Buying iPhone from the US

Benzino

Hi all,

I'm considering about buying myself an iPhone 5c. I have a mate who is over in the US for a few weeks, and I was thinking about getting him to get it for me over there (would save about €200). I see you can buy an unlocked phone that works with GSM sim cards from their website, so I assume it's the same in-store.

Just wondering, has anybody done this before and had any issues? Ever been caught by customs on the way over?

Thanks.

mad m

Yes, bought an iPhone 4S for daughter, it was unlocked. Customs wasn't a problem.

Benzino

mad m wrote: »

Yes, bought an iPhone 4S for daughter, it was unlocked. Customs wasn't a problem.

Cool, I suppose if you bring it in your hand luggage then they wouldn't know about it.

whiterebel

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057038987

IrishHomer

I bought two iPhone 5c's in New York last Thursday took them home to Ireland in hand luggage Friday without any issues.

Benzino

IrishHomer wrote: »

I bought two iPhone 5c's in New York last Thursday took them home to Ireland in hand luggage Friday without any issues.

Great, thanks! I'm gonna email apple support to clarify what happens if it needs repairs.

Also, sorry mods, I didn't see the other thread posted above. This one could probably be closed.

guil

Benzino wrote: »

Great, thanks! I'm gonna email apple support to clarify what happens if it needs repairs.

Also, sorry mods, I didn't see the other thread posted above. This one could probably be closed.

No need to email them. If the model bought in the US is different to what's sold here, you will have to bring it back there for repair.

eorpach

guil wrote: »

No need to email them. If the model bought in the US is different to what's sold here, you will have to bring it back there for repair.

Guill is correct in the case of iPhone. Apple laptops on the other-hand come with a worldwide warranty.

Also to note, an iPhone bought in the EU comes with a two-year warranty (as required by EU law); whereas an iPhone purchased in the States only comes with a 1-year warranty (as required by US law).

Benzino

eorpach wrote: »

Guill is correct in the case of iPhone. Apple laptops on the other-hand come with a worldwide warranty.

Also to note, an iPhone bought in the EU comes with a two-year warranty (as required by EU law); whereas an iPhone purchased in the States only comes with a 1-year warranty (as required by US law).

Thanks for the info. I've decided it's probably worth the €200 for the extra year warranty and knowing that it will be replaced/repaired over here.

whiterebel

eorpach wrote: »

Guill is correct in the case of iPhone. Apple laptops on the other-hand come with a worldwide warranty.

Also to note, an iPhone bought in the EU comes with a two-year warranty (as required by EU law); whereas an iPhone purchased in the States only comes with a 1-year warranty (as required by US law).

Unfortunately not in Ireland though. We have to go through the small claims court, as the full directive wasn't implemented here.

GarIT

eorpach wrote: »

Guill is correct in the case of iPhone. Apple laptops on the other-hand come with a worldwide warranty.

Also to note, an iPhone bought in the EU comes with a two-year warranty (as required by EU law); whereas an iPhone purchased in the States only comes with a 1-year warranty (as required by US law).

You are confusing a warranty with consumer rights. There is nothing like that in Europe. In Ireland the latest you can take a company to court over repairs is 6 years after purchase, there is an EU law that says the earliest this cut off time for being able to sue for repairs is 2 years. It just means out cutoff time couldn't be say a year. The only law that applies in the cutoff time is that the device must last a reasonalbe ammount of time, and how long that is, is for a judge to decide, of could be as little as one day. None of this has anything to do with warranties. A warranty is a voluntary gaurentee of repairs offered by the manufacturer, there is no obligation to offer any warranty at all.

eorpach

GarIT wrote: »

You are confusing a warranty with consumer rights. There is nothing like that in Europe. In Ireland the latest you can take a company to court over repairs is 6 years after purchase, there is an EU law that says the earliest this cut off time for being able to sue for repairs is 2 years. It just means out cutoff time couldn't be say a year. The only law that applies in the cutoff time is that the device must last a reasonalbe ammount of time, and how long that is, is for a judge to decide, of could be as little as one day. None of this has anything to do with warranties. A warranty is a voluntary gaurentee of repairs offered by the manufacturer, there is no obligation to offer any warranty at all.

GarIT - my bad;

I take your point that I should have used the word guarantee instead of warranty (since a warranty is a voluntary contractual clause and a guarantee is a legal obligation). What I simply meant was that an iPhone purchased in Ireland comes with a legal minimum of a 2-year guarantee. (Extra) warranty protection never replaces the minimum 2-year guarantee, which the consumers always has from the seller as their legal right.

HOWEVER:

Your comment that "a device must last a reasonable amount of time" only, and that how long a period of time this is is a subjective matter for a judge, is not an accurate statement of the law in Ireland until after 2 years have elapsed.

It is also not accurate to tell people that the (EU) rule merely says that "the earliest [this] cut off time for being able to sue for repairs is 2 years".

Both statements are factually misleading.

The legal position in Ireland (and the EU) is as follows:

1. Wherever you buy goods in the EU, you have two years to request repairs or replacement if they turn out to be faulty or not as advertised.

2. If a product turns out to be faulty you have a 2-year guarantee, which means the seller must repair or replace it free of charge (the decision is the seller's).

3. The 2-year guarantee is an EU-wide minimum, and the laws in some EU countries may offer you longer limitation periods (in Ireland the law - which predated the relevant EU Directive (99/44/EC) - describes this period as a 'reasonable' amount of time - this cannot be less than 2 years).

4. If a product cannot be repaired or replaced within a reasonable time after the fault has been notified to the seller, or without inconvenience, the consumer may request a refund or a rebate on the priced paid for the product.

5. The two-year guarantee period starts as soon as the goods are delivered to the consumer, and the consumer must inform the seller of the fault within two months of discovering that fault.

6. The seller (shop) is the party who is always liable.

The EU Directive is directly applicable in Ireland under European law and a seller cannot use the failure of Ireland (perceived or otherwise) to properly implement the EU Directive as an excuse to avoid their legal obligation - i.e. the seller must to repair or replace a product free of charge for a minimum of 2 years after the date of delivery to the consumer.

Whether the EU Directive has been properly implemented in Irish law is largely a moot point; the Directive is sufficiently clear to be directly effective, which means that the the pre-existing Irish law (Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act) must under EU legal principles be interpreted by a court in Ireland to be in conformance with the contents of the Directive. This may seem unfair from a seller's perspective, but that is the law; European law trumps Irish.

Once a fault with a product is determined NOT to be caused by the consumer, a judge does NOT have any discretion during the first 2-years to absolve the seller of their legal obligations to the consumer; it is only between year 2 and year 6 that the judge has any discretion because that is when the additional protections under the Irish Act kick in and the obligations of EU law are phased out. In simple terms, what EU law says about the first two year period is paramount over anything the Irish Act says, or anything that the Irish judge thinks.

If a consumer is unhappy with the attitude of a seller (e.g. they are insisting the fault was caused by the consumer and not by the manufacturer or they are not being offered a good-enough rebate on the price that they paid for the product), then that consumer has recourse to a Court (e.g. Small Claims / District), as they always have in any situation where they have a grievance.

To the OP: if you plan on purchasing the phone SIM-free then I recommend that you go direct to Apple, since the law states that the buck stops with the seller (obviously if you buy from a shop then its the shop that is the seller and therefore it is they, rather than Apple, that have ultimate responsibility for fixing your phone - a complication best avoided in the event of a problem).

Have a look at this table on Apple.ie (including the footnote "1" below). This table was posted in response to an Italian Court fining Apple €900,000 for failing to adhere to EU law. Details of the case here.

eorpach

For anybody who skipped the explanation of consumer rights above but who nevertheless wishes to purchase an iPhone:

Look at this consumer law summary table on Apple.ie (including the footnote "1" at the bottom).

Apple posted that table in response to an Italian Court last year fining the company €900,000 for failing to adhere to EU consumer laws (regarding the "2-year" rule). Details of the case are reported here on Techcentral.ie.

thewing

Further to this, I bought a 5 in US last year. I recently damaged it (bent back plate, but phone still working).

Rang support here, and as I didn't buy it here, they can't courier a replacement phone to me. But I can go to the Apple Store in belfast and swap it out.

Obviously not covered under warranty as accidental damage, but I don't have any messing with support in US anyway.

guil

thewing wrote: »

Further to this, I bought a 5 in US last year. I recently damaged it (bent back plate, but phone still working).

Rang support here, and as I didn't buy it here, they can't courier a replacement phone to me. But I can go to the Apple Store in belfast and swap it out.

Obviously not covered under warranty as accidental damage, but I don't have any messing with support in US anyway.

Ring them in Belfast before you go or you could be in for a surprise. Nearly certain culabula enquired with them about replacing phones not so long ago and if the model you have wasn't available to buy here then they won't replace it.

whiterebel

eorpach wrote: »

For anybody who skipped the explanation of consumer rights above but who nevertheless wishes to purchase an iPhone:

Look at this consumer law summary table on Apple.ie (including the footnote "1" at the bottom).

Apple posted that table in response to an Italian Court last year fining the company €900,000 for failing to adhere to EU consumer laws (regarding the "2-year" rule). Details of the case are reported here on Techcentral.ie.

I won't copy and paste the pervious post because it's too big, but you can't say an EU Directive "trumps" Irish law. Our SoGA is better than the protection afforded by the EU Directive, therefore we didn't implement it.
The measure of this? Check the consumer affairs website, or call them, and they will tell you SoGA applies, not the EU directive. I've never heard anyone yet being facilitated by quoting the EU Directive, but plenty who went to the SCC under SoGA. This has been done a million times already on Boards, so I'll leave it at that.

eorpach

whiterebel wrote: »

I won't copy and paste the pervious post because it's too big, but you can't say an EU Directive "trumps" Irish law. Our SoGA is better than the protection afforded by the EU Directive, therefore we didn't implement it.
The measure of this? Check the consumer affairs website, or call them, and they will tell you SoGA applies, not the EU directive. I've never heard anyone yet being facilitated by quoting the EU Directive, but plenty who went to the SCC under SoGA. This has been done a million times already on Boards, so I'll leave it at that.

Whiterebel, my background is as an Irish lawyer with expertise in EU law, so with respect I am not talking out of my ass. Just because something is omitted on the NCA website is not a substitute for a legal analysis of the law.

It is a common misnomer amongst the public that an unimplemented Directive has a lesser status than a measure passed by the Oireachtas. Without giving another long-winded explanation of why that isn't true, take my word for it, or do your own research. In summary, when a country fails to implement a Directive by the given deadline, it doesn't mean that their own domestic law continues to trump the Directive after that date; it just means that a court in that country must interpret the national law in conformance with the Directive; where a conflict occurs, the EU law takes precedence (i.e. so the Directive applies by the back door).

You're right that the SoGA affords better protection in many respects than the EU Directive, except that in the first two years the SoGA takes a "reasonable time" approach, whereas the Directive explicitly states 2 years - so in the first two years the assurances given by the Directive are stronger (and an Irish court must interpret the SoGA in that light). After two years the Directive no longer applies so the SoGA stands on its own. There is no either-or approach in Ireland or elsewhere when it comes to EU law; the minimum requirements of EU law regarding the first two-years after purchasing the product always apply.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with you that there is a level of ignorance out there on the part of sellers (and that many people have had to resort to Small Claims Court as a result - but show me an example of a situation where the court sided with the seller within the first two years, when the consumer didn't themselves cause the fault to the product?)

If you question anybody with any authority in the NCA (above first-response helpline level) I'd be pretty expectant they will agree with what I posted. The reason that they don't explicitly say '2-years' on their website (I suspect) is because, as another poster pointed out, Ireland didn't properly implement the EU Directive via an Act of the Oireachtas or Statutory Instrument, and the NCA as a Government body don't want to be on the hook for sticking their neck too far out. Ireland can be fined by the European Court of Justice for this kind of failure/oversight.

The European Commission has an information site about this. Anybody having problems with a seller ought to consult it or call the European Consumer Centre in Dublin for Advice.

thewing

guil wrote: »

Ring them in Belfast before you go or you could be in for a surprise. Nearly certain culabula enquired with them about replacing phones not so long ago and if the model you have wasn't available to buy here then they won't replace it.

Well I rang Apple in Cork this am, when they encountered an issue I was put on to a senior adviser who set the appointment in the Genius Bar in Belfast. I was told they will be expecting me and should be a 10 minute turnaround.

I got the impression that the process has recently changed i.e. in the past I would have been bunched and would have had to post to US or something.