€65m on Irish road signs

Sheldons Brain

I'm shocked to see them spending this kind of money on road signs

There is no actual proposal to spend any money on roadsigns. Not that this will prevent a thread on boards.

jamesr123

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

There is no actual proposal to spend any money on roadsigns. Not that this will prevent a thread on boards.

I know the government have their heads up their own asses but even they couldnt be that stupid considering the state of the hospitals, schools, public sector.. That money is so badly needed in other places.

That username is already in use.

jamesr123 wrote: »

That money is so badly needed in other places.

Yes, the money is needed for special schools for people like you.

jamesr123

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Yes, the money is needed for special schools for people like you.

fuc.k you...............

That username is already in use.

jamesr123 wrote: »

fuc.k you...............

Hilarious how a certain mod gave me a yellow card, yet jamesr123 got nothing for telling me to f off. No surprise there seeing as the mod is anti-Gaeilge and has it in for me from previous Gaelige threads. Pathetic.

Micky Dolenz

Mod

Or maybe we have better things to do at silly o clock on a Sunday morning. Quit your whining.

Be nice to eachother please or stop posting.

Boombastic

what's the point in this? this time next year the hedges will be grown over the signs anyway. It'd pay them better to learn how to cut hedges and keep the signs they have visible.



also there seems to be various ways of spelling some town names. Can they not consult with each other instead of having the spelling different on each sign for the place?

Filibuster

The Gaelgoir terrorists made the RTPI signs confusing as fcuk and now they're trying their hand at road safety..

Carlos Orange

Filibuster wrote: »

The Gaelgoir terrorists made the RTPI signs confusing as fcuk and now they're trying their hand at road safety..

Can't end up much worse than

http://safedrivingforwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/new-irish-learner-permit-2013.jpg

cilles man

Road signs are becoming a thing of the past as a lot of people use sat navs, so trying to justify spending 65m on this project is a joke.

Days 298

psinno wrote: »

Can't end up much worse than

http://safedrivingforwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/new-irish-learner-permit-2013.jpg

I'll never understand why we aren't allowed to have an English only option for passports or driving licences(or irish I guess). The layout of the new DL is impractical at best. I don't think anyone will ever use the Irish on it. The small group of irish radicals are only fooling themselves if they think measures that make irish look more prominent like that will make the public more favourable to their cause.

Royal Legend

Its important to keep our language alive anyway we can.
Also this is €65m going into our economy, through Irish road sign companies, so a boost for jobs as well.

psinno

psinno wrote: »

Can't end up much worse than

http://safedrivingforwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/new-irish-learner-permit-2013.jpg

Cad atá cearr leis? What's wrong with it?

:pac:

cilles man

cilles man wrote: »

Road signs are becoming a thing of the past as a lot of people use sat navs, so trying to justify spending 65m on this project is a joke.

Sat navs! A road sign will be far less distracting than a sat nav.

thebaz

Royal Legend wrote: »

Its important to keep our language alive anyway we can.
Also this is €65m going into our economy, through Irish road sign companies, so a boost for jobs as well.

meanwhile, ther is little money for Childrens hospitals or tacking the increasing rampant problems of mental illness & addiction in our society - I'm all for promoting Irish , but please lets prioritise where our money is spent.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

meanwhile, ther is little money for Childrens hospitals or tacking the increasing rampant problems of mental illness & addiction in our society - I'm all for promoting Irish , but please lets prioritise where our money is spent.

Don't forget that economic activity is about moving money from one account to another and generating as much banking activity to "charge" for.

Not spending it on services that don't generate economic activity.

LordSutch

This is the way they tackle Motorway signs in Wales . . .

http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0962629809000420-gr2.jpg

Filibuster

Royal Legend wrote: »

Its important to keep our language alive anyway we can.
Also this is €65m going into our economy, through Irish road sign companies, so a boost for jobs as well.

Pointless investments don't create good sustainable growth/jobs. We could have built a giant pyramid outside Athlone and ended the recession...

Imagine the amount of money wasted on translating every government document and statute into Irish only for it to sit in a dusty warehouse.

Filibuster

LordSutch wrote: »

This is the way they tackle Motorway signs in Wales . . .

http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0962629809000420-gr2.jpg

Jesus what a mess

Royal Legend

thebaz wrote: »

meanwhile, ther is little money for Childrens hospitals or tacking the increasing rampant problems of mental illness & addiction in our society - I'm all for promoting Irish , but please lets prioritise where our money is spent.

€65m over a few years is not going to make much difference to a minister of health who is over running the health budget by over €0.6bn annually.

This money creates jobs, that's important too.

Days 298

LordSutch wrote: »

This is the way they tackle Motorway signs in Wales . . .

http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0962629809000420-gr2.jpg

It's like a word search! That's not helpful if your approaching it at 70mph in with some traffic if it's lashing rain. You'd nearly want to pullover to read it.

Days 298

Royal Legend wrote: »

€65m over a few years is not going to make much difference to a minister of health who is over running the health budget by over €0.6bn annually.

This money creates jobs, that's important too.

The signs will be replaced when the old ones need to be changed. No new jobs, no extra investment. Just some government committees doing sfa for a few years.

Carlos Orange

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cad atá cearr leis? What's wrong with it?

:pac:

Van Ön súlyos

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mackerski

LordSutch wrote: »

This is the way they tackle Motorway signs in Wales . . .

http://origin-ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0962629809000420-gr2.jpg

That's not a motorway sign. What it is, though, is a mess.

Big Davey

rawn wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/green-light-for-plan-to-make-road-signs-more-irish-29736922.html



Does anyone else see this as a massive waste of time and money? I still cannot understand why we cling to this dead language so fiercely. We live in a country where people either speak both Irish and English, or just English. We don't need Irish translations everywhere. Don't get me started on the pointlessness of mandatorily teaching it in schools :rolleyes: Surely it's time we stopped fighting to keep the Irish language relevant?

Pity they don't wash the ones they already have. I cant see some of my local road signs with the filth on them.

Capt'n Midnight

Yeah I get the whole no extra cost thing.

BUT using the same font/case for both means it going to be worse than present under bad lighting conditions. Think reflection , rain , sodium lights , low angle sunlight.

Days 298

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Yeah I get the whole no extra cost thing.

BUT using the same font/case for both means it going to be worse than present under bad lighting conditions. Think reflection , rain , sodium lights , low angle sunlight.

And we will have two different standard types of sign for years to come. The Irish motorist needs as much help as he can get. Maybe put the Irish on the reverse :pac:

Maybe have the Irish in a smaller font. But if they are changed they should be changed all at the same time. Not the odd one up and down the country.

Boombastic

do they give a number of signs this 65 million will provide?

keeponhurling

So they are replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs.

What are people getting annoyed about, they want them replaced with English or Irish only signs? I think bilingual is a good compromise, and they do this in many countries where there are two languages.

For the people who are annoyed that we are replacing the signs, what life span do you think is reasonable for a sign?

For those who think 65million is a lot to replace every sign in the country, what figure do they think is reasonable, and how did they arrive at this?

Seems like some people are just complaining for complaining sake.

keeponhurling

I genuinely don't know how this got into a debate about Irish language, some people at even the mention of it fly off the handle.

To expect anything other than bilingual signs, as we have always had, is a bit naive?

keeponhurling

keeponhurling wrote: »

For the people who are annoyed that we are replacing the signs, what life span do you think is reasonable for a sign?
.

Signs should last about 20 years, but it depends on the paint used on them. Some of the brown tourist signs along the (new) M6 have already had to be replaced as they’d faded too much.

As it is the M6 (opened in 2008) between Athlone & Kinnegad is already on its third set of signs,
the first set were replaced when the road was changed from N6 to M6,
the second set when they decided to change the rules on positioning & content on the signs.
Chances are the third set will be changed to accommodate the new style.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Where are they going to get 65 million from. And would it not be better maybe spending it on our roads or perhaps street lighting on dark dangerous roads where people has been killed.

osarusan

Can somebody change the title to say " actually, 65m won't be spent on road signs - OP was mistaken"?

mackerski

keeponhurling wrote: »

I genuinely don't know how this got into a debate about Irish language, some people at even the mention of it fly off the handle.

While linguistic mudslinging probably isn't a useful basis on which to discuss the proposals, it can't be denied that the catalyst for this whole proposal is desires of the Irish language lobby. Any action has an equal but opposite reaction...

keeponhurling

mackerski wrote: »

While linguistic mudslinging probably isn't a useful basis on which to discuss the proposals, it can't be denied that the catalyst for this whole proposal is desires of the Irish language lobby. Any action has an equal but opposite reaction...

But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added

Carlos Orange

keeponhurling wrote: »

But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added

A change was lobbied for by a special interests group and was approved.

Now people who disagree with the special interests group are unhappy about it.

Hardly surprising stuff.

Poll Dubh

It would be great to see these signs in place before we mark 100 years of independence.

Grayson

keeponhurling wrote: »

So they are replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs.

What are people getting annoyed about, they want them replaced with English or Irish only signs? I think bilingual is a good compromise, and they do this in many countries where there are two languages.

For the people who are annoyed that we are replacing the signs, what life span do you think is reasonable for a sign?

For those who think 65million is a lot to replace every sign in the country, what figure do they think is reasonable, and how did they arrive at this?

Seems like some people are just complaining for complaining sake.

The OP's article said that they just finished replacing all the signs. And that it had cost €65 million.

While no signs will be replaced in the short-term – the National Roads Authority (NRA) has just spent €65m re-signing the road network – the new ones may be used when needed.

Pro irish people are saying that it should be done because irish is great etc.
The Anti Irish (well, maybe not anti as more apathetic-irish) are saying it's a waste of money.

Thing is it's not going to happen. they're just talking about introducing the new signs as replacements for ones that get broken, vandalised etc. People are arguing about something that isn't the case.

For what it matters, I think the new ones look good, but I'd like to see the colours changed. I think the irish language is more visible and easier to read (might just be me) and since the vast majority of drivers will be looking at the english part, it makes sense to have that as the more visible. That's just from a safety point of view.

_Kaiser_

Grayson wrote: »

The OP's article said that they just finished replacing all the signs. And that it had cost €65 million.



Pro irish people are saying that it should be done because irish is great etc.
The Anti Irish (well, maybe not anti as more apathetic-irish) are saying it's a waste of money.

Thing is it's not going to happen. they're just talking about introducing the new signs as replacements for ones that get broken, vandalised etc. People are arguing about something that isn't the case.

For what it matters, I think the new ones look good, but I'd like to see the colours changed. I think the irish language is more visible and easier to read (might just be me) and since the vast majority of drivers will be looking at the english part, it makes sense to have that as the more visible. That's just from a safety point of view.

Shamelessly stealing from my own thread over in Motors on this:

Kaiser2000 wrote:

.. remembering that every Irish speaker has fluent English anyway, in a country with scarce resources (one which is borrowing to keep the lights on), there are things of far more importance and relevance that need addressing at the moment (such as the HSE crisis) than meddling with perfectly serviceable road signs for no tangible benefit

This topic is to do with how the proposed changes affect the legibility and clarity of road signs that people will be passing at 120 km/h (and at night).
If the only reason for the change is to give greater/more prominence to a language that the majority cannot understand then that is not a good enough justification.

Also, introducing these on a "phased"/"as-needed" basis just means that you'll end up with a mess of conflicting design on the same stretch of road, making things even MORE unclear.

Iwasfrozen

Poll Dubh wrote: »

It would be great to see these signs in place before we mark 100 years of independence.

From what are you measuring that? Many would say we haven't yet achieved independence.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

From what are you measuring that? Many would say we haven't yet achieved independence.

'Many' are wrong.

Iwasfrozen

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

'Many' are wrong.

Funnily enough I agree.

_Kaiser_

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

'Many' are wrong.

I don't know.. he has a point.

First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!

Iwasfrozen

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I don't know.. he has a point.

First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!

Independence is a myth, we're members of the international community and globalisation has been the prominent ideology since WWII.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I don't know.. he has a point.

First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!

I know what you are saying, and I expected someone to come along and write something like the above but (aside from the fact that Poll Dubh was specifically referring to independence from Britain) for all intents and purposes we are a free nation with the some of the highest living standards in the world. Small countries with open market economies will always in some way have to accept the influence of their larger neighbours.

You are right about the church of course but remember that Ireland was one of the most religious and Catholic countries in the world and the people were mostly happy at the time to accept its privileged position in Irish society. As for the leaders being mouthpieces for the EU, that's a popular one since the bailout deal was signed but it's nothing more than a sound bite!

Back OT, we already have bilingual signs which I think are already perfectly legible and to change them would them to the proposed ones would be a joke!

mackerski

keeponhurling wrote: »

But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added

The signs we have today arose out of studies (many of them UK-based, so yes, we diverged from them) of how best to lay out road signs. It was a broad brief driven by the needs of road users.

This experiment is driven by the specific desires of one lobby that has no expertise in the are of transportation. It isn't clear that the planned experiments are as comprehensively informed as last time round. Indeed, based on the mock-up published by the minister himself, I am not convinced that usability was on the requirements list.

So let me turn your point around - we already have bilingual signs, why would we need different ones? At least we know what the ones we have were based on.

superelliptic

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As has been said they're ugly, cluttered, garish and it's harder to see the English name.

I saw a picture of them on the Irish Times website - they look grand :rolleyes:




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-road-signs-with-parity-for-irish-may-be-introduced-1.1587458

Riskymove

mackerski wrote: »

So let me turn your point around - we already have bilingual signs, why would we need different ones? At least we know what the ones we have were based on.

the problem is with the law introduced which requires the Irish and english to be the same size and equal status etc

as with many of our problems, bad law is at the heart of it

Grayson

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Shamelessly stealing from my own thread over in Motors on this:

Actually I stole from my post back on page 7.

Iwasfrozen

superelliptic wrote: »

I saw a picture of them on the Irish Times website - they look grand :rolleyes:




http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-road-signs-with-parity-for-irish-may-be-introduced-1.1587458

Garish. :puke: