Ireland V Samoa team announcement and build up thread.

.ak

geekington wrote: »

When talking about D'Arcy, I remember something that Will Greenwood mentioned before one Leinsters Heineken cup games last year. He said that D'Arcy has "spent a career making others look good at the expensive of himself". I think this really sums him up. He is a fantastic player but knows his limits and has a fantastic ability to bring others in to the game with his passing game - which I think is right up there as one of the most technically brilliant from all Irish players. If you spend a bit of time watching him you rarely see him through a pass that isn't positioned so that the player is running on it to and not having a check their run. It really is a joy to behold.

Secondly, out of interest - In Aus, NZ etc.. - have supporters ever complained like some sections of our country do about the relative lack of players from their own locality - I'm thinking Canterbury (or South Island) players being picked ahead of other North Island players. I assume there isn't the bickering we have here?

Not by Swiwi anyway!

I think the 'tribalism' effect is fairly rife here in Ireland. But I don't think it's a bad thing. Competition breeds success. Although the model in NZ obviously works.

Rightwing

geekington wrote: »

When talking about D'Arcy, I remember something that Will Greenwood mentioned before one Leinsters Heineken cup games last year. He said that D'Arcy has "spent a career making others look good at the expensive of himself". I think this really sums him up. He is a fantastic player but knows his limits and has a fantastic ability to bring others in to the game with his passing game - which I think is right up there as one of the most technically brilliant from all Irish players. If you spend a bit of time watching him you rarely see him through a pass that isn't positioned so that the player is running on it to and not having a check their run. It really is a joy to behold.

Secondly, out of interest - In Aus, NZ etc.. - have supporters ever complained like some sections of our country do about the relative lack of players from their own locality - I'm thinking Canterbury (or South Island) players being picked ahead of other North Island players. I assume there isn't the bickering we have here?

That happens everywhere, soccer, rugby, any sport. So much so to the point that a coach almost has to represent a number of teams or interest will wane.

geekington

Yeah, thats what I found when I was done in NZ. They only care about the success of the national team and everyone is so proud of being a Kiwi that the tribalism piece doesn't come in to it.

To be fair Ireland has a long and colourful history where the tibalism is a product of the development of the nation but perhaps the rugby thread isn't the place to discuss..!!!

Hurk

Rightwing wrote: »

That happens everywhere, soccer, rugby, any sport. So much so to the point that a coach almost has to represent a number of teams or interest will wane.

I really don't think that is the case.

Rightwing

Hurk wrote: »

I really don't think that is the case.

I can't imagine the whole of England getting behind the English team if it were a man utd XI for instance

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Rightwing wrote: »

I can't imagine the whole of England getting behind the English team if it were a man utd XI for instance

Suppose there'll be no one from Connacht supporting Ireland Saturday so?:rolleyes:

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

That happens everywhere, soccer, rugby, any sport. So much so to the point that a coach almost has to represent a number of teams or interest will wane.

There are so, so many examples of that not being the case.

Rightwing

Buer wrote: »

There are so, so many examples of that not being the case.

Think of the Lions, I need say no more.

thomond2006

One example makes buer's point invalid. Solid argument by liammur/rightwing again, no question about that!

siochain

Rightwing wrote: »

I can't imagine the whole of England getting behind the English team if it were a man utd XI for instance

people from manchester support MANU and there's feck all of the team from manchester

Larbre34

Due to the number of Leinster players in the 23 that point was put to Donal Lenihan on Game On last night, and as a former Ireland manager he says its nonsense, no head coach he has ever known has been compelled or requested, officially or off the record to play a selection that represents the provinces numerically.

connemara man

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Suppose there'll be no one from Connacht supporting Ireland Saturday so?:rolleyes:

rabble rabble rabble wheres Henshaw rabble rabble rabble ;):pac:

Riskymove

.ak wrote: »

I think the 'tribalism' effect is fairly rife here in Ireland. But I don't think it's a bad thing. Competition breeds success. Although the model in NZ obviously works.

the problem is that for a long time there has been only two teams dominating the Irish team, both going through periods of dominance...with bitterness and gloating swapping sides.....the whole Kidney thing doesn't help obviously

If the English team was made up of only Liverpool and Manchester players I assure you it would be much worse than we have here


...and it is also only really a recent thing, years ago I don't recall any such issues when it came to the Irish Team itself...I would hate to think that people would not want Ireland to do well simply because there were not enough people from "their" club!

Grimebox

Larbre34 wrote: »

Due to the number of Leinster players in the 23 that point was put to Donal Lenihan on Game On last night, and as a former Ireland manager he says its nonsense, no head coach he has ever known has been compelled or requested, officially or off the record to play a selection that represents the provinces numerically.

Can this be added to the charter so everyone can shut the fcuk up about it? It was bad enough when Kidney was coach, Schmidt has named his first team and its already begun. Claiming a coach has a provincal bias literally serves no purpose

Riskymove

siochain wrote: »

people from manchester support MANU and there's feck all of the team from manchester

sure people support Munster and Leinster who have plenty of non-natives!

some of the Leinster players in the squad are actually from Munster FFS

desertcircus

Rightwing wrote: »

I can't imagine the whole of England getting behind the English team if it were a man utd XI for instance

In 1949, ten of the Italian football team's players were from Torino FC. The entire Torinese team died in a plane crash that year, though, and the club has never really recovered.

There is an element of tribalism in a lot of sports, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it so ingrained and mainstream as it is in Irish rugby. That said, I suspect it's primarily the result of Kidney picking from a team shaped in his own image for some time (which looked uncomfortably like a Munster bias), and has followed on with a degree of backlash with Schmidt. I suspect and hope that after a year or two under Joe, the hubbub will die down and people will be less obsessed with the precise numbers of players in each squad.

Riskymove

Grimebox wrote: »

Can this be added to the charter so everyone can shut the fcuk up about it? It was bad enough when Kidney was coach, Schmidt has named his first team and its already begun. Claiming a coach has a provincal bias literally serves no purpose

Lenihan is dealing with a different point...the idea that Coaches are instructed to pick certain numbers from certain provinces (i.e. the old chestnut that there had to be some Ulster players etc)

He is not talking about provincial bias by the coach

Riskymove

desertcircus wrote: »

I suspect and hope that after a year or two under Joe, the hubbub will die down and people will be less obsessed with the precise numbers of players in each squad.

the strange thing is that any analysis will show Kidney picking far more Leinster players than Munster in squads over the last period

Larbre34

Grimebox wrote: »

Can this be added to the charter so everyone can shut the fcuk up about it? It was bad enough when Kidney was coach, Schmidt has named his first team and its already begun. Claiming a coach has a provincal bias literally serves no purpose

Can me talking about current discussion in the media about a point some fans like to debate be put in the charter? How about no.

reported.

errlloyd

desertcircus wrote: »

In 1949, ten of the Italian football team's players were from Torino FC. The entire Torinese team died in a plane crash that year, though, and the club has never really recovered.

Do I remember a Warren Gatland game with 13 starting ospreys?

EDIT: Yes I do

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/jan/30/rugbyunion.sixnations1

There is also this quote from the middle of the article.

"Munster were the best team in Ireland then but we mixed and matched when it came to selection, and that was wrong," he admitted. "We should have reflected the form side in the country. The side for Twickenham is not about where players are based but form. The Ospreys have done well in their two cross-border tournaments this season and there are not 13 players from one team by design."

Rightwing

desertcircus wrote: »

In 1949, ten of the Italian football team's players were from Torino FC. The entire Torinese team died in a plane crash that year, though, and the club has never really recovered.

There is an element of tribalism in a lot of sports, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it so ingrained and mainstream as it is in Irish rugby. That said, I suspect it's primarily the result of Kidney picking from a team shaped in his own image for some time (which looked uncomfortably like a Munster bias), and has followed on with a degree of backlash with Schmidt. I suspect and hope that after a year or two under Joe, the hubbub will die down and people will be less obsessed with the precise numbers of players in each squad.

Didn't know that, thanks.

Absolutely, anyone who thinks otherwise is on cloud cuckoo land.

Coburger

How well do you think Jackson will stand up to the physicality of the opposition. Do you think he'll be targeted and rattled? On a side note, does anyone think Ireland will play against a full 15 for the full 80 mins. Do the Samoans have a tendency to lose players to discipline and dodgy tackles?

Larbre34

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Suppose there'll be no one from Connacht supporting Ireland Saturday so?:rolleyes:

With all the Connacht connections to that Samoa team, maybe thats where the support will go!;)

wittycynic

desertcircus wrote: »

In 1949, ten of the Italian football team's players were from Torino FC. The entire Torinese team died in a plane crash that year, though, and the club has never really recovered.

There is an element of tribalism in a lot of sports, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it so ingrained and mainstream as it is in Irish rugby. That said, I suspect it's primarily the result of Kidney picking from a team shaped in his own image for some time (which looked uncomfortably like a Munster bias), and has followed on with a degree of backlash with Schmidt. I suspect and hope that after a year or two under Joe, the hubbub will die down and people will be less obsessed with the precise numbers of players in each squad.

Tribalism on Irish rugby existed long before kidney. The Cork Exmainer, as it was many moons ago, used to give out stink about the Irish team being dominated by Ulster and Leinster players and reckoned those provinces got all the marginal calls. Maybe that was accurate, but either way, provinces have felt hard done by in selections for a long long time and have frequently cried provincial bias on selections.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

wittycynic wrote: »

Tribalism on Irish rugby existed long before kidney. The Cork Exmainer, as it was then, used to give out stink about the Irish team being dominated by Ulster and Leinster players and reckoned those provinces got all the marginal calls. Maybe that was accurate, but either way, provinces have felt hard done by in selections for a long long time and have frequently cried provincial bias on selections.

True, rightwing suggesting that some selections are made to satisfy certain sections of fans is absolute nonsense though

Buer

Rightwing wrote: »

Think of the Lions, I need say no more.

Indeed. The number of Scottish test starters in the past two tours has surely been solely to placate the thousands of supporters from there that have made the journeys to South Africa and Australia.

Grimebox

Larbre34 wrote: »

Can me talking about current discussion in the media about a point some fans like to debate be put in the charter? How about no.

reported.

I misunderstood what you said, as Riskymove pointed out above. I wasn't haveing a go at you either. I was agreeing with the sentiment.

My point was that I am sick to death of people going on about a coaches' apparent bias or outside influence affecting their selection decisions. It's all tin-foil stuff imo

.ak

Grimebox wrote: »

Can this be added to the charter so everyone can shut the fcuk up about it? It was bad enough when Kidney was coach, Schmidt has named his first team and its already begun. Claiming a coach has a provincal bias literally serves no purpose

Larbre34 wrote: »

Can me talking about current discussion in the media about a point some fans like to debate be put in the charter? How about no.

reported.

Not really sure what's going on here. Are you guys agreeing or what?

Either way - knock it off.

Valentine1

gotta ticket in the end, should be interesting, expecting Ireland to win but not my a massive margin and mostly thanks to the home advantage.

Am most interested to see if Samoa really play as a team or as has always been the case previously more like a Baa Baas side thrown together.

Rightwing

Buer wrote: »

Indeed. The number of Scottish test starters in the past two tours has surely been solely to placate the thousands of supporters from there that have made the journeys to South Africa and Australia.

I seem to remember many on here claiming Gatty was picking too many Welsh players. The hysteria was almost embarrassing, but it perfectly illustrates the representation cry.