Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

MagicIRL

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2013/Dec/Darren-Fletcher-plans-to-regain-his-spot-in-the-first-team-after-return.aspx?newsid=FE41ED53-E891-4D73-9FA5-D65F5841DA2E

titan18

MANUTD99 wrote: »

I think he is a pretty bad player. I've watched inter a few times on BT/ESPN/Setanta and he in a country where you get a lot of time on the ball he makes some dreadful passes. The intensity of the PL would be a disaster for him

Think he's excellent, but Inter use him too far forward. He'd be cheap, is good going forward and defensively. Think he's made for the PL tbh and would be excellent for us.

Ideally, I'd rather someone better but don't think those guys are available or we'd get them.

MagicMarker

To be honest, with the way Fletcher looked when he came on, I'd be happy to see him starting pretty soon.

RasTa

First time I've watched MOTD in weeks

sReq | uTeK

Did val just play a left footed through ball?????

homerjay2005

MagicMarker wrote: »

To be honest, with the way Fletcher looked when he came on, I'd be happy to see him starting pretty soon.

not sure what he can offer us though in terms of creativity.

titan18 wrote: »

Ideally, I'd rather someone better but don't think those guys are available or we'd get them.

we need world class players, not more "squad" players. while we all would love the money spent in January, i think alot of us would rather we dont waste the money just for the sake of it.

unless we get world class players in, i dont see the point in signing anybody.

titan18

homerjay2005 wrote: »

not sure what he can offer us though in terms of creativity.



we need world class players, not more "squad" players. while we all would love the money spent in January, i think alot of us would rather we dont waste the money just for the sake of it.

unless we get world class players in, i dont see the point in signing anybody.

I do, don't think the current group will get us 4th considering how Arsenal, City,Chelsea and Liverpool are performing, along with Everton and Spurs (assuming they get rid of AVB)

Guarin is a better player than some of the others mentioned we should sign e.g Herrera, Schneiderlin, and suits our team more than some others

Will I Amnt

MagicMarker wrote: »

To be honest, with the way Fletcher looked when he came on, I'd be happy to see him starting pretty soon.

I feared for him a bit tbh. Thought he would be completely shown up with the lack of match fitness but there wasn't a bother on him. Good to see and great to have another option there.

MANUTD99

titan18 wrote: »

Think he's excellent, but Inter use him too far forward. He'd be cheap, is good going forward and defensively. Think he's made for the PL tbh and would be excellent for us.

Ideally, I'd rather someone better but don't think those guys are available or we'd get them.

Maybe worth a punt if price is low. Has panic buy written all over it for me personally but couldn't do any worse than current midfield. Has a decent shot but have seen him hit a few howlers also on tv.

For some reason I have the feeling our next signing will be a calculated maneuver from Moyes and United to show we mean business but unfortunalty I don't think this will happen in Jan

Whatsisname

Welbeck scored twice, Cleverley scored, Valencia played well and used his left foot.

Ted, I'm going mad.

n32

What Fletcher can give us that our other midfielders (except carrick) are lacking is a defensive midfield mentality. He knows how to protect the back four and unlike Giggs and Jones is an actual midfielder!

homerjay2005

17 goals away from home, as opposed to 8 at Old Trafford, dropping 13 points already there.

people talk about the loss of the fear factor at Old Trafford, what do ye think is behind the poor form at home?

even picking up 5 or 6 points more from those 13 would see us in a great position all things considered and its for example the West Brom and Southampton games that have really killed us.

Rayne Wooney

If Fletch gets back to a good level soon we could go back to a proper 4-4-2 for the time being, but we'd need a top winger added to the current bunch in January.

That would mean Kagawa gone but we could maybe use him in a bid for Reus in the summer.

It all depends in the direction Moyes wants to go.

RasTa

David Moyes has demanded greater protection for Adnan Januzaj after the Manchester United manager accused referee Lee Mason of allowing Aston Villa to target the winger with “terrible” tackling at Villa Park

Good. Some poor tackling today, Mason more interested in booking lads after a little push.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10519305/Manchester-United-manager-David-Moyes-tells-referees-to-protect-Adjan-Januzaj-following-defeat-of-Aston-Villa.html

homerjay2005

n32 wrote: »

What Fletcher can give us that our other midfielders (except carrick) are lacking is a defensive midfield mentality. He knows how to protect the back four and unlike Giggs and Jones is an actual midfielder!

would you not think though that playing the likes of Jones and Fletcher in that role, is a reason why our football has been so poor for the last few years?

makes us hard to beat, but our spark in the middle is pretty poor. assuming Anderson is on his way out and Giggs retiring, it leaves us with Fletcher, Fellaini, Carrick and Cleverly in the middle.

surely Moyes will be looking at those 4 options and he will know we will need 2 more signings in there.

n32

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would you not think though that playing the likes of Jones and Fletcher in that role, is a reason why our football has been so poor for the last few years?

makes us hard to beat, but our spark in the middle is pretty poor. assuming Anderson is on his way out and Giggs retiring, it leaves us with Fletcher, Fellaini, Carrick and Cleverly in the middle.

surely Moyes will be looking at those 4 options and he will know we will need 2 more signings in there.

Ideally Carrick is there to do that job and he has a better ability to pass the ball but in a lot of games in Carricks absence we seem to have nobody shielding the back 4 and our 2 midfielders are leaving acres of space in front of the backs. Shakhtar the other night had so much space to play in midfield it was unbelieveable. In fairness to Carrick his positioning is excellent. It can go unnoticed how often he gets a foot in to break up an attack

Pro. F

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Of course players can develop better at a younger or older stage.

That might come about for Welbeck and Cleverly.

Cool, so then you can see why the fact that Wes and JOS were playing more games for United at the same age doesn't preclude Welbeck and Cleverley from being valuable squad players. Nobody has their head stuck up their arse or is insulting the memory of Wes' career to draw comparisons between those useful squad players of years past and Welbeck and Cleverley.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

But when people have to go back to a game in February of this year to tell you the last time a player had a good game it kinda tells its own story.

Their careers have stalled somewhat over past couple of seasons. Welbeck has not improved a jot since the 11/12 season. He really hasnt.

Neither of them need to improve to be effective squad players, they can both do useful jobs right now. There have been plenty of worthy United squad players who you could have described as having stalled careers at various times, not least JOS and Brown.

Welbeck played well against Swansea and Cleverley played well for the half he was on against City this season, so you don't have to go back to last February to find games where they played well. Also take into consideration that the majority of the players have been struggling all season under Moyes so far.

MANUTD99

Pro. F wrote: »

Cool, so then you can see why the fact that Wes and JOS were playing more games for United at the same age doesn't preclude Welbeck and Cleverley from being valuable squad players. Nobody has their head stuck up their arse or is insulting the memory of Wes' career to draw comparisons between those useful squad players of years past and Welbeck and Cleverley.



Neither of them need to improve to be effective squad players, they can both do useful jobs right now. There have been plenty of worthy United squad players who you could have described as having stalled careers at various times, not least JOS and Brown.

Welbeck played well against Swansea and Cleverley played well for the half he was on against City this season, so you don't have to go back to last February to find games where they played well. Also take into consideration that the majority of the players have been struggling all season under Moyes so far.

If you think Cleverley deserves a place in the squad then fair play to you. People are going on about how he knows the United way and knows what it means to wear the jersey. That may be so but he is nowhere near good enough to be playing in the middle of the field for United.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

If Fletch gets back to a good level soon we could go back to a proper 4-4-2 for the time being, but we'd need a top winger added to the current bunch in January.

That would mean Kagawa gone but we could maybe use him in a bid for Reus in the summer.

It all depends in the direction Moyes wants to go.

Fletch gives options for the 4231 also, and a 4312 or even a 4321

Vic Vinegar

MANUTD99 wrote: »

If you think Cleverley deserves a place in the squad then fair play to you. People are going on about how he knows the United way and knows what it means to wear the jersey. That may be so but he is nowhere near good enough to be playing in the middle of the field for United.

As first choice, no. As a capable backup, yes.

MANUTD99

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

As first choice, no. As a capable backup, yes.

If we are going to be challenging for the big trophies we should be having better back up than Tom Cleverley.

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

Fletch gives options for the 4231 also, and a 4312 or even a 4321

Yeah he could slot in to any of those assuming he gets back to a good level.

It's all up to Moyes and we'll see which way he's going when he gets a few more signings in.

I'd prefer a 4231 though, with Carrick and a partner similar to Fabregas or Gundogan. One of the 'all rounder' types who are very good at creating as well.

Pro. F

MANUTD99 wrote: »

If you think Cleverley deserves a place in the squad then fair play to you. People are going on about how he knows the United way and knows what it means to wear the jersey. That may be so but he is nowhere near good enough to be playing in the middle of the field for United.

I don't agree with you. I think you are a poor judge of central midfielders.

kryogen

MANUTD99 wrote: »

If we are going to be challenging for the big trophies we should be having better back up than Tom Cleverley.

Cleverley is not good enough to be first choice at United, and he isn't, he isn't good enough to be second choice even. He is however good enough and seems to have the right temperament to be, a very good squad player. Cost nothing, wont be on huge wages and has some ability. He will generally put in a shift, he can be used to fill in against the weaker teams, like Aston Villa and will get through the game well, might even score?

What exactly do you want from your 4th or 5th choice midfielder?

homerjay2005

one thing we need at the moment is a stable first 11 as we have made too many changes so far this season. the problem no is two fold - too many games coming up so cant keep playing the same 11 and the second is too many injuries - we have 7 out at the moment however and i am not sure if any of them will be back on Wednesday.

wonder will Moyes be tempted to start the same 11 on wednesday (perhaps minus Giggs) with the hope that Kagawa, Fellaini, Vidic and Hernandez will be fit for next week?

Carrick should be back in contention for Hull/Norwich i would assume but we definately need to have the back 4 solid.

MANUTD99

Pro. F wrote: »

I don't agree with you. I think you are a poor judge of central midfielders.

I think you are a brilliant judge of central midfielders

Irish94

Fletcher looked like he retained most of his weight today, was good to see.

Hopefully he will stay fit.

A big player for us, very big.

Rayne Wooney

I think most of the guff Clevs gets is because of the state of our starting 11.

If we had a top class CM beside Carrick I think Cleverley would be very good at just filling in when one is injured and he would hardly get any criticism.

UnitedIrishman

homerjay2005 wrote: »

would you not think though that playing the likes of Jones and Fletcher in that role, is a reason why our football has been so poor for the last few years?

makes us hard to beat, but our spark in the middle is pretty poor. assuming Anderson is on his way out and Giggs retiring, it leaves us with Fletcher, Fellaini, Carrick and Cleverly in the middle.

surely Moyes will be looking at those 4 options and he will know we will need 2 more signings in there.

Right now he's a legitimate option mainly because as a midfielder he does the right things - like come to the defence to look for the ball, move forward with the ball and play passes that look pretty simple but are quite positive.

What was happening us from the start of the season was that our midfielders were receiving the ball and waiting for our wingers to drop off so they were receiving the ball far too deep. And even worse, the midfielders weren't able to get into space to receive the ball back. That's why our performances against sides who have backed off us (Leverkusen, Villa) have been much better IMO. I think he knows the position better than a lot of our other options and he's decent at keeping and receiving the ball under pressure.

That's not saying we don't need to sign midfielders. But if he's reasonably fit then he gives us a decent option until then. That's all with the caveat that he can get back into the same sort of form he was in pre-illness which is a big if.

MANUTD99

kryogen wrote: »

Cleverley is not good enough to be first choice at United, and he isn't, he isn't good enough to be second choice even. He is however good enough and seems to have the right temperament to be, a very good squad player. Cost nothing, wont be on huge wages and has some ability. He will generally put in a shift, he can be used to fill in against the weaker teams, like Aston Villa and will get through the game well, might even score?

What exactly do you want from your 4th or 5th choice midfielder?

Thats the thing. He has started like 10 games this season? He is having more involvement than a 4th/5th choice midfielder

Red Crow

Cleverley doesn't have the technique, the mentality or the ability to become a Manchester United midfielder. He could very well be a squad player though.

Welbeck has everything bar the composure to be a great player. Unfortunately for him composure is quite important.

kryogen

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Thats the thing. He has started like 10 games this season? He is having more involvement than a 4th/5th choice midfielder

And why do you think that is?

Screw it, Ill answer the rhetorical myself, its because of injuries! Not because he is one of our best midfielders. If Carrick was fit, Fellaini was fit and in form would he be starting so much? No.

He is a squad player, he is playing so much right now because he has to!!

MANUTD99

kryogen wrote: »

And why do you think that is?

Screw it, Ill answer the rhetorical myself, its because of injuries! Not because he is one of our best midfielders. If Carrick was fit, Fellaini was fit and in form would he be starting so much? No.

He is a squad player, he is playing so much right now because he has to!!

Yes I agree. Apologies if I am being a bit aggressive but I wish we had a bit more to offer in the middle of the field than Tom Cleverely. I have nothing against the young lad but I really see no silverware coming from his contributions

UnitedIrishman

MANUTD99 wrote: »

Yes I agree. Apologies if I am being a bit aggressive but I wish we had a bit more to offer in the middle of the field than Tom Cleverely. I have nothing against the young lad but I really see no silverware coming from his contributions

He started 18 games last season on the way to winning the league.

homerjay2005

I think ye are all being very harsh on Cleverly, i think he is a very decent player and well deserving of a place in our squad.

id like two new midfielders bought of course and would play him in many big games from the start, but we need to be growing our CM, not selling the likes of him making our problems worse.

Giggs, Rio, Evra, Anderson are all on their way out pretty soon i would say, with Fabio and Young possible outs also. i dont think Cleverly will be included in that bunch at all nor should he.

MagicMarker

Red Crow wrote: »

Cleverley doesn't have the technique, the mentality or the ability to become a Manchester United midfielder.

You do realise he already is a Manchester United midfielder?

Kerrydude1981

Lads wasn't it absolute savage stuff to see Fletcher back today

One game at a time,

Lets build on this and push on.

Maximus Alexander

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Lads wasn't it absolute savage stuff to see Fletcher back today

One game at a time,

Lets build on this and push on.

Aye, and he was far better than I expected. I would have forgiven him for being complete muck, but he made his presence felt which was great to see.

How Soon Is Now

Dunno if already posted but for anyone who hasn't already seen it....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6m9s1jM0s

MD1990

Red Crow wrote: »

Cleverley doesn't have the technique, the mentality or the ability to become a Manchester United midfielder. He could very well be a squad player though.

Welbeck has everything bar the composure to be a great player. Unfortunately for him composure is quite important.

lol
he is also missing techique & finishing 2 of the most important things for a striker

Vic Vinegar

MD1990 -

Have you decided which team you support yet?

kryogen

MD1990 wrote: »

lol
he is also missing techique & finishing 2 of the most important things for a striker

Welbeck has very good technique, always has, he lacks a little composure. I suppose you realise that saying he is missing "finishing" is nonsense so I wont go any further with that.

kryogen

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

MD1990 -

Have you decided which team you support yet?

Hasn't he always been a Liverpool fan?

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

Hasn't he always been a Liverpool fan?

Think he 'accidentally' said "we" while referring to United a while back.

The_Kew_Tour

MD1990 wrote: »

Wouldnt want Sneijder.Koke and Herrea would be worth approaching especially Koke who is quality.Herrea recently had a great game for Bilbao against Barcelona. Both would be difficult to sign tho. I just wish we never let Pogba go. Reus is a different player than Sneijner . I dont see how they are similar myslef. Reus will be impossible to purchase. Salah of FC Basle is a player we could consider. We could do wth a left footer with pace on the wings

kryogen wrote: »

Hasn't he always been a Liverpool fan?

Who knows

Who knows;)

PhlegmyMoses

Bizarre stuff from MD.

Still struggle to accept that SAF is gone. No words to describe the man.

The_Kew_Tour

I wish Ronaldo had hung around for bit longer too

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Who knows

Who knows;)

No accident there, he is now a United fan?

Very strange.

I think we need some clarity here MD, what the **** happened there? Too many "we" and regrets of letting United players go

No way a Liverpool fan would make that slip up so spectacularly, no fan would tbf

Blatter

kryogen wrote: »

No accident there, he is now a United fan?

Very strange.

I think we need some clarity here MD, what the **** happened there? Too many "we" and regrets of letting United players go

No way a Liverpool fan would make that slip up so spectacularly, no fan would tbf

He had posted this in the Liverpool thread a couple of hours before that post on United:

MD1990 wrote: »

going from 7th to title challengers with only 1 new player player a guaranteed starter from last season (Mignolet) is unrealistic
but if we are in a decent position at start of January the owners & manager should go all out to buy some top quality players
because if we don't make top 4 Suarez will be gone in the summer 100%

So either:

a) two or more people are using his account (possible)

b) he's trolling

c) he actually supports both teams (highly unlikely)

kryogen

D. Multiple personality disorder

Imagine it, a Liverpool fan and a Man United fan, living in one body.

The inner turmoil would be incredible!