Ireland V Samoa team announcement and build up thread.

[Jackass]

Pretty happy with that team, it's great to see form rewarded and trust being shown in players.

Massive opportunity for McGrath and a well deserved one. I hope he destroys the scrum and all that stands in his way around the park and nail down that bench spot for the big ones.

Great for Toner too, I'm in the camp that as much as I like to see some of his (amazingly improved) skill levels around the pitch, especially his hands, I just struggle to see him in the mould of an international lock, but here's a really well earned chance for him, he's been one of the shining lights for Leinster this season.

Jackson has his form rewarded over Madigan also which is the right call, exciting to see Henry in at 7 (I think I mentioned in another thread that Schmidt will be looking for an out and out 7 for his style of play, hopefully Henry will show he can provide that).

Also delighted for Dave Kearney, deserves to be capped and hope he gets a few minutes off the bench.

All in all, a typical Joe Schmidt selection, no one predicts it, but most are very happy with it.

Also, I must be one of the few remaining in the Gordon D'Arcy Fundamentalists Liberation Front who think he is still a top international class 12. I think people miss his contribution entirely if they don't rate him (similar people who don't rate Heaslip I'd imagine), but glad to see him back in at centre. His distribution is something not often mentioned here or in the media, but when you watch how he picks passes amongst runners and creates breaks with spotting the right player on the right line, he's by far the best 12 in the country imo. Yes there are some fancy dan options in Olding or Marshall or even Madigan, but none have the net positive impact on a team from 12 than D'Arcy does imo.

ssaye2

Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant Referees: Wayne Barnes, Luke Pearce (both England)
Television Match Official: Carlo Damasco (Italy)

Toners debut the last time we played

No sign of the Samoa team?

Quint2010

[Jackass] wrote: »

Also, I must be one of the few remaining in the Gordon D'Arcy Fundamentalists Liberation Front

Splitters!:D

P.Walnuts

[Jackass] wrote: »

Pretty happy with that team, it's great to see form rewarded and trust being shown in players.

Massive opportunity for McGrath and a well deserved one. I hope he destroys the scrum and all that stands in his way around the park and nail down that bench spot for the big ones.

Great for Toner too, I'm in the camp that as much as I like to see some of his (amazingly improved) skill levels around the pitch, especially his hands, I just struggle to see him in the mould of an international lock, but here's a really well earned chance for him, he's been one of the shining lights for Leinster this season.

Jackson has his form rewarded over Madigan also which is the right call, exciting to see Henry in at 7 (I think I mentioned in another thread that Schmidt will be looking for an out and out 7 for his style of play, hopefully Henry will show he can provide that).

Also delighted for Dave Kearney, deserves to be capped and hope he gets a few minutes off the bench.

All in all, a typical Joe Schmidt selection, no one predicts it, but most are very happy with it.

Also, I must be one of the few remaining in the Gordon D'Arcy Fundamentalists Liberation Front who think he is still a top international class 12. I think people miss his contribution entirely if they don't rate him (similar people who don't rate Heaslip I'd imagine), but glad to see him back in at centre. His distribution is something not often mentioned here or in the media, but when you watch how he picks passes amongst runners and creates breaks with spotting the right player on the right line, he's by far the best 12 in the country imo. Yes there are some fancy dan options in Olding or Marshall or even Madigan, but none have the net positive impact on a team from 12 than D'Arcy does imo.

D'arcy "by far" the best 12 in the country? :pac:

It a conservative selection, Marshall is playing at least aswell, if not better right now and is 11 years younger than D'arcy. I really hate this lack of foresight into the national team.

ScissorPaperRock

Swiwi. wrote: »

Great. Feel free to put the same team out against NZ. I rather suspect the 4 I mentioned will all start though. In my defence i haven't yet been able to listen to the press conference being at work.

Surely you're not arguing we should field our strongest 15 in every game. Where would rotation and development of young players fit into that?

molloyjh

P.Walnuts wrote: »

D'arcy "by far" the best 12 in the country? :pac:

It a conservative selection, Marshall is playing at least aswell, if not better right now and is 11 years younger than D'arcy. I really hate this lack of foresight into the national team.

There is logic there even if we don't agree, i.e. that a Murray-Jackson-Marshall-BOD combo hasn't played much together and most of them haven't played under Joe therefore Darce might just bring some continuity into things. If Sexton is fit for the Australia game I reckon Marshall will start at 12 and Darce will be out of the 23.

A lot of the players have spoken about a steep learning curve. The less players affected by that the better in the first outing, especially with the injuries we have. As players get accustomed to what is expected of them they'll be integrated more and more into the side.

former legend

P.Walnuts wrote: »

D'arcy "by far" the best 12 in the country? :pac:

It a conservative selection, Marshall is playing at least aswell, if not better right now and is 11 years younger than D'arcy. I really hate this lack of foresight into the national team.

Jackson, McGrath, Toner, Henry, Madigan, Fitzpatrick, Kearney all in single figures of caps. O'Driscoll the only player definitely not going to be around for the next wc. Are people ever happy?

Sending out a wolfhound side against Samoa is going to end badly and we'd learn nothing about anyone.

chippers

Great to see Henry getting a start. He's been a consistently good performer for a long time now. Absolutely deserves it.

Tox56

P.Walnuts wrote: »

D'arcy "by far" the best 12 in the country? :pac:

It a conservative selection, Marshall is playing at least aswell, if not better right now and is 11 years younger than D'arcy. I really hate this lack of foresight into the national team.

Jack Mc feckin Grath is starting a loosehead, I'm all for giving youth a chance but even I'm surprised he actually went for that, complaining about Schmidt's lack of foresight into the national team based on one marginal selection is jumping the gun a tad

ssaye2

[Jackass]

P.Walnuts wrote: »

D'arcy "by far" the best 12 in the country? :pac:

It a conservative selection, Marshall is playing at least aswell, if not better right now and is 11 years younger than D'arcy. I really hate this lack of foresight into the national team.

It's hardly lack of foresight, sure just take a quick stroll over to the Leinster thread and look at the reaction I got when suggesting that only one of Boss / Reddan should be retained in each match day squad with one of Cooney / McGrath being the other involved in each match day squad in order to develop the youth / future at scrum half instead of having two lads in their mid-30's in the 23, have a young / old combo. Nobody pushes player development more than me, I just don't think the international team is the place to do it.

Furthermore, we want to win these games too, get the series and reign off to a good start. By my count, at least 17 of the 23 will be viable options for the next world cup, with most of the rest being possiblely still available, so it's not like we're starting John Hayes at the age of 47 three months after a world cup in a meaningless test game against Namibia...there's a blend of youth and experience to be achieved.

P.Walnuts

former legend wrote: »

Jackson, McGrath, Toner, Henry, Madigan, Fitzpatrick, Kearney all in single figures of caps. O'Driscoll the only player definitely not going to be around for the next wc. Are people ever happy?

Sending out a wolfhound side against Samoa is going to end badly and we'd learn nothing about anyone.

3 of the players you named are starting on the bench.

Marshall was our starting 12 for most of the last 6N, so dunno how him starting would contribute to a wolfhounds squad.

Prop and locks can switch fairly frequently without disruption to play, but a 12 hugely important to how the back line performs, why can't we give the guy the jersey and get him settled in the team? Instead for he second year running we will be going in the 6N with questions marks over one of the most important positions*

*This can all be discounted if Marshall starts against Oz

Tox56

Swiwi. wrote: »

Great. Feel free to put the same team out against NZ. I rather suspect the 4 I mentioned will all start though. In my defence i haven't yet been able to listen to the press conference being at work.

I'd be amazed if any of those 4 aren't fit in time for the NZ game, but there's nothing in this lack of respect thing, treating Samoa the same way as NZ would be insane. If a top player is 50/50 and there is an able replacement they probably won't take the risk against Samoa but they probably would against NZ, that's just the way it is

P.Walnuts

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's hardly lack of foresight, sure just take a quick stroll over to the Leinster thread and look at the reaction I got when suggesting that only one of Boss / Reddan should be retained in each match day squad with one of Cooney / McGrath being the other involved in each match day squad in order to develop the youth / future at scrum half instead of having two lads in their mid-30's in the 23, have a young / old combo. Nobody pushes player development more than me, I just don't think the international team is the place to do it.

Furthermore, we want to win these games too, get the series and reign off to a good start. By my count, at least 17 of the 23 will be viable options for the next world cup, with most of the rest being possiblely still available, so it's not like we're starting John Hayes at the age of 47 three months after a world cup in a meaningless test game against Namibia...there's a blend of youth and experience to be achieved.

Points taken, but 12 is such an important position we really would benefit from having some consistency there, Marshall is by far and away the best long term prospect we have there so why not give him as much time as possible?

Tox56

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Points taken, but 12 is such an important position we really would benefit from having some consistency there, Marshall is by far and away the best long term prospect we have there so why not give him as much time as possible?

Olding is a cracking prospect who has played most his senior rugby at 12

P.Walnuts

Tox56 wrote: »

Olding is a cracking prospect who has played most his senior rugby at 12

Behind Marshall in he pecking order at Ulster though, I've heard just as many people saying his future is at 13.

former legend

P.Walnuts wrote: »

3 of the players you named are starting on the bench.

Marshall was our starting 12 for most of the last 6N, so dunno how him starting would contribute to a wolfhounds squad.

Prop and locks can switch fairly frequently without disruption to play, but a 12 hugely important to how the back line performs, why can't we give the guy the jersey and get him settled in the team? Instead for he second year running we will be going in the 6N with questions marks over one of the most important positions*

*This can all be discounted if Marshall starts against Oz

See, your post assumes it's a done deal that D'Arcy is finished. I don't assume that at all.

The Wolfhounds reference was to indicate that you can't throw together a load of inexperienced players and expect to get a meaningful performance out of them (which is why Wolfhounds games are terrible to watch)

Tox56

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Behind Marshall in he pecking order at Ulster though, I've heard just as many people saying his future is at 13.

Yes, I would like to see him there but there are a load of variables there, I can't believe anyone knows what's going to happen in ulster with the centre situation (Cave, Olding, Farrell, Payne, Marshall is a sickening amount of talent but they can't all be satisfied).

Just thinking though there's a pretty slick backline of players not even in the extended training squad that probably will be involved for 2015:

Marmion
Hanrahan
Gilroy
McSharry
Olding
Fitzgerald
Zebo

We have slowly built strength in depth in a lot of positions and it can really only grow in the next couple of years with the younger players coming through, it's very encouraging.

P.Walnuts

Tox56 wrote: »

Marmion
Hanrahan
Gilroy
McSharry
Olding
Fitzgerald
Zebo

We have slowly built strength in depth in a lot of positions and it can really only grow in the next couple of years with the younger players coming through, it's very encouraging.

Just need to start playing them now

Swiwi.

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

Surely you're not arguing we should field our strongest 15 in every game. Where would rotation and development of young players fit into that?

Tox56 wrote: »

I'd be amazed if any of those 4 aren't fit in time for the NZ game, but there's nothing in this lack of respect thing, treating Samoa the same way as NZ would be insane. If a top player is 50/50 and there is an able replacement they probably won't take the risk against Samoa but they probably would against NZ, that's just the way it is

Yeah, I retract my statement somewhat. I just quickly glanced at the team at work, saw 4 of Ireland's biggest stars not in the starting XV, and fired off an off-the-cuff post. I guess I'm a bit annoyed the IRB have only given Samoa the one decent game v Ireland, and then shafted them with French Barbarians (whatever that is) and Georgia. They're ranked in the top 8 teams in world rugby. There'd be an outcry if Scotland for example were handed the same draw.

I think a bit of rotation is of course good - I do think though Samoa could be very up for this game on multiple levels, especially with the added motivation of winning in memory of Peter Fatialofa.

In some ways I wish Schmidt was starting his tenure against a team I could never support, rather than Samoa. NZers tend to have a bit of a soft spot for the Pacific teams, and I'd probably be most happy with an honourable draw for both sides :pac: In any case, I hope which ever side loses does not get thrashed.

Foxtrol

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Points taken, but 12 is such an important position we really would benefit from having some consistency there, Marshall is by far and away the best long term prospect we have there so why not give him as much time as possible?

We saw how long it took the Leinster side to get up to speed with Joe’s game plan when he took over there and you want 9 – 10 – 12 to be made up of guys who have been in camp with Joe for two weeks, while also having the 10 and 12 being very inexperienced at international level and the 9 that could hardly be described as a veteran. It's asking for trouble.

I might feel differently about the Darcy selection if Marshall was playing at several levels above Darcy but that isn’t the case at the minute.

Swiwi.

Just watching the press conference now. What is the craic with Schmidt naming the team?! I've never seen that before. In NZ at least, it's always the Chairman of the NZRFU who does the honours. Quite fun actually to watch.

Foxtrol

Samoa side:

Samoa (v Ireland): F Autagavaia; A Leiua, G Pisi, J Leota, B Vaalu; T Pisi, K Fotuali’i (capt); S Taulafo, W Ole Avei, L Mulipola; F Lemalu, T Paulo; O Treviranus, J Lam, T Tuifua. Replacements: T Paulo, V Afatia, J Johnston, I Tekori, A Faosiliva, J Sua, I Tuifua, F Otto.

Lot's of 'injuries' apparently.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/samoans-understrength-for-ireland-test-1.1587381

Foxtrol

Swiwi. wrote: »

Just watching the press conference now. What is the craic with Schmidt naming the team?! I've never seen that before. In NZ at least, it's always the Chairman of the NZRFU who does the honours. Quite fun actually to watch.

As far as I can remember Kidney used to always do it back in the dark days.

IS_a_Class

Dave Kearney and Devin Toner? A bit of Leinster favoritism there from Schimdt, imo. Decent club players, but not international class or ones to develop for the future sorry to say.

Teferi

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Dave Kearney and Devin Toner? A bit of Leinster favoritism there from Schimdt, imo. Decent club players, but not international class or ones to develop for the future sorry to say.

Toner is pretty much the in-form lock in Ireland.

Kearney is an unknown. Well able to put in good performances, we shall see if he can make the step up to international level.

thebaz

Swiwi. wrote: »

I guess I'm a bit annoyed the IRB have only given Samoa the one decent game v Ireland, and then shafted them with French Barbarians (whatever that is) and Georgia. They're ranked in the top 8 teams in world rugby. There'd be an outcry if Scotland for example were handed the same draw.

I think a bit of rotation is of course good - I do think though Samoa could be very up for this game on multiple levels, especially with the added motivation of winning in memory of Peter Fatialofa.

so sad to hear about Peter Fatialofa , great character , tower of strength , think he moved pianos in his spare time.

I'm with Siwi on the islanders being treated shabbily by the IRB, since they bring so much to the game. though, I don't think the Irish team will be disrepectful to the Samoans - if they are, it could be a tough day.

Mahatma Geansai

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Dave Kearney and Devin Toner? A bit of Leinster favoritism there from Schimdt, imo. Decent club players, but not international class or ones to develop for the future sorry to say.

I think Schmidt has gone for players he is familiar with for any/all close decisions. I'm not delighted with it (Kidney was lambasted for it) but hopefully it won't be an issue come the 6N when he has had more time with the squad.

It should allow the team to get off to a flying start too, as by and large the non-Leinster players in the squad are genuine top class talent who should adapt to the new coach quickly.

Foxtrol

thebaz wrote: »

so sad to hear about Peter Fatialofa , great character , tower of strength , think he moved pianos in his spare time.

I'm with Siwi on the islanders being treated shabbily by the IRB, since they bring so much to the game. though, I don't think the Irish team will be disrepectful to the Samoans - if they are, it could be a tough day.

To be fair the Islanders themselves have treated the AI series very shabbily over the years with so many of their players making excuses to stay with their clubs. Things look to be changing which is great but I still cant help but take their injury list with a pinch of salt.

thebaz

Foxtrol wrote: »

To be fair the Islanders themselves have treated the AI series very shabbily over the years with so many of their players making excuses to stay with their clubs. Things look to be changing which is great but I still cant help but take their injury list with a pinch of salt.

I'd be very surprised if the pressure isn't coming from the clubs themselves , rather than the lower influenced Samoan union.