Reduced Capacity on Peak service

MDFM

So how is it affecting you? Can only speak from my own experiences, but for example, the 05.40am Longford -Pearse..Now reduced to 4 carriages.. While I'm lucky where I board that I will get a seat, it's a disgrace to have to see fellow commuters left either squashed nose to nose on the train or on the platform as there simply is not enough room on this train anymore. :mad: Who are the geniuses that come up with these cost/energy saving initiatives, while increasing our fares at the same time?

LXFlyer

Where are people standing from?

And where are people being left behind?

MDFM

lxflyer wrote: »

Where are people standing from?

And where are people being left behind?

People standing from Lexlip Louisa Bridge..I think then from Ashtown onwards, this morning that is, people (some) were unable to get on due to overcrowding.

LXFlyer

Whatever about standing from Leixlip, I'd totally agree about it being unacceptable that people could not get on.

MDFM

lxflyer wrote: »

Whatever about standing from Leixlip, I'd totally agree about it being unacceptable that people could not get on.

Exactly..But up until either last week or week before ( i didnt travel last week) - this early service (5.40am) was always a 6 carriage set and while it got nearer town, yes you would have people standing. However standing room was at least comfortable and safe and you weren't squashed to an inch of your life. Honestly this morning and yesterday it was like the train to Calcutta. Standing will pretty much always be inevitable, but this is standing to an extreme I'm afraid.

Jamie2k9

Once passengers get seats before Maynooth, its fine to have 4 carriages in place.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Once passengers get seats before Maynooth, its fine to have 4 carriages in place.

Yes, it is, if it doesnt stop then at every station between Maynooth and Pearse. But it does stop and its now dangerously over-crowded & as i already said, some people unable to get on.. How is that fine?

Jamie2k9

MDFM wrote: »

Yes, it is, if it doesnt stop then at every station between Maynooth and Pearse. But it does stop and its now dangerously over-crowded & as i already said, some people unable to get on.. How is that fine?

What will happen in the new timetable is stops will be dropped, Maynooth has a frequent enough service at peak times so I'm sure they were not waiting to long for the next train.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Once passengers get seats before Maynooth, its fine to have 4 carriages in place.

It's not fine if people cannot board the train - that is not acceptable.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

It's not fine if people cannot board the train - that is not acceptable.

Well they can't change a fleet overnight and put a timetable in place over night, can they, would the OP prefer a 4 car 2900 instead?

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well they can't change a fleet overnight and put a timetable in place over night, can they, would the OP prefer a 4 car 2900 instead?

Well I think that you may find that some customers will not agree with you.

Golden rule of cost cutting - do not start to lose customers as a result.

I would expect that they fleet reformation process will cause issues, and result in some people standing where they previously had a seat, but leaving passengers behind is totally unacceptable.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Well I think that you may find that some customers will not agree with you.

Golden rule of cost cutting - do not start to lose customers as a result.

I would expect that they fleet reformation process will cause issues, and result in some people standing where they previously had a seat, but leaving passengers behind is totally unacceptable.

Dublin Bus leave passengers behind everyday, don't see people complaining about it.

L1011

4 car 29 pace-docklands this morning, standing room from castleknock. 3 car 22 (!!) back standing to and possibly beyond clonsilla. 4 car 29 Pearse-Maynooth still standing at clonsilla. It's not like they're particularly short of rolling stock...

Driving would be far quicker - but insanely dearer (24.20 tolls daily...) so I need to figure out which is less horrific

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Dublin Bus leave passengers behind everyday, don't see people complaining about it.

There is a huge difference between leaving people behind when the entire fleet is on the road, and leaving people behind because of an internal management decision to reduce the capacity of the daily operational fleet.

This sort of thing is what makes people decide not to use the product.

daheff

Dont see people complaining about Dublin bus leaving customers behind!!! Jamie you need to learn how to use google or the search function!!

I agree with op that its disgraceful paying customers behind.

We keep hearing Barry kenny of IR spouting on about how people abroad have to stand on commuter trains. Maybe, but generally they have shorter ttcommutes, more frequent trains (so can wait 5 mins for the next train to see if the next one is less packed).

How about IR start leading the way for other railways to copy as 'Best Practice' rather than copy others (& invariably the cost saving practices that make travel worse for customers!!)

Jamie2k9

We keep hearing Barry kenny of IR spouting on about how people abroad have to stand on commuter trains. Maybe, but generally they have shorter ttcommutes, more frequent trains (so can wait 5 mins for the next train to see if the next one is less packed).

How about IR start leading the way for other railways to copy as 'Best Practice' rather than copy others (& invariably the cost saving practices that make travel worse for customers!!)

Trains fares are much higher outside of Ireland so yes having more frequent trains is possible. What people here think is expensive its nothing compared to other places.

Maybe people on the Maynooth line need to get in contact with the local TD who happens to be minister of transport who has cut 10 million from IE next year...

The people who couldn't get on the 4 car had to wait less than 10 minutes for the next train, towards city centre.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Dublin Bus leave passengers behind everyday, don't see people complaining about it.

That's the most ridiculous bit of excusing IE at all costs I've heard for a long time! What an Urban bus company does is nothing to do with the matter , chalk and cheese with a common overlord.

Passengers generally don't complain , they vote with their feet and IE can't afford to lose any passengers.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well they can't change a fleet overnight and put a timetable in place over night, can they, would the OP prefer a 4 car 2900 instead?

I'm not referring to the timetable...that hasn't changed..Re-my original post, my point is, they've reduced the capacity by 2 carriages, on a peak service. Result - train is packed to the extent breathing space is next to nothing, and yes while standing on trains is the norm, as has being on this service already, but now it's at the point of ridiculous & dangerous. People were left behind on the platform, reason being it was not possible to squeeze any more bodies onto the train.

I don't care what train they lay on, 22 or 29 - but it's not acceptable to suddenly change this service's capacity when it clearly is a service in high demand that people are paying a lot of money to use.

Jamie2k9

MDFM wrote: »

I'm not referring to the timetable...that hasn't changed..Re-my original post, my point is, they've reduced the capacity by 2 carriages, on a peak service. Result - train is packed to the extent breathing space is next to nothing, and yes while standing on trains is the norm, as has being on this service already, but now it's at the point of ridiculous & dangerous. People were left behind on the platform, reason being it was not possible to squeeze any more bodies onto the train.

I don't care what train they lay on, 22 or 29 - but it's not acceptable to suddenly change this service's capacity when it clearly is a service in high demand that people are paying a lot of money to use.

Yes and my point the reduced train sizes will require a new timetable to ensure capacity is right so until the fleet is changed that can't happen.

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

That's the most ridiculous bit of excusing IE at all costs I've heard for a long time! What an Urban bus company does is nothing to do with the matter , chalk and cheese with a common overlord.

Passengers generally don't complain , they vote with their feet and IE can't afford to lose any passengers.

So are you saying some stations on the Maynooth line are not urban.

Buses and trams leave people behind all the time, the fact is you only had less than 10 minutes for next service.

Not saying the cut in capacity is right or wrong just saying cutting this service isn't causing as much problems as others being cut.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes and my point the reduced train sizes will require a new timetable to ensure capacity is right so until the fleet is changed that can't happen.

As far as I'm aware, there is no new timetable coming into place..Unless you can point me to the information stating that it is? In any case, I don't get your point 'reduced train sizes will require new timetable' ....train sizes are already reduced in the past 2 weeks, but no new timetable has come into force.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So are you saying some stations on the Maynooth line are not urban.

Buses and trams leave people behind all the time, the fact is you only had less than 10 minutes for next service.

Not saying the cut in capacity is right or wrong just saying cutting this service isn't causing as much problems as others being cut.

And how do you know??
Why not take a trip on the service in question (5.40am longford-pearse) yourself, then come back and comment..

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So are you saying some stations on the Maynooth line are not urban.

Buses and trams leave people behind all the time, the fact is you only had less than 10 minutes for next service.

Not saying the cut in capacity is right or wrong just saying cutting this service isn't causing as much problems as others being cut.

And how do you know??
Why not take a trip on the service in question (5.40am longford-pearse) yourself, then come back and comment..

Jamie2k9

MDFM wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, there is no new timetable coming into place..Unless you can point me to the information stating that it is? In any case, I don't get your point 'reduced train sizes will require new timetable' ....train sizes are already reduced in the past 2 weeks, but no new timetable has come into force.

None due for the next while but it will be end of the year if not early 2014 before the whole fleet is changed over so only then can a new timetable be planned. Clearly this train should be non stop from Maynooth in whi its a 4 car.

And how do you know??
Why not take a trip on the service in question (5.40am longford-pearse) and witness it for yourself, then come back and comment..

17.05 to Sligo last Friday.

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So are you saying some stations on the Maynooth line are not urban.

Buses and trams leave people behind all the time, the fact is you only had less than 10 minutes for next service.

Not saying the cut in capacity is right or wrong just saying cutting this service isn't causing as much problems as others being cut.

Is Maynooth I the City? Not in way comparable to a City bus service. Most definately Outer Suburban

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

Is Maynooth I the City? Not in way comparable to a City bus service. Most definately Outer Suburban

But the OP said the problems started further into the city.

My view on the 4 car trains is they are a good idea however they shouldn't convert the whole fleet. They should start off with 15 sets and keep the rest as it is.

They would then have
37 3 piece
15 4 piece
10 6 piece

If needed to reduce further then gradually increase the 4 piece sets.

corktina

How will they manage the necessary timetable changes then? Not very practical really. On a service such as this they should be running 3+3

MDFM

corktina wrote: »

How will they manage the necessary timetable changes then? Not very practical really. On a service such as this they should be running 3+3

Yep, and this was what they were originally running on the aforementioned service..

Jamie2k9

corktina wrote: »

How will they manage the necessary timetable changes then? Not very practical really. On a service such as this they should be running 3+3

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

L1011

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

Meaning that the next services to those stops will become chronically overcrowded.

thomasj

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

Why fix something that's not broken?

It was fine when it was a 6-coach, just put it back to the way it was.

Irish rail cannot afford to risk losing passengers on this or any other services.

Jamie2k9

thomasj wrote: »

Why fix something that's not broken?

It was fine when it was a 6-coach, just put it back to the way it was.

Irish rail cannot afford to risk losing passengers on this or any other services.

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Cookie_Monster

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

None due for the next while but it will be end of the year if not early 2014 before the whole fleet is changed over so only then can a new timetable be planned. Clearly this train should be non stop from Maynooth in whi its a 4 car.

what stops them planning a timetable until there are spare trains lying around doing nothing and they've lost X% of their customers on affected lines?

Why can't IE use the comprehensive amount of data they have to plan the timetable in advance, rather than wait and see what they have lying around to use?

markpb

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Who will pay for it if people leave Irish Rail in favour of another transport method?

Anyway this seems to have gone off topic. Assuming you're right and a timetable change will help support the drop in capacity, why did Irish Rail go ahead and reduce the capacity knowing that there would be problems for several months until the new timetable arrived. Surely they should be doing the two at the same time?

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Will the passengers be prepared to pay more for it?.

Are you for real? Pay MORE for something they are already paying dearly for?

corktina

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

they could, maybe should do this now then? Is that your point?

thomasj

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Drop stops from Maynooth onwards.

People can barely board the train after that as it is, if people are offset from that service, how do you propose they resolve the following train?

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

There is a huge difference between leaving people behind when the entire fleet is on the road

I regularly saw at least 10+ buses sitting in Donnybrook depot every morning on my way past at 8-8.30am. The entire fleet is never out and if you replicate that over all the depots there must always be at least 50 buses idle, not to mention those withdrawn in the sheds (out of sight) for maintenance cycles.

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

So how is it affecting you? Can only speak from my own experiences, but for example, the 05.40am Longford -Pearse..Now reduced to 4 carriages.. While I'm lucky where I board that I will get a seat, it's a disgrace to have to see fellow commuters left either squashed nose to nose on the train or on the platform as there simply is not enough room on this train anymore. :mad: Who are the geniuses that come up with these cost/energy saving initiatives, while increasing our fares at the same time?

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

People aren't going to blindly ram in to the same carriage at every single station. Particularly as which end of the platform is nearer the entrance is not the same at every station. Its pretty safe to say that the other carriages are as crowded. They aren't the top deck of a bus.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

People aren't going to blindly ram in to the same carriage at every single station. Particularly as which end of the platform is nearer the entrance is not the same at every station. Its pretty safe to say that the other carriages are as crowded. They aren't the top deck of a bus.

Ive seen it happen.

LXFlyer

With respect - it is obvious that there some of the trains being shortened right now just cannot cope as such and trying to pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

People standing to/from Longford as reported elsewhere, people being left behind from other stations as per above, and elsewhere, is just not acceptable.

Jamie2k9

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what stops them planning a timetable until there are spare trains lying around doing nothing and they've lost X% of their customers on affected lines?

Why can't IE use the comprehensive amount of data they have to plan the timetable in advance, rather than wait and see what they have lying around to use?

Not saying they couldn't

Who will pay for it if people leave Irish Rail in favour of another transport method?

Would think the answer is quiet obvious....

Are you for real? Pay MORE for something they are already paying dearly for?

Still below what others pay for similar service/routes. As I say Rail travel is cheap here even if we think its not.

they could, maybe should do this now then? Is that your point?

Don't know the line workings in detail but expect dropping stops now would be pointless with current schedules in place.

People can barely board the train after that as it is, if people are offset from that service, how do you propose they resolve the following train?

Increase capacity on shorter trains in the Dublin area would deliver costs that running empty trains to Longford/Sligo everyday of the week.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I regularly saw at least 10+ buses sitting in Donnybrook depot every morning on my way past at 8-8.30am. The entire fleet is never out and if you replicate that over all the depots there must always be at least 50 buses idle, not to mention those withdrawn in the sheds (out of sight) for maintenance cycles.

With respect - I think you know what I meant. You will always have maintenance cover.

L1011

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ive seen it happen.

I haven't, and I've travelled the Maynooth Line rather a lot.

Its effectively impossible considering the bunching positions on the platforms are in different locations in virtual every single station due to where their entrances and stop positions are.

People, in general, aren't that stupid either - the issue with double deckers is the stairs, something trains don't have.

This sounds like another ridiculous suggestion to try and cover for Irish Rail.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Can you see if people are crammed nose to nose in all carriages from your seat or just the one that you are in? Ive seen people jump into the first carriage that stop by them and give out about it being crammed and at the same time one or two of the other carriages have a few seats free with only those choosing to stand doing so. Im not saying its the case with your train but that it does happen.

There were crammed yes on my carriage..On the 2nd/3rd carriage were 2 work colleagues of mine who told me it was the same on their carriages too. It's just unfair it has come to this, it's ever backwards Irish Rail are going nowadays. I know no system is ever going to be perfect, but they've created this situation now themselves & expect us to pay more for it in the process.

Hilly Bill

MYOB wrote: »

I haven't, and I've travelled the Maynooth Line rather a lot.

Its effectively impossible considering the bunching positions on the platforms are in different locations in virtual every single station due to where their entrances and stop positions are.

People, in general, aren't that stupid either - the issue with double deckers is the stairs, something trains don't have.

This sounds like another ridiculous suggestion to try and cover for Irish Rail.

Its not impossible and people can be that stupid, see the post i made about people swapping from a 2 car dart to a 4 car .
Covering and ridiculous??? How?

n97 mini

MYOB is right. Peak hour trains from Maynooth have more space towards the front when they arrive into Confey as the entrances to the platform in the preceding two stations, Maynooth and Louisa Bridge, are towards the back of the train.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

With respect - I think you know what I meant. You will always have maintenance cover.

aside from maintenance cover there are always buses sitting idle in the yards at rush-hour, always. Of course it is allowable to have a certain number of buses out under maint at all times, but I doubt these are the same ones that sit idle lined up in the yards.

foggy_lad

I was in Connolly on Monday on platform 5 trying to get a dart to raheny and two 4 car darts arrived for howth and malahide and both were jam packed with miserable looking commuters. A few brave souls managed to get on these overcrowded darts but the rest of us got the Drogheda commuter just after them.

I thought peak time darts were not being cut? Both these short darts were just after 6pm.

MDFM

So we have 7 carriages this morning!