Ireland V Samoa team announcement and build up thread.

CatFromHue

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

The very fact that someone would say Piri Weepu is better than Conor Murray shows the lengths people will go to talk down the quality of our own players

Well he's better at the Haka anyway :pac:

awec

RuggieBear wrote: »

Samoa match...?

*cough*

Fireball07

Is someone doing a match thread?

If not, can we get the teams put in the first post, please? Would be very handy.

petebricquette

I'm hoping for an exciting bit of free-flowing rugby out of this one. I'm fairly confident we'll beat them but, like most people, I'm looking for a good performance. Solid basics, clean ball from the pack and PJ to have a stormer. Then Madigan to score a Madigan try at about 65/70 minutes.

[Jackass]

19543261 wrote: »

Will we always assume Dave is a second rate player just because Rob is his brother?

Dave Kearney is a really good player, his start to this season I think I said on here I often forget just how good he is. However, he hasn't been a first choice at Leinster in his career so far, although he is now in the frame, but with all players fit and available, it's tough to see him making the starting Leinster 15, possibly not even on the bench if a back three consists of Luke, Rob and Zane with McFadden on the bench and D'Arcy and BOD in the centre, so until he can force his way into the Leinster team and if he can force his way into the Irish team, not until then can we consider him in the same light as his brother who has a half century of caps for his country and two lions tours under his belt with 3 test starts.

Dave Kearney is a very good player, but holding every teams players to the same standard, he can't be considered a top class player or even an international quality player at this point, until he is tested at those levels and shines.

edit: sorry, that discussion was a few pages back - must learn to refresh when I come back to my computer!

molloyjh

Fireball07 wrote: »

Is someone doing a match thread?

If not, can we get the teams put in the first post, please? Would be very handy.

I might try and get one up later this evening if nobody else wants to do one? I've little to no knowledge of a lot of the Samoan players so it'll be very much focused on the squad and the new coaching set-up...

justsomebloke

molloyjh wrote: »

I might try and get one up later this evening if nobody else wants to do one? I've little to no knowledge of a lot of the Samoan players so it'll be very much focused on the squad and the new coaching set-up...

please do, I wasn't expecting this thread to be the main thread so hadn't bothered with the first post.

I thought with it being the first match of a new beginning there would of been a few people looking to do a proper match thread

Fireball07

Foxtrol wrote: »

Samoa side:

Samoa (v Ireland): F Autagavaia; A Leiua, G Pisi, J Leota, B Vaalu; T Pisi, K Fotuali’i (capt); S Taulafo, W Ole Avei, L Mulipola; F Lemalu, T Paulo; O Treviranus, J Lam, T Tuifua. Replacements: T Paulo, V Afatia, J Johnston, I Tekori, A Faosiliva, J Sua, I Tuifua, F Otto.

Lot's of 'injuries' apparently.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/samoans-understrength-for-ireland-test-1.1587381

I can't see why they'd want to put out a weakened side, this is their one big game, I'm sure they'll really want to win it.


No Paul Williams, Lemi or Sinoti Sinoti in the back 3...or Alesana Tuilagi. Don't really know anything about their back 3 at all, but the centre partnership is strong, and the half-back pairing could be dangerous.

Obviously Census Johnston is a big loss, he's a very good player, but their front row in general have played at a pretty high level.

Tekori on the bench, although missing both Fa'asvalu and Leo is another big blow, the two most obviously class operators in their back row.



I definitely think we can win against a weakened side.

Jaggo

These comparisons aren't great, a rugby team is far, far more then the sum of its parts. A team with no world class players could still beat anyone on their day.

Its Joe's job to build that team now and there is no-one who I would rather see do it.

COME ON IRELAND!

[Jackass]

astonaidan wrote: »

Entirely basing it on the two pictures, but Fergus has a better kicking stance than Jackson

Ferg has a very blunt kicking style, he really gets over the ball and drills it, usually keeps it low and fast. Good kicking style in windy conditions and his stats are good, but the further the range the most erratic those kicks can be.

Sextons kicking is more like a golf ball off the tee - very high, direct and powerful, great range. Madigan is somewhere in between the two, but very good technique.

You can see from the picture Jackson leaning back a lot, technically not the position you'd expect a player to be at that point in his run up, but I can't claim to be an internationaly capped 10, so wont try and say that it would be poor technique. Not sure if Jacksons up and down performance off the tee is technical or mental.

Richie is a proven top class kicking coach (just look at Sexton, Madigan, McFadden kicking stats coming through Leinster), so if anyone is going to fine tune Jackson, he can.

[Jackass]

Fireball07 wrote: »

I can't see why they'd want to put out a weakened side, this is their one big game, I'm sure they'll really want to win it.


No Paul Williams, Lemi or Sinoti Sinoti in the back 3...or Alesana Tuilagi. Don't really know anything about their back 3 at all, but the centre partnership is strong, and the half-back pairing could be dangerous.

Obviously Census Johnston is a big loss, he's a very good player, but their front row in general have played at a pretty high level.

Tekori on the bench, although missing both Fa'asvalu and Leo is another big blow, the two most obviously class operators in their back row.



I definitely think we can win against a weakened side.

It's not a bad Samoa Starting 15 all the same.

15. Fa’atoina Autagavaia - Vailoa (Samoa)
14. Alapati Leiua - Hurricanes
13. George Pisi - Northampton
12. Johnny Leota - Sale
11. Brando Va’aulu - Tokyo Gas (Japan)
10. Tusi Pisi - Suntory Sungoliath (Japan)
9. Kahn Fotuali’i (CAPT) - Northampton

1. Sakaria Taulafo - Stade Francais
2. Ole Avei - Bordeaux
3. Logovi’i Mulipola - Leicester Tigers
4. Fa’atiga Lemalu - Stade Montois - (French Pro D2)
5. Filo Paulo - Cardiff Blues
6. Ofisa Treviranus - London Irish
7. Jack Lam - Hurricanes
8. Taiasina Tuifu’a - Bordeaux

Pretty decent standard, 11 of the 15 playing top flight rugby around the world.

Aviva Premiership: 5
Top 14: 3
Super Rugby: 2
Japan: 2
Pro12: 1
ProD2: 1
Samoa: 1

Berticus

Anyone who followed AIL rugby back in the early 00's would remember Richie Murphy for Tarf. He pretty much singlehandedly kept Tarf up in the 1st division and contributed to the success after that. The guy would regularly slot kicks over from close to his own '10. He had this style that was different to a lot of kickers at the time - kept the ball low, straight, and had quite a short run up. I remember a lot of players around then would try to use the natural curl from right to left and have these windy run ups. My guess is that the latter technique would break down more frequently.

I really noticed the likes of sexton Ferg, and Madigan move towards his style from his coaching. The guy must be one if the best kicking coaches around.

.ak

Here's hoping nobody needs to use this meme tomorrow.

CatFromHue

I thought I knew the name Richie Murphy from somewhere but couldn't remember where!

.ak

Berticus wrote: »

Anyone who followed AIL rugby back in the early 00's would remember Richie Murphy for Tarf. He pretty much singlehandedly kept Tarf up in the 1st division and contributed to the success after that. The guy would regularly slot kicks over from close to his own '10. He had this style that was different to a lot of kickers at the time - kept the ball low, straight, and had quite a short run up. I remember a lot of players around then would try to use the natural curl from right to left and have these windy run ups. My guess is that the latter technique would break down more frequently.

I really noticed the likes of sexton Ferg, and Madigan move towards his style from his coaching. The guy must be one if the best kicking coaches around.

Especially for Ferg. He kicks it like it insulted his mother.

.ak

petebricquette wrote: »

Good lord.

Paul O'Connell, doesn't skip dips.

schools rugby

Just on the debate regarding Murray as to where he ranks in the world. I would say that Genia, Smith, Du Preez, and Fotuali' are all ahead of him. But I dont think Kockett or Parra are any better than him, they tend to be overrated because they can kick.

Tommy Bowe would make any international team bar the All Blacks

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

Paul O'Connell, doesn't skip dips.

It's like his triceps have triceps

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

????

What wingers?

Savea and Smith maybe but who else?

Corey Jane is starting for the AB's this weekend. Bowe is a better winger and I thnk our resident Kiwi will agree (enter Swiwi)

Yes, I rate Bowe highly. My only critique would be that occasionally his hands let him down, and occasionally he over-runs the play. I do actually think he would have had an excellent chance to represent NZ if that was possible.

NZ always produces good wings, only occasionally a dud (eg Caleb Ralph), but the current selection of Savea, Jane, Smith and Piutau are all very good IMO.

Fireball07

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yes, I rate Bowe highly. My only critique would be that occasionally his hands let him down, and occasionally he over-runs the play. I do actually think he would have had an excellent chance to represent NZ if that was possible.

NZ always produces good wings, only occasionally a dud (eg Caleb Ralph), but the current selection of Savea, Jane, Smith and Piutau are all very good IMO.

How would you compare them versus Sivivatu, Rokococko, Howlett and Gear?

bilston

Valentine1 wrote: »

For me World Class is a player who would be selected in a World XV vs World XV game. Essentially a player who could be considered to be in the top 4 in the world. Its a bot of a moveable feast of course and isn't to be taken too seriously. For me Heaslip and BOD are the only two starters who could even arguably be World Class with POC and SOB on the bench

As for Best, Murray, Bowe and Kearney? fine players all but i don't think any of them are top 10 in the world in their position at the moment.

In fairness I wasn't entirely aware of all the names missing from the Samoa team, we might expect to do better than I originally thought.

Tommy Bowe is easily in the top 10 wingers in world rugby...easily...only North is ahead of him in Europe and there arent 9 better wingers in the SH.

Edit - havent read the thread from valentine's point on so this might have been covered already!

Swiwi.

geekington wrote: »

When talking about D'Arcy, I remember something that Will Greenwood mentioned before one Leinsters Heineken cup games last year. He said that D'Arcy has "spent a career making others look good at the expensive of himself". I think this really sums him up. He is a fantastic player but knows his limits and has a fantastic ability to bring others in to the game with his passing game - which I think is right up there as one of the most technically brilliant from all Irish players. If you spend a bit of time watching him you rarely see him through a pass that isn't positioned so that the player is running on it to and not having a check their run. It really is a joy to behold.

Secondly, out of interest - In Aus, NZ etc.. - have supporters ever complained like some sections of our country do about the relative lack of players from their own locality - I'm thinking Canterbury (or South Island) players being picked ahead of other North Island players. I assume there isn't the bickering we have here?

.ak wrote: »

Not by Swiwi anyway!

I think the 'tribalism' effect is fairly rife here in Ireland. But I don't think it's a bad thing. Competition breeds success. Although the model in NZ obviously works.

The tribalism here does my head in to be honest.

It exists of course to a degree in NZ: when Auckland dominated the ABs in the late 80s early 90s, there were a few mutterings from Canterbury, but it would have been hard to deny that Fitzpatrick, Brooke, Jones etc didn't merit their places! And when Deans/Mitchell put out 14 Crusaders + Lomu in one game against Australia the rest of the country wasn't too keen on that.

But in general, NZ always gets behind whoever is chosen (and usually the coaches and the public largely agree on the selections) and it's all about the Black jersey.

You would certainly never get someone meticulously adding up the number of players from each province as happens fairly frequently on this forum.

oneshot0kill

schools rugby wrote: »

Just on the debate regarding Murray as to where he ranks in the world. I would say that Genia, Smith, Du Preez, and Fotuali' are all ahead of him. But I dont think Kockett or Parra are any better than him, they tend to be overrated because they can kick.

Tommy Bowe would make any international team bar the All Blacks

I know it's a bit late but here's a bunch that I thought could be in the list. A few aren't in the test teams but I still reckon they are better than Murray. Kockett, Pienaar, Du Preez, Aaron Smith, Andy Ellis, Genia, Parra, Fotuali'i, Cowan, Youngs. Weepu when he's off the pies. Murray had a couple of good games for the Lions but recently for Munster I've found his service to be pretty slow. Like it takes a while for him to swing back and release the ball out wide. And that's something a half back should get right before anything else.

On the Samoa game, I thought it would've been a close one but since the injuries and based on looking at the team line ups alone, Ireland should really aim to beat them comfortably with home advantage. However! You can never discount their passion mixed with their natural explosiveness and power so I'm definitely hoping for some surprises.

P.Walnuts

I'd go out on a limb to suggest that the "tribalism" in Ireland is largely confined to the internet, boards such as this one and possibly comment sections on fb etc...

I think if you polled the everyday average ( yes in other words casual) Irish rugby fan they couldn't care less what the province make up of the national team is

Swiwi.

Fireball07 wrote: »

How would you compare them versus Sivivatu, Rokococko, Howlett and Gear?

Rococoko at his peak was sublime. He faded surprisingly quickly though and was not far off awful by the time he was dropped and headed overseas.

Howlett, as I've said before, was never flashy, but along with Jeff Wilson he had the greatest feel for the game in terms of positioning and being in the right place at the right time to saunter across for a try. Top try scorer with barely a memorable touchdown to his name says it all (cf Lomu, Cullen, Umaga etc).

Gear had his moments, but definitely not in the pantheon of great NZ wingers. Tended to have a low work-rate, which cost him.

Sivivatu was very hot & cold. At his best, when he could be bothered, he was close to unstoppable, but he got dropped pre 2011 for a fairly shoddy Super season.

For me, the greatest winger in terms of all round game was Jeff Wilson, Lomu was a freak, and then I'd probably go with Howlett, although as I said Rococoko had a couple of incredible seasons.

astonaidan

Fireball07 wrote: »

Murray is so much better than Weepu, it's not even funny.

And I'd definitely have him ahead of Youngs as of now, more consistent.


Jane is underrated by some, he reminds me of Bowe in some ways. Great finisher, hands-off, kicking game, defence, etc. top class. I think I rate him higher than Savea tbh.

Ah but Murray doesnt lead the haka, you gotta count that against him

Swiwi.

Fireball07 wrote: »

Murray is so much better than Weepu, it's not even funny.

And I'd definitely have him ahead of Youngs as of now, more consistent.


Jane is underrated by some, he reminds me of Bowe in some ways. Great finisher, hands-off, kicking game, defence, etc. top class. I think I rate him higher than Savea tbh.

Cory Jane was just excellent in 2012. Ticked all the boxes. Has had no season to date to speak of after his cruel knee injury in pre-season Super training. Tomorrow's game will be very interesting.

I'd have Murray ahead of Weepu too. The best NZ scrumhalves I've seen were Graham Bachop, Justin Marshall (pre achilles injury), and Aaron Smith is on the rise nicely.

Fireball07

Swiwi. wrote: »

Rococoko at his peak was sublime. He faded surprisingly quickly though and was not far off awful by the time he was dropped and headed overseas.

Howlett, as I've said before, was never flashy, but along with Jeff Wilson he had the greatest feel for the game in terms of positioning and being in the right place at the right time to saunter across for a try. Top try scorer with barely a memorable touchdown to his name says it all (cf Lomu, Cullen, Umaga etc).

Gear had his moments, but definitely not in the pantheon of great NZ wingers. Tended to have a low work-rate, which cost him.

Sivivatu was very hot & cold. At his best, when he could be bothered, he was close to unstoppable, but he got dropped pre 2011 for a fairly shoddy Super season.

For me, the greatest winger in terms of all round game was Jeff Wilson, Lomu was a freak, and then I'd probably go with Howlett, although as I said Rococoko had a couple of incredible seasons.

I was more wondering about comparing that crop of wingers to the current group.

awec

We are straying again...

duckysauce

CatFromHue wrote: »

Cory Jane has probably the best hand off in World Rugby. It's amazing the amount of power he gets in it.

Best one I have seen lately unreal.