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Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

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  • Options
    #5522
    FAILSAFE 00
    Registered Users Posts: 5,419 ✭✭✭FAILSAFE 00


    Varik wrote: »
    It is not legit, as you're purposely avoiding vat which is a criminal offence so in no way is it legit.

    Game sharing is against their TOS, and not muddy at all.

    Nope. It's not.

    Sharing your login credentials is against Xbox Live TOS.

    So I can pop round to my friends house and login without sharing my login details with him and he can access my games as well as me.

    That grey area isn't so gray anymore.

    BOOM - show me the TOS that says I cannot share my games..

    Check Mate


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    #5523
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    EoinHef wrote: »
    But by giving the system false information your are getting it to do what you want ie setting your region to one your not in?

    Did I not post screen shots of the information on my account, did you see any false information on it ?? No you didnt all Irish addresses and details.
    Otacon wrote: »
    If you bought that camera lens and shipped it to Ireland, it could also be caught by customs.

    As can my purchases on MS but revenue / customs choose or are incabable of acting upon the info. Like I said it's not just game related, its the whole software sector in general.
    Otacon wrote: »
    It is different because you are actually in the UK when you purchase those goods.

    No it's different because it's in the EU. If sterling was near parity with the Euro I can just as easily buy the games on the UK store and the VAT issue is still irrelevant.


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    #5524
    Grayditch
    Registered Users Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    Just incase you missed it FAILSAFE, we established that you can gameshare and play the same game at the same time on PS4. Just a heads up. It's not something that you have to worry about when you get a PS4, if you don't already have one.


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    #5525
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    Nope. It's not.

    Sharing your login credentials is against Xbox Live TOS.

    So I can pop round to my friends house and login without sharing my login details with him and he can access my games as well as me.

    That grey area isn't so gray anymore.

    BOOM - show me the TOS that says I cannot share my games..

    Check Mate

    In fairness it's a valid point :P:P:P:P


  • Options
    #5526
    NeitherJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭NeitherJohn


    This thread is silly.


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    #5527
    EoinHef
    Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    miju wrote: »
    Did I not post screen shots of the information on my account, did you see any false information on it ?? No you didnt all Irish addresses and details.

    You did,but your changing the region on your console to a region your not in?


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    #5528
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    miju wrote: »
    As can my purchases on MS but revenue / customs choose or are incabable of acting upon the info. Like I said it's not just game related, its the whole software sector in general.

    Just because you are getting away with it, doesn't make it any less dubious... and certainly not a 'feature'.


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    #5529
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    EoinHef wrote: »
    You did,but your changing the region on your console to a region your not in?

    Did I not post a screenshot of being able to buy from the US store also without changing my region ???

    FWIW my account on XB1 is set to US because it doesn't have Irish speech recog yet :)


  • Options
    #5530
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Otacon wrote: »
    Just because you are getting away with it, doesn't make it any less dubious... and certainly not a 'feature'.

    Well whats not a feature to you is a feature to me I'm afraid. And theres nothing dubious about it as explained. Though if you can point me in the direction of the specific part of tax / import law I'm breaking I'll agree to your point


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    #5531
    RFOLEY1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭RFOLEY1990


    have a ps4 and it's good but it's not a patch on the ps3 overall.

    Ps3 is a proper entertainment system, ps4 pretty much all you can do is play games and watch Netflix..

    updates to ps4 firmware to come, hopefully.


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    #5532
    F1ngers
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,300 Mod ✭✭✭✭F1ngers


    miju wrote: »
    Well whats not a feature to you is a feature to me I'm afraid. And theres nothing dubious about it as explained. Though if you can point me in the direction of the specific part of tax / import law I'm breaking I'll agree to your point

    Something like this?
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1882.html


  • Options
    #5533
    bugs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭bugs


    FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »
    Nope. It's not.

    Sharing your login credentials is against Xbox Live TOS.

    So I can pop round to my friends house and login without sharing my login details with him and he can access my games as well as me.

    That grey area isn't so gray anymore.

    BOOM - show me the TOS that says I cannot share my games..

    Check Mate

    This will be my only input into this thread as its both amusing and terrifying.

    Sharing your login is not exclusive to simply handing out your details, knowingly allowing someone to access your login falls under the same heading.

    The only reason i say it is because i work in computer systems validation and the wording on the terms of use of just about any and every software system will align with this.

    Edit - I immediately regret getting involved.


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    #5534
    Grayditch
    Registered Users Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭✭Grayditch


    Whoa. Remind me never to play chess against FAILSAFE!


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    #5535
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    F1ngers wrote: »
    Something like this?
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/customs/leaflets/pn1882.html

    Nope thats just importing and general advice. Nothing about software there not even in the prohibitions and restrictions addition


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    #5536
    RFOLEY1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭RFOLEY1990


    is anyone really arsed about people sharing login details being "against the law"?

    you know it's against copyright laws to borrow a dvd from someone lads, yeah?


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    #5537
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    RFOLEY1990 wrote: »
    is anyone really arsed about people sharing login details being "against the law"?

    you know it's against copyright laws to borrow a dvd from someone lads, yeah?

    Depends on its usage AFAIK
    Grayditch wrote: »
    Whoa. Remind me never to play chess against FAILSAFE!

    He is Grandmaster level 1,290,890 last time I was talking to him , BEAST :P


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    #5538
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    bugs wrote: »
    The only reason i say it is because i work in computer systems validation and the wording on the terms of use of just about any and every software system will align with this.

    Edit - I immediately regret getting involved.

    You will because now you've been challenged as I say it is incorrect.

    Gauntlet thrown prove me otherwise :D:D


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    #5539
    EoinHef
    Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    miju wrote: »
    Did I not post a screenshot of being able to buy from the US store also without changing my region ???

    FWIW my account on XB1 is set to US because it doesn't have Irish speech recog yet :)

    No you said process was to go to settings under region,change it to US but still keeping your irish profile and no need to log in again,then buy games,got that part. But you set your console to US to access market place,this is the false information im talking about.

    Now if you have it permanently set to US you would not have to do it everytime but you did it at least once?


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    #5540
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    miju wrote: »
    Nope thats just importing and general advice. Nothing about software there not even in the prohibitions and restrictions addition

    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/supply-of-services.html
    Electronically supplied services, including digitised goods delivered online and the physical supply of customised software are supplies of services for VAT purposes.
    [B]Country of establishment of supplier 	Country in which customer established 	Status of customer 	Place of supply 	Person liable to account for Irish VAT[/B]
Ireland 	Ireland 	Business or Private 	Ireland 	Supplier
Ireland 	Other EU State 	Business 	Other EU State 	No Irish VAT
Ireland 	Other EU State 	Private 	Ireland 	Supplier
Ireland 	Outside EU 	Business 	Outside EU 	No Irish VAT
Ireland 	Outside EU 	Private 	Depends on nature of the Service 	Supplier (if VAT occurs)
Other EU State 	Ireland 	Business 	Ireland 	Business Customer
Other EU State 	Ireland 	Private 	Other EU State 	No Irish VAT
Outside EU 	Ireland 	Business 	Ireland 	Business Customer
[B]Outside EU 	Ireland 	Private 	Depends on nature of the Service 	Depends on nature of the Service – if taxable in the State – the supplier[/B]

    The bottom one applies as MS pays taxes here so yes, it is not kosher.


  • Options
    #5541
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    EoinHef wrote: »
    No you said process was to go to settings under region,change it to US but still keeping your irish profile and no need to log in again,then buy games,got that part. But you set your console to US to access market place,this is the false information im talking about.

    Now if you have it permanently set to US you would not have to do it everytime but you did it at least once?

    No I use my US payment profile attached to an Irish region account. Already said why my console is on US


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    #5542
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,536 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    miju wrote: »
    I just so happen to know a decent bit about software sales (because remember a game is software) and VAT and importing. I'm not avoiding VAT no more than you buying a camera outside of the EU.

    Buying a camera outside the EU would be liable for Vat, there'd be no additional duty (as it's a camera) on it but you'd still be liable for vat on it.
    miju wrote: »
    The issue at hand is that Revenue haven't got the will / ability to police it. That is not my fault and I'm not circumventing anything in that respect.

    Sure I murdered the guy, but it's not like I tampered with evidence so I'm not circumventing anything in that respect.


  • Options
    #5543
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Otacon wrote: »
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vat/guide/supply-of-services.html

    No good that relates to services not software and not importing them only liability for VAT if getting services delivered in Ireland. As per the same doc software is only included in that if it is customised which a game is not, tax law is tricky as fook.

    edit    : i will stand corrected it's included in that list under Section 14 AND HERES THE BIG BUT the supplier is liable and must in fact register with revenue for tax liabilities not the buyer therefore no one is doing anything dodgy.

    Guess thats that argument settled, thanks :):):):)
    The Business-to-Consumer (B2C) place of supply rules for electronically supplied services provide that where a non-EU business supplies to a private consumer in any EU Member State, the place of supply is the place where the consumer normally resides. For example, if a Canadian business supplies electronic services to an Irish consumer the place of supply and therefore taxation is Ireland.

    Suppliers of these services are liable to register and account for VAT in every EU Member State where they have private customers


  • Options
    #5544
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    RFOLEY1990 wrote: »
    is anyone really arsed about people sharing login details being "against the law"?

    you know it's against copyright laws to borrow a dvd from someone lads, yeah?

    you think thats mad, I once played a dvd to a crowd in a public place, on an oil rig being used as a prison.


    I've been on the run since....


  • Options
    #5545
    bugs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭bugs


    miju wrote: »
    You will because now you've been challenged as I say it is incorrect.

    Gauntlet thrown prove me otherwise :D:D

    Taken from xbox live terms of use:
    1.9 Are there things I can’t do on the Services?
    Share your account password or otherwise authorized a third party to access or use the Services on your behalf unless we provide an approved mechanism

    Again, i regret responding, i didn't even need to edit this time, its in progress and i wish i wasn't involving myself.

    Uggghh, just to be clear, you'll find this in practically any EULA or TOS for any software. Again, regret....:(


  • Options
    #5546
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Varik wrote: »
    Buying a camera outside the EU would be liable for Vat, there'd be no additional duty (as it's a camera) on it but you'd still be liable for vat on it.

    Errrmmmmmmmmm :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: ,

    Ever bought a camera outside the EU ??? I have an I assure you it dont work like that


  • Options
    #5547
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    bugs wrote: »
    Taken from xbox live terms of use:
    1.9 Are there things I can’t do on the Services?
    Share your account password or otherwise authorized a third party to access or use the Services on your behalf unless we provide an approved mechanism

    But the approved mechanism is that I can call around to my friends house and download my gamertag there which is why you can game share in first place.

    Just saying and your involved now :)


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    #5548
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    miju wrote: »
    the supplier is liable and must in fact register with revenue for tax liabilities not the buyer therefore no one is doing anything dodgy.

    MS are registered and the XBL service runs in Ireland. If caught out, MS can always use the XBL TOU as a stick to beat you with in the courts then.


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    #5549
    Magill
    Registered Users Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    But you can do that on the PS4.... what the **** is this argument even about ?!?! AFAIK you can both account share & buy games from other regions on both systems ?

    Getting the headstaggers with the amount of circles this has gone around in the last 10 or so pages.


  • Options
    #5550
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    Otacon wrote: »
    MS are registered and the XBL service runs in Ireland. If caught out, MS can always use the XBL TOU as a stick to beat you with in the courts then.

    Well if MS ever decide to take me to court for the VAT that was liable I'll happily bang em a cheque in the post for the few bob of VAT :P:P:P:P
    Magill wrote: »
    But you can do that on the PS4.... what the **** is this argument even about ?!?! AFAIK you can both account share & buy games from other regions on both systems ?

    Getting the headstaggers with the amount of circles this has gone around in the last 10 or so pages.

    You know it's a good question somebody posted something about tomatoes being better and then someone else started talking about GM foods and well now we are here :):) with people trying to figure out / prove (and failing) how people like me are breaking VAT law


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    #5551
    EoinHef
    Registered Users Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭EoinHef


    miju wrote: »
    Why on earth would they? They are getting sales directly rather than sales going to Gamestop. And yes if MS facilitate you being able to have up to 15 different region profiles and easily being able to change region from the settings menu then yeah I'd call that a feature.

    This is your own quote from yesterday,i draw your attention to the part where it says "change region from the settings menu"?

    So your contradicting yourself......

    Once again and for the last time im gonna bother askin,backdoor much?


This discussion has been closed.
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