Reduced Capacity on Peak service

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

completely agree, really what needs to happen is that a system is in place that, trains to and from sligo not be advertised to stop in maynooth but actually would, how it would work is, if i wanted to go from dublin to maynooth and i book, the sligo train times won't show up, only maynooth commuters will, if i want to go from maynooth to dublin again only the maynooth commuters will show, if i want to go to maynooth from sligo then the sligo train times will show, if i want to go from maynooth to sligo the sligo train times will show, same should be done for rosslare services when busy, it might allow some capacity to be cut but would still mean seats for those traveling the long distance and those going to maynooth and graystones can use the trains run for them while those traveling from those stations to further a field won't be effected, it would require co-operation with staff and a revamping of the online booking system probably, but something has to give and severely over crowded trains and those who wish to use intercity services as their little express train taking seats from those traveling longer distances is exactly what has to give.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If Maynooth is made a Pick up stop only for outbound Sligo trains and drop off only for inbound Sligo trains it would work, It would require all tickets to be checked onto the sligo train in Connolly to weed out the short stop commuters and then anyone allighting the Sligo bound trains in Maynooth gets fined regardless of their ticket as they have got off a train at a pick up only stop.

corktina

a peak Intercity service of only 6 coaches? what happened to proper sized trains?

LXFlyer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It doesnt really matter as to how far people were standing for. Some could choose to remain standing when seats are free so it doesnt really mean that there wasnt any seats for the whole time a person was standing.

I merely asked a question. If I wanted to guess, I could do that myself.

Quite frankly I don't find either of your replies to my posts in any way helpful or constructive.

cython

foggy_lad wrote: »

If Maynooth is made a Pick up stop only for outbound Sligo trains and drop off only for inbound Sligo trains it would work, It would require all tickets to be checked onto the sligo train in Connolly to weed out the short stop commuters and then anyone allighting the Sligo bound trains in Maynooth gets fined regardless of their ticket as they have got off a train at a pick up only stop.

Do the by-laws actually recognise such a notion as a pick-up only stop in the way that Bus Eireann have (and can more easily enforce due to having one door on/off and a driver stationed at it)? Genuine question, by the way, I honestly don't know, but would not necessarily expect such a provision, which would make your suggestion a bigger undertaking than it sounds.

But even if it is provided for, the logistics of policing those suggestions (e.g. preventing boarding at Maynooth) are less than trivial.

corktina

"stops to pick up/set down only" is a concept almost as old as the railways. I doubt there would be a need to police it as it would deter enough passengers to achieve it's object.

(even today if you get an "Ealing Broadway" bound train at Reading, it is actually going to Paddington). It's the slow service, which I often took as you see more.

bikeman1

Foggy, why are intercity trains not designed to have people standing on them? Of course they are. The 22s work commuter services into Dublin on the Northern line and from Portlaoise/Athlone etc. I am not aware of any issues with people standing uo on those services.

As for shiny yellow handles, the 22s have blue handles above each seat to hold onto and surprise surprise big handles in the vestibule areas.

It is a matter of fact that some services are going to be so busy that people are left standing for a part of their Intercity Journey out of Dublin. If you don't want to stand you can book your seat if you wish. I think implementing a pick up/set down only rule in Maynooth would be good for the Intercity customers on the route. This is a concept used widely around Europe for similar services.

Of course all of this would be migated if Free Travel Passes were restricted to free use off peak and a small quota for peak services. Or even better get rid off the free pass, but thats another story!

foggy_lad

cython wrote: »

Do the by-laws actually recognise such a notion as a pick-up only stop in the way that Bus Eireann have (and can more easily enforce due to having one door on/off and a driver stationed at it)? Genuine question, by the way, I honestly don't know, but would not necessarily expect such a provision, which would make your suggestion a bigger undertaking than it sounds.

But even if it is provided for, the logistics of policing those suggestions (e.g. preventing boarding at Maynooth) are less than trivial.

The inbound train could pick up passengers as the long distance passengers should all have seats already so the only policing would be at a single platform in Connolly that the Sligo train would depart from. There a staff member informing people via regular announcements that the Sligo train does not serve Maynooth and those allighting at Maynooth will be stoped and fined would suffice. Then the ticket checker in maynooth stops and fines any passenger seen to allight from the Sligo trains.

Victor

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You were standing at the door at 2 mins past 7 i saw you . I saw you waiting to get your ticket and then i was stood close enough to touch you on the first carriage .

Comments like this are inappropriate

Moderator

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

a peak Intercity service of only 6 coaches? what happened to proper sized trains?

god be with the days corkie of locos dragging huge rakes of carriges both on commuter and inter city services, strangely they were a lot faster as well then the current stock even if it is capible of faster speeds then the old properly built BR designed rolling stock

end of the road

bikeman1 wrote: »

Foggy, why are intercity trains not designed to have people standing on them? Of course they are. The 22s work commuter services into Dublin on the Northern line and from Portlaoise/Athlone etc. I am not aware of any issues with people standing uo on those services.

As for shiny yellow handles, the 22s have blue handles above each seat to hold onto and surprise surprise big handles in the vestibule areas.

no, technically the ICRS are not designed for standing, at least not the high capacity standing that short hall commuter services require, athlone/portlaoise technically wouldn't count as all though people "commute" from those and other stations they would be outside the short hall commuter zone, mind you irish rail probably don't get that seeing as they continue to use high capacity commuter rail cars on some services to rosslare and sligo while running ICRS on m3 parkway and maynooth services (short hall commuter services)

Hilly Bill

lxflyer wrote: »

I merely asked a question. If I wanted to guess, I could do that myself.

Quite frankly I don't find either of your replies to my posts in any way helpful or constructive.

I only replied, you are free to ignore them .

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

Regardless of the smiley faces you are either genuinely mistaken or just plain lying, You don't know me and can't say with any degree of certainty where I was sitting on that train.

Oh so it is not Irish Rails fault now! If they gave people more seats they would not use them!



People should NEVER be standing on any intercity trains which are not designed to carry standing passengers, Intercity trains have no grab rails and no areas where people can stand safely and not be in the way. It makes a journey several times more uncomfortable when you have to worry about being thrown about the train because there is no rail to hold on to!

Commuter stock is designed to carry standing passengers, that is why all the aisle seats have those large bright yellow grab rails attached, that is what all those bright yellow bars and rails around the doors are for, that is why there are large areas around the doors for people to stand.

Regardless of people standing though there is a more serious issue of people being left behind which should never happen if a railway is managed and run correctly, those people were left without a train because some group responsible for providing seats on a train for them decided to do an experiment, They noticed that numbers were low for one or two weeks but probably forgot that the Halloween period can be quiet as there are few students on the Friday trains as many will take a week or a few days off, So they decide to ignore all the other weeks of the year and cut two carriages off the train. It makes no sense at all!

Leo is not giving Irish Rail money to operate trains which have to be followed by a fleet of buses and coaches.

Where are you going with your fleet of buses and coaches ?
Im not lying or mistaken but doesnt matter now.
If people are not supposed to be standing on that train then why did you get on it when it was full and would you have prefered to have been prevented from boarding because all the seats were taken? Even if the train was at the maximum length do you suggest stopping people from boarding when all the seats are taken?
People choose to stand on every train no matter how many seats are free . Ive seen people swap from a 2 carriage train onto a 4 carriage train and then go onto the first 2 carriages and then complaining because they have to go from one full train onto another when the other 2 carriages are empty.
If people turn up late then they run the risk of having to stand or not getting on the train because its full.

Losty Dublin

end of the road wrote: »

no, technically the ICRS are not designed for standing

So they are not designed for standing but there are handles inside them. Any idea what they are there for?

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So they are not designed for standing but there are handles inside them. Any idea what they are there for?

They are to help those who might need help in getting on and off the train and for those in wheelchairs to use when going through the area with the wheelchair toilet. the small orange grab knobs on the seats are for people to steady themselves as they walk through to the toilets or the snack trolley or buffet car at the end of the train.

Grandeeod

Losty Dublin wrote: »

So they are not designed for standing but there are handles inside them. Any idea what they are there for?

For a regular on here that appears to know what they are talking about, you have joined Hilly bill in the ultimate, "we know stuff, but would rather take the piss out of others in a very patronising fashion" brigade. And not for the first time either.

Your point about the ICRCs is misleading. Considering the knowledge you appear to have, your points of defence are rather dubious. You know damn well they aren't designed for commuter traffic where there are lots of passengers standing and never will be. Could you please stop the "I know best" BS? Probably not. I find your posts along with a few others to be rather geared towards making fun of people that question things you think are justified.

Jamie2k9

oh come on all trains allow for standing, now before people miss quote me, I am NOT saying that people should to stand on the 22's but on a Friday afternoon standing room is inevitable weather its 3, 4, 7 or 8 carriages. Now there is things the operator could do to ease the problem but all passengers getting seats will never happen Friday afternoon.

SeanW

It wouldn't have happened last Friday if the train had been 6 carriages.

Grandeeod

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

oh come on all trains allow for standing, now before people miss quote me, I am NOT saying that people should to stand on the 22's but on a Friday afternoon standing room is inevitable weather its 3, 4, 7 or 8 carriages. Now there is things the operator could do to ease the problem but all passengers getting seats will never happen Friday afternoon.

I agree that standing on any kind of train is inevitable at certain times particularly on a Friday afternoon/evening. However it is not beyond reason to claim that the 22s are not suitable for certain amounts of people. I mean someone here talked about the bright yellow handles in the vestibules. They aren't for holding onto when standing on a 22. It is blatantly obvious they are there to assist passengers boarding/alighting. As for the handles on aisle seats, I would suggest they exist for passengers to hold onto as they make their way along the aisle.

I really feel there are posters on this thread that are deliberately taking the micky out of others.

Jamie2k9

Grandeeod wrote: »

I agree that standing on any kind of train is inevitable at certain times particularly on a Friday afternoon/evening. However it is not beyond reason to claim that the 22s are not suitable for certain amounts of people. I mean someone here talked about the bright yellow handles in the vestibules. They aren't for holding onto when standing on a 22. It is blatantly obvious they are there to assist passengers boarding/alighting. As for the handles on aisle seats, I would suggest they exist for passengers to hold onto as they make their way along the aisle.
.

You can stand on the 22's without holding onto anything traveling at top speed of 100mph without any danger, I just did it last week, ride quality is good so the need to hold onto something doesn't come into it. I stud perfectly fine on Friday. The orange handles have more than one function and can be used when standing. They are next to no use for wheelchair passengers as they are to high and would cause the user to stretch to reach the handles. Who are you to say they only have one function? I have never saw somebody using the handles for assistance, only have saw people holding onto them when standing at times.

The 22's can take a lot of passengers comfortably standing but dose not mean its right.

I really feel there are posters on this thread that are deliberately taking the micky out of others

No harm in a bit of fun, now is there.

As already said its trail and error on train sizes and IE are actually restoring capacity where needed for once. Have yet to see many complaints come in. Sligo line seems to be the only major problem so far.

Grandeeod

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

You can stand on the 22's without holding onto anything traveling at top speed of 100mph without any danger, I just did it last week, ride quality is good so the need to hold onto something doesn't come into it. I stud perfectly fine on Friday. The orange handles have more than one function and can be used when standing. They are next to no use for wheelchair passengers as they are to high and would cause the user to stretch to reach the handles. Who are you to say they only have one function? I have never saw somebody using the handles for assistance, only have saw people holding onto them when standing at times.

The 22's can take a lot of passengers comfortably standing but dose not mean its right.



No harm in a bit of fun, now is there.

As already said its trail and error on train sizes and IE are actually restoring capacity where needed for once. Have yet to see many complaints come in. Sligo line seems to be the only major problem so far.

These handles are designed for something specific and you know that. It's beside the door for a reason. I've lost count of the amount of times I saw people using them to assist boarding. You may be young and fit as a fiddle, but not everyone is. Just because you havent witnessed anyone using them for assistance dosent make my point mute. As for holding them while standing, I never said you shouldn't, but according to you you don't need to anyway.

Which brings me to standing without holding onto anything at 100mph without any danger, I'm glad you are not in charge of railway safety. A sudden braking of the train and its domino time. Thats why commuter trains geared towards an expectant level of standing passengers are designed specifically to accommodate it. I think the 22ks are decent trains. I accept that on occasion people have to stand, but I do not accept that these trains are capable of dealing with a large proportion of passengers standing, no more than any other IC train.

Jamie2k9

Grandeeod wrote: »

These handles are designed for something specific and you know that. It's beside the door for a reason. I've lost count of the amount of times I saw people using them to assist boarding. You may be young and fit as a fiddle, but not everyone is. Just because you havent witnessed anyone using them for assistance dosent make my point mute. As for holding them while standing, I never said you shouldn't, but according to you you don't need to anyway.

Which brings me to standing without holding onto anything at 100mph without any danger, I'm glad you are not in charge of railway safety. A sudden braking of the train and its domino time. Thats why commuter trains geared towards an expectant level of standing passengers are designed specifically to accommodate it. I think the 22ks are decent trains. I accept that on occasion people have to stand, but I do not accept that these trains are capable of dealing with a large proportion of passengers standing, no more than any other IC train.

There is very few times for very sudden braking and when you are standing on the 22's you always have something to lean against. Your making to much of an issue. You could easily fit 50-60 people standing comfortably and that's me given lots of space. In the UK people are squashed on trains at 125mph and there is no safety issues and anyway its not as if the Sligo line gets past 75mph, 80 at most.

If you like they should run a 4 car 2900 to Sligo instead but that wouldn't please people either, now would it...

Hilly Bill

SeanW wrote: »

It wouldn't have happened last Friday if the train had been 6 carriages.

Are you saying that nobody would be standing if it had been a 6 piece?

Losty Dublin

Grandeeod wrote: »

For a regular on here that appears to know what they are talking about, you have joined Hilly bill in the ultimate, "we know stuff, but would rather take the piss out of others in a very patronising fashion" brigade. And not for the first time either.

Your point about the ICRCs is misleading. Considering the knowledge you appear to have, your points of defence are rather dubious. You know damn well they aren't designed for commuter traffic where there are lots of passengers standing and never will be. Could you please stop the "I know best" BS? Probably not. I find your posts along with a few others to be rather geared towards making fun of people that question things you think are justified.

Yep we sure do know stuff, a bit more than you think we do

Fact is, that there are handles on a train to allow for a certain amount of standees at any one time. A mainline train, while not laid out to accommodate as many people standing as a DART or commuter stock, actually allows for this should the need arise. The steady and smooth nature of a train journey and track means that it is far safer to stand than, say a bus or aeroplane.

Yes, it's not ideal that people are standing if at all possible but it does happen from time to time and it can happen at times when it's unexpected. With that in mind, lets agree that handle are for handling

end of the road

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

In the UK people are squashed on trains at 125mph and there is no safety issues

yet. the uk situation is extremely unacceptable and makes for a very uncomfortable journey, then again what would you expect when one sells off their rolling stock to banks and private pension funds

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If you like they should run a 4 car 2900 to Sligo instead but that wouldn't please people either, now would it...

or they could run the required size ICR on the route which its designed to operate, your dead right operating a rickity horrid uncomfortable noisy smelly dirty 2900 rail car to sligo doesn't never has and never will please people and it is shambolic that it is happening or has ever happened, a 4 car 29 should not be operating to sligo or rosslare and theirs no excuse for it and its down to incompitents that it is happening.

SeanW

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you saying that nobody would be standing if it had been a 6 piece?

Very likely - room for standees is very limited in those cars, I don't think each car that was there could have held more than 10-20 standees.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Are you saying that nobody would be standing if it had been a 6 piece?

It's a rare thing to see anyone standing on that service if its a 6 piece, i've rarely witnessed it.
Shame is with these reduced over packed carriages, theres really v little room for wheelchair passengers..which i witnessed last week too.

Jamie2k9

I could be making this up but aren't wheelchair users asked to give 24hr notice to travel?

Now this evening I was on a packed 4 coach train and there was a lot more that 30-40 people standing as with Sligo and they were standing for 1h30m-1h45m which isn't right.

It's a rare thing to see anyone standing on that service if its a 6 piece, i've rarely witnessed it.

I see it every week.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I could be making this up but aren't wheelchair users asked to give 24hr notice to travel?

Now this evening I was on a packed 4 coach train and there was a lot more that 30-40 people standing as with Sligo and they were standing for 1h30m-1h45m which isn't right.



I see it every week.

Fine, but are they squashed to within an inch of their lives? Its not that common on a 6 piece service to Sligo in the evenings to be honest

re-wheelchair users..i don't know that..but, why should they give notice, isnt that discriminatory against them? what about a wheelchair user that requires train use daily, like every other commuter, to get to work? why should they give notice, they have or should have equal rights to travel as they choose every day, shouldnt they?

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

It's a rare thing to see anyone standing on that service if its a 6 piece, i've rarely witnessed it.
Shame is with these reduced over packed carriages, theres really v little room for wheelchair passengers..which i witnessed last week too.

rare? Far from it. There would have been less people standing but a guarantee that their will be some standing. Some by choice and some from not checking the whole train for seats. A wheelchair will always get on a train.

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I could be making this up but aren't wheelchair users asked to give 24hr notice to travel?

Now this evening I was on a packed 4 coach train and there was a lot more that 30-40 people standing as with Sligo and they were standing for 1h30m-1h45m which isn't right.



I see it every week.

If the wheelchairs arrive in good time then they will always get on a train .

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

rare? Far from it. There would have been less people standing but a guarantee that their will be some standing. Some by choice and some from not checking the whole train for seats. A wheelchair will always get on a train.

Yes rare, fact..on 6 piece, when they had them to sligo, 16.00hr & 17.05hr, rarely anyone standing from Connolly & if they were they at least had standing room. Im on those services daily nearly 10 years now..

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

Fine, but are they squashed to within an inch of their lives? Its not that common on a 6 piece service to Sligo in the evenings to be honest

re-wheelchair users..i don't know that..but, why should they give notice, isnt that discriminatory against them? what about a wheelchair user that requires train use daily, like every other commuter, to get to work? why should they give notice, they have or should have equal rights to travel as they choose every day, shouldnt they?

Those that require assistance on and off trains are well looked after.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Those that require assistance on and off trains are well looked after.

If they can actually get on the train to begin with that is

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

Yes rare, fact..on 6 piece, when they had them to sligo, 16.00hr & 17.05hr, rarely anyone standing from Connolly & if they were they at least had standing room. Im on those services daily nearly 10 years now..

Those trains will always have someone standing. To be truthful, the only reason the train foggy was one looked squashed was that some decided to stand at the doors rather than move down the carriage.

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

If they can actually get on the train to begin with that is

They will always get on if they arrive on time and ask for assistance.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They will always get on if they arrive on time and ask for assistance.

How? You obviously haven't been on the affected service in question lately so

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

How? You obviously haven't been on the affected service in question lately so

Its simple, they use the ramp and go into the designated areas.The decent people move. Which affected service are you on about?

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its simple, they use the ramp and go into the designated areas.The decent people move. Which affected service are you on about?

Move to where?
Read recent post about 19hr to sligo friday, jammed packed. Having been on that service lately on a Friday I can tell you room to swing a cat is not possible

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

Move to where?
Read recent post about 19hr to sligo friday, jammed packed. Having been on that service lately on a Friday I can tell you room to swing a cat is not possible

Move down the carriage. Swinging cats is not allowed and that train always has plenty of room when its a 6 piece. Next time you get that train, head for the front.

MDFM

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Move down the carriage. Swinging cats is not allowed and that train always has plenty of room when its a 6 piece. Next time you get that train, head for the front.

Rubbish

RobbingBandit

Got the 7:05pm train the last three nights from Connolly to Maynooth, Friday and Saturday were mental, no room at all and people were sitting on the floor in the doorway and outside the toilet on both nights, tonight I found the first carriage fairly empty not sure what it was like in the last one as I will be avoiding it from now on.

Hilly Bill

MDFM wrote: »

Rubbish

There are bins available for that.

Jamie2k9

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Got the 7:05pm train the last three nights from Connolly to Maynooth, Friday and Saturday were mental, no room at all and people were sitting on the floor in the doorway and outside the toilet on both nights, tonight I found the first carriage fairly empty not sure what it was like in the last one as I will be avoiding it from now on.

It's people like you who cause "no room" on the service....

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Those that require assistance on and off trains are well looked after.

Yes I agree, but only where there is adequate accommodation on a train.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

If the wheelchairs arrive in good time then they will always get on a train .

Arriving in good time or not if the train is packed 15 minutes before departure there is going to be nowhere for a wheelchair and possibly two or three adults and children to go.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

rare? Far from it. There would have been less people standing but a guarantee that their will be some standing. Some by choice and some from not checking the whole train for seats. A wheelchair will always get on a train.

Again, only where there is adequate accommodation on the train.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Those trains will always have someone standing. To be truthful, the only reason the train foggy was one looked squashed was that some decided to stand at the doors rather than move down the carriage.

There was nowhere to move that was safe enough to stand, the only place on the 22000's with handrails is at the doors and standing in the aisle is not safe due to people passing by going to and from the toilets and snack car/trolley.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They will always get on if they arrive on time and ask for assistance.

Yet again only where there is adequate accommodation on a train.

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its simple, they use the ramp and go into the designated areas.The decent people move. Which affected service are you on about?

Where are any people going to move to?

To suggest that 20 or more people will just move from a corridor and wheelchair area on a train at the sight of a wheelchair is just plain silly and no staff member worth anything would put a wheelchair user into such a situation where they are responsible for even more discomfort of so many other passengers.

RobbingBandit

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's people like you who cause "no room" on the service....

What do YOU mean, I sat in a seat as I got there early enough to get a seat.

Jamie2k9

RobbingBandit wrote: »

What do YOU mean, I sat in a seat as I got there early enough to get a seat.

Yes you as a "commuter" took the seat of a person traveling further than Maynooth. If you are that concerned about over crowding, maybe you should get the Commuter service to Maynooth. It would of meant one less person sitting on the floor.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's people like you who cause "no room" on the service....

As it is currently organised a passenger going to Maynooth or even Drumcondra has as much right to a seat on the train as someone going all the way

RobbingBandit

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes you as a "commuter" took the seat of a person traveling further than Maynooth. If you are that concerned about over crowding, maybe you should get the Commuter service to Maynooth. It would of meant one less person sitting on the floor.

:mad: Are you for real, the train is a direct service to Maynooth, why should I take up a seat on the commuter service which stops at 9 stops before Maynooth, this one goes direct, you make no sense with this.

Jamie2k9

RobbingBandit wrote: »

:mad: Are you for real, the train is a direct service to Maynooth, why should I take up a seat on the commuter service which stops at 9 stops before Maynooth, this one goes direct, you make no sense with this.

Well enjoy it while it lasts as instead of restoring 6 piece sets, Maynooth will be dropped from some services to ease the problem somewhat. You have every right to travel on the service but its a bit rich coming on here complaining its over crowded.

Hilly Bill

I get what you say Foggy but it only takes a few minutes for people to stand aside for the chair to move into the chair area and then those can go and stand back where they where. But above all, common sense prevails.