Ireland vs Australia Build-up Thread

Howard Juneau

mfceiling wrote: »

Just changed my screensaver picture to that one of ferris/genia.

In your face wife and kids!!

?????????

And awec just after saying keep it tasteful ! !

mfceiling

Howard Juneau wrote: »

?????????

And awec just after saying keep it tasteful ! !

You haven't seen my wife and kids howard...

Swiwi.

Keith speaks to the Aussie media

KW's views on the Aussie scrum

Hurk

Thought Eddie was great on Against The Head again this week. Frankie's polarising of winning and playing rubbish rugby versus losing and and playing entertaining rugby is a bit dated. Don't think we need to put it up the jumper or kick for the corners exclusively to beat the Aussies.

awec

mfceiling wrote: »

Just changed my screensaver picture to that one of ferris/genia.

In your face wife and kids!!

It's ok, the lock screen on my tablet is Ruan Pienaar standing ready to take a kick with Ferris in the background.

There is a picture password - tap Pienaar's badge, circle the ball and stroke Fez's arm. :pac:

wittycynic

Hurk wrote: »

Thought Eddie was great on Against The Head again this week. Frankie's polarising of winning and playing rubbish rugby versus losing and and playing entertaining rugby is a bit dated. Don't think we need to put it up the jumper or kick for the corners exclusively to beat the Aussies.

I don't agree with his philosophy but there may be an argument for keeping it in the forwards. The pack is one area where we probably have superiority, do we really want to be spreading the ball against that Aussie back line too often?

former legend

wittycynic wrote: »

I don't agree with his philosophy but there may be an argument for keeping it in the forwards. The pack is one area where we probably have superiority, do we really want to be spreading the ball against that Aussie back line too often?

I'm not sure this makes sense.

Are the Aussie backline particularly renowned for their defence or their ability to effect turnovers? I wouldn't have thought so, so why not have a go at them and try a few backline moves?

We'll have the best out-half in Europe running the show, genuine pace on the wings and we'll have O'Driscoll. We'll have a seriously mobile back-row. I say we take the game to them and see what we can do.

Grinding it out will not be an option against the NZers, or England or France in the 6N, so let's try to move things forward now.

What we absolutely can't do is kick the ball down their throats, which we did see against Samoa on occasion.

.ak

former legend wrote: »

I'm not sure this makes sense.

Are the Aussie backline particularly renowned for their defence or their ability to effect turnovers? I wouldn't have thought so, so why not have a go at them and try a few backline moves?

We'll have the best out-half in Europe running the show, genuine pace on the wings and we'll have O'Driscoll. We'll have a seriously mobile back-row. I say we take the game to them and see what we can do.

Grinding it out will not be an option against the NZers, or England or France in the 6N, so let's try to move things forward now.

What we absolutely can't do is kick the ball down their throats, which we did see against Samoa on occasion.

They're not known for it, but with guys like Falou, AAC, Cummins, Kuridrani whom are all big, fast units, then you could come into problems - ball goes wide and somebody tries to skin one of them it could easily turn into a turn ball situation as it's more likely those outside backs will be over the ball in support before our players.

splashthecash

A bit out of the loop here...where is Ferris these days?

.ak

splashthecash wrote: »

A bit out of the loop here...where is Ferris these days?

Injured. Hopefully back after Christmas.

former legend

.ak wrote: »

They're not known for it, but with guys like Falou, AAC, Cummins, Kuridrani whom are all big, fast units, then you could come into problems - ball goes wide and somebody tries to skin one of them it could easily turn into a turn ball situation as it's more likely those outside backs will be over the ball in support before our players.

We'll be up against better backlines before long; if we're afraid to play rugby against this lot, what do we do when faced with Dagg, Savea and Jane? Or Halfpenny, North and Cuthbert?

We have to progress as a team, we have to play some rugby. Starting now.

(And it will be a dark day when I agree with Frankie Sheahan on anything)

.ak

former legend wrote: »

We'll be up against better backlines before long; if we're afraid to play rugby against this lot, what do we do when faced with Dagg, Savea and Jane? Or Halfpenny, North and Cuthbert?

We have to progress as a team, we have to play some rugby. Starting now.

(And it will be a dark day when I agree with Frankie Sheahan on anything)

Yeah, true, but playing rugby doesn't always mean throwing the ball around. Some of Schmidt's biggest wins were completely orientated around the pack. Infact, if anything, Schmidt's success was completely built around a pack that teams couldn't live with. There's nothing wrong with keeping the ball tight - it can still make for great game.

I reckon we won't see much lateral play until we've put some hurt onto them upfront. Let's see how Hooper and Mowen fare with SOB, Best and POM putting the squeeze on them in the tight, let Heaslip and Healy run their legs out a bit, and then we'll look at throwing the ball around - but the latter part might never happen if their pack goes toe to toe with us all day.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

We're not going to go out against Australia and start flaking the ball around from the get go. Schmidt will keep it fairly tight for the first forty and let our big ball carriers rip into the soft underbelly of this Australian side. I think if we do that and get a bit of a lead up they'll panic and we can finish them off with a bit of expansive play

former legend

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, true, but playing rugby doesn't always mean throwing the ball around. Some of Schmidt's biggest wins were completely orientated around the pack. Infact, if anything, Schmidt's success was completely built around a pack that teams couldn't live with. There's nothing wrong with keeping the ball tight - it can still make for great game.

Yeah, totally. I know there were repeated mod warnings yesterday about harking back to the Kidney era, but one of our major problems was that, on the pitch, if plan A didn't work, plan B was to give plan A another lash. We have to start playing (cliché alert) heads-up rugby and (again) playing what's in front of us.

So I don't expect the lads to go all Harlem Globetrotters on it this weekend but if we're getting decent supply of ball from the forwards, I'd like to see us use it.

Also, with guys like Mowen and Hooper in the Aussie pack, keeping it tight and going for pick-and-drive is asking for turnovers. Kicking for the corners might not pay off given that the Aussie lineout should be functioning well with Moore and Horwill in charge.

.ak

Yeah - for the record we have no issue with people discussing Kidney, we're not here to censor people out of the history books, just nipping some of the repetitive stuff in the bud before it goes any further.

Really excited for the game now. I suppose because the ABs is still probably a bridge too far this is really the big game where it's almost 50/50 going into. Should be a cracker if our pack turns up.

Anyone want to guess the Oz line up? Is there any injuries from Italy?

jamiedav2011

Reckon we'll see a good bit of mauling this week, some great success against Samoa and OZ are susceptible too, albeit a little less so.

Team basically picks itself bar second row.
My team would be
Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Mike Mac, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, MCF (Earls fitness pending), Marshall, BOD, Bowe, RK
McGrath, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Toner, Locky, Reddan, Jackson, Kearney/MCF

toomevara

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

We're not going to go out against Australia and start flaking the ball around from the get go.

I should bloody well hope not, unless we're feeling particularly charitable towards the aussies in the run up to christmas! What do we know about these guys? Superb, potentially lethal backline given the chance, rubbish set-piece, technically weak 8..so when I read people urging Ireland to go out and feck the ball around I weep into me porridge and wonder what goes on in fans' heads sometimes.

We need a priceless big 3 SH scalp badly this autumn. A down on its luck aussie team with a scrum that wouldnt pull the skin off custard presents us with our best chance. Kick them out of it, up the jumper stuff, scrum, scrum and scrum again, frustrate the bejesus out of them and DO NOT start 'playing rugby' whatever the feck that means, (usually fecking the ball about with gay abandon these days, when I want to see that I'll watch RL thanks). I'll glady take an attritional, gritty 3-0 win thanks and so will Schmidt.

former legend

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Team basically picks itself bar second row.
My team would be
Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Mike Mac, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, MCF (Earls fitness pending), Marshall, BOD, Bowe, RK
McGrath, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Toner, Locky, Reddan, Jackson, Kearney/MCF

Earls is 100% not playing this week. The question mark is over Bowe.

Marshall would be an interesting call. Joe was very clear in that Jackson's inexperience was a big factor in D'Arcy's selection so now that Sexton is back, who knows? D'arcy played very well against Samoa so it's up in the air.

Valentine1

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

We're not going to go out against Australia and start flaking the ball around from the get go. Schmidt will keep it fairly tight for the first forty and let our big ball carriers rip into the soft underbelly of this Australian side. I think if we do that and get a bit of a lead up they'll panic and we can finish them off with a bit of expansive play

Would be lovely to see but I think its a little unlikely and will only happen if the team plays an absolute stormer right from the get go.

My own feeling is that coming into the last 20 it will be very close, and could go either way with which ever team can dig in and win the physical contest in the last quarter will win the game. There is a reasonable chance that could be Ireland.

wittycynic

former legend wrote: »

Earls is 100% not playing this week. The question mark is over Bowe.

Marshall would be an interesting call. Joe was very clear in that Jackson's inexperience was a big factor in D'Arcy's selection so now that Sexton is back, who knows? D'arcy played very well against Samoa so it's up in the air.

D'arcy had some brilliant moments but his play was also marred by some daft individual errors. All in all I'd say his contribution was average enough. If we are to have a realistic chance of beating the aussies we need men in our backline with the craft to beat men one on one and the pace to make good yards once they've broken.

D'arcy doesn't really have those abilities anymore at international level, whereas Marshall stands a much better chance of making some incisive runs. With Earls missing and Bowe doubtful, we need as much incision as we can get.

former legend

toomevara wrote: »

I should bloody well hope not, unless we're feeling particularly charitable towards the aussies in the run up to christmas! What do we know about these guys? Superb, potentially lethal backline given the chance, rubbish set-piece, technically weak 8..so when I read people urging Ireland to go out and feck the ball around I weep into me porridge and wonder what goes on in fans' heads sometimes.

Where did you read that?

toomevara wrote: »

We need a priceless big 3 SH scalp badly this autumn. A down on its luck aussie team with a scrum that wouldnt pull the skin off custard presents us with our best chance. Kick them out of it, up the jumper stuff, scrum, scrum and scrum again, frustrate the bejesus out of them and DO NOT start 'playing rugby' whatever the feck that means, (usually fecking the ball about with gay abandon these days, when I want to see that I'll watch RL thanks). I'll glady take an attritional, gritty 3-0 win thanks and so will Schmidt.

This bit makes me sad, and a bit confused to be honest. I assume by "kick them out of it", you mean kick the ball into the corners or take every 3-point opportunity, rather than kick the Australian players... but should we not aspire to more than that? We have some top-quality players, I'd like to see them used.

The scrum, scrum and scrum again tactic is a bit odd when it's not at all clear how well our TH has adapted to the new rules (early indications are mixed at best).

Playing a very limited gameplan might be OK against the Aussies but we'll get absolutely hosed by the Kiwis if we try it (despite their scrum difficulties against France). We have to start moving on.

.ak

I dunno FL - I think you're confusing playing a tight game as being 'limited'. It's horses for courses - the difference between Schmidt and Kidney is the latter didn't know what horse to use on what course.

Buer

For all the talk about the Australian scrum being pathetic and weak and something we should attack etc. we never expose their scrum. It's the same comments every time we face them and an expectation that we'll destroy them there. We never do.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Buer wrote: »

For all the talk about the Australian scrum being pathetic and weak and something we should attack etc. we never expose their scrum. It's the same comments every time we face them and an expectation that we'll destroy them there. We never do.

We haven't played them since 2011 and in the WC I seem to remember us giving their scrum a right going over

And the 2011 World Cup was really the first time the Australian Scrum appeared as a real weakness, which it undoubtedly is

Their scrum has regressed even more since then, as have some of their frontrow players, most notably Stephen Moore

ssaye2

http://inpho.ie/assignment/Australia-Wallabies-Training-Monday/3kpXm4heDaKbvtCOwkoCtQ..a?ts=7kostURlcWe6BQRQRp72RA..a

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1311354/

The Pheasant2

Just heard on the radio - Bowe confirmed for Saturday

former legend

.ak wrote: »

I dunno FL - I think you're confusing playing a tight game as being 'limited'. It's horses for courses - the difference between Schmidt and Kidney is the latter didn't know what horse to use on what course.

No, I don't think so (but then I would say that...), and I agree with you that they're not the same thing.

A 'tight' game is fine by me in the sense of playing the percentages and going for the option which is least likely to lead to a turnover. We absolutely want to try and keep as much possession as we can because guys like Cooper, Folau and AAC are going to shred us if they get enough ball.

But that does not mean we should be doomed to 80 minutes of pick-go-ruck-recycle-pick-go-ruck-recycle-kick, the sort of 'up the jumper' game advocated by toomevara above. Am I the only one who has seen Hooper play? He'll savage us at the breakdown if he's given half a sniff. I think the weakness of the Aussie pack in general is being way overblown.

As a watching fan, I'll be very disappointed if we don't see some effort at creativity. It would be criminal to let a Murray-Sexton-O'Driscoll axis go to waste.

Buer

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

We haven't played them since 2011 and in the WC I seem to remember us giving their scrum a right going over

And the 2011 World Cup was really the first time the Australian Scrum appeared as a real weakness, which it undoubtedly is

It's not the first time, really. It has been a noted weakness for many years. It's always been seen as their achilles heel with one or two short periods of parity. Remember the RWC in 2007, for example? It was torn asunder.

In relation to the 2011 RWC, we got the rub of the green massively with the couple scrum calls that went our way. We were driven back for the opening score of the game in the scrum, conceding a penalty under our own posts. We certainly weren't significantly better. Healy got away with murder.

bilston

former legend wrote: »

Earls is 100% not playing this week. The question mark is over Bowe.

Marshall would be an interesting call. Joe was very clear in that Jackson's inexperience was a big factor in D'Arcy's selection so now that Sexton is back, who knows? D'arcy played very well against Samoa so it's up in the air.

I think he'll pick D'Arcy.

In a funny way he may be more likely to throw Marshall in against NZ as he probably sees Australia as a good chance of a major scalp.

Clearlier

First thought is that many seem to have taken too much hope out of the Samoan game. They were short several first choice players and we only cut loose after the double concussion. I'd have taken Leinster, Munster and Ulster to beat that Samoan team (maybe Connacht too but I haven't seen them play yet this year). Our defence was still exposed several times. We're a work in progress and even against a weak Aussie team we'll be doing very, very well to beat them. If I were putting money on the game it would be on the Aussies. We haven't got the same ability as England to starve them of possession and there aren't many teams better at using the ball than the Wallabies.

stephen_n wrote: »

I have an aversion to kicking the ball for the sake of it, kicking accurately and with purpose is hugely different than just kicking to put the ball up the field a bit. We were kicking the ball a lot on Saturday with neither a lot of height to get chasers underneath it, or with any huge accuracy to get in behind Samoa, although that did seem to be the intent, just not always executed well and was therefore wasteful. Joe seems to think so too apparently.

Box kicks looked aimless but the Samoans were deliberately and cynically blocking chasers (they were moving to get into the way of any chasers).

Howard Juneau wrote: »

Surely with Bowe & Earls out, Trimble & Luke have to be the obvious choices to step in. Trimble would be my choice, good player, and his defensive play could be very important against the Aussies

Has Trimble a chance of being selected by Joe given his passing skill set? A bit like Horgan was never going to be selected by Kidney to play for Ireland.

.ak wrote: »

{Ferris) Injured. Hopefully back after Christmas.

IIRC he was given a contract to Christmas to see if he could get over his injury. I dearly hope that he can recover as at his peak I think that he was arguably the best blindside in the world but I fear the announcement of his retirement shortly.

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Reckon we'll see a good bit of mauling this week, some great success against Samoa and OZ are susceptible too, albeit a little less so.

Team basically picks itself bar second row.
My team would be
Healy, Best, Ross, POC, Mike Mac, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Sexton, MCF (Earls fitness pending), Marshall, BOD, Bowe, RK
McGrath, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Toner, Locky, Reddan, Jackson, Kearney/MCF

Unless Best has been doing some CBT (consciously or otherwise) I think that we need Toner in there. The extra couple of inches in height add in a margin for error that's very valuable.

wittycynic wrote: »

D'arcy had some brilliant moments but his play was also marred by some daft individual errors. All in all I'd say his contribution was average enough. If we are to have a realistic chance of beating the aussies we need men in our backline with the craft to beat men one on one and the pace to make good yards once they've broken.

D'arcy doesn't really have those abilities anymore at international level, whereas Marshall stands a much better chance of making some incisive runs. With Earls missing and Bowe doubtful, we need as much incision as we can get.

I see a lot of talk about Marshall but I wonder if he isn't being overrated based largely on a couple of breaks against an average Scottish team? I've seen nobody suggest that D'arcy won't be around for the next world cup. After a dip in and around the last world cup he has come back really strong. He certainly did make a couple of daft errors against Samoa (catching the kick off being the most obvious one) but daft ones are easily fixed. Errors owing to a lack of ability (skill or physical) are very much harder to solve and I don't really see those in him at the moment. I think it's great that there's some competition for the jersey but I'd ignore calls for Marshall to get the jersey because he's the future. All that said I'd not be concerned about either getting the position based on what I have seen and I think that Marshall could do with a couple of opportunities to develop.

19543261

awec wrote: »

One post deleted, just a reminder to keep things tasteful.

:eek:....

Aye, aye... :cool:

ConFurioso

Hurk wrote: »

Thought Eddie was great on Against The Head again this week. Frankie's polarising of winning and playing rubbish rugby versus losing and and playing entertaining rugby is a bit dated. Don't think we need to put it up the jumper or kick for the corners exclusively to beat the Aussies.

Definitely, it's a pleasure listening to him talk about the game.

I especially loved him talking about SOB's try, and how when he got the ball, "he made hay". For all the talk about Schmidt's refreshing candor in front of the media, I do sometimes miss those Eddieisms.

Snickers Man

Anyone know who the referee will be for this one? Can't seem to find it online

Kanrith

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Just heard on the radio - Bowe confirmed for Saturday

Great news, we were looking light on wingers.

shuffol

Buer wrote: »

It's not the first time, really. It has been a noted weakness for many years. It's always been seen as their achilles heel with one or two short periods of parity. Remember the RWC in 2007, for example? It was torn asunder.

In relation to the 2011 RWC, we got the rub of the green massively with the couple scrum calls that went our way. We were driven back for the opening score of the game in the scrum, conceding a penalty under our own posts. We certainly weren't significantly better. Healy got away with murder.

Think every one of our scores in 2011 came from scrum penalties. Think the previous time we played them was Healy's debut in 2009 and the Aus scrum was quite highly rated then.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

so the team more or less picks itself so BAR 12 and 5

danthefan

Buer wrote: »

It's not the first time, really. It has been a noted weakness for many years. It's always been seen as their achilles heel with one or two short periods of parity. Remember the RWC in 2007, for example? It was torn asunder.

In relation to the 2011 RWC, we got the rub of the green massively with the couple scrum calls that went our way. We were driven back for the opening score of the game in the scrum, conceding a penalty under our own posts. We certainly weren't significantly better. Healy got away with murder.

They absolutely murdered us in the scrums in 2009 in the AIs, it was carnage.

shuffol wrote: »

Think every one of our scores in 2011 came from scrum penalties. Think the previous time we played them was Healy's debut in 2009 and the Aus scrum was quite highly rated then.

Two or three did, wasn't all of them for sure. Sexton scored a drop goal for one.

former legend

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Just heard on the radio - Bowe confirmed for Saturday

Which station? Haven't seen/heard it anywhere else.

Surprised that he was a doubt yesterday evening but confirmed so quickly.

ssaye2

Trained fine

http://www.sportsfile.com/id/809924/

Kanrith

I am finding a few articles where it is saying BOD's last match could be against New Zealand, but I was sure he said on the late late show that he was aiming to win the six nations as well.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Kanrith wrote: »

I am finding a few articles where it is saying BOD's last match could be against New Zealand, but I was sure he said on the late late show that he was aiming to win the six nations as well.

Links?

Teferi

Are you sure you're just not reading it incorrectly? They may be pointing out that it is Bod's last ever game against New Zealand (i.e last chance saloon to get that elusive win) but not his last game ever.

Buer

shuffol wrote: »

Think every one of our scores in 2011 came from scrum penalties. Think the previous time we played them was Healy's debut in 2009 and the Aus scrum was quite highly rated then.

They didn't. Two of our penalties came from the scrum. There was a drop goal (advantage for a ruck offence) and the other two were for ruck offences. The decisive penalty was for Slipper going to ground but the replay clearly showed Healy dragging him down sharply with his bind. We were very fortunate. We actually conceded a few penalties at the scrum in the match they were just less influential.

The Aussie scrum was no more than adequate in 2009. It was one of the periods when they were solid and they were well on top of us in that game.

Neil3030

Last ever match against New Zealand, surely?

ssaye2

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/tommy-bowe-fit-1171848-Nov2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

stephen_n

Why is it when ever expansive rugby is mentioned, people always assume that means flinging the ball around the place. Leinster played expansive rugby under Joe but never ever flung the ball around, space is earned by the forwards and exploited by the backs, that's EXPANSIVE RUGBY!

Spud83

Kanrith wrote: »

I am finding a few articles where it is saying BOD's last match could be against New Zealand, but I was sure he said on the late late show that he was aiming to win the six nations as well.

Are you sure people aren't saying is that its his last crack at New Zealand as in its the last time he will have a chance to beat them, rather than its his last game ever.

Timothy Bryce

Snickers Man wrote: »

Anyone know who the referee will be for this one? Can't seem to find it online

Chris Pollock (BNZ)?

Buer

danthefan wrote: »

They absolutely murdered us in the scrums in 2009 in the AIs, it was carnage.

That's hyperbole, Dan. They got a big shove on in the first couple of scrums and then it settled down. They didn't gain much through their scrum as the game wore on and it was a move off a solid scrum in their 22 that earned us the draw. They were certainly on top but there was no murder/carnage; they only scored one penalty off it. Also keep in mind that was Hayes, who was never much at the scrum and just coming back from a 5 week suspension, and Healy, who was a kid making his debut and far from a strong scrummager at the time. If they couldn't win that battle, they'd no business being a test front five.

The Aussie scrum was solid at that time but it has long been an area of concern for them. They have never consistently managed to get it right before it has reverted to being a real problem area for them again. They've gone through a ridiculous number of caps in their front row over the past 6 or 7 years trying to find the right personnel.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Buer wrote: »

That's hyperbole, Dan. They got a big shove on in the first couple of scrums and then it settled down. They didn't gain much through their scrum as the game wore on and it was a move off a solid scrum in their 22 that earned us the draw. They were certainly on top but there was no murder/carnage; they only scored one penalty off it. Also keep in mind that was Hayes, who was never much at the scrum and just coming back from a 5 week suspension, and Healy, who was a kid making his debut and far from a strong scrummager at the time. If they couldn't win that battle, they'd no business being a test front five.

The Aussie scrum was solid at that time but it has long been an area of concern for them. They have never consistently managed to get it right before it has reverted to being a real problem area for them again. They've gone through a ridiculous number of caps in their front row over the past 6 or 7 years trying to find the right personnel.

And now they seem to have settled for the least worst option!