to another auldlad....we should do an average on our ages and compare the Bosses!!!!!!

Back in Black

Testosterscone wrote: »

Slipping in my auld age though this was a bit of fresh innovation to my old stale methods haha



Correct answer - second gold star of the week.

Hence forth any reference to a stable will results in 20x1 mile at 1500m pace off 60 seconds. You have been warned ��

Thank feck I was put out to stud so!!!

AuldManKing

I hate doing an update and then have it crash on you - I had some great stories in there too. ahh well - heres the short version.

Wed: 5m @ 8:01 - HR 135 ave. Nothing special.

Thursday: 7m lap of the park - darkness came along, I've a jacket with lights built in front and back blah blah blah......a hat with a built in light.......blah blah...........another runner who ran into me, she was all in dark clothes........ etc etc

7.13m @ 7:56 (HR 129)

Friday: 7x800 (75 sec)

All went well - felt very controlled. All reps around 2:53 ave. Target was 2:55. Close enough.

8.13m

Saturday: Picking up the car after a Friday night out. 4.67m @ 8:03/mile

Sunday: Youngest at Dublin Training in St Annes (Tallaght) - I went running and got lost. Ended up finding a quite scenic Dodder Valley and made my way to Tymon Park before misjudging the mileage back to the GAA place.

There was a story about a woman, but I'm not going into it again..............

13.3m @ 7.43 (HR 141)

53.6m for the week

Wubble Wubble

AuldManKing wrote: »

I hate doing an update and then have it crash on you - I had some great stories in there too. ahh well - heres the short version.

Wed: 5m @ 8:01 - HR 135 ave. Nothing special.

Thursday: 7m lap of the park - darkness came along, I've a jacket with lights built in front and back blah blah blah......a hat with a built in light.......blah blah...........another runner who ran into me, she was all in dark clothes........ etc etc

7.13m @ 7:56 (HR 129)

Friday: 7x800 (75 sec)

All went well - felt very controlled. All reps around 2:53 ave. Target was 2:55. Close enough.

8.13m

Saturday: Picking up the car after a Friday night out. 4.67m @ 8:03/mile

Sunday: Youngest at Dublin Training in St Annes (Tallaght) - I went running and got lost. Ended up finding a quite scenic Dodder Valley and made my way to Tymon Park before misjudging the mileage back to the GAA place.

There was a story about a woman, but I'm not going into it again..............

13.3m @ 7.43 (HR 141)



53.6m for the week

I hope you didn't make that mistake in front of the management....sorry I'm trying to make the best of a bad lot here

AuldManKing

Monday: A lap of the park - the 1st half was grand - the 2nd half was hilly into a wind.

7.13m @ 7.56 pace

Tuesday: As part of the (very) long goodbye to being a HP employee, I was sent to Germany to say farewell to my European team - a band of merry men & women from Germany, Holland and Cz.
I didn't go to any meetings, just went out for dinner and drinks with them and was paid for it.......... (no wonder we're closing down )

I had plenty of time to do a run, so my searches threw up a Sportspark about 2m from the hotel I was in which had a nice path around a lake.

The session was 15x90s (45s) and it went incredibly well. Managed the paces well enough. Managed to start of controlled for most of them and wasn't holding on at the end. I could have done more reps - which is exactly how you are meant to feel.

The pace splits were between 5:45 and 5:54 - with a target of 5:50-6:00.

With just over 2m back to the hotel, the session was 8.5m

Dinner included Zebra and Kangaroo!!

Wednesday: Home from Germany, feeling a bit 'meh' from the self inflicted over indulgence.
5m @ 8:16

Thursday: A lot of inactivity in work these days allowed me to leave before 3 and make my way to the park.
Another lap of the PP - same as Monday, the breeze into my face on the 2nd half.

I had asked the coach about doing strides etc - so got the OK to incorporate them.

6 strides - I done them a bit more controlled than usual.

7.75m - pace for the lap of the park was 7:56 / HR showing as 130 ave-that includes a 1 mile spike

AuldManKing

I was speaking to a guy about my recent marathon experience - hes a non runner, but a good problem solver.
He asked me what 4-5 things I would change if I could go back in time, knowing what I know

Got me thinking a lot about it (again).

Here's what I boiled it down to:

* Run more the week of the race - I didn't taper well.
* Dont run the 20m race as I did (6.44 pace) 3 weeks prior.
* 1st 6m of DCM at 6:45-6:50 pace (actual pace for 1st 6m was 6:34)
* incorporate more down weeks in my training and avoid 8x20 milers.
* run my sessions at MP rather than faster than MP.

That was what I could come up with. Noted here for next time.

OOnegative

AuldManKing wrote: »

I was speaking to a guy about my recent marathon experience - hes a non runner, but a good problem solver.
He asked me what 4-5 things I would change if I could go back in time, knowing what I know

Got me thinking a lot about it (again).

Here's what I boiled it down to:

* Run more the week of the race - I didn't taper well.
* Dont run the 20m race as I did (6.44 pace) 3 weeks prior.
* 1st 6m of DCM at 6:45-6:50 pace (actual pace for 1st 6m was 6:34)
* incorporate more down weeks in my training and avoid 8x20 milers.

That was what I could come up with. Noted here for next time.

Not to sound like a smartarse but none of those will address the issue you suffered from in DCM, cramping. In my less than learned opinion you had a more or less perfect training cycle going into Dublin, all sessions ran as you wanted, adequate long runs in the bag etc. I think your over analysing it a small bit A, you had a **** day like a lot of others had. Let it go and move on, you could not have done more in the lead in to it.

Hi,

Just reading your race report from DCM and it makes pretty familiar reading. Looking at your times, we are pretty similar - 35.30 10k, 16.50 5k, 59.30 10 mile - but I have totally bombed in the marathon twice due to terrible cramping in Dublin 2015 (3.04) and Cork 2012 (3.12).

On both occasions I had trained well but had started to have issues with my calved three weeks out. Anyway, on both race days I started cramping in my hamstrings and calves around the 14 mile mark and after that it is a death march home, knowing that any time you try to push on another excruciating cramp is coming. All I could do in the end was a sort of a weird shuffle that meant I kept the cramping to a minimum.

I had trained really well on both occasions, hitting 80 mpw and nailing all my sessions and long runs without ever cramping so it was devastating for it to happen in the big day.

I had pretty much resigned myself to not doing another marathon but I did start to look into cramping more as it only seems to affect certain people.

Anyway, I did a lot of reading around it and while dehydration and electrolyte intake can be an issue for some, I have started to believe that cramping in muscles is caused by an overloading of those muscles.

In my case, I have very developed hamstrings and calves (my calves are huge) and there is usually a reason for this as I have a skinny frame. In my case, this is caused by underdeveloped glutes which are not working in any way when I am running and causing my calves and hamstring to do all the work.

I have been working to develop my glutes and to increase the mobility of my hips and strength of my core to address all of the above issues and it has certainly helped but I guess there is no way of knowing until you race a marathon.

Anyway, it may be worth looking at.

AuldManKing

Deleted User wrote: »

Hi,

Just reading your race report from DCM and it makes pretty familiar reading. Looking at your times, we are pretty similar - 35.30 10k, 16.50 5k, 59.30 10 mile - but I have totally bombed in the marathon twice due to terrible cramping in Dublin 2015 (3.04) and Cork 2012 (3.12).

On both occasions I had trained well but had started to have issues with my calved three weeks out. Anyway, on both race days I started cramping in my hamstrings and calves around the 14 mile mark and after that it is a death march home, knowing that any time you try to push on another excruciating cramp is coming. All I could do in the end was a sort of a weird shuffle that meant I kept the cramping to a minimum.

I had trained really well on both occasions, hitting 80 mpw and nailing all my sessions and long runs without ever cramping so it was devastating for it to happen in the big day.

I had pretty much resigned myself to not doing another marathon but I did start to look into cramping more as it only seems to affect certain people.

Anyway, I did a lot of reading around it and while dehydration and electrolyte intake can be an issue for some, I have started to believe that cramping in muscles is caused by an overloading of those muscles.

In my case, I have very developed hamstrings and calves (my calves are huge) and there is usually a reason for this as I have a skinny frame. In my case, this is caused by underdeveloped glutes which are not working in any way when I am running and causing my calves and hamstring to do all the work.

I have been working to develop my glutes and to increase the mobility of my hips and strength of my core to address all of the above issues and it has certainly helped but I guess there is no way of knowing until you race a marathon.

Anyway, it may be worth looking at.

Thanks for that - it must be frustrating for you having those super times, not to replicate it in a marathon.

I firmly believe that there is a 'fix' for this and its not just 'one of those things'.

I've ran 6 marathons and cramped in 5 of them - So I feel that I have every right to analyse and look for a solution. Otherwise I'll never attempt to put 15 weeks of my life into training for another one.

The one I didn't cramp in, I felt relaxed all around - as if I was in low 2:50 shape but happy to run a comfortable 2:58.

I'll take on board what you are saying - I've certainly never put any thought or effort into glute or hip strength/mobility - but my calves are also quite big!

"I've ran 6 marathons and cramped in 5 of them"

That's a lot of hurt! Have you spoken to a physio about this? I know cramping isn't strictly something a physio deals with, but there has to be underlying reasons why you are cramping so much. I am pretty sure in my case, it is mechanical rather than the usual reasons for cramping - muscle fatigue, dehydration etc. Most efficient marathon runners gain their strength from their core and drive from their glutes, but I know all my power is coming from my hamstrings and calves, which is not an efficient way to run and is brutally exposed over the longer distances.

I read a really good article on this but cannot find it right now. I will post it when I have more time, but a lot of what was in it rang a bell with me. Also, here are some good exercises: http://improverunningform.com/hip-extension-exercises-for-runners/