Lets be honest - its mostly about the bike - FTP 2014

Fazz

MD1983 wrote: »

what would be interesting to know if anybody does is what wattage it takes to go under 1hr 10mins at HOTW (assuming a good aero set up....!)?

AP 268
NP 276
W/kg 4.01

Not my best showing but think I was around the 1:08 mark for Kilkee.

Fazz

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|350|5.38|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!
ronanmac|198||||||||||198|2.71|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MrTango|231||||||||||231|3.25|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
Fazz|||||||||||tbc|tbc|326|5.1|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq

tunney

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|300|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!
ronanmac|198||||||||||198|2.71|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MrTango|231||||||||||231|3.25|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
Fazz|||||||||||tbc|tbc|326|5.1|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq

I just made my original targets up to annoy Fran

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

AP 268
NP 276
W/kg 4.01

Not my best showing but think I was around the 1:08 mark for Kilkee.

You have a good position, are slight (weight and broadness) and have kick ass kit!

Add a few watts on for most IMHO

Fazz

tunney wrote: »

You have a good position, are slight (weight and broadness) and have kick ass kit!

Add a few watts on for most IMHO

Or take a few watts off for the draft kings that sucked my and others wheels!!! ;-) :-D

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Mr Tango wrote: »

Curious as to how people are picking their targets.

Scientific or finger in the air?

Also interesting as to the w/kg targets - the gains from weight loss and just from pushing more power.

Personally I can't see more than 2-3kg drop for me so its just going to have to be lots of good bike sessions.

Can only speak for myself but for me its scientific/previous data over the last two years. I know what i have been able to hold in the past (298w) and know the weight i can realistically get to. I think 290w this time around is realistic given i will have less time to commit to the bike in the early part of next year and i now know that i cannot hold .95 of my T20 figure for the hour (figure i used in previous years)

MD1983

Fazz wrote: »

AP 268
NP 276
W/kg 4.01

Not my best showing but think I was around the 1:08 mark for Kilkee.

that to me is frustrating, i was at 280 average power on a QUARQ for 1hr 15mins in HOTW, i thought i had a good aero setup but then maybe i dont. i have no reason to believe my PM is off as i have tested on other ones and its seems consistent to me. I dont think weight (something close to 82kg) would account for the 7 minute difference

thanks for the info though - much appreciated - great time BTW

shotgunmcos

280w at 82kg at Kilkee for 1:15.. not too far off. How does it stack up to other results? Would you be sub 65 on a flat ish 40TT after a swim

MD1983

bit of help wanted if anybody has a good experience of heart rate and power. see two links below to tonights 1hr turbo workout. workout was sufferfest - the one where you do liege bastogne liege, a climb in paris nice and alpe duez to finish. the links are to the climb at PN and alpe duez. The climb starts with 4 mins easy recovery (PE of 4) then climbs to a PE of 6 and then jumps between 7-8 and then to a PE of 8.5 or so: see link

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/406404482

the second is to the alpe duez, it surges back and forth between 7-9 of PE

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/406404490

anybody with experience of heart rate and power help me out, at 320-330 watts i feel as if i can hold for a long time, 340-350 maybe 10-15 mins, more than that in watts terms it feels less sustainable, maybe 5 mins. yet the heart rates never change that much - seems to be a band of 10 beats per minute. i know there is a HR lag but still i am curious, why 158 feels like a good maintainable effort and 168-170 feels more like a 5 min effort!

thanks in advance for any insights

bryangiggsy

MD1983 wrote: »

that to me is frustrating, i was at 280 average power on a QUARQ for 1hr 15mins in HOTW, i thought i had a good aero setup but then maybe i dont. i have no reason to believe my PM is off as i have tested on other ones and its seems consistent to me. I dont think weight (something close to 82kg) would account for the 7 minute difference

thanks for the info though - much appreciated - great time BTW

. Watts per kg a big factor in kilkee imo. Fazz at least 15 kg lighter. Dont despair.

MD1983

yes - sub 1hr 5min, best average last year was 39kph for 44k on flat course

MD1983

i am down to 78kg now so its getting closer....! power is up which is good, was expecting a struggle with weight loss but not so

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

MD1983 wrote: »

bit of help wanted if anybody has a good experience of heart rate and power. see two links below to tonights 1hr turbo workout. workout was sufferfest - the one where you do liege bastogne liege, a climb in paris nice and alpe duez to finish. the links are to the climb at PN and alpe duez. The climb starts with 4 mins easy recovery (PE of 4) then climbs to a PE of 6 and then jumps between 7-8 and then to a PE of 8.5 or so: see link

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/406404482

the second is to the alpe duez, it surges back and forth between 7-9 of PE

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/406404490

anybody with experience of heart rate and power help me out, at 320-330 watts i feel as if i can hold for a long time, 340-350 maybe 10-15 mins, more than that in watts terms it feels less sustainable, maybe 5 mins. yet the heart rates never change that much - seems to be a band of 10 beats per minute. i know there is a HR lag but still i am curious, why 158 feels like a good maintainable effort and 168-170 feels more like a 5 min effort!

thanks in advance for any insights

Have you established what your LTHR is on the bike? A 30min all out effort hitting lap at the 10min mark and you take the last 20mins AHR, this will determine LTHR. 295W is your FTP judging from the table so not surprising that 340-350w is tough, it is 120% of your FTP. If you are saying that you can feel you can hold 320-330w for a long time then it would suggest your 295w FTP is understated by about 30w.

EDIT: As a matter of interest what was your AHR on the last 20min effort posted that resulted in 295w?

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

. Watts per kg a big factor in kilkee imo. Fazz at least 15 kg lighter. Dont despair.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/338256844

400m climbing over 44km. It is NOT a hilly course. watts/kg is not as important as you want it to be on that course.

MD1983

thanks - i have no idea yet what my LTHR is, i will look into it over the next few weeks. i will see whether what i feel is sustainable is actually sustainable when i test again in December! hopefully that is and i have improved from where i was

i have had issues with my garmin HR soft strap i got with my 910xt so i am only back using the HR monitor when i switched back to the hard strap i got with my garmin 305.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

MD1983 wrote: »

thanks - i have no idea yet what my LTHR is, i will look into it over the next few weeks. i will see whether what i feel is sustainable is actually sustainable when i test again in December! hopefully that is and i have improved from where i was

i have had issues with my garmin HR soft strap i got with my 910xt so i am only back using the HR monitor when i switched back to the hard strap i got with my garmin 305.

I would not get hung up on HR too much, whilst its nice to know what your LTHR is on the bike most people using a PM use power as primary data and hr as secondary to make sure nothing untoward is going on such as illness, tiredness etc.

MD1983

tunney wrote: »

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/338256844

400m climbing over 44km. It is NOT a hilly course. watts/kg is not as important as you want it to be on that course.

tend to agree that weight is not the factor that gives the big time difference

analyticcycling.com provides a tool to work out the expected time difference and you can enter watts weight elevation etc

Fazz

tunney wrote: »

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/338256844

400m climbing over 44km. It is NOT a hilly course. watts/kg is not as important as you want it to be on that course.

It was quite a strong head wind for the whole way back this year.
Not sure if w/kg helps in this situ or pure aero being the main factor?

Always felt like headwinds gives a similar return to hills but perhaps more an aero factor would make sense for this?

Hard to see aero giving me a 7 min advantage over someone pushing an extra 10-20 watts?
Id have thought any aero advantage, if there is even a diff between us would likely allow for maybe 10-20 watts meaning times should be the same?

I think the w/kg is the main factor myself, despite it not being hilly it was windy.

How else would you explain the diff?
Aero could hardly be 40watts diff?

MD1983

check this out

http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesLessWeight_Page.html

if you put in a model for hill climbs you can see the impact of weight over watts

from that you might estimate 2-3 mins advantage from less weight in HOTW between yours and mine at the given wattages

that leaves a few minutes for aero which is plausible given the size difference and frontal area of my 82kg vs your 60 something kg and possible equipment differences etc! mystery solved..!

i am thinking i would need 320-340 watts to go 1hr 8min in HOTW on last years conditions

tunney

Fazz wrote: »

It was quite a strong head wind for the whole way back this year.
Not sure if w/kg helps in this situ or pure aero being the main factor?

Winds would make aero more important and weight would have no impact

Fazz wrote: »

Always felt like headwinds gives a similar return to hills but perhaps more an aero factor would make sense for this?

Hard to see aero giving me a 7 min advantage over someone pushing an extra 10-20 watts?
Id have thought any aero advantage, if there is even a diff between us would likely allow for maybe 10-20 watts meaning times should be the same?

I think the w/kg is the main factor myself, despite it not being hilly it was windy.

How else would you explain the diff?
Aero could hardly be 40watts diff?

How would I explain the difference?

Your kit is top notch, thats significant.
Your position looked aero in that Blacksod.

Your position is good/ By that I mean you can have an aero position (what people tend to get when they get fitter in alot of places) and you can have a good position. An aero position is great but if you don't hold it its not a good one.

I suspect you can ride your bike. That means you probably take a good line in/out of corners and don't excessively brake. You may climb and descend on the bars when others sit up.

You probably don't break aero to drink/eat either.

There is your forty watts.

Good kit with an aero position that you hold and you can ride your bike.

BennyMul

imo there are more variables here to hit a time than just power.

Bike skills to maintain speed in and out of corners,
Position out of the water, further back and you are going to meet traffic.
Ability to pace correctly and adjust accordinly to the weather conditions.

bryangiggsy

BennyMul wrote: »

imo there are more variables here to hit a time than just power.

Bike skills to maintain speed in and out of corners,
Position out of the water, further back and you are going to meet traffic.
Ability to pace correctly and adjust accordinly to the weather conditions.

Fazz went by me in Kilkee on the bike like i was not there.(cue tunney abuse) People can come up with any reason they like ...what i saw was power and strength

trinewbie

Fazz's bike is Red. Red bikes are faster.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

trinewbie wrote: »

Fazz's bike is Red. Red bikes are faster.

Wind tunnel tests have shown red bikes save 25w.

BennyMul

Zoey Skinny Redcoat wrote: »

Wind tunnel tests have shown red bikes save 25w.

by that logic, gingers on red bikes will save 50w +

tunney

BennyMul wrote: »

by that logic, gingers on red bikes will save 50w +

Yes and in hot weather ironman races they get faster as the race goes on #sunburn

mossym

trinewbie wrote: »

Fazz's bike is Red. Red bikes are faster.

imagine what it could do with one of these

pgibbo

User|Nov|Dec|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Current FTP|Watts/kg|Target FTP|Target Watts/kg|Test|Unit
Tunney|250||||||||||250|3.04|300|4.28|T5+T20*0.95|SRMs
J0hn1|282||||||||||282|3.66|350|4.79|T5+T20*0.95|Tacx Flow
Jackyback|250||||||||||250|3.57|290|4.46|T5+T20*0.925|SRMs
Couerdelion|269||||||||||269|2.39|360|4.00|T5+T20*0.925|Power2Max
MD1983|295||||||||||295|3.70|340|4.25|1hr+T20*0.95|SRAM
El Director|250||||||||||295|3.1|310|4.2|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
Bryangiggsy|233|||||||||||3.03|||T5+T20*0.95|SRM
duffyshuffle|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.925|Powertap
Amphkingwest|-|||||||||||-|||T5+T20*0.95|Polar BABY!!
ronanmac|198||||||||||198|2.71|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
MrTango|231||||||||||231|3.25|||T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max
Fazz|||||||||||tbc|tbc|326|5.1|T5+T20*0.95|Quarq
pgibbo|269||||||||||269|3.71|304|4.25|T5+T20*0.95|Power2Max

A very badly paced 5 Here's the file

EoghanRooney

Should I use my road bike or TT bike on the turbo? Any reason for one over the other?

pgibbo

I switch between both