phonewatch - old or new?

altor

I am not talking about a dualcom, but if GPRS is used it can be set up to poll if needs be.

KoolKid

But even with polling etc, little or no action is taken.
Remember this is the company who used to set up 168 hour auto tests.:rolleyes:

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

But even with polling etc, little or no action is taken.
Remember this is the company who used to set up 168 hour auto tests.:rolleyes:

If polling is set up on a Dualcom for 3 minutes then it is only flagged 15 minutes later as they have to miss 5 polls. Waste of time. Auto test is a joke, it really needs a poll and an action that can be taken, as it is none can be only to ring the customer to check it out.

KoolKid

I discussed this with a few station managers. A duel path fail should be treated as an attack.

altor

I agree but they are only allowed contact the keyholders.
15 Minutes before it is flagged is also something they should look at.

notaplumber

Gents,

I'm due to have Phonewatch call to my house this Wednesday to have the wireless system installed as explained the the OP. Again, it's €699, and as discussed, it operates over the GSM network.

The wireless system does not have the same amount of sensors as the OP's wired system...
I get........
1 Keypad
1 Door Contact
4 Motion sensors (PIR) with integrated cameras.
1 Smoke alarm sensor
1 Bellbox
4 keyfobs...(To arm/disarm the system)

Am I really wasting my money, (Even though I don't have to pay until 1st March 2014)?

Should I look at a different provider.

Just like "danindublin', I too have approached two companies in the past, one of which is a large company, whose systems I have seen at my local dentist etc. I had originally seen them displaying their wares at the Ideal homes exhibition a few years ago, and was shown the CCTV set-up, and how you could remotely view numerous camera feeds on your iPhone/ipad. However, having left my details with the REP on the day, he never got back to me. About 6 months later I made another appointment with the same company to view my house to quote me for installation....... I took the day off work, waited all day......... Another no show!

I contacted them the following day to be told, "Oh my wife went into labour so I had to go to the hospital".

Very unprofessional of his wife I must say:):)

Seriously though, I can see how the "Ease of contact" with Phonewatch helped him decide, as I too had been "messed around" by other independent companies.

Based on the above, I am looking for a monitored alarm to be installed in my semi detached home, along with 2 or 3 camera on the exterior of the property which I can access remotely on my iPhone etc from abroad..........

Can anybody advise?

I have in the past purchased "Wifi cctv cameras" from ebay etc, and have never had any success with them........ UPC modem protocols etc, (Something I have no idea about).........

So I, like the OP am willing to pay somebody to install a good reliable system as described above............

Any company want my money, other than Phonewatch??

Cheers

KoolKid

The whole phone watch model is is based on the quick impulse sale where you are not going to look anywhere else or do your research and compare.
The spec above is not giving you the security you need.
You have no perimeter protection so someone has to be in the house before the system even activates.
Is there a live external bell included in that price or is that an optional extra???
Is GSM the only form of monitoring? If this is all PW are using now that's putting a big target on your home for anyone with a GSM jammer that costs less than €50. For the first time a burglar will now know for sure that a property is using GSM only for alarm reporting.
As for the PiRs with the cameras????
Do you really want a system in your home where ARC controllers have access to images from inside your own home???
If anyone I know installed this I would not be comfortable setting foot inside their home.
Ask them why can't you connect to their station using another provider like UPC etc.
Ask them do they have a secure radio options if you are not comfortable with the risks of jamming.
They will tell you there is no risk of GSM jamming. Then ask this simple question..
Can your monitoring be jammed by a GSM jammer? It's a yes or no answer. If they say no ask for it in writing.
I could go on and on, but when you have a model where sales reps with no installation experience, or no experience of what different systems can do are designing your system, you are getting what suits them not you..
Why do PW only sell the one panel???
I don't know any other company that does that...

notaplumber

KoolKid,

I absolutely agree with everything you say.......
I asked the sales rep about the "Jamming aspect".......... Answer....." It has not happened to Phonewatch systems". (Although I suppose if it's a new system to PW in the Irish market then there hasn't been time yet for it to happen, so I take your point.

As for having "Cameras inside your home that others have access to......... I have to contact PW later today and ask them what exactly are the conditions that cause the cameras to "Take and transmit pictures to their monitoring building"....... I wonder if the cameras are triggered only in an "Alarm situation" or can the monitoring staff have access to the cameras independent of any alarm situation. (In fact only yesterday, I was chatting with my other half, and as we sat on the sofa watching TV, we discussed if we would be comfortable with a camera attached to the wall ...the answer was an absolute NO!).. So we have at this point decided to literally put a folded piece of card or similar over the lens to block the view whenever we are in the house, and only remove it when we are leaving for the day or heading to bed at night). Ideal set-up....absolutely not.

Yes, GSM is the only form of monitoring they provide....

The Bell box....... from their website it looks like a standard working bell box, but I'll confirm that with them when I contact them.

As for your other points, I agree, but as stated by the OP, and also in my post, I have had no luck with any other company and would be more than willing to spend good money on a good system, the requirements of which I outlined in my previous post.

Thanks for reply.

KoolKid

Re the answer to jamming. What else are they going to say? It's a very vague statement and very hard to prove either way.
Ask has there ever been an alarm activation that they have never received? The answer from every station I know would be a yes. How can you say, or prove, any missed report was not due to jamming.
Another concern of mine re GSM, is how vulnerable you property is on any new years eve for a period of about 6 hours??
Re the cameras, I,d imagine the answer will be they are only viewable after an alarm. How can you be sure, I don't know. The fact that the connection is there would be too much for me. Even if it is only on alarms, what happens if you come stumbling down early some morning half dressed and accidentally set it off????
Not something I want to even think about?
Likewise if there is an activation at night the first thing you do is jump up. You and not going to stop to get dressed etc...
The fact that you are contemplating covering them up means shows that you are being sold a system that does not suit your needs.
Believe me there are plenty of companies out there that will do a much better system for you.
You may have been unlucky, but shop around.
Also did PW come out and do a survey /risk assessment of your property?
Did they provide you with a detailed system design proposal?
These are requirements of EN50131.

danindub

Mod Edit:<Snip>
Content removed.
Installers here are not allowed recommend themselves or others on thread.
Secondly, to call a company or company's that you haven't used cowboys is not very fair now is it.?

KoolKid

To explain the above edit further:
From the forum charter.

Advertising
In short advertising is not allowed. However professionals here who contribute to the forum may, discreetly, post a text only link in their sig.
Openly touting for business is not allowed. Offering quotes, offering phone numbers etc is also not allowed.

Posts opened by any user to thank someone for their service or recommending a company will also be removed and treated as free advertisement, and will be removed.

The main idea of this forum was to have those who know helping those who don't. We intend to keep it that way.
Any contributing users here ,who are in the business, may have their contact details posted in the sticky.
If someone wants to approach them then they should initiate contact.
Obvious advertising will not be permitted. Do not register a new account just to come on & promote your business. The link will be deleted & your account will be banned.
Shilling is where a company or individual comes on highly recommending themselves or giving constant praise or recommendation . Likewise when an individual constantly posts recommendations & praise repeatedly for the same company.
If you are asked in a post for recommendations thats fine, anything else is shilling, this is also not allowed.
If someone here helps you out with something its fine to post thanks, providing it is in your own thread and/or in context to the issues you have had. Random or repetitive praise would be considered either shilling or off topic & will be deleted.

Some of the installers here are listed in this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055956748
There is also a link to the PSA register of licensed installers there as well.

altor

notaplumber wrote: »

Gents,

I'm due to have Phonewatch call to my house this Wednesday to have the wireless system installed as explained the the OP. Again, it's €699, and as discussed, it operates over the GSM network.

The wireless system does not have the same amount of sensors as the OP's wired system...
I get........
1 Keypad
1 Door Contact
4 Motion sensors (PIR) with integrated cameras.
1 Smoke alarm sensor
1 Bellbox
4 keyfobs...(To arm/disarm the system)

A system like this is just giving you a false sense of security.
Perimeter protection backed up by 2 or more motion detectors is the way to go. I would ask P.W. for a quotation to cove same.

KoolKid

+1. It can be very deceiving when you are been quoted something not designed with your security in mind. You need to be quoting like with like.
If a correct survey was done on your property the detection equipment should be pretty similar.

KoolKid

+1. It can be very deceiving when you are been quoted something not designed with your security in mind. You need to be quoting like with like.
If a correct survey was done on your property the detection equipment should be pretty similar.
I have to say, I'm loving this new system of theirs.;)
Quoted 2 jobs against PW this week & got both of them.

altor

Very easy to sell a system like this over the phone. No real protection.

Just peace of mind as they say..

Evolution1

I don't like the idea of them only using GSM, there basically advertising that their system will fail if a GSM is used. Any phonewatch bell I see now basically screams out " look how easy it is to rob us !".
I do like the idea of the PIR cams as it would entice the Garda to respond quicker but I wouldn't like the alarm to go off during the night and realise that I'm wearing boxers while a monitoring station can see me cause I ran to turn off the alarm !. If they only came on for arming away and only sent photos/video for alarm activations then fine. I love that they have an app that quickly !
They didn't think the system through fully .
What's the name of the system they're using ?

danindub

how is cutting off the phone line any more challenging?

KoolKid

@ Daindub..As per the forum charter, please do not discuss moderation on thread.
Your first post was deleted because you were calling company's you haven't used cowboys. Your next was deleted for discussing moderation.
.
All nothing to do with pro or anti PW.

KoolKid

danindub wrote: »

how is cutting off the phone line any more challenging?

Cutting the phone line requires physical tampering ,jamming requires no physical attack on anything.

Evolution1

My phone line comes in through the foundation . There's no cabinet outside or no pole supplying the line .
Also some alarms are capable of being monitored over ip . If the line drops the monitoring centre won't receive the poll

altor

Evolution1 wrote: »

My phone line comes in through the foundation . There's no cabinet outside or no pole supplying the line .
Also some alarms are capable of being monitored over ip . If the line drops the monitoring centre won't receive the poll

Dont let not being able to see the line fool you. Eircom need access to the line for servicing. Its never too far from your home

danindub

Evolution1 wrote: »

I don't like the idea of them only using GSM, there basically advertising that their system will fail if a GSM is used. Any phonewatch bell I see now basically screams out " look how easy it is to rob us !".

And how would you know if they've got GSM and not phone line system?? This makes as much sense as with any other monitored alarm provider...

KoolKid

Not if PW are going down the road of GSM only.
Which it appears is the case.
We already know they have no radio option.

danindub

KoolKid wrote: »

Cutting the phone line requires physical tampering ,jamming requires no physical attack on anything.

Cutting phone line doesn't require any hardware, either...You pull the cable out and you can see the result.

With jamming - it's still a game - you won't know for 100% if you jammed it ... especially if you don't know where the GSM device is...?

danindub

KoolKid wrote: »

Not if PW are going down the road of GSM only.
Which it appears is the case.
We already know they have no radio option.

Yes, from November 1st. What about systems installed prior to that? How will you be able to tell?

SpaceTime

I'd still argue GSM's probably safer than landline monitoring given that landlines are usually extremely insecure and can be very easily tampered with in most installations as they were never intended to be a security device.

Very, very few phone lines are totally out of view / hidden or inaccessible.

I know they can be hardened and disguised but, even then if someone's absolutely determined they'll be able to damage the line.

On the camera sensors thing, there's no way I would have remote monitored CCTV inside my home. It's one thing having your own cameras that you can view yourself, or take cards out of and view afterwards, but if it's going to some monitoring centre, that's just creepy!

KoolKid

Their new bells are different. Eircom has been removed from the name. The newer ones just say Phone watch.

danindub

KoolKid wrote: »

Their new bells are different. Eircom has been removed from the name. The newer ones just say Phone watch.

"Eircom" has been removed for almost a year now from bell boxes... Still back in the phone line systems.

SpaceTime

I would say they'd be completely mad to drop the PhoneWatch brand in favour of Sector though. PhoneWatch is a huge operation nearly half the size of Sector itself and it has a very, very well established brand in Ireland.

danindub

SpaceTime wrote: »

I would say they'd be completely mad to drop the PhoneWatch brand in favour of Sector though. PhoneWatch is a huge operation nearly half the size of Sector itself and it has a very, very well established brand in Ireland.

I don't think they are dropping "PhoneWatch". Just "Eircom".