Ireland V Samoa team announcement and build up thread.

Foxtrol

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I think Schmidt has gone for players he is familiar with for any/all close decisions. I'm not delighted with it (Kidney was lambasted for it) but hopefully it won't be an issue come the 6N when he has had more time with the squad.

Care to find some posts or pundits from Kidney’s first AI’s where he was ‘lambasted’ for sticking with guys he knows? If Scmidt is doing that one, two, three years down the line then he fully deserves a lambasting but for now he’s making the right calls.

It should allow the team to get off to a flying start too, as by and large the non-Leinster players in the squad are genuine top class talent who should adapt to the new coach quickly.

Are you arguing against yourself now? Isn’t the point to get off to a flying start? If it’s to try as many combinations as possible then we might as well send of the Wolfhounds.

rrpc

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

I think Schmidt has gone for players he is familiar with for any/all close decisions. I'm not delighted with it (Kidney was lambasted for it) but hopefully it won't be an issue come the 6N when he has had more time with the squad.

It should allow the team to get off to a flying start too, as by and large the non-Leinster players in the squad are genuine top class talent who should adapt to the new coach quickly.

It seems we're going to get a 'Joe show' from the start. As time goes on I'd expect a good few more players slotting in as they get more comfortable with the style.

All the hallmarks are there: Pairing inexperience with experience; check, Injection of youth; check, Massive impact off the bench, check.

And not treating the press/public like idiots.

heybaby

I know Samoa are ranked above us but i think we can certainly win this match, my only concern is just how brusing it will be regarding injuries. You really want to win this one to blow the cobwebs off and oil the machine for the Australia match. Very difficult to judge with this new set up how we'll fare against the Auzzies but I'd be very much more confident than a year ago. Then the All blacks ... honestly I would take two successive 50 point defeats to Samoa and Australia in exchange for a 1 point victory over the AB's. Let the games commence. Good Luck to Joe and co.

awec

Stupid question: do Samoa play in any annual tournaments or is their international season just a series of tests?

heybaby

rrpc wrote: »

It seems we're going to get a 'Joe show' from the start. As time goes on I'd expect a good few more players slotting in as they get more comfortable with the style.

All the hallmarks are there: Pairing inexperience with experience; check, Injection of youth; check, Massive impact off the bench, check.

And not treating the press/public like idiots.

Its enormously encouraging.

Swiwi.

Foxtrol wrote: »

To be fair the Islanders themselves have treated the AI series very shabbily over the years with so many of their players making excuses to stay with their clubs. Things look to be changing which is great but I still cant help but take their injury list with a pinch of salt.

Ummm, think it might be the other way round "don't play in the AIs, or else".

Swiwi.

awec wrote: »

Stupid question: do Samoa play in any annual tournaments or is their international season just a series of tests?

There is/was that tournament with Fiji, Tonga, Japan, Canada and the States. Not sure if it's still going.

Swiwi.

Foxtrol wrote: »

As far as I can remember Kidney used to always do it back in the dark days.

It used to be ridiculously formal in NZ: Kearney, Robert, Leinster. Bowe, Thomas, Ulster. And so on...

Mahatma Geansai

Foxtrol wrote: »

Care to find some posts or pundits from Kidney’s first AI’s where he was ‘lambasted’ for sticking with guys he knows? If Scmidt is doing that one, two, three years down the line then he fully deserves a lambasting but for now he’s making the right calls.

Are you arguing against yourself now? Isn’t the point to get off to a flying start? If it’s to try as many combinations as possible then we might as well send of the Wolfhounds.

Kidney was retroactively criticised for it, although I'm sure it occurred at the time too. Of course the point is to win. Just because there may be some merit to Joe's selections, doesn't mean I'm delighted with the Leinster-centric selections. I never called for wild experimentation.

Buer

Fireball07 wrote: »

I do agree with your whole point, but in a 2nd row, you can't have someone who is a soft touch or who lacks aggression. POC mightn't have the best hands but he's still miles ahead of others on form.

All-round players are nice to have, but if there's one place where I'd value just a pure monster in aggression terms, it's a 2nd row.

Absolutely; aggression and physicality is essential in a lock. I take for granted that a lock is going to be a fairly niggly and aggressive player. They traditionally always have been and will continue to be. They won't be POC because he's a once in a generation player but there's nothing to stop someone like Quinn Roux being a right pain in the ass, physically dominating type of player that's required.

What we have to look more into is rounding out these guys. I think the nasty player will always come along in Irish rugby. We seem to be going though a bit of a fallow period from the likes of Cullen, POC and DOC but I'm confident these types of player will come through again naturally (Henderson being the big hope). We've always had a good record of producing tough, physical locks over the decades.

We've now fallen behind though because we developed locks but we didn't develop rugby players. The best lock in the country is someone we actively cringe when we see a pass coming his way which is an odd set of circumstances. We need fifteen guys who can play rugby or we'll always be playing with one arm tied behind our back.

Obviously, first and foremost, I want a lock who can clear rucks and dominate in the air but I really hope we continue to focus on the skill levels across the board including the front five as we seem to have been doing.

Swiwi.

awec wrote: »

McGrath showing his inexperience being interviewed.

How does it feel Jack?

Yea, it's a great honour for me and my family.

*awkward silence as the room awaits the rest of his answer*

A really pregnant pause. At term, fully dilated. Awkward for all parties.

P_1

awec wrote: »

Stupid question: do Samoa play in any annual tournaments or is their international season just a series of tests?

They used to compete in the Pacific Nations Cup with Japan, Fiji and Tonga during the Summer Test window but is seems they've left that for the Quad cup that South Africa organised last summer. Not too sure what they'll be doing next summer mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Nations_Cup

Foxtrol

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ummm, think it might be the other way round "don't play in the AIs, or else".

Oh I agree it was nearly definitely the clubs pushing it but it’s hard to feel sorry for Samoa or any of the Island nations getting a poor group of games during the AI’s when they’ve shown time and again that many of their best players do not show up for these games. If they’re players aren’t going to take it seriously (or only take it seriously sporadically) it’s hard for the IRB to stick their necks out and give them a number of big games ahead of other nations.

Swiwi.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Oh I agree it was nearly definitely the clubs pushing it but it’s hard to feel sorry for Samoa or any of the Island nations getting a poor group of games during the AI’s when they’ve shown time and again that many of their best players do not show up for these games. If they’re players aren’t going to take it seriously (or only take it seriously sporadically) it’s hard for the IRB to stick their necks out and give them a number of big games ahead of other nations.

Yeah I guess, although it's kind of chicken & egg. Would I want to give up a lucrative Top 14 or Aviva Premiership game to face Georgia in Tbilisi? On the other hand, Ireland at the Aviva or England at Twickenham...

Buer

Swiwi. wrote: »

There is/was that tournament with Fiji, Tonga, Japan, Canada and the States. Not sure if it's still going.

Pacific Nations Cup. Still going strong. Samoa declined participation this year though to play in the tournament in S.A. Canada and the USA used the Irish matches as their warm ups.

Buer

Foxtrol wrote: »

To be fair the Islanders themselves have treated the AI series very shabbily over the years with so many of their players making excuses to stay with their clubs. Things look to be changing which is great but I still cant help but take their injury list with a pinch of salt.

As others have said, it wasn't the countries. There was a concentrated effort a few years ago to rectify the situation. The Pacific unions had neither the money nor the clout to supply their full squads to autumn internationals. It was only in 2008 that the IRB introduced the international window that forced clubs to release their players. Prior to that, clubs were of the opinion that they pay the piper so call the tune. The island players adhered to that.

It's because of this that potential all time greats like the world's fastest prop, Caucau, has only 7 caps for Fiji yet well over 100 appearances for Agen in 5 years.

rrpc

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Kidney was retroactively criticised for it, although I'm sure it occurred at the time too. Of course the point is to win. Just because there may be some merit to Joe's selections, doesn't mean I'm delighted with the Leinster-centric selections. I never called for wild experimentation.

It's not really any more 'Leinster-centric' than any team that Kidney selected in his latter years as coach.

Here's his starting XV for England in the last 6N: R Kearney; C Gilroy, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross; M McCarthy, D Ryan; P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip. (8 Leinster)
Bench: D Kilcoyne, S Cronin, D Fitzpatrick, D O’Callaghan, C Henry, E Reddan, R O’Gara, K Earls.

Samoa starting XV
Rob Kearney; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Fergus McFadden; Paddy Jackson, Conor Murray; Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Peter O'Mahony; Devin Toner, Mike McCarthy, Mike Ross, Rory Best, Jack McGrath. (9 Leinster)
Bench: Sean Cronin, Cian Healy, Sean O'Brien, Eoin Reddan, Ian Madigan, Declan Fitzpatrick, Paul O'Connell, Dave Kearney

The only difference in numbers in the starting XV is that Mike McCarthy was a Connacht player last season and now plays for Leinster. The bench is a different matter, but only Kilcoyne and O'Callaghan have actually been omitted, the rest are injured or gone.

Foxtrol

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Kidney was retroactively criticised for it, although I'm sure it occurred at the time too. Of course the point is to win. Just because there may be some merit to Joe's selections, doesn't mean I'm delighted with the Leinster-centric selections. I never called for wild experimentation.

You can try to rewrite history but he was never criticised for it during his first AIs, the first murmurs against him for playing the players he knows only started a year in charge and these were on calls that were in no way 50/50 at the time (Buckley & Hayes over Ross, who ended up starting in the following 6 nations with zero international exposure, and Leamy over SOB, during SOBs European Player of the Year season).

If in a years time Joe is making 40/60 or 30/70 decisions in favour of Leinster players you have full right to complain but at the minute it just looks like you’re looking to shoehorn complaints that were made about Kidney into a complaint about Joe despite the fact the situations are totally different and you’ve even accepted there’s merit to it.

Also as for the Leinster-centricness of the side if Earls, POC and Zebo/Gilroy were fully fit I’d expect all three to have been in the squad with 2/3 Leinster players dropping out.

Swiwi.

thebaz wrote: »

so sad to hear about Peter Fatialofa , great character , tower of strength , think he moved pianos in his spare time.

Made his debut v Ireland it turns out.

thebaz

Buer wrote: »

It's because of this that potential all time greats like the world's fastest prop, Caucau, has only 7 caps for Fiji yet well over 100 appearances for Agen in 5 years.

is it any wonder Rugby fails to grow internationally , with more top nations , sad in fact

Teferi

Foxtrol wrote: »

You can try to rewrite history but he was never criticised for it during his first AIs, the first murmurs against him for playing the players he knows only started a year in charge and these were on calls that were in no way 50/50 at the time (Buckley & Hayes over Ross, who ended up starting in the following 6 nations with zero international exposure, and Leamy over SOB, during SOBs European Player of the Year season).

If in a years time Joe is making 40/60 or 30/70 decisions in favour of Leinster players you have full right to complain but at the minute it just looks like you’re looking to shoehorn complaints that were made about Kidney into a complaint about Joe despite the fact the situations are totally different and you’ve even accepted there’s merit to it.

Also as for the Leinster-centricness of the side if Earls, POC and Zebo/Gilroy were fully fit I’d expect all three to have been in the squad with 2/3 Leinster players dropping out.

Could not agree more.

Expect many more of those sorts of posts from the usual suspects if the November Internationals go tits up.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Wow, Samoa missing most of the players I actually know. You'd think we'll be winning this considering the teams

Foxtrol

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah I guess, although it's kind of chicken & egg. Would I want to give up a lucrative Top 14 or Aviva Premiership game to face Georgia in Tbilisi? On the other hand, Ireland at the Aviva or England at Twickenham...

Buer wrote: »

As others have said, it wasn't the countries. There was a concentrated effort a few years ago to rectify the situation. The Pacific unions had neither the money nor the clout to supply their full squads to autumn internationals. It was only in 2008 that the IRB introduced the international window that forced clubs to release their players. Prior to that, clubs were of the opinion that they pay the piper so call the tune. The island players adhered to that.

It's because of this that potential all time greats like the world's fastest prop, Caucau, has only 7 caps for Fiji yet well over 100 appearances for Agen in 5 years.

It might just be me being cynical in my old age but if Samoa were playing their biggest pool game in the World Cup I’d guess at lot of those on the injured list would be playing or at least in the 23. With the list of guys who are missing it seems to me that the clubs still call the tune, though not to the extent that they were before.

shuffol

OldRio wrote: »

83 posts in and it begins

FFS no need for that bull, for anybody who watched any rugby this season Marshall is the most notable omission from the side. Its only natural that the media at these things are going to be Dublin based and certainly not overly preoccupied with the omission of an Ulster player.

philthrill69

I haven't read through the 20 or so pages because I've been too busy getting reported and warnings and my posts deleted for posting the starting team in autumn international threads where it hadn't been mentioned yet, imagine the cheek of me!
So this has probably been mentioned but where are all the posters from the other Irish team for November tests thread that were so convinced that Marshall would start over Darcy?
Ya I know your probably trying to forget that thread ever happened because you were so wrong but hey Like I said Darcy will start and Darcy does have major sway in the Irish camp.
Take a break from the report button for a bit Ugo Monye your getting a small but predictable.

who_me

I think there needs to be a ban* on provincial (esp. Leinster or Munster) coaches being appointed as Irish coach. Too divisive.

(* after Schmidt, obviously. We Munster fans want our pound of flesh...)

Buer

philthrill69 wrote: »

I haven't read through the 20 or so pages

philthrill69 wrote:

where are all the posters from the other Irish team for November tests thread

It's one of life's great mysteries.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

philthrill69 wrote: »

I haven't read through the 20 or so pages because I've been too busy getting reported and warnings and my posts deleted for posting the starting team in autumn international threads where it hadn't been mentioned yet, imagine the cheek of me!
So this has probably been mentioned but where are all the posters from the other Irish team for November tests thread that were so convinced that Marshall would start over Darcy?
Ya I know your probably trying to forget that thread ever happened because you were so wrong but hey Like I said Darcy will start and Darcy does have major sway in the Irish camp.
Take a break from the report button for a bit Ugo Monye your getting a small but predictable.

Jaysus, nice to see I've a bit of a fan club.

If you bothered to actually read the last few pages you'll see I've addressed the fact that I was wrong about Darcy starting

Foxtrol

philthrill69 wrote: »

I haven't read through the 20 or so pages because I've been too busy getting reported and warnings and my posts deleted for posting the starting team in autumn international threads where it hadn't been mentioned yet, imagine the cheek of me!
So this has probably been mentioned but where are all the posters from the other Irish team for November tests thread that were so convinced that Marshall would start over Darcy?
Ya I know your probably trying to forget that thread ever happened because you were so wrong but hey Like I said Darcy will start and Darcy does have major sway in the Irish camp.
Take a break from the report button for a bit Ugo Monye your getting a small but predictable.

Not sure you meant it this way but you make it sound like he has some political power within the squad or something, if anything the opposite is the case.

Kanrith

So how do people think the absentees of the Samoan squad will affect the match?