Graduate Programme - PwC or Deloitte (Audit) 2013

CommerceKid

Having applied to both firms within their auditing department in Dublin, both offered me a position at their firm. This means I would begin working in September/ October 2014.

I have no definite favourite and would like to know how others would choose? If you can talk from past experiences or clear advantages like training, facilities & conditions I would love to know.

Which firm should I choose and why?

infostrides

Congrats on the offer. When were you interviewed?

CommerceKid

Thanks, I was interviewed on the 30th and 31st of October. PwC offered me the position that very day whereas Deloitte waited until after the weekend.

Have you any experience at the 2 firms?

infostrides

Thanks for the reply. I also attended Deloitte interview for Enterprise Risk Services (ERS) on 31st October but have not heard anything from the company.

Any hint on that?

Aine20

In kind of the same boat Inwas offered Deloitte and KPMG in Dublin and pwc in their regional office and im very unsure of where to pick
Goodluck with ur decision

moleary20

What kind of info are you looking for to help make yer decisions?

CommerceKid

infostrides wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. I also attended Deloitte interview for Enterprise Risk Services (ERS) on 31st October but have not heard anything from the company.

Any hint on that?

Not sure about ERS at all to be honest. I know one of my friends was called by KPMG for a role in consulting alright last week, but their deadline for applications was actually a week earlier than any other firm so maybe they could be getting on to ye this week?

moleary20 wrote: »

What kind of info are you looking for to help make yer decisions?

I'd just like to know what peoples experiences of the 2 firms are? I've read all the information their is out there on the firms but I think nothing compares to first hand experiences as to the support and atmosphere there is at the firms.

Beflan

I'd personally go for Deloitte. It was a close call though. What made up my mind was the Great Places to Work accolade in that people in there voted on whether it was a nice place to work, so not an accolodae you can buy and none of the other 4 had it.

I also heard recently that Deloitte won the AIB audit from PWC so maybe thats an indication of something. The guy in EY also said that had won some recent audits from PWC but never got any more info, so not sure if that is some indication of which firms are growing so hence have beter opportunitities.

The only thing that PWC won out on in my mind was the office but then I'm going for audit and I'll never be there, plus its a bit off the beaten track for me.

CommerceKid

Beflan wrote: »

I'd personally go for Deloitte. It was a close call though. What made up my mind was the Great Places to Work accolade in that people in there voted on whether it was a nice place to work, so not an accolodae you can buy and none of the other 4 had it.

I also heard recently that Deloitte won the AIB audit from PWC so maybe thats an indication of something. The guy in EY also said that had won some recent audits from PWC but never got any more info, so not sure if that is some indication of which firms are growing so hence have beter opportunitities.

The only thing that PWC won out on in my mind was the office but then I'm going for audit and I'll never be there, plus its a bit off the beaten track for me.

Yes the awards deloitte hold definitely make it more appealing than the rest, however in my PwC contract they have definitely received their fair share of awards, but yes I agree about the best place to work award... its a great motivator to pick deloitte.

In terms of the AIB audit, they actually won that from KPMG. I know because I researched this before my deloitte interview and my friend works in KPMG and I confirmed it with him before my interview.

I hadn't heard of the whole EY situation really in terms of taking their clients so I cannot comment on that.

Finally, yes the offices are amazing to be honest, but as you said I don't want that to be one of the reasons to work their because as you said we would be on audits out of office a lot.

I just have one question... I specified to work in the I&DB section of pwc and the CTB section in deloitte but they said this decision is made after and closer to your starting date.

How likely is it that I will get these sections and would deloitte or pwc be more accommodating in terms of this decision?

Beflan

Doh! Your research was evidently beter than mine. I thought it was PWC they won it off.

I think we are all in the same boat and will take into acocunt the different factors. Sometimes it can come down to who you meet. From example, I found EY completely offputting based on the people I met and to a lesser extent KPMG, while my Deloitte interaction at university, the presentation and interviews were all positive.

I'm going CTB as well. I did ask the question in the interview and on the Deloitte form, they mark a preference as I could see the interviewier filling it in.

ah yeah

I completed my training with pwc and also have a few friends who trained with deloitte. Based on my experience I would go with deloitte.

Not that there's anything actually wrong with pwc. Deloitte always seemed to treat staff better.

CommerceKid

ah yeah wrote: »

I completed my training with pwc and also have a few friends who trained with deloitte. Based on my experience I would go with deloitte.

Not that there's anything actually wrong with pwc. Deloitte always seemed to treat staff better.

I think PwC is where I want to go. I was looking at this:http://www.top1000.ie/auditors and it just seems that pwc have a much bigger auditing department and clients that align with my interests in the biz world.

Beflan

What interested me about Deloitte was not just their audit fucntion but the fact they played very much into the fact they do more advisory work than the others and I would think that is more interesting that pure audit.

I think if you are going for who has the largest audit base, its one of the big two, but it apears when its not audit, most of the bigger comapnies seem to go with Deloitte. The senior manager who interviewed me in Deloitte was speaking about the work they do with Greencore, advising them around tax accounintg, yet KPMG are the auditors. I'm thinking the opportunity to do more than just audits is appealing. But thats just me.

CommerceKid

Really Interesting point!

I did read that point where they go further than an audit in terms of offering advice etc.
However, when I was in my PwC interview they asked me what is auditing? And I responded with the general response and said that companies also offer advice in terms of future growth and projections and I said that this is perhaps for more of a senior role.

The partner than said, why would you think only a senior can offer advice, if I see something wrong, or I believe that something can be done differently I must speak up and offer my opinion so I definitely believe they all offer more than just an audit of the accounts.

I haven't really tracked the size of the firms to which the big four audit and cannot comment on the fact that you believe deloitte audit higher profile clients. I know from talking to employees that Topaz is a big audit that they would work on all year round and they recently won the AIB banking audit from KPMG this year which is huge for them.

Aine20

Anyone have any idea of week numbers of study leave from deloitte? Pwc specify the days but Deloitte dont in their contract? They just say the recommended

CommerceKid

When attending a Deloitte talk they breifly touched on the topic and said its flexy... they said you can choose to add days and reduce days depending on your situation.

I'm not 100% on this but it did seem less structured and more based on the individual.

I feel deloitte in general don't really set out much in terms of this relevant information that us graduates need. Does anyone else get that impression? I wanted a booklet with everything stated in it just like I got with PwC.

Sorry went a bit off topic above.

Aine20

CommerceKid wrote: »

When attending a Deloitte talk they breifly touched on the topic and said its flexy... they said you can choose to add days and reduce days depending on your situation.

I'm not 100% on this but it did seem less structured and more based on the individual.

I feel deloitte in general don't really set out much in terms of this relevant information that us graduates need. Does anyone else get that impression? I wanted a booklet with everything stated in it just like I got with PwC.

Sorry went a bit off topic above.

Completely agree with you here im my opinion wouldnt everyone want as much study time as possible as your getting paid anyway? I really like deloitte but this is putting me off if I womt have as much study leave as the others

Beflan

From speaking to the people at the various firms, you will get your Institute allowed days and then for PWC, Deloitte and KPMG, you will work your overtime and be able to take this time off or it gets paid to you either, which is where the flexible bit comes in and it seems to apply to all 3 of the firms. EY were different in that I think they do not accrue overtime. I could be wrong on this but from recollection, they said something about not accruing overtime.

blackwhite

Beflan wrote: »

What interested me about Deloitte was not just their audit fucntion but the fact they played very much into the fact they do more advisory work than the others and I would think that is more interesting that pure audit.

I think if you are going for who has the largest audit base, its one of the big two, but it apears when its not audit, most of the bigger comapnies seem to go with Deloitte. The senior manager who interviewed me in Deloitte was speaking about the work they do with Greencore, advising them around tax accounintg, yet KPMG are the auditors. I'm thinking the opportunity to do more than just audits is appealing. But thats just me.

If you are being recruited by the audit department, then your training contract will be spent primarily working on audits.
If you are being recruited by the advisory department then your training contract will be primarily doing advisory work.
In any of the big 4 it's unusual to get much, if any, work outside of your service line until you are qualified.

Also, most listed companies are prohibited by their audit committees from giving a very much "non-audit" work to their auditors. It's thought thought that large non-audit fees (and the potential of winning more) could potentially impinge on the perception of audit independence.

In my business PwC are currently our auditors. They also do our tax compliance.
All of our tax planning/structuring, due dilligence work, special accounting projects, etc are farmed out across the other three firms.

Aine20

Just heard back from Deloitte and was told that study lrave is 35 and 38 days for cap2 and FAEs and then you work up any more from overtime but the pwc book says 50 and 69 days and doesnt mention that it includes overtime? Confused as to how deloitte can offer so much less.. My kmpg offer has 55 and 60 days for the two..

Beflan

Beflan wrote: »

What interested me about Deloitte was not just their audit fucntion but the fact they played very much into the fact they do more advisory work than the others and I would think that is more interesting that pure audit. ... I'm thinking the opportunity to do more than just audits is appealing. But thats just me.

If you are hired as a trainee auditor you will be auditing. The advisory idea is used as a hook. You might get some exposure if there is a big insolvency and they need extra heads but that wouldn't be standard.

The ratio of audit partners to tax partners to advisory partners in PWC as an example is 44:36:16

Disclaimer: I didn't train as an auditor or in practice and if an audit trainee gave me advice I would most likely politely smile, nod and ignore.