Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

Retr0gamer

Grayditch wrote: »

This thread went from Atari Jaguar to Statutory Rape way later than I expected.

Next stop: Godwin's Law

ETA 20 posts.

Grayditch

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Next stop: Godwin's Law

ETA 20 posts.

10, I'd say Wolfenstein is out today.

4Dlolz

kunst nugget wrote: »

Hmm, you accuse someone of comparing apples and oranges and yet…



Outstanding logic. Because you steal it, it means you haven't entered into a contract and thus you don't have to worry about the consequences of your actions. I'm hazarding a guess here but do you indulge in a bit of freemanism on the side? Arr, that maritime law is a harsh mistress…

Nope.

gaynorvader

4Dlolz wrote: »

{...}
The individual that decided to put this data on the information freeway has entered the contract with the seller to pay for this product. I, on the other hand, have entered no such contract and therefore I am completely without liability. Such is capitalism.
{...}

Not quite, the seller has sold their product to a buyer, who, by the terms of the sales agreement, is prohibited from putting it up on the "information freeway". Sometimes people break contracts though and thus it ends up there and people download it. It is much the same as buying stolen goods, you are liable for it, you may or may not be prosecuted, but you have broken a law.

RasTa

This new chap doesn't sound like he is still in school either which makes his ramblings more laughable.

Gaming is the only medium left that I don't pirate

sarumite

4Dlolz wrote: »

That's physical aggression. You're comparing apples and oranges.





The fact of the matter is that the majority of laws in this world have zero justification save for the whims and arbitrary demands of egotistical megalomaniacs. If you smoke weed in the privacy of your own home, then your criticism of me is hypocritical. Everyone "breaks the law", just in their own little ways. But what is "the law" as you see it? Decrees from God?!

The individual that decided to put this data on the information freeway has entered the contract with the seller to pay for this product. I, on the other hand, have entered no such contract and therefore I am completely without liability. Such is capitalism.

And to the mods, intellectual property is a debate that gets discussed all over boards.ie - there is nothing wrong or forbidden about discussing it's damaging affect on our gaming industry by stifling innovation and progress.

I wasn't talking about the law. I see a difference between smoking weed in my own living and stealing someone elses weed because "I don't believe in property rights, that's just my politics :cool:".

sarumite

RasTa wrote: »

This new chap doesn't sound like he is still in school either which makes his ramblings more laughable.

Gaming is the only medium left that I don't pirate

I have netflix, spotify and PS plus. On top of that I wait for steam sales. I don't need to pirate, there are plenty of ways of accessing content trough legal means while not having to spend a fortune.

4Dlolz

sarumite wrote: »

I wasn't talking about the law. I see a difference between smoking weed in my own living and stealing someone elses weed because "I don't believe in property rights, that's just my politics :cool:".

That weed is a physical item and it belongs to someone else. Once it's consumed, it's gone. Not the same with information.

Information over the internet is in the public domain. Information is not a scarce resource so it does not come under the heading on property rights. If A gives out information, it does not negatively impact B's share of the pot. The argument is that without IP artists and companies would have no financial incentive to create but the majority of great historical figures operated without IP - Shakespeare never wrote an original play in his life. All of his works were manipulated from previous pieces.

Copyright laws are doing more harm today in the computer age. Project Guttenburg is a massive text resource site that plans, by donation, to upload as much material as possible but thus far the majority of content is pre-20th century to avoid the hassle of modern copyright laws. So essentially, copyright is holding us back, not bringing us forward. It's making information increasingly more difficult to access, not easier.

And that's why I don't agree with the corporation mandated laws of IP.

FAILSAFE 00

4Dlolz wrote: »

I was told I was "stealing". I am just explaining my position. :pac:

You wouldn't ......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmZm8vNHBSU

_Redzer_

I must be a very rare breed of 20 year old, I actually even buy my music.

Occasionally I will pirate movies I can't get them off Netflix, but I nearly always end up buying them later on when I can because of the blu ray quality.

Retr0gamer

Right get back on topic everyone. Also boasting that you pirate something will get you a ban.

Grayditch

It has the Assassin's Creed Black Flag thread ruined.

kunst nugget

4Dlolz wrote: »

That weed is a physical item and it belongs to someone else. Once it's consumed, it's gone. Not the same with information.

Information over the internet is in the public domain. Information is not a scarce resource so it does not come under the heading on property rights. If A gives out information, it does not negatively impact B's share of the pot. The argument is that without IP artists and companies would have no financial incentive to create but the majority of great historical figures operated without IP - Shakespeare never wrote an original play in his life. All of his works were manipulated from previous pieces.

Copyright laws are doing more harm today in the computer age. Project Guttenburg is a massive text resource site that plans, by donation, to upload as much material as possible but thus far the majority of content is pre-20th century to avoid the hassle of modern copyright laws. So essentially, copyright is holding us back, not bringing us forward. It's making information increasingly more difficult to access, not easier.

And that's why I don't agree with the corporation mandated laws of IP.

Great work was created in the past before copyright, it's true but generally through patronage. The lack of copyright law has led to many an artist dying penniless while their art was successful and popular. In essence, copyright allows and an artist or creator to make money from what they have created. It is undeniable that there is abuse of copyright law, the patent wars between corporations and the manipulations of artists by record companies being a prime example of that, but that does not mean that copyright is without merit. Ostensibly you are saying that no one deserves to earn any money from they have created. No art beyond hobbyist material would ever be made if there was no financial incentive to do it and very little if any great art could be made in those circumstances.

Don't pretend there is a higher philosophical justification for the fact that you just want to have sh¡t for free.

kunst nugget

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

You wouldn't ......

I tried downloading a car. It didn't work…

EoinHef

I dont pirate games either,but the original point of console games being to expensive still stands:

Wolfenstein PC on G2A: €27.99

Wolfenstein PS4 on Amazon €48

I have a PC but i want this on my PS4 as ive been looking for reasons to play it at the moment,bar playimg the ps+ games every month,but at that price im gonna have to wait and get second hand most likely

maximoose

^€48 delivered from Amazon if you can wait a few days.

EoinHef

A warning for what? I was trying to seperate the two points.

The original disscusion was about game prices and i was trying to bring it back to that?

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote: »

I dont pirate games either,but the original point of console games being to expensive still stands:

Wolfenstein PC on G2A: €27.99

Wolfenstein PS4 in Argos €58.99

I have a PC but i want this on my PS4 as ive been looking for reasons to play it at the moment,bar playimg the ps+ games every month,but at that price im gonna have to wait and get second hand most likely

You can't really compare the price of PC and console games and then use a key site to show how much cheaper it is. The price of Wolfenstein on PC is €49.99 which is comparable to console pricing.

Everyone talks about how much cheaper PC gaming is but if you buy from Steam or the like then it's rather expensive. Even in stores such as gamestop we've seen the price of PC games sky rocket since the release of Skyrim. Before then you could get new release titles On PC for 30-40 euro but now it's often closer to €60.

EoinHef

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can't really compare the price of PC and console games and then use a key site to show how much cheaper it is. The price of Wolfenstein on PC is €49.99 which is comparable to console pricing.

Everyone talks about how much cheaper PC gaming is but if you buy from Steam or the like then it's rather expensive. Even in stores such as gamestop we've seen the price of PC games sky rocket since the release of Skyrim. Before then you could get new release titles On PC for 30-40 euro but now it's often closer to €60.

Just because its from a key site does not mean the price is any less valid imo. Ill edit my original post to €48 from amazon for console though,didnt know it could be got there for that price.

Why would you restrict your self to one store for games? I rarely buy any games on steam at rrp anymore and id say most here dont either.

gaynorvader

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't really compare the price of PC and console games and then use a key site to show how much cheaper it is. The price of Wolfenstein on PC is €49.99 which is comparable to console pricing.

Everyone talks about how much cheaper PC gaming is but if you buy from Steam or the like then it's rather expensive. Even in stores such as gamestop we've seen the price of PC games sky rocket since the release of Skyrim. Before then you could get new release titles On PC for 30-40 euro but now it's often closer to €60.

Why not? A new game is a new game. You can get Wolfenstein for the PS4 for about €49 on Amazon. The comparison of prices between a mortar and brick store and online stores is a bit disingenuous, but the problem is the consoles don't have the same competition of online distribution that PCs do and so are more expensive.

I still love playing games on my PS3/360 though, I just tend to get older titles.

C14N

Grayditch wrote: »

This thread went from Atari Jaguar to Statutory Rape way later than I expected.

Someone had to do it :rolleyes:

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't really compare the price of PC and console games and then use a key site to show how much cheaper it is. The price of Wolfenstein on PC is €49.99 which is comparable to console pricing.

Everyone talks about how much cheaper PC gaming is but if you buy from Steam or the like then it's rather expensive. Even in stores such as gamestop we've seen the price of PC games sky rocket since the release of Skyrim. Before then you could get new release titles On PC for 30-40 euro but now it's often closer to €60.

But the point is that sales are so incredibly frequent on PC that you rarely end up paying full price. Yeah, you pay RRP on Steam or Uplay or whatever if you just buy the game but I know very few PC gamers who do this. Even for pre-ordering I've gotten tons of emails from sites with offers on Watch Dogs for under €25, which is about half the price of anywhere on the consoles. I rarely pay more than €10 for a PC game and I've still got far more games than I can actually play.

ahnowbrowncow

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't really compare the price of PC and console games and then use a key site to show how much cheaper it is. The price of Wolfenstein on PC is €49.99 which is comparable to console pricing.

Everyone talks about how much cheaper PC gaming is but if you buy from Steam or the like then it's rather expensive. Even in stores such as gamestop we've seen the price of PC games sky rocket since the release of Skyrim. Before then you could get new release titles On PC for 30-40 euro but now it's often closer to €60.

That's a ridiculous argument, it's the same as saying "Why are you getting PS4/XBOX One games on amazon when you can get them in gamespot for twice the price"

Who in their right mind buys new games from steam when they're far cheaper in other places.

miju

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I'd wager that 99% of users are downloading ROMs illegally.

qft

Retr0gamer

Right I'm getting very pissed off handing out warning. Next person that brings up copyright after this post gets a 3 week break.

EoinHef

EoinHef wrote: »

Just because its from a key site does not mean the price is any less valid imo. Ill edit my original post to €48 from amazon for console though,didnt know it could be got there for that price.

Why would you restrict your self to one store for games? I rarely buy any games on steam at rrp anymore and id say most here dont either.

Not saying the price is less valid but rather that PC gamins isn't actually all the cheaper if you use official channels. It's all well and good to compare G2A and Argos but it's not comparing like with like. A more apt comparison would be Steam and Argos.

Key sites are great but there is a risk that those keys are cheap Russian keys and as such Steam can remove the game from your inventory.

If you shop around you can get Wolfensteind for the PS4 for 40 euro which is a great price for a new release on console and if you're someone who trades in after completing a game you could properly get your money back on it

gaynorvader wrote: »

Why not? A new game is a new game. You can get Wolfenstein for the PS4 for about €49 on Amazon. The comparison of prices between a mortar and brick store and online stores is a bit disingenuous, but the problem is the consoles don't have the same competition of online distribution that PCs do and so are more expensive.

I still love playing games on my PS3/360 though, I just tend to get older titles.

If you want to get Wolfenstein for consoles then you use vgp where you can get it for €40. Sure you'll be waiting a week or so but the savings make it worth it.

C14N wrote: »

But the point is that sales are so incredibly frequent on PC that you rarely end up paying full price. Yeah, you pay RRP on Steam or Uplay or whatever if you just buy the game but I know very few PC gamers who do this. Even for pre-ordering I've gotten tons of emails from sites with offers on Watch Dogs for under €25, which is about half the price of anywhere on the consoles. I rarely pay more than €10 for a PC game and I've still got far more games than I can actually play.

To be fair Sony have really upped their game in regards sales and it's not uncommon to find a recently released title going for dirt cheap. Steam sales are nowhere near as good as they used to be and it takes them a lot longer to drop prices which I suppose is likely down to the sales they've lost to key sites.

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

That's a ridiculous argument, it's the same as saying "Why are you getting PS4/XBOX One games on amazon when you can get them in gamespot for twice the price"

Who in their right mind buys new games from steam when they're far cheaper in other places.

That's not what I was saying at all. My point was that the prices for PC games has shot up in recent years and the days of new titles getting lower rrp are long gone. Now the rrp for most PC games is similar to console pricing. If you shop around you can find Wolfenstein for 40 euro on consoles, which is a bargain when you think about it. Now you can get it cheaper on key sites for PC but there is no security with that. I bought Wolfenstein on a key site and played it earlier but I know that I can turn on Steam tomorrow and find that they have removed it.

CiDeRmAn

I wonder if the console market is going to look any different this time next year?
I expect to have the XB1 and PS4 this year do we see the machines penetrating the less intense gaming fans by then?
And, off topic, will the Vita TV be released and will it make any difference whatsoever here.
Japan seems to be seriously cooling off, at least in March, link

Retr0gamer

All games console sales seem to be cooling off in Japan. They had a really poor golden week which is pretty much the Xmas of Japan for retail. Looks like mobile will take over handhelds there.

C14N

Deleted User wrote: »

To be fair Sony have really upped their game in regards sales and it's not uncommon to find a recently released title going for dirt cheap. Steam sales are nowhere near as good as they used to be and it takes them a lot longer to drop prices which I suppose is likely down to the sales they've lost to key sites.

I will say that Sony have been fairly good in this regard, especially with PS+, although personally I prefer owning the games than paying a subscription, I'm the same with movies and music. I'm generally a pretty thrifty guy with games and while I can get some good prices on PS3 and 360, on the whole I still find PC gaming to be significantly cheaper and easier to find good price on. If I can get a fairly old or used console game for about €15 I consider that a good deal, but I wouldn't pay that on PC very often. I also kind of think that in terms of comparing shops, while a lot of console gamers will shop at Argos or Gamestop or whereever, most people who are tech-savvy enough to get themselves going with a PC will know about third party key websites and the like to buy their games.

4Dlolz

CiDeRmAn

4Dlolz wrote: »

Actually, that's pretty funny