Metal Gear Solid V

Robert ninja

G'way out of that! Silent Hill is better written. They're also the exact opposite in how they tell the story. MGS overexplains everything and in the end you don't know what's going on anyway even though it wants you to understand. In SH it barely explains anything but you slowly start to understand it (if you read some of the stuff you find) and it's like that on purpose.

rizzla

Kojima needs a good editor, I think when he started to put his games on the PSP he started to have to work within the restrictions of the console and it made him all the better for it.

johnny_ultimate

There's a certain irony in that as Kojima has slowly learned to prioritise game over story, there's actually indicators that he's gotten better at the latter. The opening sections of both Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain largely forego lengthy reams of exposition and clunky monologuing in favour of a 'show don't tell' approach. The fluid, atmospheric and mostly unbroken setup sequences that kick start both games play with perspective and space in ways previous games have not, while retaining mystery and ambiguity too. There's still notable pacing issues and quite significant acting problems, but they're probably the strongest story sequences Kojima has ever directed (although I also think with TPP's hospital sequence Kojima is kind of making fun of himself and playing with our expectations of what an MGS game and indeed AAA games traditionally have been). Such a shame that it mostly falls back on dull, awkwardly performed conversations at Mother Base from there on in.

It pains me to say this after the cutscene heavy stupidity of MGS4, but there's definitely been an overcorrection here. The mechanics and tools have never interacted better, with more room for experimentation. The open world allows to game to be more dynamic and surprising than it ever has been. These achievements are not to be undersold, and it's too their credit that they're satisfying enough to entertain despite the repetition elsewhere. But - and I'm only 24 hours in or so, compared to those who have finished or spent 100+ hours playing - there's simply too much flab, 'content' that fails to meaningfully advance our knowledge of the mechanics, world or story. Apart from the switch to genuinely different terrain when I unlocked the African map, it has been quite a while since the game has legitimately surprised me or offered something really new to differentiate one objective from the next. I think it's more interesting than most open worlds - as a collectible, overhearing a tape of 'Eye of the Tiger' and temporarily abandoning your objective to track it down is substantially more worthwhile than a random flag - and manages to marry all its systems together more elegantly and meaningfully than your average Ubisoft fare. But it still suffers a lot from the by now overfamiliar open world bloat, even if the various Mother Base systems give most actions more meaning. It's busywork, just with some significance for a change.

It's also a shame that the game is so very rarely about anything at all. There's interesting themes in there, like the endless, futile war all the players seem to be waging against each other, or the strange cocktail of nationalities that are having their dangerous impact on the colonised nations featured in the game. At least so far Kojima has resisted lecturing the player about these things, too. But at the same time they're often so vague as to be non-existent, and inevitably during yet another hostage rescue mission or base infiltration, it's more like the game isn't about a damn thing. Which would be fine if it didn't have intriguing pretensions elsewhere.

Links234

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Kojima is a terrible story teller though. The plot makes next to no sense. I've played all the games start to finish and still only have a rough grasp of whats going on. For a game that is relies heavily on story telling that is just not good enough.

To be fair to Kojima, he's capable of decent writing and cohesive story. Having not played any of the previous games since MGS1, I took to watching cutscenes that were edited together into 'movies' on youtube to catch up with the franchise and I'll say this, MGS3: Snake Eater was hands down the best video game I've ever watched

I think the ultimate failing of MGSV as a narrative is that it doesn't really deliver on what was promised, which was the story of how Big Boss became a villain, a story of revenge and of a man becoming a demon. We don't really get that, and a lot of the story that is downright critical to the overall franchise,

like the stuff with Zero for example

, is relatively hidden away as an optional extra. This is narrative that should have been provided in the proper context, at the proper time, given the proper weight it deserved, and not bundled in as a "Listen to this, maybe, whenever you get around to it" piece of fluff. The latter isn't a problem with Kojima being a bad writer, it's a problem with the game being in a very unfinished, cobbled together state.

I've never played a game that was so mechanically sound, so perfectly polished and had such downright incredible gameplay, but at the same time was a broken mess in story aspects. The story needs to work with the game. The "ending" just pops up at an arbitrary point, devoid of any context, reason or buildup. Why now? What reason for the reveal?

I've never simultaneously loved and hated a game this much.

Penn

Links234 wrote: »

To be fair to Kojima, he's capable of decent writing and cohesive story. Having not played any of the previous games since MGS1, I took to watching cutscenes that were edited together into 'movies' on youtube to catch up with the franchise and I'll say this, MGS3: Snake Eater was hands down the best video game I've ever watched

I think the ultimate failing of MGSV as a narrative is that it doesn't really deliver on what was promised, which was the story of how Big Boss became a villain, a story of revenge and of a man becoming a demon. We don't really get that, and a lot of the story that is downright critical to the overall franchise,

like the stuff with Zero for example

, is relatively hidden away as an optional extra. This is narrative that should have been provided in the proper context, at the proper time, given the proper weight it deserved, and not bundled in as a "Listen to this, maybe, whenever you get around to it" piece of fluff. The latter isn't a problem with Kojima being a bad writer, it's a problem with the game being in a very unfinished, cobbled together state.

I've never played a game that was so mechanically sound, so perfectly polished and had such downright incredible gameplay, but at the same time was a broken mess in story aspects. The story needs to work with the game. The "ending" just pops up at an arbitrary point, devoid of any context, reason or buildup. Why now? What reason for the reveal?

I've never simultaneously loved and hated a game this much.

Yeah, it's hard not to agree. Gameplay is beyond fantastic, it's an absolute joy to play. But the game is just chockablock with missed opportunities, missing content, and what's worse, missing story pieces.

Ocelot became Captain Exposition.
Miller is half ball of rage, half shocked in amazement of Snake doing things Snake is supposed to do.
Mother Base should have been a hive of activity and interaction, but is instead the world's largest and most expensive shower.
Eli's part in the game was over way too quickly

(as evident by the true Kingdom of the Flies ending)

Psycho Mantis was just used by everyone, had no character of his own.

Skull Face was just discarded. He never seemed like any sort of threat at all.
Volgin was reduced to FrankenFire, again had no character of his own.
Code Talker seemed like he could be interesting but his only purpose seemed to be explaining sh*t on tapes.

The ACC is just unnecessary.
You're able to (and encouraged) to visit Huey building Battle Gear, a tank you can't even use in the game

And to top it all off, regarding the ending,

makes you replay almost the entire first mission again (why the almighty f*ck?), then it's just VS listening to a tape while looking in the mirror. Why couldn't we have gotten a face to face between BB and VS? I genuinely don't mind the twist, but it was presented in such a crap way.

That being said, there was one huge positive with regards the story and the MGS saga overall that I was very happy with.

The Boss' goal, which started the entire saga, was to essentially leave things as they are. Not to try and change things, but just to leave the world as it is. Big Boss, Zero, Skull Face, Liquid, Solidus, and even Ocelot, all trying in different ways to make The Boss' will come true, but all of them misunderstood it. It was Solid Snake, the only one of them who wasn't trying to do it, who actually did it. Even the organisation he and Hal set up, Philanthropy, had the tagline "To let the world be". They made The Boss' will come true. I like the notion of that and it really does finish the story of the series off well in that regard.

Evade

Penn wrote: »

Miller is half ball of rage, half shocked in amazement of Snake doing things Snake is supposed to do.

He knows your not the real Big Boss doesn't he? I thought Miller constantly barking orders Big Boss during the missions was a little odd for a subordinate until the reveal that you're not Big Boss you're, technically, one of Miller's old subordinates.

LuckyFinigan

Penn wrote: »

Yeah, it's hard not to agree. Gameplay is beyond fantastic, it's an absolute joy to play. But the game is just chockablock with missed opportunities, missing content, and what's worse, missing story pieces.

Ocelot became Captain Exposition.
Miller is half ball of rage, half shocked in amazement of Snake doing things Snake is supposed to do.
Mother Base should have been a hive of activity and interaction, but is instead the world's largest and most expensive shower.
Eli's part in the game was over way too quickly

(as evident by the true Kingdom of the Flies ending)

Psycho Mantis was just used by everyone, had no character of his own.

Skull Face was just discarded. He never seemed like any sort of threat at all.
Volgin was reduced to FrankenFire, again had no character of his own.
Code Talker seemed like he could be interesting but his only purpose seemed to be explaining sh*t on tapes.

The ACC is just unnecessary.
You're able to (and encouraged) to visit Huey building Battle Gear, a tank you can't even use in the game

And to top it all off, regarding the ending,

makes you replay almost the entire first mission again (why the almighty f*ck?), then it's just VS listening to a tape while looking in the mirror. Why couldn't we have gotten a face to face between BB and VS? I genuinely don't mind the twist, but it was presented in such a crap way.

That being said, there was one huge positive with regards the story and the MGS saga overall that I was very happy with.

The Boss' goal, which started the entire saga, was to essentially leave things as they are. Not to try and change things, but just to leave the world as it is. Big Boss, Zero, Skull Face, Liquid, Solidus, and even Ocelot, all trying in different ways to make The Boss' will come true, but all of them misunderstood it. It was Solid Snake, the only one of them who wasn't trying to do it, who actually did it. Even the organisation he and Hal set up, Philanthropy, had the tagline "To let the world be". They made The Boss' will come true. I like the notion of that and it really does finish the story of the series off well in that regard.

Finished it last night and I pretty much agree with all of this,

The fact that they never finished and included the mission where you go after Eli and Sahelanthropus is beyond a joke seems a pretty essential part of the story tbh.

Penn

Evade wrote: »

He knows your not the real Big Boss doesn't he? I thought Miller constantly barking orders Big Boss during the missions was a little odd for a subordinate until the reveal that you're not Big Boss you're, technically, one of Miller's old subordinates.

Yeah but even taking that into consideration:
You've destroyed their anti-air radar? It wasn't one of the targets, but that'll put a ho-
YES KAZ! I KNOW! THAT'S WHY I DID IT! SAME REASON I'VE DONE IT AT THE LAST 15 OUTPOSTS!

He's coming too?
Yes Kaz. He is. He's ranked S in every category. His abilities are higher than yours. Yes, I am taking him with me, and I'm going to mod the game to replace you with him. You're going in the brig.

tok9

Evade wrote: »

He knows your not the real Big Boss doesn't he? I thought Miller constantly barking orders Big Boss during the missions was a little odd for a subordinate until the reveal that you're not Big Boss you're, technically, one of Miller's old subordinates.

I'm pretty sure that conversation is sometime after the events of MGS:V

SouthTippBass

Only have two missions left, 50 and 51, then its all over for me. Gotta say, Im just a tad disappointed overall. The engine is fantastic, so are the graphics and the core gameplay. But the story is not what I wanted at all, I wanted to see Big Boss become the villain, as was advertised. And the story they did tell wasn't done very well.

I must also say, I don't think there is a single area in the game that can compete with the level design found in Ground Zeros. I would have much preferred the smaller, more focused areas like GZ where every inch of it has propose and is interesting to explore. Rather than the vast wasteland of nothing we have in PP.

Oh look, another outpost with a tent, table, tower, toilet, red barrel and four soldiers, how interesting.

Mother base has NOTHING on it to do. Nothing. Why does it even exist? So I can take a shower? I kept returning there at the start thinking, oh yeah something definitely has developed now that I can interact with. Didn't happen.

I still enjoyed it a lot, but it was just a mess by the time I reached the end. Most everything for mission 30 onwards was just disappointment.

Stick your 150 side ops up your arse Kojima.

8/10

Jordan 199

Managed to fulton a truck with the driver inside

Evade

SouthTippBass wrote: »

Mother base has NOTHING on it to do. Nothing. Why does it even exist? So I can take a shower? I kept returning there at the start thinking, oh yeah something definitely has developed now that I can interact with. Didn't happen.

Have you been to door with the blue light above it on the top balcony of the medical wing?

Witcher

I've noticed people saying we didn't see BB turn evil in this game..

.we saw him take away a man's life, his whole identity and then use him for his own ends.

Ocelot comments on Skull Face's past saying: 'His country, his family, his face, his identity, everything was stolen from him.' Is what BB did any better?

Xenji

faceman wrote: »

This. Completely agree. Silent Hill is the same with more bad twists than an M. Night Shylamanamadingdong movie.

Although I like the games.

Keiichiro Toyama created, wrote and directed the original Silent Hill, Kojima had no involvement in any of them, well except for the cancelled Silent Hills.

tok9

Ya I think some people might be thinking they are the good guy just because they play the main character of the game.

Not even looking at the main story, you are extracting soldiers, prisoners, children against their will and then holding them hostage until they are willing to work for you.

On top of that yo are constantly causing skirmishes and battles with other countries/mercenaries creating this constant war which is why at the beginning of the game we get that cutscene that starts out something like

"Another war in Outer Heaven"

That isn't even including what was mentioned in the post above.

Genghiz Cohen

tok9 wrote: »

Ya I think some people might be thinking they are the good guy just because they play the main character of the game.

Not even looking at the main story, you are extracting soldiers, prisoners, children against their will and then holding them hostage until they are willing to work for you.

On top of that yo are constantly causing skirmishes and battles with other countries/mercenaries creating this constant war which is why at the beginning of the game we get that cutscene that starts out something like

"Another war in Outer Heaven"

That isn't even including what was mentioned in the post above.

Plus, in the original Metal Gear's and Metal Gear Solid; Who is it that is telling you that Big Boss is the 'Bad Guy'?

It's Cypher, so of course Big Boss is going to be painted as the villain.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Wasn't bothered completing the remixed missions so I read the actual ending. Obvious massive spoilers are obvious

What a load of ****e. I mean for **** sake. The whole time not even playing as Big Boss, one of the main draws of the game for series long fans. What was the point in the cloning in the first place if you could just hypnotize some random medic and turn him into big boss. Why not just do that with all the soldiers. Kojima again trying to be clever but just comes off looking like a tosser.

TheZPPanda

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Wasn't bothered completing the remixed missions so I read the actual ending. Obvious massive spoilers are obvious

What a load of ****e. I mean for **** sake. The whole time not even playing as Big Boss, one of the main draws of the game for series long fans. What was the point in the cloning in the first place if you could just hypnotize some random medic and turn him into big boss. Why not just do that with all the soldiers. Kojima again trying to be clever but just comes off looking like a tosser.

You don't actually have to play the remix missions to get the true ending. You can progress by playing the Side Ops and listening to the Casette Tapes marked yellow as well as new missions as they pop up.

DeSelby83

Is MGO unlocked today?

Evade

DeSelby83 wrote: »

Is MGO unlocked today?

The 6th.

Det Somerset

Ok so despite only getting as far as Mission 12 and about 50 side ops I'm done with the game and I'll be trading it in while the value is still high. This isn't a 'rage quit' post, it's merely conceding that the game just isn't for me. I can see the reasons why others really love the game and I'm happy it's worked out for them, but I only get to play for a couple of hours at a time a few times a week and what I've experienced so far just isn't enjoyable in those chunks.

Ultimately I'm finding it a repetitive grind. Get on a heli, reach the drop point, travel by horse along a fairly set path, come across an outpost, sneak up to and tranq / knock out 3 or 4 soldiers in order to fulton them out, continue along the path to the main base of the mission, tranq / knock out a larger number of soldiers in order to fulton them out and complete the main objective (extraction, elimination etc). There are obviously slight variations but that's essentially how every game session feels to me. In other games, 'side ops' are entirely optional but it seems here you have to do them or you'll struggle with progression. Not only do the terrain and the camps of each sortie look identical, in some cases they actually are identical as you are literally playing through all the same locations every now and again.

For me, when I sit down to play a game I want to feel like I am progressing through the game whether it's advancing the plot, reaching a new location or completing a level/objective that I don't have worry about again but with MGSV the opposite is true. I've frequently felt like I've been replaying a previous session and every indication from this thread suggests that feeling isn't going to change and towards the end it gets worse when you actually ARE replaying missions you have previously completed.

As for Motherbase, the time and effort needed to build it (and it's not an optional game mechanic you can ignore if you want to progress) is not worth it in my opinion. In previous MGS games I liked to sneak past enemies as my primary tactic, now I have tranq or knock them out because I need to fulton staff for Motherbase. For a game that is being lauded for the freedom of choice of gameplay I find it quite restrictive in that sense. If I choose to stealth past enemies, I struggle to build Motherbase, if I ignore building Motherbase (which would be my choice if I had one) I can't progress in the game.

What I will say is I'm getting out with my sanity intact and that's mainly with thanks to the discussions in this thread. If I wasn't reading it, I'd be persevering with the blind belief that the game is going to improve and take off and be worth my effort, but even those who love the game seem to concede that the game doesn't significantly change from what I've played so far. At least now I can cut my losses and move on to something that suits my preferences better.

So Adios Amigos and hope you continue to enjoy the game

faceman

Det Somerset wrote: »

Ok so despite only getting as far as Mission 12 and about 50 side ops I'm done with the game and I'll be trading it in while the value is still high. This isn't a 'rage quit' post, it's merely conceding that the game just isn't for me. I can see the reasons why others really love the game and I'm happy it's worked out for them, but I only get to play for a couple of hours at a time a few times a week and what I've experienced so far just isn't enjoyable in those chunks.

Ultimately I'm finding it a repetitive grind. Get on a heli, reach the drop point, travel by horse along a fairly set path, come across an outpost, sneak up to and tranq / knock out 3 or 4 soldiers in order to fulton them out, continue along the path to the main base of the mission, tranq / knock out a larger number of soldiers in order to fulton them out and complete the main objective (extraction, elimination etc). There are obviously slight variations but that's essentially how every game session feels to me. In other games, 'side ops' are entirely optional but it seems here you have to do them or you'll struggle with progression. Not only do the terrain and the camps of each sortie look identical, in some cases they actually are identical as you are literally playing through all the same locations every now and again.

For me, when I sit down to play a game I want to feel like I am progressing through the game whether it's advancing the plot, reaching a new location or completing a level/objective that I don't have worry about again but with MGSV the opposite is true. I've frequently felt like I've been replaying a previous session and every indication from this thread suggests that feeling isn't going to change and towards the end it gets worse when you actually ARE replaying missions you have previously completed.

As for Motherbase, the time and effort needed to build it (and it's not an optional game mechanic you can ignore if you want to progress) is not worth it in my opinion. In previous MGS games I liked to sneak past enemies as my primary tactic, now I have tranq or knock them out because I need to fulton staff for Motherbase. For a game that is being lauded for the freedom of choice of gameplay I find it quite restrictive in that sense. If I choose to stealth past enemies, I struggle to build Motherbase, if I ignore building Motherbase (which would be my choice if I had one) I can't progress in the game.

What I will say is I'm getting out with my sanity intact and that's mainly with thanks to the discussions in this thread. If I wasn't reading it, I'd be persevering with the blind belief that the game is going to improve and take off and be worth my effort, but even those who love the game seem to concede that the game doesn't significantly change from what I've played so far. At least now I can cut my losses and move on to something that suits my preferences better.

So Adios Amigos and hope you continue to enjoy the game

Fair points all the same. It's interesting how gamers expectations are so different. The more I read people's views on this game I wonder if opinions would be different if this was not an MGS game.

Unrelated, anyway like me and always gunning the communication satellites? I've completed missions but stuck around to try destroy the satellites only to get killed in the process! (They seem to regenerate too)

Captain Chaos

The communications dishes are repaired after you do 3 main story missions, same with supply containers. I farm the supply containers from the airport in Africa by going back and doing 3 short easy main missions and then free roam back to the airport for supplies.

bunnyarmstrong

Det Somerset wrote: »

Ok so despite only getting as far as Mission 12 and about 50 side ops I'm done with the game and I'll be trading it in while the value is still high. This isn't a 'rage quit' post, it's merely conceding that the game just isn't for me. I can see the reasons why others really love the game and I'm happy it's worked out for them, but I only get to play for a couple of hours at a time a few times a week and what I've experienced so far just isn't enjoyable in those chunks.

Ultimately I'm finding it a repetitive grind. Get on a heli, reach the drop point, travel by horse along a fairly set path, come across an outpost, sneak up to and tranq / knock out 3 or 4 soldiers in order to fulton them out, continue along the path to the main base of the mission, tranq / knock out a larger number of soldiers in order to fulton them out and complete the main objective (extraction, elimination etc). There are obviously slight variations but that's essentially how every game session feels to me. In other games, 'side ops' are entirely optional but it seems here you have to do them or you'll struggle with progression. Not only do the terrain and the camps of each sortie look identical, in some cases they actually are identical as you are literally playing through all the same locations every now and again.

For me, when I sit down to play a game I want to feel like I am progressing through the game whether it's advancing the plot, reaching a new location or completing a level/objective that I don't have worry about again but with MGSV the opposite is true. I've frequently felt like I've been replaying a previous session and every indication from this thread suggests that feeling isn't going to change and towards the end it gets worse when you actually ARE replaying missions you have previously completed.

As for Motherbase, the time and effort needed to build it (and it's not an optional game mechanic you can ignore if you want to progress) is not worth it in my opinion. In previous MGS games I liked to sneak past enemies as my primary tactic, now I have tranq or knock them out because I need to fulton staff for Motherbase. For a game that is being lauded for the freedom of choice of gameplay I find it quite restrictive in that sense. If I choose to stealth past enemies, I struggle to build Motherbase, if I ignore building Motherbase (which would be my choice if I had one) I can't progress in the game.

What I will say is I'm getting out with my sanity intact and that's mainly with thanks to the discussions in this thread. If I wasn't reading it, I'd be persevering with the blind belief that the game is going to improve and take off and be worth my effort, but even those who love the game seem to concede that the game doesn't significantly change from what I've played so far. At least now I can cut my losses and move on to something that suits my preferences better.

So Adios Amigos and hope you continue to enjoy the game

Cheers, basically my feelings on it too. I can see the appeal, but just not for me.

ziggyman17

bunnyarmstrong wrote: »

Cheers, basically my feelings on it too. I can see the appeal, but just not for me.

Feel the same too.. hoping that online will good when released next Tuesday..

weiland79

Whats up with the side ops that have a tick beside them but are still highlighted?

sticker

Hi all

I have beaten mission 13 and opened up side op 107 and successfully got the gunsmith.

But the follow-up missions on side ups for 108 and 109 are not appearing from me to complete it fully...

anybody know why? Thanks!

Penn

weiland79 wrote: »

Whats up with the side ops that have a tick beside them but are still highlighted?

I think it just means you can replay them.

Penn

sticker wrote: »

Hi all

I have beaten mission 13 and opened up side op 107 and successfully got the gunsmith.

But the follow-up missions on side ups for 108 and 109 are not appearing from me to complete it fully...

anybody know why? Thanks!

You might need to do a few of the other side missions first such as prisoner extraction of highly skilled soldier. Side ops take place in the same locations. Sometimes you need to do a side op in one location to unlock a different type of side op that takes place in the same location.

Or you might just need to do a main mission or two first.

sticker

Penn wrote: »

You might need to do a few of the other side missions first such as prisoner extraction of highly skilled soldier. Side ops take place in the same locations. Sometimes you need to do a side op in one location to unlock a different type of side op that takes place in the same location.

Or you might just need to do a main mission or two first.

Ok cheers