Sheep housing - non grant aided

Conmaicne Mara

If a farmer was looking to put up some sort of sheep housing, and not looking for any Dept assistance, is there anything that farmer is then required to adhere to?

sea12

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

If a farmer was looking to put up some sort of sheep housing, and not looking for any Dept assistance, is there anything that farmer is then required to adhere to?

I would imagine you would still have to comply with all dept regulations. Any effluent would need to be stored correctly etc. what are u thinking of a tunnel or a perm shed.

Conmaicne Mara

sea12 wrote: »

I would imagine you would still have to comply with all dept regulations. Any effluent would need to be stored correctly etc. what are u thinking of a tunnel or a perm shed.

Permanent shed, either pole barn or steel structure, more likely to be the former with concrete piers and yorkshire boarding on the sides. Most likely straw bedded. Where would one find regs on housing? If I was to do it, I would be looking to put something up as cheap as possible (my own requirement it being a healthy environment for the inmates), hence the question.

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Permanent shed, either pole barn or steel structure, more likely to be the former with concrete piers and yorkshire boarding on the sides. Most likely straw bedded. Where would one find regs on housing? If I was to do it, I would be looking to put something up as cheap as possible (my own requirement it being a healthy environment for the inmates), hence the question.

If you're straw bedding, make sure no seepage comes out by using plenty of straw, especially if eating silage.
Don't think a gravel floor is allowed now, not sure on that though.

Username John

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Permanent shed, either pole barn or steel structure, more likely to be the former with concrete piers and yorkshire boarding on the sides. Most likely straw bedded. Where would one find regs on housing? If I was to do it, I would be looking to put something up as cheap as possible (my own requirement it being a healthy environment for the inmates), hence the question.

Put up a shed a few years ago, simple enough lean to type design - 30ft x 45ft
But in hindsight, I didn't give it enough thought...
I built it, and then fitted in what I could, which was the wrong way to go. As whilst I use every bit if space I can, it's very manual, and prob could never be adapted to larger numbers
But, having said that, it does what I want too I guess

Con - you say straw bedded, how much straw will you need, and where will it be stored?
Will you be feeding hay? If so, does it need to store this as well?
Big round bales, or small squares? If small squares, could you put in a loft? I put a small one in mine, and find it very useful. But again - handling small square bales is very manual.
Big rounds are much easier, and if you were planning it, could you leave one side open, to stack big rounds a few bales high, and then push them in as you need them?
If you were ever thinking of feeding silage, then this might affect your plans, as younger need tractor access?

As regards regulations, not sure. Do you need concrete flooring when using straw? (I have a feeling you might?)

Username John

Am sure you saw this already, and not really sure it's what you're after - but it might answer a few Q for ya

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/farmbuildings/farmbuildingspecifications/pdfversions/S146.pdf

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

If you're straw bedding, make sure no seepage comes out by using plenty of straw, especially if eating silage.
Don't think a gravel floor is allowed now, not sure on that though.

Mm, was looking through various .pdf dept files, only mention I see of flooring is concrete or tanks. That could be the spanner in me works.

Conmaicne Mara

Username John wrote: »

Put up a shed a few years ago, simple enough lean to type design - 30ft x 45ft
But in hindsight, I didn't give it enough thought...
I built it, and then fitted in what I could, which was the wrong way to go. As whilst I use every bit if space I can, it's very manual, and prob could never be adapted to larger numbers
But, having said that, it does what I want too I guess

Con - you say straw bedded, how much straw will you need, and where will it be stored?
Will you be feeding hay? If so, does it need to store this as well?
Big round bales, or small squares? If small squares, could you put in a loft? I put a small one in mine, and find it very useful. But again - handling small square bales is very manual.
Big rounds are much easier, and if you were planning it, could you leave one side open, to stack big rounds a few bales high, and then push them in as you need them?
If you were ever thinking of feeding silage, then this might affect your plans, as younger need tractor access?

As regards regulations, not sure. Do you need concrete flooring when using straw? (I have a feeling you might?)

It's no more than a thought at the moment. I'd have to get the OK to keep more sheep first, then sort out that issue, then look at housing.

If needed I could store hay and straw outside, covered. Did that before years ago and had no issues - wonder is that now frowned upon too? Wouldn't go for the loft option, have put in arctic loads of small bale and round bale hay and straw manually so I am in no way looking at the gravity hardship

Have no tractor so no interest at all in using silage. Round straw is easy handled, round hay less so. I like how I can spread straw dung on the land, I dislike the cost, which will likely rise. So, maybe a shallow tank and slats is the answer and just deal with somewhat solid dung.

Old diesel

Username John wrote: »

Put up a shed a few years ago, simple enough lean to type design - 30ft x 45ft
But in hindsight, I didn't give it enough thought...
I built it, and then fitted in what I could, which was the wrong way to go. As whilst I use every bit if space I can, it's very manual, and prob could never be adapted to larger numbers
But, having said that, it does what I want too I guess

Con - you say straw bedded, how much straw will you need, and where will it be stored?
Will you be feeding hay? If so, does it need to store this as well?
Big round bales, or small squares? If small squares, could you put in a loft? I put a small one in mine, and find it very useful. But again - handling small square bales is very manual.
Big rounds are much easier, and if you were planning it, could you leave one side open, to stack big rounds a few bales high, and then push them in as you need them?
If you were ever thinking of feeding silage, then this might affect your plans, as younger need tractor access?

As regards regulations, not sure. Do you need concrete flooring when using straw? (I have a feeling you might?)

Id like to add a big massive + 1 to this - weve a building (or 2) at home that could have being better set up with a bit more planning.

Silly things imo - like for example - slatted shed - have to go moving bullocks around in one part of the shed - so the bullocks on the other side can be bought into the crush (which is inside the slatted shed).

Bit of forethought now - saves you a lot of hassle in the long run - if things are made awkward in terms of things like (for example) handling animals due to design/other issues with the shed - you either learn to put up with something that could be better - or it will cost you a lot more to fix the issues then it would have done to get it right day one.

So plan well for the new shed - what layout you want - and essentially trying to make life as fuss free as possible (within budget/area constraints) for both you and the sheep.

All imo of course

Conmaicne Mara

Another question, do I need to seek planning permission?

I was reading the CoCo's website, and I think it'd be a type 1 agricultural building:

BUILDING AND STRUCTURES
Providing the following types of agricultural buildings and structures is exempted development:

TYPE 1
A roofed structure housing cattle, sheep, goats, donkeys, horses, deer or rabbits, provided that its floor area does not exceed 200 square metres and that the total floor area of all such structures within the farmyard complex (or 100 metres of it) does not exceed 300 square metres; A roofed structure housing pigs, mink or poultry, provided that its floor area does not exeeed 75 square metres and that the total floor area of all such structures within the farmyard complex (or within 100 metres of it) does not exceed 100 square metres

Conmaicne Mara

No one on the PP?

Was thinking of the pen/feed space challenge. Dept site reckons for 70kg ewes they need 1.2 meters space and 0.6 meters feed space.

To confuse the issue I'm working in feet

So that's roughly 13 foot pen space per ewe and 2 foot feed space. For a 70 x 30 shed I was thinking 6 pens, divided by 4 two foot walk ways and a 6 foot central passageway.

The pens would measure 22 foot wide, 12 foot deep which leaves each pen with room for 20 ewes, but feed space for just 17. Seeing my ewes are below the 70kg I reckon I could get away with the 20 if I needed to, but I wouldn't be filling a shed to the brim so no matter.

Figure 70x30 is a better use of space than 45x45...?

rancher

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

No one on the PP?

Was thinking of the pen/feed space challenge. Dept site reckons for 70kg ewes they need 1.2 meters space and 0.6 meters feed space.

To confuse the issue I'm working in feet

So that's roughly 13 foot pen space per ewe and 2 foot feed space. For a 70 x 30 shed I was thinking 6 pens, divided by 4 two foot walk ways and a 6 foot central passageway.

The pens would measure 22 foot wide, 12 foot deep which leaves each pen with room for 20 ewes, but feed space for just 17. Seeing my ewes are below the 70kg I reckon I could get away with the 20 if I needed to, but I wouldn't be filling a shed to the brim so no matter.

Figure 70x30 is a better use of space than 45x45...?

Correct, a long narrow shed is better for sheep, don't forget that the ewes eating off the central passage but standing at the two foot walkways is blocking three foot of those walkway so you have only about 9-10 ft of those 12ft walkways available,
I allow 18 inches feed space and it seems to work

Conmaicne Mara

rancher wrote: »

Correct, a long narrow shed is better for sheep, don't forget that the ewes eating off the central passage but standing at the two foot walkways is blocking three foot of those walkway so you have only about 9-10 ft of those 12ft walkways available,
I allow 18 inches feed space and it seems to work

Good point, I had forgotten that.

I remember Dad having more ewes in a pen than the Dept calculations would allow for too. We never had problems back then with it either. I am trying to err on the side of caution a bit. A bit of free shed space is never wasted.

Vandy West

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Another question, do I need to seek planning permission?

I was reading the CoCo's website, and I think it'd be a type 1 agricultural building:

BUILDING AND STRUCTURES
Providing the following types of agricultural buildings and structures is exempted development:

TYPE 1
A roofed structure housing cattle, sheep, goats, donkeys, horses, deer or rabbits, provided that its floor area does not exceed 200 square metres and that the total floor area of all such structures within the farmyard complex (or 100 metres of it) does not exceed 300 square metres; A roofed structure housing pigs, mink or poultry, provided that its floor area does not exeeed 75 square metres and that the total floor area of all such structures within the farmyard complex (or within 100 metres of it) does not exceed 100 square metres

A 70x30 shed would be approx 200 square.m so if the existing buildings within your farmyard (including any agri building within 100m of the farmyard) have a floor area greater than 100 square m (1100 square ft) then you are supposed to get planning.
If any neighbours houses are within 100m of the new build or your close to the road then you should check with the council.
If in doubt meet the planner in your area, they will tell you for definite, if you think they are wrong or trying to drum up business then get an engineer.