Is it difficult not to christen a baby?

Neyite

We baptised primarily because of schools, but also to appease grandparents. I regret it now and would cheerfully do school runs for hours if I could go back in time and decide not to baptise my child.

whatdoicare

We're right in the middle of a family religious sh*tstorm - we don't want to Baptise, we have our educate together place held since herself was a week old but my absolute dragon of a mother is creating such hullaballoo amongst my family that it's getting to the point where we have to choose between going ahead with it or noone in my family talking to us again.

I feel absolutely betrayed by my family and sick to my stomach about being bullied into baptising my baby.

liliq

whatdoicare wrote: »

We're right in the middle of a family religious sh*tstorm - we don't want to Baptise, we have our educate together place held since herself was a week old but my absolute dragon of a mother is creating such hullaballoo amongst my family that it's getting to the point where we have to choose between going ahead with it or noone in my family talking to us again.

I feel absolutely betrayed by my family and sick to my stomach about being bullied into baptising my baby.

That is sh1t

Neyite

whatdoicare wrote: »

We're right in the middle of a family religious sh*tstorm - we don't want to Baptise, we have our educate together place held since herself was a week old but my absolute dragon of a mother is creating such hullaballoo amongst my family that it's getting to the point where we have to choose between going ahead with it or noone in my family talking to us again.

I feel absolutely betrayed by my family and sick to my stomach about being bullied into baptising my baby.

Thats what I knew I would face. And I caved. Now we are facing it because we are engaged and briefly toyed with the idea of a civil service, and it appears we have pissed my mother in law off greatly by not being a good god-fearing catholic girlie. And she has decided to blame me for her son being a heathen, despite the fact he refused to go to mass since his teens, living under her roof. But no, must be me with my evil ways giving him these notions. :rolleyes:
Christmas should be interesting...

whatdoicare

Neyite wrote: »

Thats what I knew I would face. And I caved. Now we are facing it because we are engaged and briefly toyed with the idea of a civil service, and it appears we have pissed my mother in law off greatly by not being a good god-fearing catholic girlie. And she has decided to blame me for her son being a heathen, despite the fact he refused to go to mass since his teens, living under her roof. But no, must be me with my evil ways giving him these notions. :rolleyes:
Christmas should be interesting...

Haha my mother blames my husband (we didn't get married in a church - that was a whole different sh*tstorm with my mam refusing to come until the last second - then ironically taking all the credit for all my hard work.) She refuses to believe that I might have had a brain of my own all along.

iguana

Why is your mother so worried about it?

wmpdd3

I didn't baptise either of my children, they are probably the first kids in either of their families not to be.

After the first 6 months everybody forgets that they ate not baptised.

my partner and I were adamant they would not be baptised but I have no problem if they want to later.

I enrolled them in the local school no problem. I went there and it is less than 100 meters away.

I was 6 the first time I refused to go to mass and I never went back. Even my school accepted and I didn't do religion.

I work with the priest often in the community and he knows my views.

TomoBhoy

whatdoicare wrote: »

We're right in the middle of a family religious sh*tstorm - we don't want to Baptise, we have our educate together place held since herself was a week old but my absolute dragon of a mother is creating such hullaballoo amongst my family that it's getting to the point where we have to choose between going ahead with it or noone in my family talking to us again.

I feel absolutely betrayed by my family and sick to my stomach about being bullied into baptising my baby.

I had a ****storm when my eldest didn't make her communion with my mother, I explained slowly why we choose not to and told her basically its none of her business and basically we're not catholics.

ncmc

Thanks for all the great replies. I didn't expect so many measured replies or so many people who had the same worries when I posted my OP. I feel a lot more confident about my decision not to christen the baby now. I know both sets of parents will be upset, but sometimes you just have to do what you believe is right and explain that you are not taking the decision lightly. Hopefully my parents will understand in time. I think I will still teach my child about God, the nativity etc as well as other religions. I would describe myself as doubtful about the existense of a higher power, but would like my child to grow up knowing the basic tenets of religion and then they can make an informed decision when they are older.

whatdoIcare, I feel awful for you that you are in such an awkward position. Only you know your own circumstances, but is it possible that your mother might fuss and bluster but will come round in the end like she did with the wedding? Surely she wouldn't cut off her own grandchild over something like this? I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do.

whatdoicare

ncmc wrote: »

whatdoIcare, I feel awful for you that you are in such an awkward position. Only you know your own circumstances, but is it possible that your mother might fuss and bluster but will come round in the end like she did with the wedding? Surely she wouldn't cut off her own grandchild over something like this? I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do.

She never came around about the wedding at all - she still calls me by my maiden name and tells me what a sham it was. That was 4 years ago. She would happily cut me out as she knows I love my family and it would kill me and them and theyd all be up to me arguing her case. Shes one of those angel believers. The rage about it all is driving me mad. Things will never be the same with me and my family again because of this ****e!:(

pwurple

whatdoicare wrote: »

She never came around about the wedding at all - she still calls me by my maiden name and tells me what a sham it was. That was 4 years ago. She would happily cut me out as she knows I love my family and it would kill me and them and theyd all be up to me arguing her case. Shes one of those angel believers. The rage about it all is driving me mad. Things will never be the same with me and my family again because of this ****e!:(

I wonder if she would listen to a priest on that? My dad went a bit nuts about our wedding... It was not in a church, was outdoors, had no communion etc. He didn't think it was a real wedding/marriage until I spoke to his local PP and asked him to have a chat about it with my dad. No priest advises people to cut off their family over this kind of thing. They might help your situation.

I know asking a priest for assistance is possibly a leap for someone who has rejected the whole thing, but you could think of it as talking to her supervisor.

eviltwin

whatdoicare wrote: »

She never came around about the wedding at all - she still calls me by my maiden name and tells me what a sham it was. That was 4 years ago. She would happily cut me out as she knows I love my family and it would kill me and them and theyd all be up to me arguing her case. Shes one of those angel believers. The rage about it all is driving me mad. Things will never be the same with me and my family again because of this ****e!:(

I hear ya, my relationship with my parent has basically ended over religion, we haven't spoken in years and she hasn't seen my youngest child. She won't either. Personally I'm okay with that because I have a lot of issues with her but I see her doing it to my brother just because he had a civil marriage and it kills him. God love him, he and his wife recently told us they are unable to have children which is very hard for them as they always wanted a family and she thinks its great. Its hard for them, I mean how do you explain to people why you no longer speak to your own mother. Its crazy. I only your mother can see the error of her ways, she's hurting herself as much as you.

Morag

Family will get over it, I faced a fair amount of opposition when I didn't get mine babtised 15 and 13 years ago.
They all got over it and came to the children's first birthdays.

wmpdd3

^^^did you encounter any other issues at all?

Morag

We had issues when they were in primary school, of teachers assuming they were christian, and a little bit of bullying in my daughters case when 1st communion came around but we handled it. It is more the norm now days then it was 11 years ago when my eldest started primary school.

FreshKnickers

I just want to say to you, fair play OP. So many people seem to have their child baptised just because it's 'the done thing' with little to no interest in the child's spiritual upbringing.

I don't want to offend any parents here, obviously what you do (or don't do) with your own child/ren is your own business but I don't agree with the theory of it 'just being a drop of water on the child's head' for a few reasons, two of which I would consider important. First of all, when you baptise your child you are required to stand up in a church and agree to raise that child in a certain faith. If you aren't planning to actually do that, then it is wrong. Maybe people disagree with that but paying lip serice to any religion isn't a good thing to be doing.

Secondly, this may be a bit 'conspiracy theory' for some, but when the babies get baptised there is a record made and the clergy then claim there are X number of Catholics in the country when the amount of practising Catholics is a fraction of that number. In the last few years there have been less babies being baptised due in the most part to an influx of people of different religions and also due to people who have decided not to baptise their babies 'just because' and this has lessened the power the church has in this country. They got rid of the Communion/Confirmation grant. That wouldn't have happened back when the church had a strong hold over Ireland. No longer can the church of Ireland claim that 95% of people in Ireland are Catholic.

I want to finish by saying I actually do have nothing against Catholics, Christians, or any religions, my own brother is a staunch Catholic, a no-meat-on-a-Friday Catholic, what I think is wrong is signing your child up to a religion IF you have no intentions of raising the child in that religion. I know a lot of people who baptise their child and then that child doesn't see the inside of a church again until their First Communion and then not again until their Confirmation. I don't think that's right. Although I don't outright tell them because it's none of my business. Of course a lot of peole do think it's okay to stick their nose in when we tell them our baby is not going to be baptised :rolleyes: We are raising our child to be open to and accepting of all faith. If she later chooses to be Catholic we will support her every step of the way, just like if she chooses to be atheist, Jewish, Buddist or anything else.

LordSutch

FreshKnickers wrote: »

No longer can the church of Ireland claim that 95% of people in Ireland are Catholic.

The latest census in 2011 showed that 84% of people 'claimed' to be Roman Catholic, with the Church of Ireland figure somewhat tiny by comparrison.

2011 Census: http://www.thejournal.ie/census-2011-surge-in-non-religious-but-84-per-cent-remain-catholic-400443-Mar2012/

Regarding the child being baptised in one religion or another, well only the parents can say what they feel in the heart and soul as to what the correct answer is. In the old days (twenty years ago) there was massive pressure for as many babies as possible to be born RC, and that has obvously now changed, but I can't help thinking that the residual effect is still there, specially by Grandparents who can't imagine their grandchildren not being born into their tradition.

On a related issue, thank God the RC Church is now putting pressure on priests to stop all the razzmatazz (money donations etc) surrounding 1st Communions/Confirmations. I would say Christen the baby if you believe in your chosen religion/denomination, and don't Christen if you are non believers. If you are unsure or hovering, then (unfortunately) the school thing may very well sway you.

gcgirl

LordSutch wrote: »

The latest census in 2011 showed that 84% of people 'claimed' to be Roman Catholic, with the Church of Ireland figure somewhat tiny by comparrison.

2011 Census: http://www.thejournal.ie/census-2011-surge-in-non-religious-but-84-per-cent-remain-catholic-400443-Mar2012/

Regarding the child being baptised in one religion or another, well only the parents can say what they feel in the heart and soul as to what the correct answer is. In the old days (twenty years ago) there was massive pressure for as many babies as possible to be born RC, and that has obvously now changed, but I can't help thinking that the residual effect is still there, specially by Grandparents who can't imagine their grandchildren not being born into their tradition.

On a related issue, thank God the RC Church is now putting pressure on priests to stop all the razzmatazz (money donations etc) surrounding 1st Communions/Confirmations. I would say Christen the baby if you believe in your chosen religion/denomination, and don't Christen if you are non believers. If you are unsure or hovering, then (unfortunately) the school thing may very well sway you.

It's all cultural Catholics nothing to do with following the rules or anything, if you consider the amount that use artificial contraception or have sex outside marriage or even eat meat on a Friday I'd say you'd have about 15% actual Catholics the rest are church of Ireland by definition of what the actually follow rules wise

Tasden

The census is a tricky one because generally parents will identify their children as Catholic in it if they are christened- even if it was to please the grandparents or whatever other reason. Then as children get older they identify as Catholic because they did the sacraments and celebrate Christmas etc.,regardless of church attendance or their personal beliefs at the time. Because I haven't christened my child, even though she celebrates Christmas and other non religous holidays too, she will more than likely identify herself as having no religion until she chooses one if she does.
Up until a few years ago I myself would have ticked Roman Catholic in the census purely because I was christened and confirmed.

Frigga_92

My husband and I were married in a civil ceremony. His parents are no longer with us and my own parents were not invited. We had about 15 guests, just our closest friends, and had a brilliant day, very relaxed, no crazy plans etc, exactly what we wanted. Neither of my parents go to mass and the last time I went to mass was when I was 12. When I initially told my mum she was shocked and a little upset, for months she kept saying "so I'm not invited to your wedding" and my dad was quiet on the whole topic. In the end my mother made her peace with it, I think chatting to her own (very large, catholic) family and them being okay with it, for example, my granny saying "she did her own thing, she always did", kind of made my mum feel happier about it. I think she was a little bit worried that she might bear the brunt of any backlash from her own family but thankfully she didn't. My dad is a very laidback guy and he said that as long as I was happy that he was happy.

My husband and I think that we might like a child, maybe 2 and we have no intention of having them baptised. I think it'll be easier to break the news to my parents because we didn't get married in a church ceremony and they now understand fully the extent of how much I am not a Catholic. If my husband's parents were still alive, particularly his mum, I think they would probably be a bit less understanding but nothing would make me back down.

I work with 2 women who have kids. One of them has a child in confirmation year and the other has a child in communion year. Over the past few months they have both been complaining about "oh I'll have to bring them to mass now for the year because they're making their confirmation/communion" but they don't go any other time of the year, I don't understand this.

Suucee

Myself and OH were both baptised, made communion and confirmation. Were not married (much to my mothers disapproval).
When we had our daughter 18 months ago getting her baptised was not something we even had thought about. Everyone assumed it would be the done thing.
When we said we were thinking of not christening her even though we never go to mass (other than weddings, christenings, funerals etc) neither do our parent they were all shocked and not too impressed.
TBH I don't know what I believe and what swayed us in the end was the whole school thing.

LordSutch

gcgirl wrote: »

It's all cultural Catholics nothing to do with following the rules or anything, if you consider the amount that use artificial contraception or have sex outside marriage or even eat meat on a Friday I'd say you'd have about 15% actual Catholics the rest are church of Ireland by definition of what the actually follow rules wise

Agreed, although I wouldn't post that myself, unless I wanted to get shot down in flames )

pwurple

LordSutch wrote: »

Agreed, although I wouldn't post that myself, unless I wanted to get shot down in flames )

Ah yes, the usual knickers in a twist about catholics not being strict enough for their liking... but still going off and doing all the traditions of easter, christmas and the rest. ?? Makes loads of sense.

But, there isn't really much more to be said on that one without going OT.

mikom

pwurple wrote: »

Ah yes, the usual knickers in a twist about catholics not being strict enough for their liking... but still going off and doing all the traditions of easter, christmas and the rest. ?? Makes loads of sense.

Ah yes, the traditions that catholicism piggybacked on pagan and Roman holidays when coming up with them........

eviltwin

We had some good news this week, my son has an ET place for next year, we were 219 on the list for a class of 30 ish so it just goes to show how things change as time passes. Don't give up hope. I'm so glad we stuck to our guns now and didn't bapthise him and that the cycle of religion ends for our family.

pwurple

eviltwin wrote: »

and that the cycle of religion ends for our family.

Until he becomes a born-again something or other later! Eek!

RobbieTheRobber

pwurple wrote: »

Until he becomes a born-again something or other later! Eek!

If it happens Such is life!
These are the choices adults should get to make rather than choices foisted on infants(for life)!

Ms2011

Bit OT but as it's coming up, what happens at Christmas if you've distanced yourself from the Catholic Church & decided not to Christening your child/ren. Do you still celebrate the day?

Chattastrophe!

Ms2011 wrote: »

Bit OT but as it's coming up, what happens at Christmas if you've distanced yourself from the Catholic Church & decided not to Christening your child/ren. Do you still celebrate the day?

I see Christmas as a cultural celebration, not a religious celebration. I love Christmas, and I'll certainly be doing the whole Santa thing with my kids.

eviltwin

Ms2011 wrote: »

Bit OT but as it's coming up, what happens at Christmas if you've distanced yourself from the Catholic Church & decided not to Christening your child/ren. Do you still celebrate the day?

I'm atheist but always celebrate Christmas too, I don't see it as a religious event anymore.