€65m on Irish road signs

SV

kneemos wrote: »

Heard an interview with someone from the NRA on the radio about what roadsigns cost about the years ago. Couldn't believe the numbers he was claiming.Those big roundabout signs with the twin support posts cost 40,000 apparently...Mindblowing.

Jaysus for 40k I'd stand there directing people.

paulbok

A fair chunck of that €65m must have gone on the new(?) signs on the motorways, a distance marker every half kilometer. Surely a signage overkill if ever there was one.

awec

Apparently Irish on road signs is good for tourism.

Scraping the barrel or what. How many tourists flock to Ireland to see our road signs?

Load of bollocks.

Madam

Ah sure never mind - the tourists so love them:)

munchkin_utd

awec wrote: »

Apparently Irish on road signs is good for tourism.

Scraping the barrel or what. How many tourists flock to Ireland to see our road signs?

Load of bollocks.

possibly, but british tourists are supposedly shunning Ireland more and more as they no longer see it as being different enough to warrant a visit.

So "being different" can make a difference, even if on the face of it having multi lingual signs isnt a selling point in itsself.

SV

awec wrote: »

Apparently Irish on road signs is good for tourism.

Scraping the barrel or what. How many tourists flock to Ireland to see our road signs?

Load of bollocks.

It's that genuine Irish feel, yknow, the way they flock to Temple Bar to pay €7 for a pint. Ahhh we're feckin loaded.

ScumLord

I have no problem with them spending €65 million on replacement signs, it's better to have them to hand should they be needed and €65M is probably about right, I'm sure the signs cost a good bit of money each.

But this stands out as utter stupidity.

"I have been in touch with the NRA and they are considering putting up a few signs on a trial basis to see what people think.

It's a bit late asking what people think now that €65M has been spent, all your doing is giving people the opportunity to reject them meaning all that money would be a waste.

A trail means buying a few of them and trailing them before going on to purchase enough to cover the entire country.

Over all signage in Ireland is terrible, I've often drive down straight roads and seen big signs saying what towns are up ahead, then I get to a T-junction and there's no signs, or it's difficult to judge which way the sign is actually pointing. I pity any tourist that doesn't have a sat nav.

runawaybishop

ScumLord wrote: »

I have no problem with them spending €65 million on replacement signs, it's better to have them to hand should they be needed and €65M is probably about right, I'm sure the signs cost a good bit of money each.

But this stands out as utter stupidity.


It's a bit late asking what people think now that €65M has been spent, all your doing is giving people the opportunity to reject them meaning all that money would be a waste.

A trail means buying a few of them and trailing them before going on to purchase enough to cover the entire country.

Over all signage in Ireland is terrible, I've often drive down straight roads and seen big signs saying what towns are up ahead, then I get to a T-junction and there's no signs, or it's difficult to judge which way the sign is actually pointing. I pity any tourist that doesn't have a sat nav.

No money is to be spent on these new signs. The OP is just really confusingly edited.

Wibbs

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Marvellous how people who wish to exterminate Ireland as anything other than an appendage of England find something to post about. Cromwell would be proud.

Not this shíte again. It was 350 years ago. Build a bloody bridge for god's sake. Cromwell, our own Godwin.

wretcheddomain

paulbok wrote: »

A fair chunck of that €65m must have gone on the new(?) signs on the motorways, a distance marker every half kilometer. Surely a signage overkill if ever there was one.

It's a sign of things to come I'm afraid.

c_man

If Conradh na Gaeilge actually do give a flying fu(k about bi-lingualism, they can start with the all the vandalised road signs across the country that have the English names painted out.

gobnaitolunacy

c_man wrote: »

If Conradh na Gaeilge actually do give a flying fu(k about bi-lingualism, they can start with the all the vandalised road signs across the country that have the English names painted out.

They don't care for bilingualism, they would rather them all in one language, for that is the main aim of Conradh.

Davidius

This is the image that was tweeted, the colours are reversed compared to those in the Independent article. It looks fine to me but I would hope they took into account drivers who suffer from colour blindness.

People are getting worked up by anti-Irish language spin more than they are actively being denied something by language activists. The money is being spent anyway, this is a non-issue made to seem like an issue for the sake of complaining.

rawn wrote: »

We don't need Irish translations everywhere.

Many of the English placenames in this country are anglicisations of the Irish rather than the Irish being "translations".

CrazyRabbit

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Marvellous how people who wish to exterminate Ireland as anything other than an appendage of England find something to post about. Cromwell would be proud.

It's nothing about being Irish or being proud of our heritage. It's about 65 million Euro being wasted just weeks after the goverment drastically cut welfare payments for those most in need in order to 'save money'.

Having nice signs is all well and good, but it's such a low priority in our current situation and 65m being spent on them just cannot be justified.

I wonder which politician(s) got a thick brown envelope for pushing this through?

jamesnp

Just to clear this up, the OP is entirely wrong. There will not be €65m spent on this. That is how much WAS spent recently on renewing signs. These signs will not be replaced until the end of their natural life cycle (approx 15 years). Signs that do need to be replaced would be replaced with a new sign in the new format.

Therefore, this is a ZERO COST exercise.

Not only is the change good for Irish speakers, but also for English speakers. Research shows that both Italics (Irish) and Caps (English) take significantly longer to decipher than normal text. This is the reason that UK road signs are written as they are. The independent research on which these new signs are based takes into account the best practice internationally and will significantly increase safety on our roads, especially with our increasing elderly population.

-JP

Red Nissan

If they really, really had safety in mind the language would be English ONLY.

OK in urban areas, towns and cities in the 50km/h limit zones, be bilingual.

An Sionnach Glic

Inaccurate uninformed knee-jerk anti-Irish language hysteria strikes again. Well done, lads.

jamesnp

Red Nissan wrote: »

If they really, really had safety in mind the language would be English ONLY.

OK in urban areas, towns and cities in the 50km/h limit zones, be bilingual.

Like it or not, Irish is the first official language of the country. If you want monolingual road signs, they would be in Irish only.

That is clearly nonsensical, and that is why we have bilingual road signage.

Using high contrast colour to differentiate languages is proven to be highly effective, safe and avoids the problems of bilingual road signs like those used in Wales — i.e. Both languages same colour, style, size.

The research on this topic is conclusive; these signs are highly desirable whether or not you care about Irish.

-JP

phantom_lord

jamesnp wrote: »

Like it or not, Irish is the first official language of the country.

Is this not a bit silly all things considered?

Ficheall

If people can't read a news article correctly in English while sitting still, there's **** all chance of them managing to read something in Irish as they're flying past at 60mph...

jamesnp

phantom_lord wrote: »

Is this not a bit silly all things considered?

Perhaps, but it is a legal fact. I wouldn't vote to change it.

-JP

jamesnp

Ficheall wrote: »

If people can't read a news article correctly in English while sitting still, there's **** all chance of them managing to read something in Irish as they're flying past at 60mph...

Yeah, well that's a good point. All these people claiming to speak English don't seem to be able to understand the article.

-JP

Iwasfrozen

jamesnp wrote: »

Just to clear this up, the OP is entirely wrong. There will not be €65m spent on this. That is how much WAS spent recently on renewing signs. These signs will not be replaced until the end of their natural life cycle (approx 15 years). Signs that do need to be replaced would be replaced with a new sign in the new format.

Therefore, this is a ZERO COST exercise.

Not true, they're being put up on a trail basis, which means if they are rejected they will cost the taxpayer extra money.

jamesnp wrote: »

Not only is the change good for Irish speakers, but also for English speakers. Research shows that both Italics (Irish) and Caps (English) take significantly longer to decipher than normal text. This is the reason that UK road signs are written as they are. The independent research on which these new signs are based takes into account the best practice internationally and will significantly increase safety on our roads, especially with our increasing elderly population.

If you prioritised safety you'd call for monolingual English signs.

mackerski

razorblunt wrote: »

Is fearr Gaeilge briste ná Béarla cliste.

Ní fearr!

jamesnp

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not true, they're being put up on a trail basis, which means if they are rejected they will cost the taxpayer extra money.


If you prioritised safety you'd call for monolingual English signs.

I don't prioritize safety blindly above all other considerations. However, this is a highly safety focused proposition; considerably more so than the status quo.

As an Irish speaker who uses Irish socially and also in business, I do however also believe that the improved status of Irish on the signs is a major step forward. I make no apologies for wanting my language of choice to be equally represented on our country's signage. In the same way that you would be highly angered if English was removed from the signs, I would be highly annoyed if Irish was removed. The Irish on the current signage is illegible for all intents and purposes, and is there only to pay lip service to the language — I applaud the Minister for actually wanting to make the Irish functional.

-JP

Iwasfrozen

jamesnp wrote: »

I don't prioritize safety blindly above all other considerations. However, this is a highly safety focused proposition; considerably more so than the status quo.

As an Irish speaker who uses Irish socially and also in business, I do however also believe that the improved status of Irish on the signs is a major step forward. I make no apologies for wanting my language of choice to be equally represented on our country's signage. In the same way that you would be highly angered if English was removed from the signs, I would be highly annoyed if Irish was removed. The Irish on the current signage is illegible for all intents and purposes, and is there only to pay lip service to the language — I applaud the Minister for actually wanting to make the Irish functional.

Safety and legibility should be our only concern on the road. Having said I I understand your position but Irish places names tend to be more cumbersome than their English translations. Written in the same font and letter size the larger Irish name will inevitably draw the drivers eye. A smaller font must be used to compensate for this or the signs won't be truly equal.

As an Irish speaker who uses Irish socially and also in business,

Out of interest how do you use Irish for business?

Muise...

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Out of interest how do you use Irish for business?

I'm guessing he speaks and writes it.

Iwasfrozen

Muise... wrote: »

I'm guessing he speaks and writes it.

? I'm sure he probably does but unless the speaking and writing is directly related to his business (and how was my question) then I'm not sure how that's relevant.

jamesnp

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Out of interest how do you use Irish for business?

I work in the language services business (translation, proofreading, editing, subtitling, transcription, dubbing, voiceovers, multilingual web design, multilingual IVR — think of something, we'll probably do it). Though we do sometimes handle other languages, we specalize in Irish and would carry out the vast majority of the business in Irish.

-jp

Muise...

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

? I'm sure he probably does but unless the speaking and writing is directly related to his business (and how was my question) then I'm not sure how that's relevant.

what always seems to get forgotten in discussions on the Irish language is that, as well as people who did not like learning it in school, this country is also home to people who speak it as their mother tongue. They even manage to conduct all sorts of business through it. Imagine!

Iwasfrozen

jamesnp wrote: »

I work in the language services business (translation, proofreading, editing, subtitling, transcription, dubbing, voiceovers, multilingual web design, multilingual IVR — think of something, we'll probably do it). Though we do sometimes handle other languages, we specalize in Irish and would carry out the vast majority of the business in Irish.

Fair enough it's a good sector, there'll always be demand for you business.

Iwasfrozen

Muise... wrote: »

what always seems to get forgotten in discussions on the Irish language is that, as well as people who did not like learning it in school, this country is also home to people who speak it as their mother tongue. They even manage to conduct all sorts of business through it. Imagine!

To be fair they are government related jobs, satisfying an artificial demand created by the government for ideological reasons. I'm not saying anything bad about the sector, business is business and that business is as good as any other but that's what it is at the end of the day.

jamesnp

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Fair enough it's a good sector, there'll always be demand for you business.

I should probably point out that while I have a vested interest in the sector and therefore Irish, that we do not do any type of work on road signs!!! My interest in this topic is based on the fact that as a person whose eye jumps to the Irish first I find the current signs dangerous... and also because at a pretty deep level I find language diversity pretty cool.

-jp

Iwasfrozen

jamesnp wrote: »

I should probably point out that while I have a vested interest in the sector and therefore Irish, that we do not do any type of work on road signs!!! My interest in this topic is based on the fact that as a person whose eye jumps to the Irish first I find the current signs dangerous... and also because at a pretty deep level I find language diversity pretty cool.

In fairness to you I didn't think you did have a vested interest in these signs.

jamesnp

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

To be fair they are government related jobs, satisfying an artificial demand created by the government for ideological reasons. I'm not saying anything bad about the sector, business is business and that business is as good as any other but that's what it is at the end of the day.

Umm... I wouldn't totally agree with you on that. I'll agree there's a lot of nonsense like translating annual reports that no one reads in either Irish or English, but we do an awful lot of work for the private sector which is elective (i.e. not required by legislation).

-jp

Days 298

I think its time we have a vote on the status of Irish. Do people want it to be given equal status in cases such as road signs could be argued all day but a vote would sort it out. I wish we had votes on things like this Lobbyists get more say now than the people on matters.

I don't mind the irish on signs as long as it's smaller. Looking at a road sign shouldn't be a hard word search. The current way is fine.

Iwasfrozen

jamesnp wrote: »

Umm... I wouldn't totally agree with you on that. I'll agree there's a lot of nonsense like translating annual reports that no one reads in either Irish or English, but we do an awful lot of work for the private sector which is elective (i.e. not required by legislation).

That's interesting, what sort of thing do they ask you to do?

Herb Powell

Did anyone who's complaining even read the fuccking article??? Or did ye just see "Irish road signs" and start foaming at the mouth??

The hatred on here for the Irish language is unbelievable.

Iwasfrozen

Days 298 wrote: »

I think its time we have a vote on the status of Irish. Do people want it to be given equal status in cases such as road signs could be argued all day but a vote would sort it out. I wish we had votes on things like this Lobbyists get more say now than the people on matters.

I don't mind the irish on signs as long as it's smaller. Looking at a road sign shouldn't be a hard word search. The current way is fine.

No vote required my friend, look at article 8.3 of the constitution.

Article 8.3 wrote:

Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the State or in any part thereof.

Days 298

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No vote required my friend, look at article 8.3 of the constitution.

I know. I wish there was.

Iwasfrozen

Days 298 wrote: »

I know. I wish there was.

Why? In theory Irish could be completely removed from signs without a vote.

Days 298

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Why? In theory Irish could be completely removed from signs without a vote.

But politicians won't do that. The only way irish would be knocked off signs would be if people asked for it in numbers. For now the only people interested in the signs are the irish language lobby.

Iwasfrozen

Days 298 wrote: »

But politicians won't do that. The only way irish would be knocked off signs would be if people asked for it in numbers. For now the only people interested in the signs are the irish language lobby.

But don't you see how important the article is? Even forget about road signs in the grand scheme they're not important, article 8.3 give state permission to use either language in any of it's official capacities. It practically invalidates 8.2 and 8.1.

At least there'd be no labour costs in erecting them, just get a few Jobbridge lackeys in.

NuckingFacker

Deleted User wrote: »

At least there'd be no labour costs in erecting them, just get a few Jobbridge lackeys in.

Putting up road signs is only slightly less lucrative than owning a money printing machine. The rates charged for erecting a road sign are from the planet zog. Same goes for pretty much everything else associated with roads-maintenance. It's another world, a cosy world full of friends, departments with deep pockets, cartells and red-tape. Or so I'm told.

NuckingFacker

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Putting up road signs is only slightly less lucrative than owning a money printing machine. The rates charged for erecting a road sign are from the planet zog. Same goes for pretty much everything else associated with roads-maintenance. It's another world, a cosy world full of friends, departments with deep pockets, cartells and red-tape. Or so I'm told.

Flowers and the like is brilliant one on a local level.

rawn

rawn wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/green-light-for-plan-to-make-road-signs-more-irish-29736922.html



Does anyone else see this as a massive waste of time and money? I still cannot understand why we cling to this dead language so fiercely. We live in a country where people either speak both Irish and English, or just English. We don't need Irish translations everywhere. Don't get me started on the pointlessness of mandatorily teaching it in schools :rolleyes: Surely it's time we stopped fighting to keep the Irish language relevant?

Those signs are so much easier to read than the current ones, ignore the politics of the language for a moment and just look at the readability.

fits

Rabble rabble rabble. I've never read as much bruscar in my life.

We have TWO official languages in Ireland

Bilingual roadsigns are nothing unusual around Europe.

These signs did not cost 65 million euro. They are being brought in gradually as the old ones need replacing!

And they are a lot better and clearer in my opinion at least.

Iwasfrozen

fits wrote: »

Bilingual roadsigns are nothing unusual around Europe.

Ah that's all right then. As long as they do it in Europe.

JuliusCaesar

Driveby Dogboy wrote: »

thats a bit irish

I never heard this expression till I emigrated to England in the 70s. But why do IRISH people use it so pejoratively against themselves? What other nation or people would say something like this against themselves? Are we so colonialised that we accept and internalise the oppressors prejudice as regards our inferiority?

It is like somebody having poor self-esteem, but an entire nation!:eek: