Reduced Capacity on Peak service

Hilly Bill

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Yes you as a "commuter" took the seat of a person traveling further than Maynooth. If you are that concerned about over crowding, maybe you should get the Commuter service to Maynooth. It would of meant one less person sitting on the floor.

The 19.10 to Maynooth is usually standing only but it was strangely quieter last friday with plenty of seats with some still standing.

Fred Swanson

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Jamie2k9

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That will not happen, it will be the train that has the most capacity in the evenings that will be kept so the 17.05 is likely but 16.00 and 19.05 services if they remain 3 or 4 coaches will be axed from the timetable if over crowding continues. Best demand from Maynooth is probably students on Friday.

RobbingBandit

You guys are nuts, what the hell have I stumbled into here, I made one comment about how busy the service was on Friday and Saturday but not tonight and I get attacked from all sides, enjoy your trains lads I am going to sleep. Mad, just plain mad.

end of the road

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Are you for real, the train is a direct service to Maynooth, why should I take up a seat on the commuter service which stops at 9 stops before Maynooth, this one goes direct, you make no sense with this.

because this was probably a sligo train which only stops at maynooth in both directions to facilitate students going to and from maynooth to stations on the sligo line, and to facilitate a change for those going from stations before maynooth to stations between it and connolly. there fore it would be appreciated if you see the sligo train is crowded to wait for the maynooth commuter trains, the fact the sligo train is direct is no excuse, just a suggestion

end of the road

RobbingBandit wrote: »

You guys are nuts, what the hell have I stumbled into here, I made one comment about how busy the service was on Friday and Saturday but not tonight and I get attacked from all sides, enjoy your trains lads I am going to sleep. Mad, just plain mad.

huh? yes you complained about the service being crowded, fine, however all that was said to you was to consider using the maynooth commuters instead if the direct train (which was probably a sligo train) is crowded

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well enjoy it while it lasts as instead of restoring 6 piece sets, Maynooth will be dropped from some services to ease the problem somewhat. You have every right to travel on the service but its a bit rich coming on here complaining its over crowded.

So instead of fixing the issue by adding at least one carriage to a few trains and stopping people for Maynooth boarding in Connolly and Drumcondra they are going to Fúck it up for a load more passengers who will not be able to get their trains from Maynooth and the busy student trains will still be packed out like they are in India? more Irish Fail logic at work!

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I get what you say Foggy but it only takes a few minutes for people to stand aside for the chair to move into the chair area and then those can go and stand back where they where. But above all, common sense prevails.

No you don't! You want people to stand aside to some fantastic clear area that does not exist so that a wheelchair can move into the space they were standing in, Then you say they can move back to where they were standing? are they to stand on the wheelchair user? And they must do all of this without any handrails.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That will not happen, it will be the train that has the most capacity in the evenings that will be kept so the 17.05 is likely but 16.00 and 19.05 services if they remain 3 or 4 coaches will be axed from the timetable if over crowding continues. Best demand from Maynooth is probably students on Friday.

Is there a shortage of 22000's? how many were crashed/damaged? how many are currently mothballed or out of service long term?

Jamie2k9

So instead of fixing the issue by adding at least one carriage to a few trains and stopping people for Maynooth boarding in Connolly and Drumcondra they are going to Fúck it up for a load more passengers who will not be able to get their trains from Maynooth and the busy student trains will still be packed out like they are in India? more Irish Fail logic at work!

I can't see many students taking the last service to Sligo, most collages finish up early on Fridays and best demand will probably be on the 17.05 service.

Is there a shortage of 22000's? how many were crashed/damaged? how many are currently mothballed or out of service long term?

Nope but there won't be enough for all service to be 6 coaches sets. Only a limited of services can be 6 or 7 car sets and of course Friday afternoon they will be in high demand.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I can't see many students taking the last service to Sligo, most collages finish up early on Fridays and best demand will probably be on the 17.05 service.



Nope but there won't be enough for all service to be 6 coaches sets. Only a limited of services can be 6 or 7 car sets and of course Friday afternoon they will be in high demand.

students will sometimes have sdudying or other extra curricular activities to undertake on friday and on other days.

There are plenty of 22000's on that Docklands-M4 Parkway route, these could be added to the Sligo and other routes and a few rail cars used for the M4 Parkway commuter services! Is there some big shot in government or Irish Rail living out that way that they are wasting the new trains on a route with disastrously low loadings apart from a few peak trains?

bikeman1

Anyone ever remember when on a Friday only the 1705 Sligo was first stop Longford? Those were the days. Storming along the canal with 8 Mk2s, sometimes more and a lovely 071 up front.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

So instead of fixing the issue by adding at least one carriage to a few trains and stopping people for Maynooth boarding in Connolly and Drumcondra they are going to Fúck it up for a load more passengers who will not be able to get their trains from Maynooth and the busy student trains will still be packed out like they are in India? more Irish Fail logic at work!

No you don't! You want people to stand aside to some fantastic clear area that does not exist so that a wheelchair can move into the space they were standing in, Then you say they can move back to where they were standing? are they to stand on the wheelchair user? And they must do all of this without any handrails.

Is there a shortage of 22000's? how many were crashed/damaged? how many are currently mothballed or out of service long term?

Foggy, read the last line of my post again .

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Foggy, read the last line of my post again .

That will not make you right.

end of the road

bikeman1 wrote: »

Anyone ever remember when on a Friday only the 1705 Sligo was first stop Longford? Those were the days. Storming along the canal with 8 Mk2s, sometimes more and a lovely 071 up front.

and for the rosslare services bray was the first stop, the 3 extra stops are handy but they could be dropped if it saves some time, it would save a few minutes which on the rosslare line is a lot of time

Captain Chaos

bikeman1 wrote: »

Anyone ever remember when on a Friday only the 1705 Sligo was first stop Longford? Those were the days. Storming along the canal with 8 Mk2s, sometimes more and a lovely 071 up front.

Sometimes it was even 10 Cravens and 2 GSVs. And that was only 6 or 7 years ago.

Victor

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's people like you who cause "no room" on the service....

I think that comment is unfair on the other user - they are just as entitled to use the service as anyone else.

Moderator

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

That will not make you right.

I think it does. Common sense should always come first.

Jamie2k9

Victor wrote: »

I think that comment is unfair on the other user - they are just as entitled to use the service as anyone else.

Moderator

fair enough but I'm sure you see the point behind it?

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Well enjoy it while it lasts as instead of restoring 6 piece sets, Maynooth will be dropped from some services to ease the problem somewhat. You have every right to travel on the service but its a bit rich coming on here complaining its over crowded.

Out of interest, where do you get this information from? What are your sources to back up this claim and many other claims as such of dropping peak Connolly-sligo services?

Jamie2k9

MDFM wrote: »

Out of interest, where do you get this information from? What are your sources to back up this claim and many other claims as such of dropping peak Connolly-sligo services?

If over crowding becomes an issue and commuter stops cause a lot of it they will drop the stops. They have done it on the Heuston side to ease the problem in the last timetable it will follow on the Connolly side, all services are not going to have capacity restored, some will but all won't.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If over crowding becomes an issue and commuter stops cause a lot of it they will drop the stops. They have done it on the Heuston side to ease the problem in the last timetable it will follow on the Connolly side, all services are not going to have capacity restored, some will but all won't.

So you are guessing really..Just cos they've done it on one timetable, doesn't mean the same will apply to another. Yes capacity may not be restored on all services, but in no way does that mean stops/services will be dropped. Either prove your information to be correct or just stop throwing out wild guesses as to what may or may not happen. Have Irish Rail confirmed any of your 'theories'?

Jamie2k9

MDFM wrote: »

So you are guessing really..Just cos they've done it on one timetable, doesn't mean the same will apply to another. Yes capacity may not be restored on all services, but in no way does that mean stops/services will be dropped. Either prove your information to be correct or just stop throwing out wild guesses as to what may or may not happen. Have Irish Rail confirmed any of your 'theories'?

So what will happen then?, its either capacity or stops cut to ease the problem. Why would they treat Sligo or Maynooth commuters any different to other lines?

Once the complains start coming in thick and fast they will act at some point.

MDFM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

So what will happen then?, its either capacity or stops cut to ease the problem. Why would they treat Sligo or Maynooth commuters any different to other lines?

Once the complains start coming in thick and fast they will act at some point.

Neither of which you know to be a dead cert...

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

If over crowding becomes an issue and commuter stops cause a lot of it they will drop the stops. They have done it on the Heuston side to ease the problem in the last timetable it will follow on the Connolly side, all services are not going to have capacity restored, some will but all won't.

On the Heuston side they removed most of the stops on intercity trains as far as Portlaoise and this coincided with increased frequency on the Portlaoise commuter and almost all the intercity trains still stop in Portlaoise or Portarlington to allow for connections for people between Heuston and Portlaoise going west and south-west, This seems to work very well and makes for quicker connections even though two or three trains are required.

On the sligo line they have already taken out all the stops that they can as far as Maynooth without affecting the core travellers that the service is aimed at which is those travelling to or from stops past Maynooth. The last thing needed is a situation where people must travel into Connolly from Maynooth, Leixlip, etc, to get the train to Kilcock or Mullingar or Sligo.

If Maynooth is removed from the Sligo train's itinerary in Heuston then anyone travelling to Maynooth on a Sligo train regardless of their ticket will be travelling without a ticket and can be fined as no ticket will allow any passenger to disembark at Maynooth.

Jamie2k9

foggy_lad wrote: »

On the Heuston side they removed most of the stops on intercity trains as far as Portlaoise and this coincided with increased frequency on the Portlaoise commuter and almost all the intercity trains still stop in Portlaoise or Portarlington to allow for connections for people between Heuston and Portlaoise going west and south-west, This seems to work very well and makes for quicker connections even though two or three trains are required.

On the sligo line they have already taken out all the stops that they can as far as Maynooth without affecting the core travellers that the service is aimed at which is those travelling to or from stops past Maynooth. The last thing needed is a situation where people must travel into Connolly from Maynooth, Leixlip, etc, to get the train to Kilcock or Mullingar or Sligo.

If Maynooth is removed from the Sligo train's itinerary in Heuston then anyone travelling to Maynooth on a Sligo train regardless of their ticket will be travelling without a ticket and can be fined as no ticket will allow any passenger to disembark at Maynooth.

There hasn't being a major change to peak services freq out of Heuston. They are not going to completely scrap Maynooth from services but out of 7 services a day I think we could see 5 serving and two not. Including the Longford commuter services between after 3 6 services stop in Maynooth and 4 go all the way to Sligo and two to Longford, a drop will affect next to nobody very much.

Now I'm a little board of going over the same thing and some people taking what I said out of context.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

There hasn't being a major change to peak services freq out of Heuston. They are not going to completely scrap Maynooth from services but out of 7 services a day I think we could see 5 serving and two not. Including the Longford commuter services between after 3 6 services stop in Maynooth and 4 go all the way to Sligo and two to Longford, a drop will affect next to nobody very much.

Now I'm a little board of going over the same thing and some people taking what I said out of context.

Quite a lot of people get on at Maynooth for all the Sligo services as it is the only train serving the stops along the line. It would be wrong to remove Maynooth as a stop, It would be easier on passengers all around to stop commuters from using the Sligo trains.

The answer to overcrowding is never to remove services but to rearrange them to cater for those in most need! In this case those going farther than Maynooth are in need while those only going to Maynooth should be forced onto the commuter service they fought so hard for!

Jamie2k9

foggy_lad wrote: »

Quite a lot of people get on at Maynooth for all the Sligo services as it is the only train serving the stops along the line. It would be wrong to remove Maynooth as a stop, It would be easier on passengers all around to stop commuters from using the Sligo trains.

The answer to overcrowding is never to remove services but to rearrange them to cater for those in most need! In this case those going farther than Maynooth are in need while those only going to Maynooth should be forced onto the commuter service they fought so hard for!

Do you have stats for everyday and all 6 evening services, if numbers are so good and revenue is great they won't drop them but of 6 services there is scope of changing services if over crowding continues to be a problem.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Do you have stats for everyday and all 6 evening services, if numbers are so good and revenue is great they won't drop them but of 6 services there is scope of changing services if over crowding continues to be a problem.

Unfortunately Irish Rail are not great at sharing such sensitive information but any train I have ever got to Maynooth(I used to live there) always had good numbers boarding.

To discommode all these passengers just because Irish Rail don't want to upset the posh gits from Maynooth that want to get the "express" Sligo train home would be very wrong and will lose the company more in the long run than they will ever gain from such a move.

SeanW

bikeman1 wrote: »

Anyone ever remember when on a Friday only the 1705 Sligo was first stop Longford? Those were the days. Storming along the canal with 8 Mk2s, sometimes more and a lovely 071 up front.

First stop was Mullingar on the 6PM Sligo train and it took 1 hour.

The new arrangement is OK, as I observed above there is no urgent need to kick Maynooth commuters off the trains outbound because they don't use it enough numbers, and there are usually near as many get on at Maynooth as get off. Inbound is another story, but then again all the people further out having priority in seating by virtue of having been there first, and I haven't seen the same issues with too few carriages as the evening trains. Not by a mile.

We need the trains to have enough capacity. A seat for all long-haul passengers from Meath to Sligo in the mornings, and similar numbers of carriages on all the peak hour trains ex-Connolly in the evenings.

Hilly Bill

You can get any train you want if that train stops at your destination. Its unworkable and pointless to prevent someone getting on a train that stops at their destination.

SeanW

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You can get any train you want if that train stops at your destination. Its unworkable and pointless to prevent someone getting on a train that stops at their destination.

It is a good idea in theory and it could be used on the Sligo line if the need ever arose, probably should be used on the Rosslare line.

If you think the idea is "unworkable and pointless" take a trip to New York City and try to use a Metro North New Haven Line train to go between Grand Central and Fordham ... you will find the idea of having "stops to pick up/drop off passengers only" works rather well and can be enforced.

Fred Swanson

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Hilly Bill

This is Ireland, try telling someone that they cant get on or off at a stop when a train stops there and see what happens. Once the doors are open then they will get on or off.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

This is Ireland, try telling someone that they cant get on or off at a stop when a train stops there and see what happens. Once the doors are open then they will get on or off.

And if they get off on platform 2 at Maynooth the only way out is the locked gate and the footbridge which can easily be covered by RPU staff, but this would not even be needed if people were not allowed board the train at Connolly. The concept is not hard to understand and I would think that Irish Rail would be glad of any extra revenue the fines might raise.

Jamie2k9

In Ireland it just won't work having pick up or drop off. It comes with too much cost involved staffing stations to fine passengers. Dropping a stop and even if it loses a few passengers is much more cost effective than running two extra coaches to Sligo and back again. It's simple economics. Just like cutting freq to Slgio in the last timetable, some passengers were put out by it but the cost savings are much more.

Most stations have armed police on platforms and people won't put a foot wrong, its Ireland and just not workable.

Don't come back at me with its public transport and passengers are important and all that spin as it doesn't justify it. Its about delivering savings to ease the annual are increases and in time for it to be invested to improve the network when losses are much less.

If BE dropped a stop on a major route, nobody would bat an eyelid.

Remember every engine on the 22 costs €6 per km, do the maths

Now not saying that a stop on some services will be dropped but it would go a long way to easing numbers, it won't work all the time but it does work in general on any route. The traveling public are very adaptable and its not as if a evening stop dropped wouldn't leave people waiting for hours.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

And if they get off on platform 2 at Maynooth the only way out is the locked gate and the footbridge which can easily be covered by RPU staff, but this would not even be needed if people were not allowed board the train at Connolly. The concept is not hard to understand and I would think that Irish Rail would be glad of any extra revenue the fines might raise.

Ive a better idea. Let people get on whatever train they have paid for.

end of the road

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Ive a better idea. Let people get on whatever train they have paid for.

not when their going short hop on a train for long distance passengers and taking seats from them when the short hop travelers have a train catering for them, its simple, the online and the TVM just doesn't show the times of the sligo trains when bringing up the times of trains to and from maynooth to dublin, same from graystones/bray to dublin when theirs a dart not far behind or leaving a few minutes before the trains to and from rosslare/wexford. dunlaoire can stay as its handy for people from stations on the line who rosslare ferry times mightn't suit, tara was handy for me back in the day but i was probably the only one who used it from wexford

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

not when their going short hop on a train for long distance passengers and taking seats from them when the short hop travelers have a train catering for them, its simple, the online and the TVM just doesn't show the times of the sligo trains when bringing up the times of trains to and from maynooth to dublin, same from graystones/bray to dublin when theirs a dart not far behind or leaving a few minutes before the trains to and from rosslare/wexford. dunlaoire can stay as its handy for people from stations on the line who rosslare ferry times mightn't suit, tara was handy for me back in the day but i was probably the only one who used it from wexford

They are not taking seats from anyone. If you want a seat then reserve it or otherwise its first come first served. Why overcrowd a different train just because those going to Sligo want a seat.?

end of the road

Hilly Bill wrote: »

They are not taking seats from anyone. If you want a seat then reserve it or otherwise its first come first served. Why overcrowd a different train just because those going to Sligo want a seat.?

because theirs a maynooth commuter which the trains operating on it can cope with standing and large crowds.

SeanW

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

In Ireland it just won't work having pick up or drop off. It comes with too much cost involved staffing stations to fine passengers.

That's just laziness, even Irish Rail could put up at least some effort.

Dropping a stop and even if it loses a few passengers is much more cost effective than running two extra coaches to Sligo and back again. It's simple economics. Just like cutting freq to Slgio in the last timetable, some passengers were put out by it but the cost savings are much more.

Most stations have armed police on platforms and people won't put a foot wrong, its Ireland and just not workable.

Don't come back at me with its public transport and passengers are important and all that spin as it doesn't justify it. Its about delivering savings to ease the annual are increases and in time for it to be invested to improve the network when losses are much less.

If BE dropped a stop on a major route, nobody would bat an eyelid.

Remember every engine on the 22 costs €6 per km, do the maths

Now not saying that a stop on some services will be dropped but it would go a long way to easing numbers, it won't work all the time but it does work in general on any route. The traveling public are very adaptable and its not as if a evening stop dropped wouldn't leave people waiting for hours.

You are missing a key point - the Maynooth stop is critical for connectivity. Drop it, and it becomes impossible or at least much harder, to do trips like Leixlip-Mulllingar, Drumcondra-Enfield or any combinations of that kind.

And make no mistake the ability to change at Maynooth is very important since the stop does have significant regional usage - as I know from first hand experience seeing people get on outbound trains at Maynooth and from some time back using Maynooth as a transfer point when I lived just outside the CC some a few years back.

The question should be how to do these kinds of stops in a smarter way.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

because theirs a maynooth commuter which the trains operating on it can cope with standing and large crowds.

Which are already busy at peak times. Nothing wrong with spreading the load.

Why should someone going to Maynooth have to wait for a different train and stand all the way when there is a train about to leave with plenty of seats available which stops in Maynooth? It doesnt make sense.

Hilly Bill

SeanW wrote: »

That's just laziness, even Irish Rail could put up at least some effort.



Tell me how you would manage to stop people boarding the Sligo train on plat 4 that are going to Maynooth on a 7 piece train?

end of the road

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Which are already busy at peak times. Nothing wrong with spreading the load.

Why should someone going to Maynooth have to wait for a different train and stand all the way when there is a train about to leave with plenty of seats available which stops in Maynooth? It doesnt make sense.

because their wasn't plenty of seats as people going to maynooth refused to use the commuter service that was faught so hard for, if a train is very overcrowded then those who have an alternative train have to get off, the best way of minimising this problem is to not show the times of the sligo trains when booking to and from dublin maynooth either online or at the TVM, staff don't mention the sligo train either and the anouncements for the sligo train don't anounce maynooth as a stop

Fred Swanson

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LXFlyer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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That would be next to impossible to enforce as there is only one set of barriers in Connolly for all services.

You would have to restrict the Sligo services to operate from platform 3 and have a second ticket check at the platform entrance.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

because their wasn't plenty of seats as people going to maynooth refused to use the commuter service that was faught so hard for, if a train is very overcrowded then those who have an alternative train have to get off, the best way of minimising this problem is to not show the times of the sligo trains when booking to and from dublin maynooth either online or at the TVM, staff don't mention the sligo train either and the anouncements for the sligo train don't anounce maynooth as a stop

Do you suggest to delay the train so that you can unload all the Maynooth passengers. If Irish Rail attempted to do that then this board would be on overload.
Are you suggesting also that the Sligo train becomes a secret train just for those going past Maynooth and that they sneek onto it without the others seeing??????
There are plenty of seats on the Sligo train, its just busier every now and then thats all.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Which are already busy at peak times. Nothing wrong with spreading the load.

Why should someone going to Maynooth have to wait for a different train and stand all the way when there is a train about to leave with plenty of seats available which stops in Maynooth? It doesnt make sense.

How do you make a train that is packed to the doors suddenly turn into one with plenty of seats?? What are you smoking?

SeanW

lxflyer wrote: »

That would be next to impossible to enforce as there is only one set of barriers in Connolly for all services.

You would have to restrict the Sligo services to operate from platform 3 and have a second ticket check at the platform entrance.

That's one way.

The other would be to take a leaf from the book of the Metro North Railroad in New York and have RPU officers on the train from Connolly to Maynooth, checking tickets.

Though given that the difference in fares between GCT-Fordham and GCT-Stamford is potentially much larger than Connolly-Maynooth and Connolly-Kilcock, the disincentive would have to be the the penalty fare. You could still beat it by buying a one-way Maynooth-Connolly in the morning and a Connolly-Kilcock in the evening but that would be expensive.

Are you suggesting also that the Sligo train becomes a secret train just for those going past Maynooth

DUH! Connolly-Maynooth faces many of the same issues with rat-running as Grand Central Terminal to Fordham does, and the option of implementing a restricted-stop regime should be open.

There are plenty of seats on the Sligo train, its just busier every now and then thats all.

No, the Sligo/Longford trains are busy, full stop, and Irish Rail is dicking around with the carriage-lengths. If the Connolly-Maynooth loading gets any larger, or they continue running peak hour trains with 4 carriages, there will be a need to examine how the Maynooth stop is implemented.

foggy_lad

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Do you suggest to delay the train so that you can unload all the Maynooth passengers. If Irish Rail attempted to do that then this board would be on overload.
Are you suggesting also that the Sligo train becomes a secret train just for those going past Maynooth and that they sneek onto it without the others seeing??????
There are plenty of seats on the Sligo train, its just busier every now and then thats all.

There would be no delays if maynooth passengers were not let onto the Sligo trains at all.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

How do you make a train that is packed to the doors suddenly turn into one with plenty of seats?? What are you smoking?

The 19:05 last Friday Foggy is not the only Sligo train.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

There would be no delays if maynooth passengers were not let onto the Sligo trains at all.

Be honest Foggy, if you was prevented from boarding a train that stops at your destination, what would be your reaction?