Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

FAILSAFE 00

tok9 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is really complaining about there change. I'd be extremely concerned regarding there complete reversal of their vision for xbox and how adamant they were regarding how integral kinect and the online check in were.

I would be more concerned if a company didn't listen to its audience and made no changes for the better. Things are heating up now. Xbox is picking up the pace.

calex71

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Microsoft have always been a company that releases a product and modifies it based on consumer feedback after its released. There's nothing really wrong with that approach. It would be worse if they didn't react to it.

There is everything wrong with that approach lol it costs them time and money and resourses to put right what should have been right in the beginning, and we aren't taking rocket science here , the dog on the street could have told them what was wrong with windows 8 and xbox one.

You have to question the decision makers employed by them and how they still have jobs though in some cases. The "we'll tell you what you want and need" attitude only works for Apple... and quite well for them actually :pac:

Retr0gamer

It actually costs Microsoft less to do it that way actually which is why they've done it for so long. They release something quicker, and cheaper and use the customers somewhat as beta testers. Now this is more so for software products but the 360 and One were kind of built with the philosophy in mind. A lot of work went into into making the 360 easy to update and can be updated drastically. Compare that to the ps3 which has a many dreadful systems that can't be changed like its updating or installation processes.

And yes it is different from how apple operate since they pour far more resources into consumer testing their products.

calex71

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It actually costs Microsoft less to do it that way actually which is why they've done it for so long. They release something quicker, and cheaper and use the customers somewhat as beta testers. Now this is more so for software products but the 360 and One were kind of built with the philosophy in mind. A lot of work went into into making the 360 easy to update and can be updated drastically. Compare that to the ps3 which has a many dreadful systems that can't be changed like its updating or installation processes.

And yes it is different from how apple operate since they pour far more resources into consumer testing their products.

What I'm getting at though in the case of One and windows 8 was they were so blatantly and unnecessarily wrong, like wrong as in the ideas should have been shot down at the team brain storming stages by someone with even a remote shred of common sense ..... though as you rightly point out MS have history here , so was it a case of it actually being shot down early on but someone with more clout thinking they know better and bulling ahead or overruling ..... probably the case.... has to be surely

FAILSAFE 00

RasTa wrote: »

Well they have removed the feature that sets it apart from the PS4 now it's just another gaming console.

Kinect will be sold as an accessory, its not gone.

Xbox One still has many features that differentiate it from the competition.
Microsoft's Azure dedicated hosting platform.
HDMI input for media players, TV's and PC's.
Better Twitch app.
Snap mode.
Big console exclusives like Titanfall. PS4 has their own exclusives.
Far better Youtube app. We can upload our gaming clips straight to youtube.

RasTa wrote: »

Sony has a useless camera and some VR stuff for E3 whilst Xbox just has games. It's worked for Sony so far with the cheaper price point and better resolution.

Its interesting. Are Sony going to make the same mistake as Microsoft (Betting on a peripheral). I don't think their VR headset will sell well. It will probably be priced too high.

RasTa wrote: »

I think Sony will get the hype going again with E3 since they have something other to show than games and shows the console progressing which will keep their sales strong

I don't think either camp will generate much hype at this years E3. Its now all about the games.

RasTa wrote: »

I'm not complaining, just think this move won't effect sales and am willing to bet money if needed.

I don't want to take your allowance :P

Retr0gamer

calex71 wrote: »

What I'm getting at though in the case of One and windows 8 was they were so blatantly and unnecessarily wrong, like wrong as in the ideas should have been shot down at the team brain storming stages by someone with even a remote shred of common sense ..... though as you rightly point out MS have history here , so was it a case of it actually being shot down early on but someone with more clout thinking they know better and bulling ahead or overruling ..... probably the case.... has to be surely

What you are getting at is that this is the way microsoft have always operated, it's their design philosophy . It's not the first time they've done it, it won't be the last. What they do is throw a product out there and fix it and they go. If they have a new feature they will force people to use it and if it doesn't work they'll remove it. They tweak after the product is released unlike apple who are set on getting a polished and user friendly product to market.

I'm actually surprised they backtracked on their digital games strategy before release since it's not a very microsoft thing to do. However the quick turn around shows that the same strategy of release and iterate later based on feedback is built into the design of the One as well.

shreddedloops

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Kinect will be sold as an accessory, its not gone.

Xbox One still has many features that differentiate it from the competition.
Microsoft's Azure dedicated hosting platform.
HDMI input for media players, TV's and PC's.
Better Twitch app.
Snap mode.
Big console exclusives like Titanfall. PS4 has their own exclusives.
Far better Youtube app. We can upload our gaming clips straight to youtube.

This is where these type of comparisons fall apart...

But you're right. Xbox One does still have some pretty attractive features.

C14N

calex71 wrote: »

What I'm getting at though in the case of One and windows 8 was they were so blatantly and unnecessarily wrong, like wrong as in the ideas should have been shot down at the team brain storming stages by someone with even a remote shred of common sense ..... though as you rightly point out MS have history here , so was it a case of it actually being shot down early on but someone with more clout thinking they know better and bulling ahead or overruling ..... probably the case.... has to be surely

I don't think Microsoft thought for one second that stuff like the forced Kinect or the second hand game strategy were going to be perceived by gamers as positives. I think in both cases it was just that they were trying to push the boundaries of what they could get away with. They probably thought they wouldn't sell as many, but they would get more money for the ones they did sell. When you look at the success Valve are having with a no-secondhand system you can see why they thought they could get in on this.

Not to mention that we were all half-expecting Sony to follow suit which meant we would have this rubbish either way. Their big mistake was putting the ball in Sony's court. At that point, Sony could either announce that they were doing the same thing and they could all skip off into the sunset knowing that they had won over the developers and that gamers would still be buying one system or the other or they could not follow and then coast off the positive PR for months. Thankfully they chose the latter.

EoinHef

C14N wrote: »

When you look at the success Valve are having with a no-secondhand system you can see why they thought they could get away with

Not really a like for like comparison considering the difference of price of games on the respective platforms.

I wish Valve made consoles:pac:

And yes i know about steam machines,but if i want an overpriced PC ill go to PC world

C14N

EoinHef wrote: »

Not really a like for like comparison considering the difference of price of games on the respective platforms.

I wish Valve made consoles:pac:

And yes i know about steam machines,but if i want an overpriced PC ill go to PC world

I would agree, but I'm sure MS saw it and though "me too". The problem is that the Xbox is a closed system where MS control everything so the prices stay high. Steam is just delivering Windows games, if the price is high you can just go anywhere else and buy the games.

Retr0gamer

I honestly think Microsoft were one generation too early with their digital policy. I expect to see a shift to that kind of service slowly during this generation and it becoming the norm for the next. I'm really not happy with that but I feel it's inevitable.

For all the people championing PS Plus, it's probably doing more to damage game ownership than anything MS proposed. However I have to admire it as a far more successful trojan horse for Sony's digital policies than Microsofts more forceful approach.

sarumite

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Its interesting. Are Sony going to make the same mistake as Microsoft (Betting on a peripheral). I don't think their VR headset will sell well. It will probably be priced too high.

Since we don't know the price it will retail at, its a little bit pointless saying it won't sell. You might as well just flip a coin at this stage. That said betting a peripheral isn't necessarily a bad idea. The original kinect sold quite well. Unfortunately the hardware itself was far behind what was promised and the software lineup was weak. Kinect 2.0 hasn't been a big enough improvement on the original to make it an enticing peripheral and many who were burned by the first version were clearly put off from having to pay for it successor given its clear limitations and shortcomings. I think based on MS experience with a peripheral, the VR thing will live and die by how good it is.

Retr0gamer

Hardware peripherals have traditionally been failures. Even the ones that have good sales like the balance board for the wii split the market. No point developing for a smaller market share when developing for the whole market will get you more money. I can see it being an expensive luxury, much like 3D support was for a brief year in games this gen. It will probably set the ground work for the possibility of VR being inclusive next gen.

_Redzer_

Before it was bought by Facebook, I thought oculus rift was very cool, and not a gimmick like motion controls or 3D was (well I actually don't think 3D is a gimmick as it's more immersive and help in judging distances, but is too taxing on the system for its worth)

I'm keeping an open mind to Sony's VR headset, from watching some oculus videos it could be great. Even indie games like minecraft for example would be really cool with it.

super_furry

The Xbox One is currently 470 euro in Argos with the Kinect, Titanfall and Thief. Very tempting.

EoinHef

I dont really trade games for console,if ive bought it i usually take my time playing it and by the time im finished its only worth very little in trade in value hence ill end up keeping it.

Because of the above i would gladly take a system where if i bought a digital copy at a reduced price(Lets say €40)that could not be traded.

Leaving the physical copy at €60 but it could be traded,as it stands we mostly pay the same price for both digital and physical yet the physical can be traded.

To me digital distribution was supposed to bring value to the consoles this gen,looks like its certainly not gonna be anytime soon:mad:

Retr0gamer

Check the prices on XBox Live. There's no value to be found there. On PC there's tonnes of competition to keep prices down. On console you can only use one marketplace and the hardware manufacturer has a monopoly over that market with no incentive to offer good prices. It's why game prices are so insane digitally compared to PC gaming. Sony do seem to be better in this regard but they still aren't great.

EoinHef

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Check the prices on XBox Live. There's no value to be found there. On PC there's tonnes of competition to keep prices down. On console you can only use one marketplace and the hardware manufacturer has a monopoly over that market with no incentive to offer good prices. It's why game prices are so insane digitally compared to PC gaming. Sony do seem to be better in this regard but they still aren't great.

Totally agree...well mostly! I think Sony are just as bad as MS when it comes to digital. Well in europe anyway,from reading the PS forum the US seem to get a lot of flash sales and better discounts.

I understand why the pricing is as high as it is,just dont like it.

Honestly i dont buy Apple products for the same reason,Apple are even worse imo.
They charge way over the odds for the hardware as well not just the software and get away with it because there brand is supposed to be "cool",them buying Beats sounds like a marriage made in rip off branding heaven!!

I think both Xbox 1 and PS4 price points are reasonable for the performance they give especially the PS4,just the games that are overpriced imo

CiDeRmAn

That's the good thing about consoles and physical media, there is a great selection of sources, especially if you are not hung up on owning a game at its release. I have picked up tons of bargains via Amazon, Adverts, Ebay etc.
And it's what both MS and Sony will try to crush later, even if they say they won't right now.

EoinHef

We live in an age where these companies are trying to resist the digital revolution and with there closed eco systems try to extort every last penny from the consumer......BUT as you say Ciderman(i like Bulmers too:)) we can circumvent a lot of this by buying smart and using the different sources to procure access to these games....just a pain in the a*** having to do so:mad:

Rather than resist it companies like MS and Sony should try to become part of the Digital Revolution lest they be left behind looking like dinosaurs...IMO

Viva la revolution:D

FAILSAFE 00

The last few Xbox One games I have bought have been digital downloads. I am too lazy to get up and change the game

At first I thought I would only buy physical copies of games but now I just find it convenient to download them and then I can switch between them instantly.

EoinHef

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

The last few Xbox One games I have bought have been digital downloads. I am too lazy to get up and change the game

At first I thought I would only buy physical copies of games but now I just find it convenient to download them and then I can switch between them instantly.

Id be quite happy to do the same if i thought i was getting good value....

I really want to play through the new Wolfenstein game on PS4 but look at somewhere like amazon(UK)the game is €57 on PS4/X1 and ill bet PSN/Live will charge €59.99 for it and its €33 on PC.

Gamestop have it listed as €69.99(X1 and PS4) so would not be surprised if it was that either on PSN/Live.
I want to get it on PS4 but now ill have to wait because if i want it digital ive to pay MORE for it than i can get it elsewhere,that is not how i saw digital distribution being with this new gen of consoles...at least make the digital version on your platform the cheapest as i lose things like trade in value. IMO that is the trade off. Sure ive only got a license for all my Steam games,nobody owns them and that is why there so cheap imo

*That last comment is leaving European Law aside...Grey area:D*

FAILSAFE 00

EoinHef wrote: »

Id be quite happy to do the same if i thought i was getting good value....

I really want to play through the new Wolfenstein game on PS4 but look at somewhere like amazon(UK)the game is €57 on PS4/X1 and ill bet PSN/Live will charge €59.99 for it and its €33 on PC.

Gamestop have it listed as €69.99(X1 and PS4) so would not be surprised if it was that either on PSN/Live.
I want to get it on PS4 but now ill have to wait because if i want it digital ive to pay MORE for it than i can get it elsewhere,that is not how i saw digital distribution being with this new gen of consoles...at least make the digital version on your platform the cheapest as i lose things like trade in value. IMO that is the trade off. Sure ive only got a license for all my Steam games,nobody owns them and that is why there so cheap imo

*That last comment is leaving European Law aside...Grey area:D*

Since the launch in November I have been able to find great deals for digital downloads through the Xbox US store and a few websites.

I haven't paid more than €45 per game since going digital downloads. I am happy not to be giving Gamestop business anymore.

It would be great to have PC prices but highly unlikely due to very little competition.

cadete

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

I would be more concerned if a company didn't listen to its audience and made no changes for the better. Things are heating up now. Xbox is picking up the pace.

Personally before E3 last year i was on the fence with xbox and playstation. Had ms announced the launch of the 1 as it now, it would have been 50/50 which console i would have gone for as i wanted the best machine i could get. But with drm and all the other unwanted addons they made the decision easy.
I wont buy an xbox because i pay 1 sub and dont want to pay 2. lots of others will be the same as me and with ps4 being ahead now they will find it very hard to catch up until the machine drops to the 200 euro bracket,
imo too little too late

VinLieger

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

you complain when they have a paywall
you complain when they remove paywall

you complain when they add kinect
you complain when they remove kinect

you complain when they don't listen too customer's
you complain when they listen but their "backtracking"

some people are never happy:rolleyes:

Actualy I never once complained about those issues but i get what your saying theres people who are never happy.

As far as being in the Sony camp im still on the fence but heavily leaning the direction of a PS4 this august/september in time for the holiday releases. I think the E3 conferences will likely make my decision for me.

Regards Microsoft I have no problem with their original plan and idea for the Xbone. Did I agree with it? No but that's what they decided they wanted it to be so they should have stuck with it IMO.

All they have proven in the last year is that they really have no idea what to do with the Xbone after the massive backlash against what they envisioned for it. Everytime I see another press release from them about the Xbone all i see is a rudderless ship that hasn't a ****ing clue which direction they are going or more importantly which direction they SHOULD be going.

C14N

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I honestly think Microsoft were one generation too early with their digital policy. I expect to see a shift to that kind of service slowly during this generation and it becoming the norm for the next. I'm really not happy with that but I feel it's inevitable.

For all the people championing PS Plus, it's probably doing more to damage game ownership than anything MS proposed. However I have to admire it as a far more successful trojan horse for Sony's digital policies than Microsofts more forceful approach.

Maybe, although I think they made a fair assessment in trying to go almost completely digital. I know very few fellow PC gamers who still buy physical games instead of downloads, I know very few people who buy DVDs/Blu Rays instead of streaming and I feel like a dinosaur for still wanting music on CD. In most mediums, most people are ready for it. The problem is like you say, people don't trust Microsoft fixing the prices due to the absolutely awful prices of full games on XBLA now (and for the record, in my experience Sony aren't even slightly better, every time I check PSN I seem to see a front page game for €70). If Microsoft can build up consumer trust this time around with reasonable prices and regular sales (and ideally with an open marketplace that lets other retailers sell keys like Steam, Origin and Uplay do) then I think people would be more willing to hear them out.

Regarding Sony's damage, you could be right. It depends on the ultimate goal of the PS Plus service. Obviously, it was brought in to ease the pain of paid online mode. Sony were doing so badly last time that they had to skip on this gold mine but in the last 2 or 3 years they've built up enough gamer goodwill to get away with it. When it was announced, there were a few frowns but plenty of people were saying "well PS Plus is such a good deal that you should get it anyway". However, once they've made the switch they might not be so generous any more, because they won't need to be. I don't know what their numbers are like, maybe the service is profitable but given the number of AAA games they're putting out for the subscription, it could be that this was just supposed to be a short term loss. It's bound to be more reserved next time.

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Before it was bought by Facebook, I thought oculus rift was very cool, and not a gimmick like motion controls or 3D was (well I actually don't think 3D is a gimmick as it's more immersive and help in judging distances, but is too taxing on the system for its worth)

I'm keeping an open mind to Sony's VR headset, from watching some oculus videos it could be great. Even indie games like minecraft for example would be really cool with it.

It still is cool, the ownership changes nothing, it's still going to run all the same games the same way, possibly with better hardware now. They probably won't be competing directly in any case. Oculus Rift is for PC games, Sony's Morpheus will most likely work only on PS4. Which one you pick comes down to your system of choice.

maximoose

All they have proven in the last year is that they really have no idea what to do with the Xbone after the massive backlash against what they envisioned for it. Everytime I see another press release from them about the Xbone all i see is a rudderless ship that hasn't a ****ing clue which direction they are going or more importantly which direction they SHOULD be going.

Well pretty much every press release, interview, system news in the last few months has had a pretty clear indication of the direction they (under Phil Spencer) want to take. Games, games, games.

I just hope they follow up on it.

super_furry

Possibly a very daft question but with all this talk of Watchdogs being 900p on PS4 and 728p on Xbox One, would you be able to notice any difference if the television you're running it on is 720p?

sarumite

super_furry wrote: »

Possibly a very daft question but with all this talk of Watchdogs being 900p on PS4 and 728p on Xbox One, would you be able to notice any difference if the television you're running it on is 720p?

No. Although I doubt I could tell the difference on a TV running at 1080p either to be honest.

_Redzer_

sarumite wrote: »

No. Although I doubt I could tell the difference on a TV running at 1080p either to be honest.

Yes there is a clear, and noticeable difference between 1080p and 720p.

It's like saying there's an unnoticeable difference between 60fps and 30fps.

If you can't tell the difference you might want to get your eyes seen to.