Included in the Register of Electors ...

ValerieR

Shortly before the Referenda in October, I received a letter from my County Council informing me I had been included on the supplement to the Register of Electors. Along with this letter, I received a polling card in the post for the Referenda.

I have been residing in Ireland for quite a few years and am married to an Irish citizen but have never requested citizenship.
I still vote in my native country as I feel my vote there has much more of an impact seeing that the political structure is much more decentralised.

In addition to the fact that I would be outlawed by voting in both European countries, it certainly wouldn't be within my rights to vote on a constitutional amendment as a non-citizen !!!!

I have never requested this inclusion to the Voters Register here and am wondering who has the authority to submit my details unbeknownst to me (and as a consequence include me in the "did-not-vote" category!).

Through this letter, I am also informed that my name will go live on the Register in February. There is an option of "opting out" but I think this only has the effect of removing my details from public consultation (is this correct?). Do anyone know what is the process for getting my details removed from their database once and for all?

Thanks.

Victor

As a resident, you are entitled to vote in at least in local elections.

Use this form to submit correct details for ever resident (over 17) at your residence to your local council. www.checktheregister.ie/appforms/RFA1_English_Form.pdf‎

Five Lamps

Which of the following voting categories do you fall into?

- Irish citizens may vote at every election and referendum;
- British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;
- Other European Union (EU) citizens may vote at European and local elections*
- Non-EU citizens may vote at local elections only

As you say yourself, you are resident here for some time. You really should be registered to vote where you live and where decisions made locally and nationally impact you. I would suggest that you need to remove yourself from the electorate in your native country while you are living here and sort out your voting rights in this country.

I fail to see why you would vote in a country that you no longer live - decisions made their will have almost no impact on your life now (assuming that they don't declare war on us! )

Pro Hoc Vice

Five Lamps wrote: »

Which of the following voting categories do you fall into?

- Irish citizens may vote at every election and referendum;
- British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;
- Other European Union (EU) citizens may vote at European and local elections*
- Non-EU citizens may vote at local elections only

As you say yourself, you are resident here for some time. You really should be registered to vote where you live and where decisions made locally and nationally impact you. I would suggest that you need to remove yourself from the electorate in your native country while you are living here and sort out your voting rights in this country.

I fail to see why you would vote in a country that you no longer live - decisions made their will have almost no impact on your life now (assuming that they don't declare war on us! )

Many countries allow Nationals living abroad to vote in some or indeed all elections. Many countries unlike Ireland see it as a good thing for non resident national people to help in the difficult decision of governance.

blastit

I am also interested in learning if they can add your name to list without consulting you

You really should be registered to vote where you live and where decisions made locally and nationally impact you. I would suggest that you need to remove yourself from the electorate in your native country while you are living here and sort out your voting rights in this country.

not unless she wants to

blastit

ValerieR wrote: »

Shortly before the Referenda in October, I received a letter from my County Council informing me I had been included on the supplement to the Register of Electors. Along with this letter, I received a polling card in the post for the Referenda.

I have been residing in Ireland for quite a few years and am married to an Irish citizen but have never requested citizenship.
I still vote in my native country as I feel my vote there has much more of an impact seeing that the political structure is much more decentralised.

In addition to the fact that I would be outlawed by voting in both European countries, it certainly wouldn't be within my rights to vote on a constitutional amendment as a non-citizen !!!!

I have never requested this inclusion to the Voters Register here and am wondering who has the authority to submit my details unbeknownst to me (and as a consequence include me in the "did-not-vote" category!).

Through this letter, I am also informed that my name will go live on the Register in February. There is an option of "opting out" but I think this only has the effect of removing my details from public consultation (is this correct?). Do anyone know what is the process for getting my details removed from their database once and for all?

Thanks.

Write and tell them you do not want to be on the register at all. i think opt out may refer to the extended register which is used by advertisers

ValerieR

Five Lamps wrote: »

…./…

I fail to see why you would vote in a country that you no longer live - decisions made their will have almost no impact on your life now (assuming that they don't declare war on us! )

I am a European citizen, vote in my native country for all elections through a proxy or in person when possible.
It is a choice. I'm afraid that it'll be so as long as we have to contend with the politicians we have here... whatever their trend, they are, to me, exactly the same and whatever I do … isn’t going to change anything ! I don’t however think this very debate really belongs here and I don’t really want the mods to move this thread to the politics forum or until I have a better idea about : Who has the authority to add someone to the voting register ?

I strongly feel that it should be one’s decision and no one else’s and would appreciate people’s legal views on this.
As mentioned in my OP, I probably was included in the “did-not-vote” category which to me is wrong in addition to now being outlawed by being registered in 2 countries at the same time, against my will.

Thank you.
V

blastit

ValerieR wrote: »

I am a European citizen, vote in my native country for all elections through a proxy or in person when possible.
It is a choice. I'm afraid that it'll be so as long as we have to contend with the politicians we have here... whatever their trend, they are, to me, exactly the same and whatever I do … isn’t going to change anything ! I don’t however think this very debate really belongs here and I don’t really want the mods to move this thread to the politics forum for a until I have a better idea about : Who has the authority to add someone to the voting register ?

I strongly feel that it should be one’s decision and no one else’s and would appreciate people’s legal views on this.
As mentioned in my OP, I probably was included in the “did-not-vote” category which to me is wrong in addition to now being outlawed by being registered in 2 countries at the same time, against my will.

Thank you.
V

From: Preparing & Maintaining the
Register of Electors

6.2 House-to-house inquiries [R. 5/2nd Sch/92]
Electoral law requires that registration authorities undertake house-to-houseinquiries or other sufficient inquiry in the preparation of the Register. Each borough or town council is also required to make the necessary house-tohouse or other sufficient inquiries in their areas and to compile and furnish to the registration authority, on or before the specified date (1 October), lists in the form of a draft Register for the borough or town area. For the purposes of compiling the Register, house-to-house inquiries are the key means of data collection as they yield the most accurate and comprehensive results. It is important, therefore, that registration authorities have effective operating structures in place to ensure that the work is carried out efficiently and effectively and with the highest degree of accuracy and
comprehensiveness.

ValerieR

Thank you blastit for providing the text concerning the preparation of the Register of Electors.

I do apologise for asking ... I am no legal specialist and texts are sometimes full of meanings ...

Does this text confirm that the authorities need a reciprocal communication with the person in order to include him/her on the Register ? or does the term "other sufficient inquiries" make provisions for the authority's action without the need for consent ?

Thank you for your help.

V

srsly78

OP you can vote in EU elections, and maybe local ones - but not in national elections (for the Dáil). I wonder if there is a different register for different elections? The eligibility criteria varies a lot...

Same everywhere in europe, once you register as resident you can vote in the euro elections. I got an unreal amount of spam mail for this during my time abroad. This is just Ireland following it's legal obligations.

Aside: Irish nationals can vote in national UK elections once resident (but other non-uk eu nationals can't).

blastit

ValerieR wrote: »

Thank you blastit for providing the text concerning the preparation of the Register of Electors.

I do apologise for asking ... I am no legal specialist and texts are sometimes full of meanings ...

Does this text confirm that the authorities need a reciprocal communication with the person in order to include him/her on the Register ? or does the term "other sufficient inquiries" make provisions for the authority's action without the need for consent ?

Thank you for your help.

V

I do not know, I am not legal expert either. That is all the info I have

Maybe the franchise dept could confirm.

Thoie

OP, the short answer is that pretty much anyone can add anyone else to the register. Political parties used add people in the past, based on local knowledge. No reciprocal communications are required. If I have your name and address I can add you, afaik.

srsly78

Being on the electoral register can be used for proof of address purposes when opening a bank account (still needs 1 more supporting document tho like utility bill). Surely if it's so easy to be added to the register then this is leaving things wide open for scammers?

blastit

Thoie wrote: »

OP, the short answer is that pretty much anyone can add anyone else to the register. Political parties used add people in the past, based on local knowledge. No reciprocal communications are required. If I have your name and address I can add you, afaik.

That is not correct

Thoie

blastit wrote: »

That is not correct

Just checked, and the details needed are Name, DOB and address. If you look at RFA1 on checktheregister.ie you'll see how easy it is to register someone. Just fill in the details, and post it in. Presumably the officials then validate that the person exists (using the name/address/DOB), but once they find the person exists I can't see them getting into a conversation about it.

The assumption would be if you're over 18, and someone has provided the details, then it'll happen. The next you'd hear about it is when political bumpf/polling cards start arriving for you.

blastit

Thoie wrote: »

Just checked, and the details needed are Name, DOB and address. If you look at RFA1 on checktheregister.ie you'll see how easy it is to register someone. Just fill in the details, and post it in. Presumably the officials then validate that the person exists (using the name/address/DOB), but once they find the person exists I can't see them getting into a conversation about it.

The assumption would be if you're over 18, and someone has provided the details, then it'll happen. The next you'd hear about it is when political bumpf/polling cards start arriving for you.

Did you read the declaration at 5?And how do youknow just anyones date of birth.?assumptions indeed

Thoie

blastit wrote: »

Did you read the declaration at 5?And how do youknow just anyones date of birth.?assumptions indeed

The declarations just say that the information is true, not that you've asked permission to do it. I know lots of my friends'/family's addresses and DOBs. Thanks to Facebook, I even know the birthdays of people I'm barely acquainted with.

blastit

Thoie wrote: »

The declarations just say that the information is true, not that you've asked permission to do it. I know lots of my friends'/family's addresses and DOBs. Thanks to Facebook, I even know the birthdays of people I'm barely acquainted with.

you do what you want, i am trying to help the OP

blastit

OP what did you do?

ValerieR

blastit wrote: »

OP what did you do?

I didn't do anything yet ...... documenting myself before I react. :-)

Maybe we will get additional information on this thread ...

Thank you.
V

blastit

ValerieR wrote: »

I didn't do anything yet ...... documenting myself before I react. :-)

Maybe we will get additional information on this thread ...

Thank you.
V

you are right - do not believe everything you read online tho. Let us know what happens

Five Lamps

ValerieR wrote: »

I am a European citizen, vote in my native country for all elections through a proxy or in person when possible.
It is a choice. I'm afraid that it'll be so as long as we have to contend with the politicians we have here... whatever their trend, they are, to me, exactly the same and whatever I do … isn’t going to change anything ! I don’t however think this very debate really belongs here and I don’t really want the mods to move this thread to the politics forum or until I have a better idea about : Who has the authority to add someone to the voting register ?

So let me understand this - you don't like the politicians here who are elected by voters, like you, who are registered to vote.

Your attitude is more baffling than your legal question which is really quite simple. What's even more baffling is voting for government in a country you no longer live in.

I strongly feel that it should be one’s decision and no one else’s and would appreciate people’s legal views on this.
As mentioned in my OP, I probably was included in the “did-not-vote” category which to me is wrong in addition to now being outlawed by being registered in 2 countries at the same time, against my will.

Thank you.
V

Ireland operates on the basis of a secret ballot. The only category that you will be counted in is the 'total electorate' category.

The law requires the local authorities to maintain a register of electors. They use various means to compile this. Once you are on it, there's little chance of getting it off it. As voting is not mandatory, you could simply just not vote.

blastit

Five Lamps wrote: »

So let me understand this - you don't like the politicians here who are elected by voters, like you, who are registered to vote.

Your attitude is more baffling than your legal question which is really quite simple. What's even more baffling is voting for government in a country you no longer live in.



Ireland operates on the basis of a secret ballot. The only category that you will be counted in is the 'total electorate' category.

The law requires the local authorities to maintain a register of electors. They use various means to compile this. Once you are on it, there's little chance of getting it off it. As voting is not mandatory, you could simply just not vote.

wrong

Five Lamps

blastit wrote: »

wrong

Death perhaps? I haven't seen a form that you can voluntarily delist yourself. If there was, we wouldn't be on to page 2 of this thread.

ValerieR

Five Lamps wrote: »

.../...
Your attitude is more baffling than your legal question which is really quite simple. What's even more baffling is voting for government in a country you no longer live in
.../...

This particular subject is out of scope really ... I don't live in my native country but might still have some interests there ...

Five Lamps wrote: »

... /...
The law requires the local authorities to maintain a register of electors. They use various means to compile this.
.../...

I understand that part of the law. It's the method I am baffled with and am questioning ....

blastit wrote: »

.../... Let us know what happens

I will :-)

Five Lamps

ValerieR wrote: »

I understand that part of the law. It's the method I am baffled with and am questioning ....

They have people who call door to door.

blastit

Five Lamps wrote: »

They have people who call door to door.

where they get your name if they do not call

234

ValerieR wrote: »

I understand that part of the law. It's the method I am baffled with and am questioning ....

Perhaps you are on the verge of discovering Ireland's own mass surveillance. Keep going! You could be the next Snowdon! (O'Snowdon?)

Five Lamps

blastit wrote: »

where they get your name if they do not call

"other local enquiries"

Who lives in that house across the road?

Five Lamps

Thanks, I'll stick him down.

Politicians used to be well known for adding people.

Carawaystick

ValerieR wrote: »

Through this letter, I am also informed that my name will go live on the Register in February. There is an option of "opting out" but I think this only has the effect of removing my details from public consultation (is this correct?). Do anyone know what is the process for getting my details removed from their database once and for all?

Thanks.

If you are living here, and a eu citizen, you can vote in Local and European Elections. Local elections are for County councillors, ad if you're in Galway city, city councillors. European Elections elect MEP's, you probably do this in your country of citizenship ayway, It's probably an EU decision as to whether it's fair to have more than 1 vote for these, but at the minute you can vote early and often*

What you need to do is write to the franchise section of your local authority stating you are an EU citizen ( be better to tell them which one) and to amend the register as they are mistaken.

Or do nothing and not vote.

There is one register, it has your name and address and electoral number( which is a code of letters and numbers, but I digress) a code related to your citizenship outlining which types of elections you can vote in (P D E L)**
Then there's the edited register: this allows direct marketing contact you. You really don't want to be on the edited register.


* used to casually denote electoral fraud by republican parties/ all parties

**P Presidential/Referendum: Irish citizens only ( supposed to be anyway!)
D Dail elections: Irish and British citizens
E European Parliament: elections EU citizens
L Local: All residents