Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

bucketybuck

People can retcon and justify it all they want, but if Moyes wanted Fellaini at all then waiting until the last day of the transfer window and paying €4m more than he should have had to, well, that was muppetry of the highest order.

DM_7

United waited too long to a sign him the way the window worked out. Doesn't matter now as even though spending extra money was stupid it hardly stops future purchases.

I doubt a move for Herera is that likely in January. Moyes will be looking for players in good form and he had a poor start to the season. Also the price is too high.

As Moyes will have six months of scouting players and getting to know his own squad he will probably have other targets in mind.

Low profile signings are more likely overall as many more established players will be reluctant to move before the world cup and reluctant to leave teams doing well in Europe or domestically in the middle of a season.

I would love a bigger name to come in though and give the squad a boost in the winter like Larsson's signing back in the day. Even though it was short term it had a huge impact. Maybe the right player can be found amongst non euro cup tied or teams knocked out of european cup (come on Napoli and arsenal)

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

People can retcon and justify it all they want, but if Moyes wanted Fellaini at all then waiting until the last day of the transfer window and paying €4m more than he should have had to, well, that was muppetry of the highest order.

What??? Its been clearly explained in the previous 5 or 6 posts that Moyes didn't wait until the last day the opposite in fact, he bid for him early on. He tried to get him and Baines as part of one deal. Then Martinez came in. Its not as simple as buying whoever you want, the other club, manager and player have a say.

onemorechance

bucketybuck wrote: »

People can retcon and justify it all they want, but if Moyes wanted Fellaini at all then waiting until the last day of the transfer window and paying €4m more than he should have had to, well, that was muppetry of the highest order.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

What??? Its been clearly explained in the previous 5 or 6 posts that Moyes didn't wait until the last day the opposite in fact, he bid for him early on. He tried to get him and Baines as part of one deal. Then Martinez came in. Its not as simple as buying whoever you want, the other club, manager and player have a say.

Muppetry. Of. The. Highest. Order.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Muppetry. Of. The. Highest. Order.

I know, most people read the last couple of pages before getting into a discussion, it seems you didn't read the last couple of posts.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

I know, most people read the last couple of pages before getting into a discussion, it seems you didn't read the last couple of posts.

Rest assured, I did indeed read your tortured explanation of why Manchester United wanted Felliani for their below average midfield but did not get him until the last day of the transfer and for €4m more than the players previously applicable minimum fee release clause.

Will I Amnt

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rest assured, I did indeed read your tortured explanation of why Manchester United wanted Felliani for their below average midfield but did not get him until the last day of the transfer and for €4m more than the players previously applicable minimum fee release clause.

Say Moyes had agreed with Everton to buy Fellaini in early July and was told yes but to wait until the end of the window until they have gotten all their transfer dealings done.
Still muppetry of the highest order?

Rayne Wooney

Ah jaysus, this shít isn't starting again is it.

It was a bit like a plot for Fawlty Towers with exotic impostors and everything but it wasn't that bad.

Move on, we've a January transfer window coming up, Moyes will be 7 months in the job and will know what areas need to be strengthened.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Rest assured, I did indeed read your tortured explanation of why Manchester United wanted Felliani for their below average midfield but did not get him until the last day of the transfer and for €4m more than the players previously applicable minimum fee release clause.

Yet you ignored the fact they didn't wait until the last day to bid for him and said Moyes was a muppet for waiting unitl the last day????

Will I Amnt

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ah jaysus, this shít isn't starting again is it.

It was a bit like a plot for Fawlty Towers with exotic impostors and everything but it wasn't that bad.

Move on, we've a January transfer window coming up, Moyes will be 7 months in the job and will know what areas need to be strengthened.

I just wish people would stop assuming that everything United, Moyes or Woodward fail to do is entirely down to their incompetence when they really don't know anything that goes on behind the scenes.

Your Airbag

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Ah jaysus, this shít isn't starting again is it.

It was a bit like a plot for Fawlty Towers with exotic impostors and everything but it wasn't that bad.

Move on, we've a January transfer window coming up, Moyes will be 7 months in the job and will know what areas need to be strengthened.

As long as there are posters ignoring things like facts, reports direct from players we tried to sign in question, statements from our Manager about why we didn't get some players but instead try to paint a false picture of Moyes as a muppet and Woodward as a fool I'm afraid it will go on because there will always be posters who will reply with the facts of what happened not "me mate heard Moyes and Woody made a balls of the deal".

kryogen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Say Moyes had agreed with Everton to buy Fellaini in early July and was told yes but to wait until the end of the window until they have gotten all their transfer dealings done.
Still muppetry of the highest order?

You can say it, but everybody knows that didn't happen. So the question becomes, why would you say it?

bucketybuck

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Say Moyes had agreed with Everton to buy Fellaini in early July and was told yes but to wait until the end of the window until they have gotten all their transfer dealings done.
Still muppetry of the highest order?

You are damn right it is. If Moyes paid more than the release clause just because Everton wanted to get their own dealings sorted then that would be muppetry unseen by any man living or dead.

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

You can say it, but everybody knows that didn't happen. So the question becomes, why would you say it?

Because it's something that could have happened. Like a million other scenarios that could have happened. That's why I said it.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

the facts of what happened not "me mate heard Moyes and Woody made a balls of the deal".

simple answer yes or no, do you think United made a balls of the Fellaini deal?

Will I Amnt

bucketybuck wrote: »

You are damn right it is. If Moyes paid more than the release clause just because Everton wanted to get their own dealings sorted then that would be muppetry unseen by any man living or dead.

Correct me if I'm wrong but...
A release clause gives you permission to talk to a player? It doesn't mean you go in "here you, I'm taking this lad, there's the money"
Everton could have said they wouldn't sell. If Moyes thought Fellaini was worth what was payed, that's all that matters really.

kryogen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Because it's something that could have happened. Like a million other scenarios that could have happened. That's why I said it.

But it didn't happen, we know for a fact it didn't happen, so why introduce it?

Rayne Wooney

Ah now be reasonable,

Why was Fellaini driving around like his house was on fire in the last few hours of the window if the deal had already been agreed

And what business pays ~4m more than they need to

And it was a release clause if I'm not mistaken so Everton would have had no say in it if it was met, otherwise what's the point in having release clauses


As I said it's old news now but some are sugarcoating it just as much as others are making it sound like the biggest calamity in football. Can we move on..

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

But it didn't happen, we know for a fact it didn't happen, so why introduce it?

It's an example of something that could have happened.
What don't you get?

kryogen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but...
A release clause gives you permission to talk to a player? It doesn't mean you go in "here you, I'm taking this lad, there's the money"
Everton could have said they wouldn't sell. If Moyes thought Fellaini was worth what was payed, that's all that matters really.

Sweet jesus!

No a release clause is a clause that they must release the registration of the player for a certain fee

Its in the name, sorry to be a dick. It is a far simpler process in England then in Spain for example.

You can have all kinds of clauses, but a release clause in England does what it says on the tin, I thought you were joking about the other scenario you said may have happened, im not sure now!

sea_monkey

RVP for 24million
Felaini for 27million

420 keep blazin moyes

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

Sweet jesus!

No a release clause is a clause that they must release the registration of the player for a certain fee

Its in the name, sorry to be a dick. It is a far simpler process in England then in Spain for example.

You can have all kinds of clauses, but a release clause in England does what it says on the tin, I thought you were joking about the other scenario you said may
have happened, im not sure now!

Ok I got it wrong, keep your f**king hair on ffs.

kryogen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

It's an example of something that could have happened.
What don't you get?

It is completely irrelevant because it DID NOT happen, we know it did not happen so it has no use to provide an example for you to speculate about.

It is not an example of something that could have happened that we don't know about because the Fellaini deal was pretty much an open book! We know exactly what happened, or you would if you were watching at the time, or bothered to google

So to hold it up as something that could have happened is strange.

For something to be a possibility we need to accept that is it plausible, how can we accept that which we know to be completely wrong to be plausible?

kryogen

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Ok I got it wrong, keep your f**king hair on ffs.

My hair is safe, don't get pissy now!

I don't mean to upset you, and I am pretty relaxed. Hug?

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

It is completely irrelevant because it DID NOT happen, we know it did not happen so it has no use to provide an example for you to speculate about.

It is not an example of something that could have happened that we don't know about because the Fellaini deal was pretty much an open book! We know exactly what happened, or you would if you were watching at the time, or bothered to google

So to hold it up as something that could have happened is strange.

For something to be a possibility we need to accept that is it plausible, how can we accept that which we know to be completely wrong to be plausible?

The other poster said it was muppetry of the highest order to pay 4million more than the release clause on the last day of the window.
No matter what.
I asked him would it still be muppetry of the highest order IF that scenario happened. What I was getting at was, there could have been a reason why it played out that way. Not that exact reason. It was a question with an example.

bucketybuck

Will I Amnt wrote: »

The other poster said it was muppetry of the highest order to pay 4million more than the release clause on the last day of the window.
No matter what.
I asked him would it still be muppetry of the highest order IF that scenario happened. What I was getting at was, there could have been a reason why it played out that way. Not that exact reason. It was a question with an example.

Show me a reason why some muppetry happened and I will still be able to show you some muppetry.

Your Airbag

kryogen wrote: »

But it didn't happen, we know for a fact it didn't happen, so why introduce it?

kryogen wrote: »

It is completely irrelevant because it DID NOT happen, we know it did not happen so it has no use to provide an example for you to speculate about.

We didn't wait until the last day to bid for Fellaini either. Yet is been talked about like we did, it was asked was he a fall back because our late transfers fell through when we bid for him before them. Why is this introduced when its not true and why doesn't that warrant you questioning it?

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

We didn't wait until the last day to bid for Fellaini either.

You keep saying this as if it matters?

Heres a question for you, at 22.00 on the last day of the summer transfer window was Marouane Felliani a Manchester United player?

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

simple answer yes or no, do you think United made a balls of the Fellaini deal?

It not as simple as us making a balls of it or not, there were many factors as with and transfer.

Like I mentioned earlier and as I'm sure you know its not as simple as UTD just wanting him. Moyes said he made a joint bid for both Fellaini and Baines and it was rejected. Obviously he planned on going back in but Martinez came in and put up a front and the clause date passed.

We eventually got our man but had to pay over the odds, its obvious Martinez didn't want to sell but made sure he got his moneys worth when he did. This is common practice for every club. It doesn't mean UTD were mugged, the selling club have most of the power. Look how much Madrid got for Bale and we got for Ronaldo.

Do I think our opening offer was enough? No.

Do I think it was a tester to see if the players wanted to come and Everton wanted to sell before we made a better offer? Yes.

Do I think Martinez wanted to keep both players and asked for the backing of the chairman when he took over? Yes.

Do I think the players made it be know they wanted to go? Yes.

Do I think Fellaini really pushed for the move and Everton decided to hold out until the clause passed to get more money? Yes. Its good sense.

Do I think we made a balls of it and no other factors made the deal happen so late? No, not for a second.

Headshot

handbags at dawn

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Do I think Fellaini really pushed for the move and Everton decided to hold out until the clause passed to get more money? Yes. Its good sense.

I shouldn't dignify this tosh with a response, but this just begs the question.

How exactly did Everton hold out, considering that had United met the clause they would have had no say in the matter?

If United wanted Felliani, why didn't they meet the clause?

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Obviously he planned on going back in but Martinez came in and put up a front and the clause date passed.

Put up a front? Did he growl down the phone to scare United away or something?

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

You keep saying this as if it matters?

Heres a question for you, at 22.00 on the last day of the summer transfer window was Marouane Felliani a Manchester United player?

Jesus. It does matter, you said Moyes was a muppet for waiting until the last day to bid for Fellaini when he didn't. Its what you and we have been talking about. Its the whole bloody point.

Homer asked if Fellaini was a fall back after our late transfers fell through and people said yes when it was clearly not as we bid for him earlier.

Do people have selective memories and just ignore repeatedly posted facts if they don't fit there argument?

We bid for him early, he was not a fall back and Moyes was not a muppet for leaving it late. Everton later stated in the window that they didn't want to sell either player. These are FACTS.

They obviously had a price and held up the deal past the clause date to get more money.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

Put up a front? Did he growl down the phone to scare United away or something?

No thats stupid and a childish point. He tired not to sell the players, he said he wanted to keep them. You can continue to ignore this and make silly remarks but it doesn't change the fact it happened. So he put a front of resistance up in his press conferences and media statements You basically have no point and your replies show as much.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Jesus. It does matter, you said Moyes was a muppet for waiting until the last day to bid for Fellaini when he didn't. Its what you and we have been talking about. Its the whole bloody point.

Homer asked if Fellaini was a fall back after our late transfers fell through and people said yes when it was clearly not as we bid for him earlier.

Do people have selective memories and just ignore repeatedly posted facts if they don't fit there argument?

We bid for him early, he was not a fall back and Moyes was not a muppet for leaving it late. Everton later stated in the window that they didn't want to sell either player. These are FACTS.

They obviously had a price and held up the deal past the clause date to get more money.

So your point is, your argument is, that United DID bid for Felliani early, but that they DID NOT bid the amount that would trigger the minimium fee release clause? Correct?

So you are saying that United did make a bid, but didn't meet the release clause, then waited until the clause had passed before making another bid, this time for more than the release clause, and then didn't finalise this bid until the last hour of the transfer window because of reasons.

Can anyone else smell some muppetry?

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

No thats stupid and a childish point. He tired not to sell the players, he said he wanted to keep them. You can continue to ignore this and make silly remarks but it doesn't change the fact it happened. So he put a front of resistance up in his press conferences and media statements You basically have no point and your replies show as much.

If United wanted Felliani, why didn't they meet the release clause?

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

So your point is, your argument is, that United DID bid for Felliani early, but that they DID NOT bid the amount that would trigger the minimium fee release clause? Correct?

So you are saying that United did make a bid, but didn't meet the release clause, then waited until the clause had passed before making another bid, this time for more than the release clause, and then didn't finalise this bid until the last hour of the transfer window because of reasons.

Can anyone else smell some muppetry?

No. I didn't. You have obviously failed to get the point of what was said either through your in ability to so so or not reading the posts carefully enough.

I would clearly state the point again to try and get you to understand but this would be my fourth time and from the past evidence a waste of time as you don't want to hear the point.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

No. I didn't. You have obviously failed to get the point of what was said either through your in ability to so so or not reading the posts carefully enough.

I would clearly state the point again to try and get you to understand but this would be my fourth time and from the past evidence a waste of time as you don't want to hear the point.

If United wanted Felliani why didn't they meet the release clause?

KombuchaMshroom

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Ok I got it wrong, keep your f**king hair on ffs.

You did start your post with the words "correct me if im wrong".


Anyway, just wondering if anyone here knows about the difficulty of getting tickets to away matches? I'm not expecting much joy here but I just found out ill be in London in January on the Sunday we play chelsea so I just thought I'd look into. I presume im probably wasting my time for such a big game though?

Will I Amnt

KombuchaMshroom wrote: »

You did start your post with the words "correct me if im wrong".


Anyway, just wondering if anyone here knows about the difficulty of getting tickets to away matches? I'm not expecting much joy here but I just found out ill be in London in January on the Sunday we play chelsea so I just thought I'd look into. I presume im probably wasting my time for such a big game though?

Yep, I wasn't sure. I prefer to be corrected in a less confrontational and condescending manner.

Cantona's Collars

Ronaldo scores for Portugal.

homerjay2005

Rooney and Smalling beaten poorly in the air for Germanys goal. Smalling was directly marking him.

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Rooney and Smalling beaten poorly in the air for Germanys goal. Smalling was directly marking him.

Poor Rooney being run to death in Englands weird system,there's a big midfield hole & Rooney is having to chase down the ball rather than get any decent service from those behind him,they all seem intent on constantly passing the ball to Townsend.

Your Airbag

bucketybuck wrote: »

If United wanted Felliani why didn't they meet the release clause?

As I said earlier, or as I repeated what Moyes said he wanted to get both Fellaini and Baines together as a joint deal. The opening bid was for both, Moyes has said this. He obviously felt he could get a better deal for both.

The initial bid was rejected. Martinez came in etc etc. Why didn't Moyes go back in individually for Fellaini? I don't have that answer my guess is he still thought he could get both.

Phone calls etc could have happened. We don't know. When it came clear it wasn't going to happen he went for one of the two. The clause date had been passed by then, the value for both didn't happen, it doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea, it also doesn't mean Moyes could not have done better before Martinez came in. So we went individually for the one of the two we needed most.

Listen, sorry for my tone earlier but we have had this all summer and all season and I'm tired of it. People calling our manager and idiot and a chief exec a clown. Its the exact same stuff rival fans say and we are hearing UTD fans repeat it on the board. I can't be the only one sick of it?

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses when it comes to Moyes and Woodward either. I don't think they covered themselves in glory during the transfer window and some of Moyes early team selections were wrong but he is finding his feet and it looks like he can be a good manager but I don't think they are fools who made a balls if it either. It wasn't easy for Moyes to access what he had, oversee a pre season and put up with clubs dealing with us and I'm sure they wanted to make life difficult for us now that Fergie had gone.


It has been said repeatedly on here that Moyes called off the Thiago deal cause he didn't rate him. Pep had an aggreement with Thiago before we went near him. Thats a Fhacccct.

It been said that "Woodward made a balls of the Cesc deal, a mate of mine on the inside heard" Cesc himself said he never wanted to leave and he talked to Barca officails after the bid went in and they told him they didn't want to sell. Thats a Fhacccct.

People keep on ignoring this and other facts and have a go. Its tiresome. PLayers don't want to move and clubs don't want to sell and it doesn't happen but people will use it as a stick to beat Moyes and Woodward with.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

As I said earlier, or as I repeated what Moyes said he wanted to get both Fellaini and Baines together as a joint deal. The opening bid was for both, Moyes has said this. He obviously felt he could get a better deal for both.

The initial bid was rejected. Martinez came in etc etc. Why didn't Moyes go back in individually for Fellaini? I don't have that answer my guess is he still thought he could get both.

Phone calls etc could have happened. We don't know. When it came clear it wasn't going to happen he went for one of the two. The clause date had been passed by then, the value for both didn't happen, it doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea, it also doesn't mean Moyes could not have done better before Martinez came in. So we went individually for the one of the two we needed most.

Listen, sorry for my tone earlier but we have had this all summer and all season and I'm tired of it. People calling our manager and idiot and a chief exec a clown. Its the exact same stuff rival fans say and we are hearing UTD fans repeat it on the board. I can't be the only one sick of it?

I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses when it comes to Moyes and Woodward either. I don't think they covered themselves in glory during the transfer window and some of Moyes early team selections were wrong but he is finding his feet and it looks like he can be a good manager but I don't think they are fools who made a balls if it either. It wasn't easy for Moyes to access what he had, oversee a pre season and put up with clubs dealing with us and I'm sure they wanted to make life difficult for us now that Fergie had gone.


It has been said repeatedly on here that Moyes called off the Thiago deal cause he didn't rate him. Pep had an aggreement with Thiago before we went near him. Thats a Fhacccct.

It been said that "Woodward made a balls of the Cesc deal, a mate of mine on the inside heard" Cesc himself said he never wanted to leave and he talked to Barca officails after the bid went in and they told him they didn't want to sell. Thats a Fhacccct.

People keep on ignoring this and other facts and have a go. Its tiresome. PLayers don't want to move and clubs don't want to sell and it doesn't happen but people will use it as a stick to beat Moyes and Woodward with.

at the same time, you repeating lazy excuses others don't buy as if they have to be considered utterly legitimate reasons and not stupid at all, is annoying too.

Another thing - we get it - you only believe what the club and players officially state in public. Fair enough. Others believe footballers and football clubs lie all the time as it benefits them.

RasTa

Did Rooney play 90 mins against Chile? Looks like he is playing another, jokeshop.

Cantona's Collars

Rooney off for England,they gave him 70 mins.More than enough.

aperture_nuig

I miss Ronaldo

Will I Amnt

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Others believe footballers and football clubs lie all the time as it benefits them.

So why should we believe any information that journalists get second hand from these lying clubs?