Playstation 4 Or Xbox One? (See mod warning in the first post)

miju

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Being a top player means jack**** in this, Gratz at making yourself look like "one of those people" though...

No being a top player means that they would have a much higher understanding of the mechanics of the game (things like bullet spread of guns while prone, crouched or standing) and the issues around them than a Level 48 / 16 would and thats not comparing e-peens that's just a simple fact. And again the game was never refunded just the premium for games which is a big difference

And FWIW I don't need to make myself look like "one of those" people, I had top 10 global ranks before I stopped playing :P:P:P:P:P:P:P But I was actually talking about the likes of EngineerXGod and so on.

I'll ask you a simple question do you know where / how the in built 120ms of lag comes from? (which used to be 250ms btw)

Evade

miju wrote: »

I'll ask you a simple question do you know where / how the in built 120ms of lag comes from? (which used to be 250ms btw)

Could you link a source for this?

ShadowHearth

miju wrote: »

No being a top player means that they would have a much higher understanding of the mechanics of the game (things like bullet spread of guns while prone, crouched or standing) and the issues around them than a Level 48 / 16 would and thats not comparing e-peens that's just a simple fact. And again the game was never refunded just the premium for games which is a big difference

And FWIW I don't need to make myself look like "one of those" people, I had top 10 global ranks before I stopped playing :P:P:P:P:P:P:P But I was actually talking about the likes of EngineerXGod and so on.

I'll ask you a simple question do you know where / how the in built 120ms of lag comes from? (which used to be 250ms btw)

Your argument looks like this:

If I go for dinner in to some restaurant as a chef, then I can order medium steak. If steak is just tiny bit overcooked I have a right to eat all steak and get a full refund. You know, because I am a chef myself I am have better knowledge about cooking and I am entitled because of that.

I won't argue about this anymore as it is pointless and went way off topic.

Otacon

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I won't argue about this anymore as it is pointless and went way off topic.

I think the reason this thread goes off-topic so often is the actual topic is done at this stage.

PS4TW! XBX sux!!1 wII U lulz!

etc.

Stone Deaf 4evr

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Your argument looks like this:

If I go for dinner in to some restaurant as a chef, then I can order medium steak. If steak is just tiny bit overcooked I have a right to eat all steak and get a full refund. You know, because I am a chef myself I am have better knowledge about cooking and I am entitled because of that.

I won't argue about this anymore as it is pointless and went way off topic.

No, its actually more like you buy a brand new car, and its the only car you have, you use it for work and use it for pleasure, but its a complete lemon, something is always breaking, and the garage promises to fix it, again and again and again. but after each fix, more problems arise. so finally you say, 'I've enough of this, give me back my money and you can have your car back'.

which is exactly whats happend. the people who paid for premium, got a refund, and access to premium was removed from them. simples.

ShadowHearth

Otacon wrote: »

I think the reason this thread goes off-topic so often is the actual topic is done at this stage.

PS4TW! XBX sux!!1 wII U lulz!

etc.

At this stage I just got myself wii u and played 4 player couch at home with friends and a good few drinks.

Crap, I am becoming one of those nintendo boys...

miju

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

No, its actually more like you buy a brand new car, and its the only car you have, you use it for work and use it for pleasure, but its a complete lemon, something is always breaking, and the garage promises to fix it, again and again and again. but after each fix, more problems arise. so finally you say, 'I've enough of this, give me back my money and you can have your car back'.

which is exactly whats happend. the people who paid for premium, got a refund, and access to premium was removed from them. simples.

Basically summed up as good as best as it could possibly be.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I won't argue about this anymore as it is pointless and went way off topic.

You wont argue it because you can't answer my simple question, thus proving my point in the first place :P:P

Grayditch

I'm not an elite player by any means, quite the opposite and I still play BF4 every now and again and it's not perfect by any means, but enough for me to get a few games, relatively trouble free.

The refunds look fairly justified for people who felt they got a broken product though, in fairness.

miju

Evade wrote: »

Could you link a source for this?

Certainly I'll post it up later once I go back through my DICE history but it's basically to do with the way the game and bullet travel "netcode" is setup and from the point of muzzle flash to bullet "leaving" gun is 120ms which used to be 250ms which is where the root of the getting shot around corners issue comes from.

That of course doesnt factor in some of the other major issues around the likes of the headshot multiplier or of the dead enemy teammate hitbox reg issues (which have been half fixed now - even though DICE say it's fully patched) either for starters.

But then of course shadowhearth i'm sure knew that and would have been able to explain it because the game is grand

miju

Grayditch wrote: »

I'm not an elite player by any means, quite the opposite and I still play BF4 every now and again and it's not perfect by any means, but enough for me to get a few games, relatively trouble free.

The refunds look fairly justified for people who felt they got a broken product though, in fairness.

Thanks, I remember trying to explain this to people before. Basically altough 500 hours seems like alot to some like shadowhearth, to "hardcore" (and I use that term loosely) or "competitive" players it's not really alot when you consider almost 870 hours was sunk into BF3 and how long it takes to get to a competitive level in a game.

Thats 500 hours of being told a patch is out , reading patch notes of things being "fixed", going to check said fix and finding the problem still there untouched and a quick visit to Battlelog shows I'm not the only one with the same issue regarding patches.

pleasant Co.

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

No, its actually more like you buy a brand new car, and its the only car you have, you use it for work and use it for pleasure, but its a complete lemon, something is always breaking, and the garage promises to fix it, again and again and again. but after each fix, more problems arise. so finally you say, 'I've enough of this, give me back my money and you can have your car back'.

which is exactly whats happend. the people who paid for premium, got a refund, and access to premium was removed from them. simples.

Analogies are almost never required in any debate, generally they're a weak attempt at proving a point when the facts of the actual argument don't suit ones position, but you sir, you nailed it, a hole in one even! :pac:

ShadowHearth

Hehe, I am loving this.

Am answer to all questions from me now.

Just because you call yourself competitive gamer does not mean ****, you are just a dude who played Bf4 more then others. That does not entitle you to use a product for 50th and then get a refund.
Bf4 Is not a perfect game and has issues. Like any game out there. If it is as broken and unplayable as you people say, then how you managed 500h in it. For most people it's a matter of few hours.

I am awaiting the same old bull**** from you guys about how competitive and how big of an experts you are. It all means jack****. You bought a product, decided to use for a very long time and then decided to get your money back. Not even the right way.

500h is a lot. No matter how stupid of an excuse you got. If you only realised after 500h it's broken and unplayable then maybe you are **** expert?

Anyway, was really fun, but I am tired of this topic. And I realised that you guys will never be wrong. Plus, you completely miss understand the concept ( or choose to) of entertainment and paying for entertainment and hide behind "competitive player" bull****.


Edit: I will actually skip this thread for today until this topic goes off and we got some more interesting debates.

Riesen_Meal

It wasn't a loophole that Miju took advantage of, its was MS policy of one refund a year, per accidental purchase....

Nothing to do with EA or any problems that existed with the game....

_Redzer_

Although it wasn't perfect, I seemed to have relatively little issues in my games.

Still, I won't be getting any battlefield games for the next few years to come. Far too overhyped IMO.

I'd love a Bad Company 3 and a 1943 remake (loved that game, was so basic and fun)

miju

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Edit: I will actually skip this thread for today until this topic goes off and we got some more interesting debates.

Thats OK I'll be waiting for you to come back to respond my points, see you tomorrow :D:D:D and when you do come back you can respond to these points if you still think your not wrong

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Just because you call yourself competitive gamer does not mean ****, you are just a dude who played Bf4 more then others. That does not entitle you to use a product for 50th and then get a refund.

Says you, others disagree and at the end of the day the refund I and others got speaks for itself :D

ShadowHearth wrote: »

If it is as broken and unplayable as you people say, then how you managed 500h in it. For most people it's a matter of few hours.

Simply by compensating for in game mechanics, you can learn all sorts of ways to work around bugs after playing for 500hrs. Doesn't mean ya should though.

ShadowHearth wrote: »

500h is a lot. No matter how stupid of an excuse you got. If you only realised after 500h it's broken and unplayable then maybe you are **** expert?

Nah I know the game fairly inside out and I'd be confident enough that anyone who has played with me before would back that up also. 500hrs just means I'm a stubborn fook, it doesnt mean the game was working

ShadowHearth wrote: »

I realised that you guys will never be wrong. Plus, you completely miss understand the concept ( or choose to) of entertainment and paying for entertainment and hide behind "competitive player" bull****.

Oh I can admit I'm wrong no problems, its you can who can't admit it. I mean you cant even see the basic differences of profiles of gamers such as casual, social, hardcore, competitive and career, says alot about you TBH.

miju

Fieldog wrote: »

It wasn't a loophole that Miju took advantage of, its was MS policy of one refund a year, per accidental purchase....

Well ya know I'll obviously bow down to your knowledge on this one buddy without any argument.

I don't know how they processed / classified the refund internally but I can tell you for sure man that I just told them I straight up wanted a refund for premium and that's what I got, the others told them the exact same for same reasons and got refunds also.

Was no cajoling of rules on customer end anyways

Riesen_Meal

miju wrote: »

Well ya know I'll obviously bow down to your knowledge on this one buddy without any argument.

I don't know how they processed / classified the refund internally but I can tell you for sure man that I just told them I straight up wanted a refund for premium and that's what I got, the others told them the exact same for same reasons and got refunds also.

Was no cajoling of rules on customer end anyways

All you have to do is wait another year, buy premium for Hardline, then call them up and tell them the cat pressed the A button and purchased it by accident...

Hey presto, free premium, ha ha

miju

Fieldog wrote: »

All you have to do is wait another year, buy premium for Hardline, then call them up and tell them the cat pressed the A button and purchased it by accident...

Hey presto, free premium, ha ha

Hah love it man I'll defo have to try that line They took premium off me but strange actually some got it taken away and others didnt even after the refund went through

kunst nugget

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Hehe, I am loving this.

Am answer to all questions from me now.

Just because you call yourself competitive gamer does not mean ****, you are just a dude who played Bf4 more then others. That does not entitle you to use a product for 50th and then get a refund.
Bf4 Is not a perfect game and has issues. Like any game out there. If it is as broken and unplayable as you people say, then how you managed 500h in it. For most people it's a matter of few hours.

I am awaiting the same old bull**** from you guys about how competitive and how big of an experts you are. It all means jack****. You bought a product, decided to use for a very long time and then decided to get your money back. Not even the right way.

500h is a lot. No matter how stupid of an excuse you got. If you only realised after 500h it's broken and unplayable then maybe you are **** expert?

Anyway, was really fun, but I am tired of this topic. And I realised that you guys will never be wrong. Plus, you completely miss understand the concept ( or choose to) of entertainment and paying for entertainment and hide behind "competitive player" bull****.


Edit: I will actually skip this thread for today until this topic goes off and we got some more interesting debates.

I don't get the problem. He thought he was entitled to a refund, MS agreed and gave it to him - does it matter how many hours he put in to it? Why does it annoy you so much that he calls himself a competitive player? He could call himself master of the universe if he wants - it's not like it's going to impact upon your life beyond you giving out about it here.

miju

kunst nugget wrote: »

I don't get the problem. He thought he was entitled to a refund, MS agreed and gave it to him - does it matter how many hours he put in to it? Why does annoy you so much that he calls himself a competitive player? He could call himself master of the universe if he wants - it's not like it's going to impact upon your life beyond you giving out about it here.

Never a truer word said

Magill

Few things, Why would anyone put in so much time into a broken game in a series that has always been terrible for competitive play? are there no decent games for playing comp on the consoles ? Don't really care much about getting a refund, **** EA, they deserve it.

Secondly, putting "Im a competitive gamer" or "I know a fella who is one of the best in the world" as a way of proving a point is getting a bit ridiculous. Being good at something does not make you an expert on the internals. I have played in teams with plently of top gamers in actual competitive games, most of whom wouldn't know what netcode is if it slapped them in the face, being completely ignorant to how the game works. Thats why you have coaches and analysts in league of legends for top teams, who are probably worse at the game than I am. Because you don't need to be good at something to understand how it works.

Anyway, can anyone thats actually been playing BF4 recently comment on whether or not its worth getting at this stage (For the PS4), need something for when im back at home and fancy a bit of headshooting and ghosts is just.... so bad.

CiDeRmAn

miju wrote: »

Oh I can admit I'm wrong no problems, its you can who can't admit it. I mean you cant even see the basic differences of profiles of gamers such as casual, social, hardcore, competitive and career, says alot about you TBH.

I can't believe this old chestnut has been dug up.
The idea that there are different strata of gamers and some opinions are more valid than others.
Not seeing such differences or rather knowing there are different people who love videogames but don't play the same things or for as long, but valuing their opinions nevertheless.

If a game is so broken you are entitled to refund, then playing it for 500hrs first is taking the Michael, end of.

Grayditch

I play it occasionally on PS4 and it seems to have a bit of lag alright. No sound and dodgy textures for the first 30 seconds of games, but ok after that. Bar the lag. It doesn't help if yer atrocious at it, like myself.

CiDeRmAn

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I can't believe this old chestnut has been dug up.
The idea that there are different strata of gamers and some opinions are more valid than others.
Not seeing such differences or rather knowing there are different people who love videogames but don't play the same things or for as long, but valuing their opinions nevertheless.

If a game is so broken you are entitled to refund, then playing it for 500hrs first is taking the Michael, end of.

Not really I can vouch for him being stubborn and finding a way to work around the issues. Doesn't mean it's not broken. People like him are the reasons fixes get applied via patch work by game developers because of this stubbornness to continue on regardless of it being broken and then reporting issues they have found.

Myself personally? I would not have the mind to continue to play a broken game but far ****s to anyone who does.

At the end of it all both of us are still entitled to a refund.

CiDeRmAn

Fair enough.
But I would suggest what people are therefore doing is beta testing, unpaid beta testing. Are such people submitting reports on the broken features as they arise? Is that a facility?
On a product that should have been finished in the first instance.

Anyway.
This is all off topic.
Wii U FTW!

miju

Magill wrote: »

Secondly, putting "Im a competitive gamer" or "I know a fella who is one of the best in the world" as a way of proving a point is getting a bit ridiculous. Being good at something does not make you an expert on the internals.

I never said it did but the point still stands that a person with more hours in a game will understand it better a point easily demonstrated by shadowhearths inability to answer a simple game related question I put to him.

Also, I never said comp players are better than social players or anything in between. The simple fact of a label is because people play games for different reasons and are labelled as such not because they are better or worse, but you read into it what you will as usual :rolleyes:

Stone Deaf 4evr

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I can't believe this old chestnut has been dug up.
The idea that there are different strata of gamers and some opinions are more valid than others.
Not seeing such differences or rather knowing there are different people who love videogames but don't play the same things or for as long, but valuing their opinions nevertheless.

If a game is so broken you are entitled to refund, then playing it for 500hrs first is taking the Michael, end of.

Ciderman, I cant figure out how to multiquotes like other are doing so I'll just respond in yours, but a few points in general.

He had just dropped 500 for a new xbox one and another 100 for battlefield 4 with premium. hardly a trivial investment by anyones standards. I was in a similar boat. If not for forza coming free, i wouldnt have been able to do any gaming at launch as battlefield decided that it would crash every time i tried to join a multiplayer match, and I couldn't play single player because my save files got deleted every time. I'm not really into racing games, but I gave forza a lot more time than I would have normally due to the fact that Battlefield was broken. Trading in the disc to gamestop was an option, but then you've taken a hit already and you still cant play the DLC without the disc.

nearly 9 months have passed and the game still has many of the problems it had at launch, yet EA/DICE have continued to roll out pay-for services such as server rental and equipment shortcut kits.

As gamers in general, across all platforms. When do we decide that enough is enough? are we expected to take what we're given and smile, regardless of the difference in quality between whats written on the back of the game box and the actual experience delivered.

In any other industry, it'd be deemed as false advertising, or selling a faulty product. for some reason, we've become more and more accepting of shoddy and incomplete games.

Even titanfall, which I'm a major fan of, seems to only now becoming a truly finished product, there is lots of new artwork and cinematics in the menus, plus customisation options etc, that really feel like they belong. The skeptic in me feels like they should have been in there from the start.

miju

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Fair enough.
But I would suggest what people are therefore doing is beta testing, unpaid beta testing. Are such people submitting reports on the broken features as they arise? Is that a facility?
On a product that should have been finished in the first instance.

Which brings me back to my original point, do you buy a game to beta test it having been told it's a final version ????

And as for the rest of your post yes there is that facility and yes they are acted upon (as in recorded). But no matter how detailed you submit the circumstances surrounding a bug they can never seem to be able to recreate them.

At the end of the day DICE and BF4 are summed up with a simple example.

A map in BF3 called Metro had many out of map glitches and out of area glitches (a few found by me) and they were patched out of the game completely eventually. All of these would have been logged, recreated and fixed glitches first time around so they knew they were there.

Then come BF4 they release Metro 2014 with ALL of the same glitches from BF3 reintroduced with some extra ones thrown in for good measure. And despite the massive amount of time XB1 had the Second Assault DLC over the PS4 they still didn't fix it come PS4 release.

Think I'll leave my point there on that game

kunst nugget

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I can't believe this old chestnut has been dug up.
The idea that there are different strata of gamers and some opinions are more valid than others.

Not seeing such differences or rather knowing there are different people who love videogames but don't play the same things or for as long, but valuing their opinions nevertheless.

That's not true though, is it. If I say, as an expert Candy Crush gamer, I believe that all Nintendo games are rubbish, you're not going to value my opinion. He might get a bit haughty with the competitive gaming thing but it makes no difference to me.

Tbf, a guy whose played hundreds of hours of a game is going to know more about a game then a guy who plays a couple of hours every week.

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

If a game is so broken you are entitled to refund, then playing it for 500hrs first is taking the Michael, end of.

But MS didn't have an issue with it so does it really matter? Lots of people do lots of different things on here that could be seen as taking the piss, like setting up US accounts. Not something that I'm bothered with but each to their own.

Magill

miju wrote: »

I never said it did but the point still stands that a person with more hours in a game will understand it better a point easily demonstrated by shadowhearths inability to answer a simple game related question I put to him.

Also, I never said comp players are better than social players or anything in between. The simple fact of a label is because people play games for different reasons and are labelled as such not because they are better or worse, but you read into it what you will as usual :rolleyes:

I've no doubt that they/you have more understanding than Shadowhearth of BF4's mechanics, i doubt hes the kind of person to get into the technical side of the game as i'm pretty sure he doesn't spend the majority of his time to a single game or two (Besides Rust and warframe !). However, im pretty sure he can tell the difference between a completely broken game and one that's playable just fine.

You've said multiple times how you are friends with some of the best players in the world (Not entirely sure how you measure that in something like BF or CoD). Anyway, its just getting annoying with your constant jabbering about it as if it makes you some kind of knowledge beast on all things related to competitive games. We get it, you love your competitive gaming, you seem to be trying really hard to support some teams and im all for that, wish there were more Irish Organisations a few years ago to support the scene. Just I don't think there are many people here that really care at all for it and so it comes across a bit lame.