Ireland V Samoa team announcement and build up thread.

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

He has only played 3 tests for Ireland. He also has a lot more gametime and is playing better than Madigan this season

Its my opinion that Madigan is a better 10 , hopefully I'm proved wrong

and its not based on place kicking , mcfadden can cover here if needed.

.ak

Tox56 wrote: »

One small thing I've noticed flicking through the training pictures this week is that the whole squad seems to be switching around, there is no set "first team" that trains against the reserves, there's nobody on the outside looking in. Maybe it's temporary while everyone gets comfortable with each other but it's a very interesting approach (presuming I'm not imagining this). It also possibly explains why none of the journalists were able to pick the team correctly

Under Kidney you simply saw the team based on who was wearing bibs and who wasn't (I'm not saying this is a terrible thing in itself), but here even on Thursday before the game I wouldn't be able to call the team looking at these pics: http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1311315/

As said above it's hard to see many players in the squad starting all 3 games

Schmidt has always been a keen fan of making sure the next level of depth is as good as the first - obviously some people are more skilled than others but putting the '2nds' in as reps on training drills doesn't help anything. Schmidt would also be keenly aware of how our last 6n campaign went to the dogs once a few of the front line players became injured. It's massively important the likes of McGrath, Fitzpatrick, Jackson/Madigan, Henry, Toner, McFadden are all getting quality training and game time to make sure they're every bit as threatening as the guys they're replacing.

awec

thebaz wrote: »

Its my opinion that Madigan is a better 10 , hopefully I'm proved wrong

and its not based on place kicking , mcfadden can cover here if needed.

IMO Madigan's best position for Ireland is 22.

I believe barring injury, or some sort of disastrous performance it will be 10. Sexton and 22. Madigan against Australia and NZ.

I think Madigan is a different kind of 10 to Sexton and Jackson, the former two being more similar in style. That difference makes him a good bench option to change it up for the last 20 or whatever.

molloyjh

thebaz wrote: »

Its my opinion that Madigan is a better 10 , hopefully I'm proved wrong

I think they've different skill sets. Jackson brings in those around him very well and far better than Madigan does. But Madigan is a greater threat individually with ball in hand, plus his place kicking is excellent. Used effectively both are very good, but right now Jackson deserves the spot ahead of Madigan.

.ak

thebaz wrote: »

Its my opinion that Madigan is a better 10 , hopefully I'm proved wrong

No, that opinion is actually probably shared by a lot of people. I think Madigan is the better 10 potentially. But that's the caveat - potentially. Right now Jackson is singing along nicely.

It's just like the Scotland game last year. I got lambasted for suggesting Jackson was the correct call - my reasoning wasn't that Madigan was not a better 10, but that Jackson was playing better and suited the team more so than Madigan who was relying on his ability to break and cut out pass - Jackson has the ability to to bring those around him into the game a bit better. In the first 20 minutes of the Scotland game he roasted their midfield for fun.

Jackson is the correct call for this game. Although I reckon the Somoans will be more than happy to send a few loose forwards down his channel and see how he copes.

thebaz

awec wrote: »

IMO Madigan's best position for Ireland is 22.

not sure Madigan or any player would like ther best position to be 22 - I for sure wouldnt (when I playerd :eek:

The Pheasant2

Will SOB come on at 6 or 7?

.ak

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Will SOB come on at 6 or 7?

Or 8? :P

I'd imagine he'll come on at 7. It his best position and bar POM having a nightmare I think Henry is the most likely to be replaced.

launish116

.ak wrote: »

Jackson is the correct call for this game. Although I reckon the Somoans will be more than happy to send a few loose forwards down his channel and see how he copes .

Even so jacksons defence has been good! no fear to try and tackle regardless of size

.ak

launish116 wrote: »

Even so jacksons defence has been good! no fear to try and tackle regardless of size

Yeah, tackling really is mostly down to your mind set. But all the same, some of those lads are absolute monsters and won't require much technique to get past him. The key will be how he positions himself, his decision making, and how the backrow work in terms of protection around the fringes and offering go forward ball.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Jackson will be well used to big guys running at his channell, he looks like a bad defender but looks a deceiving

I was in Thomond park for his first Irish appearance and one thing that struck me has his physicality for such a relativity small guy. He took plenty of late hits in that game too

CatFromHue

Both Madigan and Jackson are able to hold their own physically even though they're relatively small.

Larbre34

So, UGSE, what do you make of the 12 selection now?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Larbre34 wrote: »

So, UGSE, what do you make of the 12 selection now?

I think it's a call that makes a lot more sense with Sexton injured. If Sexton was starting I would question the need for Darcy but I can definitely see the benefits to Darcy playing alongside Jackson as a means of getting him as comfortable as possible with Schmidts way of doing things

Neil3030

I'm still pinching myself that Ireland are going into a game under Joe Schmidt, this weekend.

Larbre34

Its slightly disgusting that the armchair warriors on social media had the finger poised to be outraged at Heaslip as captain, without even waiting to understand the point that POC is to be squad captain

For their sake, and for his own, I hope Jamie has an absolute stormer, a-la the recent Ospreys game. Without SOB around, I hope he marauds about the place causing havoc.

phog

Happy enough with the team and of course what an impact the bench will be be, imagine seeing Cronin, Healy, POC and SOB warming up on the sideline.

BTW, who of the panel was not considered due to injury?

Larbre34

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think it's a call that makes a lot more sense with Sexton injured. If Sexton was starting I would question the need for Darcy but I can definitely see the benefits to Darcy playing alongside Jackson as a means of getting him as comfortable as possible with Schmidts way of doing things

Cant argue with that!

shoutman

A lot of Jackson vs Madigan debate, Keatley an afterthought despite being on the bench?

Synode

shoutman wrote: »

A lot of Jackson vs Madigan debate, Keatley an afterthought despite being on the bench?

?? Keatley's not on the bench

artvandelay48

shoutman wrote: »

A lot of Jackson vs Madigan debate, Keatley an afterthought despite being on the bench?

what bench is this?

LostArt

Think he read Kearney as Keatley

Kayless

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I think it's a call that makes a lot more sense with Sexton injured. If Sexton was starting I would question the need for Darcy but I can definitely see the benefits to Darcy playing alongside Jackson as a means of getting him as comfortable as possible with Schmidts way of doing things

I agree especially with BOD playing 13

I also think it's fair to give the fringe players like Henry a chance to stake a clam and this bodes well for the team in the long run because a backrow of say SOB,Henry, Heaslip might actually turn out to be more balanced even though SOB is our best 7 so yeah I'm happy enough with the squad

Mahatma Geansai

In summary: a lot of concerns, but no major gripes.

I'm delighted to see McGrath involved. Schmidt knows him well from the last few seasons which has allowed him to jump the queue to be Healy's backup. Including Court in the wider squad is a poor decision considering he hasn't even made the squad. Squad involvement would have been much more beneficial to players like Killer/Cronin who will actually contribute to the future of Irish rugby.

Hopefully Best holds himself together and there are no meltdowns from touch once he is in either 22. Cronin has had some impressive moments this year, but his basics are nowhere near the level required. Mike Ross hasn't inspired much confidence this season, but he is still the man in possession. Its nice to see Fitzpatrick involved, but I'm not sure its a great idea to dedicate gametime to him. He is definitely better than Archer or Moore at present, but it might be smart to blood those lads as he's is perpetually broken.

I'm no fan of Toner, but he is needed to run the lineout with POC not starting. McCarthy is lucky to edge out Tuohy, but he is capable of a higher level. Lets hope he finds the form of last year and he is given no opportunity to drop the ball the ball. I'd be happy if he went 80 without touching the ball if he just puts in a huge performance in the tight. If SOB isn't fit to start, its the right selection in the backrow. Hopefully Jamie puts in a captains performance to silence any doubts lingering from last season.

The right half-back pairing was selected, but Murray as the senior man needs to put in a commanding performance. I haven't seen the Samoan side, but I imagine he'll need to be in top form to both help Paddy along and outplay Kahn (fantastic player). I'm not happy with D'Arcy's inclusion at all. He is experienced, but he offers nothing looking to the future and isn't better than Marshall imo. You'd imagine that Jackson would be more comfortable with Marshall outside him too.

Joe hinted that McFadden was included for his versatility, but I imagine his goal kicking was a large part of it too. Trimble offers more as the limited, but hardworking winger in my book. Kearney is capable of being brilliant, but we haven't seen enough of that recently. Hopefully he isn't put in a position as the last man needing to make a try-saving tackle as it is advantage Samoa in that situation. Bowe is the danger-man in a backline I'd otherwise call industrious. Regardless, I still hope to see some signs of Joe's famed attacking play; we'll probably see Murray on the "Sexton loop" a lot of times during the game.

On the bench is where we have a real advantage. The impact that Healy/SOB/POC can offer is downright formidable. We will be able to release three of the best forwards in the world against tiring legs; well done Joe. I wouldn't have Reddan involved, but he does offer something different if Murray is looking out on his feet coming towards the end of the game. Madigan is included because the likes of Keatley haven't been consistent enough to put their hands up for selection. He is undoubtedly a quality footballer, but its his heroics from last year that see him at 22. I think that Kearney's flexibility along with his familiarity with Schmidt see him get the nod at 23; hopefully he'll get his first cap at the weekend.

Quint2010

Telling thats Schmidt has commented that the starting 15 are picked because they have spent the most amount of time together training. Makes me hopeful that we will see Schmidt fingerprints on this team from the start. Good impact from the bench and keeping big players fresh for Australia and NZ.

jacothelad

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

At some stage in the campaign we have to try and work in some of our strength in depth. Henry, McGrath and Toner are all going to be part of the six nations set up and all are quality players who have earned their start. Given the lack of training and the need to preserve these guys, the selections make sense.

I'm a bit surprised by Marshall, but given the physicality of the opposition there may be a worry about him.

Marshall is bigger, stronger and faster than Darcy. Physicality isn't a problem for either of them.

thebaz wrote: »

weak selection , particularly at 10 , think we might now lose this game

ps I'm a massive Schmidt fan , but think hes got some key selections wrong , and underestimated Samoa , particularly at 10

Nonsense.

molloyjh

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

In summary: a lot of concerns, but no major gripes.

I'm delighted to see McGrath involved. Schmidt knows him well from the last few seasons which has allowed him to jump the queue to be Healy's backup. Including Court in the wider squad is a poor decision considering he hasn't even made the squad. Squad involvement would have been much more beneficial to players like Killer/Cronin who will actually contribute to the future of Irish rugby.

Hopefully Best holds himself together and there are no meltdowns from touch once he is in either 22. Cronin has had some impressive moments this year, but his basics are nowhere near the level required. Mike Ross hasn't inspired much confidence this season, but he is still the man in possession. Its nice to see Fitzpatrick involved, but I'm not sure its a great idea to dedicate gametime to him. He is definitely better than Archer or Moore at present, but it might be smart to blood those lads as he's is perpetually broken.

I'm no fan of Toner, but he is needed to run the lineout with POC not starting. McCarthy is lucky to edge out Tuohy, but he is capable of a higher level. Lets hope he finds the form of last year and he is given no opportunity to drop the ball the ball. I'd be happy if he went 80 without touching the ball if he just puts in a huge performance in the tight. If SOB isn't fit to start, its the right selection in the backrow. Hopefully Jamie puts in a captains performance to silence any doubts lingering from last season.

The right half-back pairing was selected, but Murray as the senior man needs to put in a commanding performance. I haven't seen the Samoan side, but I imagine he'll need to be in top form to both help Paddy along and outplay Kahn (fantastic player). I'm not happy with D'Arcy's inclusion at all. He is experienced, but he offers nothing looking to the future and isn't better than Marshall imo. You'd imagine that Jackson would be more comfortable with Marshall outside him too.

Joe hinted that McFadden was included for his versatility, but I imagine his goal kicking was a large part of it too. Trimble offers more as the limited, but hardworking winger in my book. Kearney is capable of being brilliant, but we haven't seen enough of that recently. Hopefully he isn't put in a position as the last man needing to make a try-saving tackle as it is advantage Samoa in that situation. Bowe is the danger-man in a backline I'd otherwise call industrious. Regardless, I still hope to see some signs of Joe's famed attacking play; we'll probably see Murray on the "Sexton loop" a lot of times during the game.

On the bench is where we have a real advantage. The impact that Healy/SOB/POC can offer is downright formidable. We will be able to release three of the best forwards in the world against tiring legs; well done Joe. I wouldn't have Reddan involved, but he does offer something different if Murray is looking out on his feet coming towards the end of the game. Madigan is included because the likes of Keatley haven't been consistent enough to put their hands up for selection. He is undoubtedly a quality footballer, but its his heroics from last year that see him at 22. I think that Kearney's flexibility along with his familiarity with Schmidt see him get the nod at 23; hopefully he'll get his first cap at the weekend.

The one thing I will say to this is that Toner is massively underrated by some. The guy has great hands and has been playing very well the last 12 months or so. As long as he's partnered with an abrasive, niggly player beside him he's a great asset. How often do you see POC throwing a dummy pass, breaking the gain line and putting a man in space?

I also think we'll see Ireland up the pace in the second half. Being able to bring in Healy, Cronin and SOB along with Reddan at scrum half and possibly Madigan as well just injects so much into the game. POC to focus on clearing out like a man possessed and we have the potential to do serious damage in the last 20-30 should it all come together.

ssaye2

When are Samoa naming their team?

Fireball07

Jackson is definitely the right calll at ten. Don't think Trimble was in consideration really, called up late and then wasn't even included on the bench. I know Kearney offers a full-back option too, but I still think Trimble is a better option than both others.

And I'm a little disappointed, but not surprised that DOC hasn't been picked. Don't think McCarthy has been particularly great this season tbqh. I know he's capable of better and he's a good solid player, but DOC is playing very well at the moment. As are Toner and Tuohy, but I honestly believe DOC is better than both. (May be some bias there).


Still, I think (hope) that team has the potential to win. Very strong bench- no team in the world wants to see the likes of Healy, POC and SOB coming off the bench, and with Madigan as an option too, we have some firepower. Hopefully the starting team aren't blown away...and I don't think they will be, there's enough class and experience there.

Larbre34

jacothelad wrote: »

Marshall is bigger, stronger and faster than Darcy. Physicality isn't a problem for either of them.

D'Arcy is playing at a consistently decent standard at the moment, better than at any period since his long layoff for the smashed arm. Marshall might beat him in the training markers, but D'Arcy still has him for awareness, variation, experience, savvy. I thought he would be selected for that reason and barring injury I can see him playing 200 minutes at least over the next 3 weeks......