Animal Rescues

sillysmiles

I have a question.

I have read a few suggestions on here that not all rescues are legitimate or ethical. (This is reading between the lines - so I may be wrong)

I understand that people can't name rescues, but I was wondering what one would look for in a rescue and how to determine if they should be avoided?

Rips

Keeping reading between the lines! :P

Seriously though - in the past month I have seen some seriously dodgy goings on, usually propagated on facebook - I would have legitimate concerns where the money is going.

Just do your research, look at their policies, check out their webpage, facebook, look at the conditions where the animals are housed.

I've seen some rescue facebook pages where the photos look like situations animals should be removed from on welfare grounds, not housed!

Strange fundraising... unrealistic aims, overly emotive campaigns with no basis in truth.

There is absolutely no reason rescues should have to operate under a cloak, it should be transparent.

I know of one rescue who are basically enabling a large puppymill ... they meet the proprietor on a back country lane and take all his redundant breeding bitches. Usually 'pedigrees' which are easy to rehome.

These dogs have serious issues, they get to 6/7 yrs old with no socialisation - and the rescue don't want prospective owners to know they came from a puppy mill, incase it comes to media attention and their guy gets spooked. Its a terrible practice, and has implications for the dogs aswell - they need understanding of their history.

It gives all rescue animals a bad name, they often need quite a lot of ongoing veterinary care - it puts prospective owners off rehoming in future, because their last pet cost them a fortune in medication, died young, was severely overbed/inbred, had serious behavioural problems. Meanwhile, 'healthy' otherwise unspoiled mongrels are rotting in the pound.

They do some very good work, its such a shame that they are supporting and endless cycle of abuse.

Rescues who cannot provide or care for their animals properly due to overstocking or unrealistic aims. Rescues who breed on the side, or breed and sell animals to support their income.

I could rant all day about the 'faux' rescues I have come across.

Rips

There was a story propagated on a horse welfare facebook page not that long ago, about a nationwide cull being orchestrated for unwanted horses.

They were trying to fundraise to help SAVE all the horses, who were going to be 'rounded up' at authorised collection points, loaded into transporters, hungry injured and scared, before being brought off to centres where they would 'get a bullet' and be turned into glue... by, 'the government'.

It had hundreds or shares, comments and was being circulated by local celebrities.

It had no basis in truth... and when I pointed this out on the page, a few major inconsistencies and legal practicalities - the rescue tried to clarify their original 'story' ... but only dug a bigger hole. They couldn't disclose a source either.
Within an hour of my post, they had reportedly received notification that the magical cull had been 'shelved'.

The original post has since been deleted from their facebook page. Funny that.

However, thousands of people read that story and nothing twigged. There were people getting seriously angry about why this wasn't in the media...

nala2012

I've seen a rescue ask for a new iphone on facebook, the same rescue are constantly asking for money and seem to ship large numbers of dogs to the uk. I've no problem with dogs going to uk it's the fact the dogs are taken from pound and in uk the following week. How can they be sure they're healthy enough to travel? Same rescue i've seen on the news and the place seemed totally over crowded. I've stopped following them on facebook because the put more posts up asking for money than appealing for homes. Big thing too is i'd want the rescue to do homechecks and provide follow up care/training if needed.

ShaShaBear

nala2012 wrote: »

I've seen a rescue ask for a new iphone on facebook, the same rescue are constantly asking for money and seem to ship large numbers of dogs to the uk. I've no problem with dogs going to uk it's the fact the dogs are taken from pound and in uk the following week. How can they be sure they're healthy enough to travel? Same rescue i've seen on the news and the place seemed totally over crowded. I've stopped following them on facebook because the put more posts up asking for money than appealing for homes. Big thing too is i'd want the rescue to do homechecks and provide follow up care/training if needed.

Funny I've a very similar rescue group on Facebook. I almost never see them advertising for homes needed or fosterers, but they are constantly whinging about not having enough money. Some of their posts are very embarrassing. At one point they complained about the amount of people that walked past them while they were shaking a bucket outside a supermarket. I detest bucket shakers on principle, regardless of what they are collecting for. But I have an immense soft spot for animal welfare, and give what I can when I can. But if I don't have it, or feel I am being harrassed, I wont give it.
One person who liked the group felt guilted into donating a substantial amount of money to the group, who have twice since complained about lack of funds.

Pretzill

I have had a great experience with one rescue and bad with others. The poorer one left a msg on my phone to ask if we could rehome a pet or else he'd be pts in four hours. I didn't get the msg until the four hours had elapsed. I'm not saying I would:ve taken the animal under that emotional blackmail but I would've tried to help them find a solution. I still felt cr*p though.

boomerang

Big one for me - are they firefighting all the time, always asking for urgent fosters? That's a sign they're taking on more than they can cope with well, and then standards suffer.

Are they running up bills at the vets and then asking for donations urgently? Another no-no. You've got to cut your cloth according to your measure. Do as much as you can afford, and don't get into debt.

How do they look after their foster homes? Do fosterers get proper support, including financial support?

A big problem is where the rescue person is operating a rescue kennels/cattery/sanctuary out of their own home, and don't have a separate income to the rescue. Some people in that situation are very genuine and upstanding, but it raises questions about how donations are being spent.

My biggest concern is always quarantine and standards of veterinary care. Do they have the support and guidance of a good vet, and are they aware of the guidelines they should be meeting?

Are they homechecking and neutering prior to adoption?

Just throwing these points out there.

boomerang

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Funny I've a very similar rescue group on Facebook. I almost never see them advertising for homes needed or fosterers, but they are constantly whinging about not having enough money.

That's one thing I think no rescue should be doing on facebook. It reflects on them so badly, it browns people off *and* it doesn't bring in more donations. What you post about your rescue on facebook should be positive. I can't stand the "one hundred likes and no offer of a donation/foster space etc." whinges.

For Paws

For as long as we, the ordinary citizens of Ireland, continue to allow animals, particularly dogs, to be treated as a disposable commodity, we will continue to have the symptoms of the problem - animal rescue centers / sanctuaries.

Unless the breeding of pet dogs is limited, and regulated with efficient enforcement, too many dogs will be produced by too many people interested only in making money.

Rescues, even the good ones, are a symptom of our failure to protect pet animals, not a solution to the problem.

Please do not buy puppies & kittens from anyone except IKC registered breeders.
Please ask your local Councillor & TD what measures they will take to protect pet animals & effectively outlaw back yard breeders.
Please report these breeders to the Gardai.

Until we limit the number of pet animals bred, we will not learn to value these animals. They are not replaceable objects & should not be viewed as such.

It is in our own hands to change this. Do we care enough ?

sillysmiles

For Paws I understand what to are saying about INC registered breeders but the result in my opinion is that there is no need to buy a dog in Ireland at the moment. The requirement for pets could easily be met at the moment by rescues (unfortunately).
Personally I just don't see the need for a pure breed dog as a pet.
Working and showing is different I think.

Knine

sillysmiles wrote: »

For Paws I understand what to are saying about INC registered breeders but the result in my opinion is that there is no need to buy a dog in Ireland at the moment. The requirement for pets could easily be met at the moment by rescues (unfortunately).
Personally I just don't see the need for a pure breed dog as a pet.
Working and showing is different I think.

Not everybody wants a pet crossbreed though. Many people particularly those with young children want to get a young puppy for their family. A puppy that they will know roughly what size, coat type, breed specific characteristics it will have when it is fully grown.

The problem in Ireland is irresponsible breeding, back yard breeders, these designer dog fads. Preventing people from breeding pure bred dogs will not stop that.

Breeders also need to be very selective where they place their dogs.

Lemlin

Please do not buy puppies & kittens from anyone except IKC registered breeders.
Please ask your local Councillor & TD what measures they will take to protect pet animals & effectively outlaw back yard breeders.
Please report these breeders to the Gardai.

I've already had this discussion before on here and DBB and I have spoken about starting a thread on it which I plan to do when I get a chance.

Being an IKC registered breeder proves nothing. Anyone can pay €100 to get a card saying they are an IKC member.

I spoke previously about a backyard breeder operating in my area. He is IKC registered and the IKC certainly aren't too interested in doing anything about it, despite the fact that he has new pups up on Donedeal every six months. They also seem to be allowing him to register them all which goes against their welfare policy. Do they even enforce it?

I find statements like the above particularly annoying because people read it and think they are getting some form of protection by buying an "IKC registered dog". Have a look at Donedeal. The majority of dogs are not from legitimate breeders yet the majority are registered.

sillysmiles

Hands up I know nothing about breeding or IKC but what is to stop a breeder registering one litter then not registering the second? On paper the bitch doesn't look like she has been in pup constantly.
Also, haven't the IKC come out and said something along the lines of while they didn't lobby for tail docking to be allowed that they are pretty much ok with it?

Not everybody wants a pet crossbreed though. Many people particularly those with young children want to get a young puppy for their family. A puppy that they will know roughly what size, coat type, breed specific characteristics it will have when it is fully grown.

But if it is just a pet, and you can estimate approx size when young pups, characteristics are largely irrelevant with proper training.
I grew up with lots of working collies, despite them all being the same breed they varied in their characteristics - even within litters.

Don't get me wrong, if someone want to get a pure breed dog as a pet fine, but IMO there are so many animals in rescues and pounds around the country that if you want a pet there is bound to be one that would suit out there already.

Lemlin

Hands up I know nothing about breeding or IKC but what is to stop a breeder registering one litter then not registering the second? On paper the bitch doesn't look like she has been in pup constantly.

Nothing.

And, to be honest, I've never heard of the IKC refusing to register a pup so I wonder do they even enforce their welfare rules. I know myself the backyard breeder operating in my area has pups up on Donedeal every six months and always advertises them as "registered". He only has one female dog and one male that he is breeding with.

I'd like to see the IKC actually do some checks on the dogs being bred and registered. As I mentioned before, a couple came to me who had bought a golden Labrador off this breeder and couldn't get the papers off him. We eventually managed to get the papers off him, with no help from the IKC I might add, but their pure bred golden Labrador looks more like a lurcher or greyhound than a Labrador to me.

Anyway, this is probably a discussion for another thread. This one is about rescues.

Knine

sillysmiles wrote: »

But if it is just a pet, and you can estimate approx size when young pups, characteristics are largely irrelevant with proper training.
I grew up with lots of working collies, despite them all being the same breed they varied in their characteristics

Characteristics are far from irrelevant. It is one of the major reasons a lot of dogs end up in the pound or rescue. Proper training will not stop my terriers trying to hunt, a collie from trying to herd or help the owner of a husky with recall if it sees something else it would prefer doing. Yes dogs vary in personality but it is not the same thing as breed trait or characteristics.

Estimating adult size of young puppies is not something everyone wants to take a chance on.

For Paws

Very good and fair points made about the unreliability of IKC membership.

I'm not an advocate of pedigree dogs rather than crossbreeds, and I was off the mark mentioning only IKC members as a recommended source of pet dogs.

What I'm trying to get across is that people should purchase pups only from breeders with a good record of animal care. It seems that the IKC need to re-consider their responsibility towards both pets & owners.

As for adopting from rescues, I'm all for it. But what I'd like to see is a gradual decrease in the need for rescues due to pet owners doing the right thing and caring properly for their pets.

sillysmiles

Knine wrote: »

Proper training will not stop my terriers trying to hunt, a collie from trying to herd or help the owner of a husky with recall if it sees something else it would prefer doing.

But proper training, where a dog has proper recall will help when a dog does any of those things. But I think it is more that the owners need training as well in how to deal with things that you dog might do!

I too would love a situation where rescues aren't required, but I think one of the ways this would happen is if people realised that to have a family pet you don't have to get a puppy and it doesn't have to be whatever the latest disney fad is. And that ultimately you could work with the right dog to be the right pet for you/your family.

Knine

sillysmiles wrote: »

But proper training, where a dog has proper recall will help when a dog does any of those things. But I think it is more that the owners need training as well in how to deal with things that you dog might do!

I too would love a situation where rescues aren't required, but I think one of the ways this would happen is if people realised that to have a family pet you don't have to get a puppy and it doesn't have to be whatever the latest disney fad is. And that ultimately you could work with the right dog to be the right pet for you/your family.

Good recall training helps a lot but certain breed traits mean good recall is not enough. My own have great recall but I am in no doubt about what would happen if they see a bunny bouncing about in a field. I certainly don't need any training.

In a situation where a family has young children I would much prefer a young puppy is brought into the house rather then an adult dog. This is particularly true if the family do not have a lot of experience with dogs.