Parents to vote on whether they want their schools to have a uniform and what type

Legs.Eleven

Shenshen wrote: »

I never understood the deal about school uniforms - I grew up in a country that hasn't had them in living memory. Now, while I openly admit to approaching 40 much quicker than I would like, I cannot for the life of me remember a single instance when someone was picked on for what they wore.

I remember being picked on for being fat, I remember the kids who wore glasses geeting picked on, and I remember in my teenage years that kids with noticable BO got picked on quite a bit. I even remember my rucksack being cut to shreds by a bully once because it had Bambi on it and they felt it was too cute for me to own.
But clothes? No ...

And why would you? Cut your kids some slack, they are far more creative in finding things to discriminate about, they don't need to rely on clothing.

And if they are so boring as to bully people because of clothes, surely they'll be quite happy to bully the poor kid who is wearing the crappy uniform they've already grown out of and which they got as a hand-me-down from an older sibling. As if that wouldn't show.

I was picked on a few times over this. Comments were made that I didn't have a huge selection of clothes (weekends and discos). Uniforms took the heat off during school time and I know it would've been more stress trying to find clothes so I blended in. PE day was bad enough.


Everyone's uniforms were falling apart as they were crappy quality and didn't last, so there were no problems with bullying over that.

byhookorbycrook

Doris300 wrote: »

Yes people need identities and to be comfortable in what they like not placed in black and white like a sheep

Have you ever taken 70 junior infants to the zoo with only two teachers?!?

Mike 1972

IvaBigWun wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parents-to-vote-on-whether-they-want-school-uniforms-scrapped-29744176.html

I think this will lead to kids been pressurised to wear certain designer brands

My primary school had no uniform and this was never an issue in fact we were barely aware of the existance of such things.

Maybe a "no uniform on a Friday" rule would suffice

Surely that would amount to the worst of both worlds ?

dockleaf

Honestly don't know how you did that byhookorbycrook! Had 3 children at the zoo on Sunday and they were hard enough to keep together! My children have school uniforms, I think they're great- no issue with getting an outfit together in the morning and with two girls that could be difficult. I had a school uniform myself at school, I went to an all girls school and I think there would have been definite comments/bullying/cliques forming without uniforms just on the clothes worn. Of course that happens anyway, but it's one less thing to deal with.

I went to a non-uniform primary school but it was a country school and it was the 70s so no-one had any money anyway. Different times, no-one particularly cared about clothes but then if some people did have nice clothes it might have been an issue.

Mike 1972

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Shame on them for thinking one uniform to use for the week is more prudent than five changes of clothes for the week.

You mean those five changes of clothes that kids jump into as soon as they get in the door from school ?

(Uniform + five changes of clothes) > five changes of clothes

Plates wrote: »

Almost as bad as people with 5 kids giving out about how expensive it is to have 5 kids - like they had no choice.

Because the act of procreation confers two decades of immunity to any change in ones financial circumstances ?

byhookorbycrook

Me neither, Dockleaf and the two of us were fresh out of college and green as a stick. I still wake up counting 70 children and only finding 20 years later.

Moonbeam

I would like to be able ot buy the crest for cheap and sew it on.
my daughters uniform was about 50 euro incl tracksuit so not bad but the cardigan feels awful.

Mike 1972

IvaBigWun wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/parents-to-vote-on-whether-they-want-school-uniforms-scrapped-29744176.html

I think this will lead to kids been pressurised to wear certain designer brands

My primary school had no uniform and this was never an issue in fact we were barely aware of the existance of such things.

Maybe a "no uniform on a Friday" rule would suffice

Surely that would amount to the worst of both worlds ?

Gatling

Cant wait to see all the treads on here about kids been sent home for wearing inappropriate clothing if uniforms get scrapped ,

In saying that we bought a uniform and tracksuit in August for the year for 90e for uniform and tracksuit and 15e on three iron on patches for our 4yo, for the same money I recently picked up 4 branded hoodies and 2 pairs of bottoms for 87e shipped from the UK that just isn't right paying 90+ euro for one uniform set for a 4 year old

evolving_doors

Plates wrote: »

Another conspiracy theorist. I feel a march coming on. Think we need to advise the marchers on the correct attire. No suits, uniforms, logos or designer brands allowed. The "poor mouth" image must be maintained at all costs. Otherwise how can we justify our grudges against politicians, bankers and de establishment?

Naa I'm just a cynic when it comes to Ruari Quinn and his fabulous reforms...School bloody uniforms..is that the best he can do? Well be like Scandavia in no time folks..

Nothing will come from this...nothing will change..schools will do as they've always done in consultation with parents (as they've always done with the parents council). Ruari Quinn has no remit in telling schools what to do , he can only 'recommend'.

This is a non story really..same old arguments hashed out since the 80's when we debated it in 1st year english..

...now... can we get back to debating what happened in Saipan...if we talk about it enough we can figure it out...Roy wasn't in any rush to put on the uniform either!

languagenerd

I don't know what I think about uniforms anymore. I never minded having to wear one in principle but I hated how unbelievably strict my school was about it. You had to have the expensive school jacket/fleece and school scarf (and got a demerit if you were caught coming in the door with any other coat or scarf) but you weren't allowed wear them inside a classroom, even if it was freezing. You had to have the specific tracksuit but weren't allowed wear it coming into school (that was another demerit); even if PE was your first class, you had to come in in uniform and immediately get changed. They had rules on shoes, socks, jewellery, make-up... even had teachers posted inside the doors to check your uniform as you walked in. I just never understood what they were trying to achieve. It just annoyed people and made them more hostile and more determined to rebel. Slightly longer earrings or purple nail-paint were never going to affect our education!

Most of the arguments for uniforms don't really hold up when you consider that in most other countries, there are no uniforms and education still works fine. I think once the novelty wore off, it'd be no big deal. After all, kids don't wear uniforms at home, or out shopping, or a youth clubs...

rorrissey

As a 6th year, I don't really understand the whole "everyone is equal in uniform. Students bully each other if they don't wear brand names" argument. Never in my years of schooling have I witnessed someone being mocked over their lack of designer clothes. The only scenario I can imagine where someone would be mocked due to their choice of apparel would probably be if they were dressed completely ridiculously, ie: Boy George circa Karma Chameleon.
Maybe primary school children would bully each other about these things, but I can't imagine the older students being so petty.

The uniform is an inconvenience to me and to my parents. It's expensive, it needs to be washed frequently, it's too warm in the summer, too cold in winter (especially when the heating is turned off due to budget cuts) and downright uncomfortable. Clothing is part of one's personal identity (cliché), and I think it's important for young people to be able to express themselves.

Compared to other European countries, a majority of the Irish don't know how to dress appropriately (eg: jeans that are too long, ripping and wet from puddles). Maybe this can be linked to the uniform policies ? I spent time in a French school when I was in transition year. They didn't have any uniforms, but they were required to dress smartly. i.e: No tracksuits and no sluts. This system worked pretty well and nobody was being bullied.

It's true that on no uniform days, there are always those who get overly dressed up and wear their best clothes in order to show off, but generally that is just a minority. That probably wouldn't happen if uniforms were abolished because it would be normal to wear your own clothes.

The only pro I can see is that on outings, it is easier for teacher's to keep an eye on students because they are easily identifiable.

Maybe my opinion is biased because I have to wear the ugly thing 5 days a week. I can't wait to burn it in June.

clairefontaine

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Have you ever taken 70 junior infants to the zoo with only two teachers?!?

American public schools manage to do it, try 90 five year olds and not lose anyone.

Ask parents for volunteers to go on the trips too.

FameHungry

Coming from someone who is in 5th year I would actually not like that at all. They got rid of non-uniform days because everyone was complaining about not having anything to wear.
But, they should stop making us buy uniforms with the logos. We also have to buy the school P.E uniform which is way too expensive. And then the bastards don't even put on the heating and the uniforms don't keep you warm at all.

miss no stars

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Have you ever taken 70 junior infants to the zoo with only two teachers?!?

Better question - why were there only 2 teachers with 70 junior infants?!?

Parents. Make use of them on school tours like that. The primary schools my brother and I went to did that for tours like a zoo trip. Worked fine. Could split the big group into smaller manageable groups. Done.

spurious

All with Garda clearance.

miss no stars

spurious wrote: »

All with Garda clearance.

Do they need it if they were paired with a teacher? 3 parents per class, leaves 4 adults to watch 35 kids. Still better than 2 adults watching 70 kids.

What would be wrong with the school asking for volunteers to help with school events with the understanding that they'd be vetted and might be asked to help with events for classes that their kids aren't in, due to limits on the number of people who can be vetted each year?

IrishEyes19

Speaking as a secondary school teacher, I agree uniforms should be way cheaper. its a joke what they cost. However I do think there should be a uniform. Personally as a teacher its really important to know a student from someone who is not. The reason for this is from 4th year upwards, girls look a lot older these days, they are permitted to wear reasonable make up and on non uniform todays, you would find yourself often comtemplating if you were looking at a 6th year student or a sub teacher. its not a control issue, it really does serve a purpose and as basic as it sounds, if we do not have a standard uniform, clothes wars will start in schools with who has the better stuff, boundaries will be crossed on what you can and cant wear.

But my main issue is recognition, I work in a city school where students are allowed down town on the break. If I nip down to the shops if I've no class, its very easy to spot who has been mitching or if there is commotion outside the classroom with other schools on the break. Im just saying we need to lower the costs, but a uniform is practical

zcorpian88

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

But my main issue is recognition, I work in a city school where students are allowed down town on the break. If I nip down to the shops if I've no class, its very easy to spot who has been mitching or if there is commotion outside the classroom with other schools on the break. Im just saying we need to lower the costs, but a uniform is practical

True, it's a good way to tag a mitcher. In my old secondary school there was loads of mitchers, the school was notorious for it, most got away with it as the school was run pretty badly, 6 years after I left school I was working in an office in the same town, I look out the window and see three uniformed young lads from the same school walking by the window at 2:30 in the afternoon, some things never change.

Get rid of the uniforms. Kids will adopt their own form of uniforms, as happens in 3rd Level education. My college days in UCD I was surrounded be people wearing their own form of uniform.

Let the kids express themselves through their clothing choice. Lord knows it won't matter to them in later life any more than having to wear a uniform has any impact on our generation's life

zcorpian88

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Get rid of the uniforms. Kids will adopt their own form of uniforms, as happens in 3rd Level education. My college days in UCD I was surrounded be people wearing their own form of uniform.

Let the kids express themselves through their clothing choice. Lord knows it won't matter to them in later life any more than having to wear a uniform has any impact on our generation's life

A lot of kids don't have a choice of what to wear since it's their parents paying for their clothes, given the current climate, parents are tightening their belts and shopping in cheaper places, it'll turn into a "clothing war" on the school yard, corridors, in town on lunch breaks etc.. Kids will use any excuse to pick on another kid because they aren't wearing the latest trend of whatever.

Perfect example I will use was a time I was in school about 6 or 7 years ago (I mentioned this in an earlier post) an instance where the school was having a GAA jersey day and most of the school arrived wearing Kilkenny jerseys, a second year female student showed up wearing a cheaper Penneys Kilkenny jersey without the O' Neills logo and Avanmore written across the chest, and half the school verbally abused her, never seen anything like it, it was pretty bad. Felt awful for her.

Hated wearing a uniform myself, would have loved to wear jeans and band t-shirts to school but everyone keeping up with the Jones's ruins it! So parents have to fork out for uniforms.

zcorpian88

zcorpian88 wrote: »

Kids will use any excuse to pick on another kid because they aren't wearing the latest trend of whatever.

Exactly, kids will use any excuse, they don't need different clothes to do it.

Feathers

If kids wearing their own clothes will be slagged for being poor, would they not sbe slagged for that anyway? Presumably these kids also don't have the latest video game/album/runners during PE/money to go to the cinema or on a school trip, etc., etc.

People weren't slagged for being less well-off in my school (if anything, kids were slagged for 'being posh'), but everyone knew which kids were less well-off. As someone else mentioned, a uniform wasn't any great leveller.

zcorpian88

Feathers wrote: »

If kids wearing their own clothes will be slagged for being poor, would they not sbe slagged for that anyway? Presumably these kids also don't have the latest video game/album/runners during PE/money to go to the cinema or on a school trip, etc., etc.

People weren't slagged for being less well-off in my school (if anything, kids were slagged for 'being posh'), but everyone knew which kids were less well-off. As someone else mentioned, a uniform wasn't any great leveller.

You could always hide the fact that you haven't got the latest video game a lot of kids wouldn't see a new video game until they've saved up for weeks in order to buy them or they wait for Christmas/birthdays or they could just rent them, as for runners for PE that wouldn't matter as it's only the one class and wouldn't be wearing them all day, albums can always be downloaded, and cinema visits and school trips isn't an every week sort of a thing, well at least in my head it isn't. Clothes are a thing you would be expected to be consistent with everyday

All schools aren't the same, back when I was in secondary school (2002-2007) there wasn't really any posh students, my school was a vocational school (a bloody kip might I add) everyone was from working class families, most were well off enough to have fairly decent clothes but weren't from the nicer parts of town but still had the money to go knacker drinking at the weekend and got the runners, official sports jerseys, the latest mobile phone etc.

In my school most kids were pricks and would single out any vulnerable person and crucify them verbally and physically because you didn't conform to their ways and were different in any way, or dress the same way, if you didn't listen to the same shyte music, if you didn't go to those wimpy teenage discos, if you didn't treat the school staff like dirt and so on.

Bringing normal clothes into schools sounds brilliant but you need to look at the bigger picture and think about how it'll affect the kid say if you're not flushed with money. With clothes you would be made feel like you have to be consistent in your appearance everyday and its a lot of pressure on a young person, they will in turn put pressure on parents to buy this and that. Why? Because some dickhead in their class will make them feel like a peasant if they don't wear certain stuff.

I hated putting a uniform on everyday and thought wearing normal clothes would be a great idea before I started reading the thread but really it'll just give students another reason to bully less fortunate kids, lots of suicides going on in schools between regular bullying, and bullying using technology like phones, Facebook, that AskFm yoke, adding no uniforms in schools only adds to the list for knobheads to pick on classmates.

Feathers

zcorpian88 wrote: »

In my school most kids were pricks and would single out any vulnerable person and crucify them verbally and physically because you didn't conform to their ways and were different in any way, or dress the same way, if you didn't listen to the same shyte music, if you didn't go to those wimpy teenage discos, if you didn't treat the school staff like dirt and so on.

This is the point — kids that want to bully others they perceive to be vulnerable will do this regardless. Uniforms or lack of them won't cause or prevent this.

It's like remedial teachers — When I was at school, they stopped calling people getting what is now 'learning support' the remedial class & started calling it the special class. Why did they do this? Because kids were getting slagged for being in the remedial class. Now at 8–10, none of the kids knew what the word 'remedial' meant, but they knew the kids in that class needed extra help. Fast-forward another few years & kids were getting slagged for being in the special class. They should've focused their efforts on stopping the kids getting bullied rather than on changing the name, which had no effect.

It's similar with uniforms: with or without them, kids also have jackets, shoes, bags, haircuts, phones — lots of things that cost money & that they can be slagged over if theirs are worse. Not to mention their clothes outside of school.

If you want to stop them being bullied for not having enough money, tackle the bullying. Saying the parents aren't that well-off, so let's handle that by giving them an extra expense seems bizarre. At least, the uniform should be clothes that the kids can re-use outside of school.

zcorpian88

Feathers wrote: »

This is the point — kids that want to bully others they perceive to be vulnerable will do this regardless. Uniforms or lack of them won't cause or prevent this.

It's like remedial teachers — When I was at school, they stopped calling people getting what is now 'learning support' the remedial class & started calling it the special class. Why did they do this? Because kids were getting slagged for being in the remedial class. Now at 8–10, none of the kids knew what the word 'remedial' meant, but they knew the kids in that class needed extra help. Fast-forward another few years & kids were getting slagged for being in the special class. They should've focused their efforts on stopping the kids getting bullied rather than on changing the name, which had no effect.

It's similar with uniforms: with or without them, kids also have jackets, shoes, bags, haircuts, phones — lots of things that cost money & that they can be slagged over if theirs are worse. Not to mention their clothes outside of school.

If you want to stop them being bullied for not having enough money, tackle the bullying. Saying the parents aren't that well-off, so let's handle that by giving them an extra expense seems bizarre. At least, the uniform should be clothes that the kids can re-use outside of school.

Good point Feathers, tackling bullying is always a touchy subject though and never gets resolved properly, teachers often complain of having their hands tied.

A uniform that can be worn outside school sounds odd to me too, I can imagine if they did that in my day that wouldn't have worked, the mother would have been in my ear, "don't mess up those clothes you need them for school!" as soon as I got back from school you weren't let outside the door until the uniform was neatly folded and put away. Doesn't matter how old you were, it was mucky outside and that was that.

IvaBigWun

Did anyone else sitting the Leaving Cert not wear their uniforms sitting the exams? It seemed to be the thing to do in my school

Adamantium

Nevermind the students for a second; our teachers dressed up in the style of Imperial Officers of the Empire.







It was Leitrim.

clairefontaine

^ I have to say I've seen some questionable outfits on teachers.

The senior infants teacher would wear skin tight pants and stiletto boots. It wasn't bad enough to complain, but it was on the WTF scale of things alright.

zcorpian88

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Did anyone else sitting the Leaving Cert not wear their uniforms sitting the exams? It seemed to be the thing to do in my school

Didn't have to wear mine for my LC in 2007, what really is the point, I say make the students feel comfortable since they are all under pressure to do well. Unless they have RTE cameras in their face and they have to make the school look good....(yawn)

Duck's hoop

The boys' default outside school uniform is grey flannel tracksuits and hoodie. White runners and socks with baseball cap optional.

I'm sure this would quickly become the 'in school' uniform.

IvaBigWun

zcorpian88 wrote: »

Didn't have to wear mine for my LC in 2007, what really is the point, I say make the students feel comfortable since they are all under pressure to do well. Unless they have RTE cameras in their face and they have to make the school look good....(yawn)

True, and its not like they can be suspended