Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

SlickRic

Vidic and Carrick present in that back 6 makes a huge difference.

Mars Bar

It's also worrying how often the Norwich players were able to get in to the space between our midfield and defence. Our midfield is far too square.

Robson99

SlickRic wrote: »

Vidic and Carrick present in that back 6 makes a huge difference.

Vidic is a must for the games coming up. Carrick will improve us a little bit but has been poor this season and I think he will struggle in the bigger games coming up . We badly need 2 proper top class middle of the park players. Dont know where we will get them though

Your Airbag

Mars Bar wrote: »

It's also worrying how often the Norwich players were able to get in to the space between our midfield and defence. Our midfield is far too square.

Zero bite to our MF defensively atm. Carrick is not fully match fit imo and Clev was rushing in and getting beat a lot.

Carrick is also creating little, he is not in form at all.

DM_7

Carrick and Jones combo proved itself capable of providing a good platform last season v Madrid and this v Arsenal. Its a pity Jones is out injured.

n32

DM-ICE wrote: »

Carrick and Jones combo proved itself capable of providing a good platform last season v Madrid and this v Arsenal. Its a pity Jones is out injured.

thats the ideal setup for Carrick, he can do the passing and Jones does the destroying. Fletcher before his illness was good at it aswell. Hopefully Fletcher can rediscover some of his aggressiveness around the midfield

RasTa

Not impressed at all by Carrick very slow. Hernandez is not very good at football.

Is Danny our most skilful player with the ball at is feet?

The_Kew_Tour

RasTa wrote: »

Not impressed at all by Carrick very slow. Hernandez is not very good at football.

Is Danny our most skilful player with the ball at is feet?

I thought Carrick was very solid. Nothing special, but considering his first full 90 minutes in a while thought it was solid display.

Paul Tergat

RasTa wrote: »

Is Danny our most skilful player with the ball at is feet?

He's very good. I've heard a few people talk about his link up play not being the best. Not sure what they are watching to be honest. A confident Welbeck who is working on his finishing means we are going to have some player.

NaiveMelodies

Absolutely criminal if a left back is not signed in Jan. We'll get away with top four with our current Midfield for now, but if we do not sign a left back that will either scare the bollix out of Evra to start concentrating or to be able to takeover the slot altogether we will not get top four in my opinion.
It's scary how he zones out at times, complete legend and his attacking form has been excellent but there comes a time when enough is enough.

Liam O

only1stevo wrote: »

Absolutely criminal if a left back is not signed in Jan. We'll get away with top four with our current Midfield for now, but if we do not sign a left back that will either scare the bollix out of Evra to start concentrating or to be able to takeover the slot altogether we will not get top four in my opinion.
It's scary how he zones out at times, complete legend and his attacking form has been excellent but there comes a time when enough is enough.

According to wiki Coentrao is yet to play in Europe. Would be a fine signing.

n32

Paul Tergat wrote: »

He's very good. I've heard a few people talk about his link up play not being the best. Not sure what they are watching to be honest. A confident Welbeck who is working on his finishing means we are going to have some player.

He definitely needs to be persisted with. If he was sold and developed into the good player he potentially could be it would be a shame

Vic Vinegar

Liam O wrote: »

According to wiki Coentrao is yet to play in Europe. Would be a fine signing.

We should definitely go back in for him, far better option that Baines imo. Younger and more versatile.

The_Kew_Tour

Im going to have to admit it, but Evra needs a boot up backside.

Love the man, but he needs some competition. Only so many times you can defend a player.

Al Capwned

Coentrao would be a good signing. A really good one.
He can play in quite a few positions too!

beno619

Liam O wrote: »

According to wiki Coentrao is yet to play in Europe. Would be a fine signing.

Only played 4 times this season in a World Cup year. Surely he's itching to leave.

DM_7

Coentrao would be a great option. If it can't be done and as Fabio isn't the man, then United need to buy someone like Davide Santon, young, PL experience, can play left or right back and has potential to improve.

n32

Coentrao could be possible considering we had all but signed him in august but missed the deadline . anyone would be better than having Butthead as a replacement

wadacrack

DM-ICE wrote: »

Coentrao would be a great option. If it can't be done and as Fabio isn't the man, then United need to buy someone like Davide Santon, young, PL experience, can play left or right back and has potential to improve.

Santon would be a good signing.Has always impressed since he marked Ronaldo for Inter a number of years ago. He is right footed so can be used on either side

dundalkfc10

Al Capwned wrote: »

Coentrao would be a good signing. A really good one.
He can play in quite a few positions too!

LB or Left Wing is not quite a a few positions

wadacrack

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

LB or Left Wing is not quite a a few positions

He has played as a defensive midfielder

Lucas Hood

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

LB or Left Wing is not quite a a few positions

wadacrack wrote: »

He has played as a defensive midfielder

He's played right back and right wing before too.

Pighead

Mars Bar wrote: »

Don't be baiting or you'll get a yellow.

This goes for everyone who is trying to start the Cleverley debate.

What? We're not allowed to start discussion regarding Utd midfielders in a Utd thread on a discussion board? How is what bucketybuck said baiting? It's his opinion? Debate the issue rather than silencing him.

lordgoat

Pighead wrote: »

What? We're not allowed to start discussion regarding Utd midfielders in a Utd thread on a discussion board? How is what bucketybuck said baiting? It's his opinion? Debate the issue rather than silencing him.

There was along discussion on Clevs merits as a midfielder and it seems a re run isn't wanted.

Pighead

lordgoat wrote: »

There was along discussion on Clevs merits as a midfielder and it seems a re run isn't wanted.

Didn't realise there was a time limit on discussions. Does this mean the next thread on how brilliant Ronaldo is will get locked as we've gone down that road before?

It's nonsense. If people want to discuss it a discussion will naturally generate. If not, the discussion will naturally die. Tom Cleverly in my opinion is not taking his chance at the moment to convince Moyes he's the man for the job. Other people think differently. Divisive issue= topic worth discussing.

lordgoat

Pighead wrote: »

Didn't realise there was a time limit on discussions. Does this mean the next thread on how brilliant Ronaldo is will get locked as we've gone down that road before?

It's nonsense. If people want to discuss it a discussion will naturally generate. If not, the discussion will naturally die. Tom Cleverly in my opinion is not taking his chance at the moment to convince Moyes he's the man for the job. Other people think differently. Divisive issue= topic worth discussing.

I whole heartedly agree with you.

I also don't think he was the worst player out there. At times he was poor at times he did well. Pretty much the story of the season for him!

Rayne Wooney

I think everyone is in agreement that Cleverley isn't the man for the job that's the thing, he's brought up after every game he's played in in the last while as a scapegoat for our poor midfield showing but it's always shown that while he's part of the problem, he's not the only problem. But some seem to make out that he is.

I think that's why the discussion isn't allowed, as it's just going around in a circle, I may be wrong though.

Pighead

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think everyone is in agreement that Cleverley isn't the man for the job that's the thing, he's brought up after every game he's played in in the last while as a scapegoat for our poor midfield showing but it's always shown that while he's part of the problem, he's not the only problem. But some seem to make out that he is.

I think that's why the discussion isn't allowed, as it's just going around in a circle, I may be wrong though.

Is like to hear a mod explain why discussing Cleverley is not allowed but if what you're saying is right I'm baffled. The last two or three months in here has seen various people go around in circles discussing Moyes suitability for the managers job. Don't remember any ban on that discussion.

Thought mods job was to prevent agro and to promote civilised discussion. Why are they now dictating what constitutes valid discussion?

beno619

The funny thing about it is he is the player most people would agree should not be in the starting line-up. Everybody knows we need a midfielder.

That would point to his performances being a major part of the problem along with selections made by the manager.

He is capable of playing better than he is but has been awful all season for no apparent reason.

PhlegmyMoses

Whilst I don't think the debate should be stopped, it is ****ing boring reading the same 2 or 3 posters trot out the same arguments in ever more flowery and long-winded prose.

The debate should be allowed to continue, but certain posters should probably be told to take it to PM.

kryogen

What isn't wanted is a back and forth between Pro and YA that goes on for pages and pages covering the same ground over and over again. They are not going to agree and there is no point in that at all, it just makes threads more annoying to skip through. Normal discussion regarding Clev shouldn't be banned imo, what purpose does that serve? What is the point of the forum if you cant discuss football or football players?

I get the wanting to stop the constant tit for tat with the two posters mentioned, but that really should be taken up with them shouldn't it rather then tell people they are not allowed to discuss Cleverley?

I suggest we leave it at that here though since this isn't really the place to be discussing the moderation of the forum

Robson99

beno619 wrote: »

The funny thing about it is he is the player most people would agree should not be in the starting line-up. Everybody knows we need a midfielder.

To be fair Carrick has been piss poor as well. We dont need 1 midfielder we need 2

kryogen

We know Carrick can do the job though, he tends to start seasons slowly and this season is worse because of injury interrupting him too. He will be fine

Pighead

kryogen wrote: »

What isn't wanted is a back and forth between Pro and YA that goes on for pages and pages covering the same ground over and over again. They are not going to agree and there is no point in that at all, it just makes threads more annoying to skip through. Normal discussion regarding Clev shouldn't be banned imo, what purpose does that serve? What is the point of the forum if you cant discuss football or football players?

I get the wanting to stop the constant tit for tat with the two posters mentioned, but that really should be taken up with them shouldn't it rather then tell people they are not allowed to discuss Cleverley?

I suggest we leave it at that here though since this isn't really the place to be discussing the moderation of the forum

Not being funny but is it not very easy to skim past posts you have no interest in reading? I actually enjoy the tit for tat arguments that go on for ages.

There's something kinda funny about the image of picturing two people behind a computer bashing away at their keyboards refusing to back down and sticking to their guns till the bitter end. Now I completely understand people not enjoying these type of posts but surely within the first few words of a post you can tell if it's best to read or ignore?

Al Capwned

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

LB or Left Wing is not quite a a few positions

No. That would be two.

Quite a few would be Left back, left midfield, centre mid, right back.

Edit - seems others got there before me!

Liam O

This has to be some sort of joke? How is Evra nominated by the club for Motm and Vidic and Evans not? I know things like this should not annoy me but I did a double take.

https://www.facebook.com/manchesterunited?v=app_275607189227746

beno619

Liam O wrote: »

This has to be some sort of joke? How is Evra nominated by the club for Motm and Vidic and Evans not? I know things like this should not annoy me but I did a double take.

https://www.facebook.com/manchesterunited?v=app_275607189227746

Sky Sports also had him up their as he apparently improved in the second half, we were to busy cursing his first half performance to notice any improvement.

kryogen

Pighead wrote: »

Not being funny but is it not very easy to skim past posts you have no interest in reading? I actually enjoy the tit for tat arguments that go on for ages.

There's something kinda funny about the image of picturing two people behind a computer bashing away at their keyboards refusing to back down and sticking to their guns till the bitter end. Now I completely understand people not enjoying these type of posts but surely within the first few words of a post you can tell if it's best to read or ignore?

Of course you can skim through them, I did say it becomes annoying skipping through threads. You enjoy the tit for tats that go on for ages? Cool, not everybody does though

I like an argument, I like a debate. I don't like the exact same things being repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (you get the message) again. Nothing new is brought up, neither side gives an inch and they will not reconcile to any sort of consensus on the matter.

At some point in a debate, the two parties have said everything they can to each other and all they will do from then on is regurgitate the same info again and again. It has no merit.

I am interested as to what you feel are the merits of it? No new point of view, no new information, verging toward being more personal with each post?

Cantona's Collars

Montroseee wrote: »

Nice result, things are finally looking up but when do the excuses stop with Kagawa? No impact yet again.

Look at the players & style of play Dortmund had when he was there compared to the turgid crap that we've had to put up with at United for the past 18 months or so.Had he joined the team a few years ago when we played with verve & movement,then I feel he'd be hailed as a superstar.Feckin' Messi would struggle at United the way we play atm.

It got to the stage today that I didn't even want to watch the game any more,it was like watching ROI under Trapp at times.Fair enough we've had to dig in for results before but at times today in the 1st half it was like a continuation of the Hull game with us having our backs to the wall aimlessly kicking the ball up the field,even Carrick was at it & he's normally the one to bring calm to proceedings.At times,you'd wonder if it was United who were in the yellow shirts instead of red.

MANUTD99

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Im going to have to admit it, but Evra needs a boot up backside.

Love the man, but he needs some competition. Only so many times you can defend a player.

When we bought Buttner last year he seemed to up his game. That GIF of him when Butters scored against Wigan was priceless. Bringing Fabio back from loan I thought would of gave him more determination to kick on.

Maybe the Baines saga has gotten to him I don't know but he is getting caught napping way too much. The fact he is coming out openly saying players need to step up is a bit condescending as he should be following his own advice.

He is one of my favorite characters at the club so a massive pity. Maybe he has one eye on the exit door. When is his contract up?

Your Airbag

DM-ICE wrote: »

Good to see Welbeck finding his 11/12 form. Takes some of the pressure off Rooney and RVP who have had to score too many goals this season compared to rest of rest of the team.

On the performance, I understand the frustrations. If United were more expansive we would have more points, Cardiff or Southampton as examples of losing points late on and just trying to sneak the win.

Today though, under the circumstances I only wanted a win and didn't care about the performance. Missing two best players, missing Nani, no Rafael again, no Fellaini. Carrick only back from injury. Played a game only two days ago ( yeah I know Norwich did as well).

The type of performance used meant little if three important points were achieved and happy to sneak a win all things considered.

Performances need to improve for sure but that should be over time when new players are brought in and more importantly best players are all fit. Especially the latter.

I don't expect others to agree its just my own opinion so don't go mental on me :-P

I don't know why you thought people would have a go at you for this. Its a perfectly valid post full of common sense and good points. Pretty much mirrored my thoughts exactly after the match to.

Everyone is happy to see Welbecks game improve I'm sure. It can only be good for UTD. There is no scapegoating needed for today because there were so many poor players its impossible to scapegoat. There was scapegoating for the late Hull pressure but that was uncalled for too. Its usually more than one players causing a whole team to be pinned back.

A lot of posters seemed to get irritated by the holding onto the ball down by the Norwich corner flag today. "Seeing UTD hang on like this is sad" and other such comments were made. Yes its not nice to see or ideal but we are in the thick of the busy christmas period missing our best two players and other important players. If we were creating much I could understand the frustration but we were not and lucky to be ahead. Of course there is plenty of reason to be frustrated at the overall display.

We got another 3 points and if results go our way tomorrow things will look better. Its a head of steam that we can all be happy about.

Vidic and Carrick back is important and will hopefully help us get through games easier. I don't think we would have got 3 points if Vidic was not out there today. Actually I'm sure of it.

DM_7

Pighead wrote: »

What? We're not allowed to start discussion regarding Utd midfielders in a Utd thread on a discussion board? How is what bucketybuck said baiting? It's his opinion? Debate the issue rather than silencing him.

Probably because of how it was worded rather than the topic. I would imagine it's fine to discuss him but not have digs (intentional or otherwise) at posters in doing so.

Robson99

kryogen wrote: »

We know Carrick can do the job though, he tends to start seasons slowly and this season is worse because of injury interrupting him too. He will be fine

He will be alright as a squad player along with Cleverly but its time for a big shake up in the middle and two proper player bought. We need a Gundogan and one of Modric/Kroos/Cabaye/Koke to have a proper midfield imo.

Carrick has been alright for us. Couple of good seasons [ very good last season ] and a few average seasons. Time to upgrade

The_Kew_Tour

MANUTD99 wrote: »

When is his contract up?

I am open for correction but think its end of season

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I am open for correction but think its end of season

It is, I would like if that could get sorted sooner rather then later

Your Airbag

Robson99 wrote: »

He will be alright as a squad player along with Cleverly but its time for a big shake up in the middle and two proper player bought. We need a Gundogan and one of Modric/Kroos/Cabaye/Koke to have a proper midfield imo.

Carrick has been alright for us. Couple of good seasons [ very good last season ] and a few average seasons. Time to upgrade

I've always said out entire MF is not ideal for UTD. Carrick and Fletch as good as they can be on their best day included. When you look at the other top european teams I don't think they'd welcome any of our current MF options into their starting XI.

wadacrack

kryogen wrote: »

We know Carrick can do the job though, he tends to start seasons slowly and this season is worse because of injury interrupting him too. He will be fine

Think one of the problems in our midfield is that temp of our passing can be too slow especially in the final third. While we need one midfielder to dictate the pace of the game we need to move the ball quicker. Giggs Cleverly and Carrick all tried play the game at their own pace but sometimes one of the midfielders needs to up the tempo. We are able to do it on the outside and wingers but true the centre less likely to happen

Devil08

Carrick admitted he was 'rusty' today and that he would be better for it. Agree with him there. People being harsh on him here, he has been carrying our midfield for a long time, he deserves a bit of slack.
Not his fault he is playing with a piece of **** beside him in every game

Liam O

zerks wrote: »

Look at the players & style of play Dortmund had when he was there compared to the turgid crap that we've had to put up with at United for the past 18 months or so.Had he joined the team a few years ago when we played with verve & movement,then I feel he'd be hailed as a superstar.Feckin' Messi would struggle at United the way we play atm.

It got to the stage today that I didn't even want to watch the game any more,it was like watching ROI under Trapp at times.Fair enough we've had to dig in for results before but at times today in the 1st half it was like a continuation of the Hull game with us having our backs to the wall aimlessly kicking the ball up the field,even Carrick was at it & he's normally the one to bring calm to proceedings.At times,you'd wonder if it was United who were in the yellow shirts instead of red.

I was actually thinking about this during the game today. Let's say United had gone in for Ozil and gotten him over Arsenal during the Summer. Would there be any difference between him and Kagawa in this United team? Kagawa towards the end of the first half seemed to abandon whatever tactical plan that Moyes had given him and go at the defense a lot more himself. It was the team's best period of the (admittedly terrible half). Early in the 2nd half there was some good link up play and I think United were noticeably worse at holding onto the ball after he went off. I'm not sure why he hasn't been at least tried in the role Cleverley is being played in. Ironically a lot of people would welcome Modric to be signed when he is as defensively weak as Kagawa.

It's a tactical problem that United have struggled with in recent seasons players are too static and don't offer support. When they move it is away from the ball. Kagawa came in short looking for the ball a few times today and was bypassed for a 15-20 or sometimes much longer yard hopeful ball out to the wing or at a double marked Chico. The idea of quick passing isn't something that seems to be in the tactical teaching and nobody seems to trust each other to collect and lay off a ball to them.

Your Airbag

Liam O wrote: »

I was actually thinking about this during the game today. Let's say United had gone in for Ozil and gotten him over Arsenal during the Summer. Would there be any difference between him and Kagawa in this United team? Kagawa towards the end of the first half seemed to abandon whatever tactical plan that Moyes had given him and go at the defense a lot more himself. It was the team's best period of the (admittedly terrible half). Early in the 2nd half there was some good link up play and I think United were noticeably worse at holding onto the ball after he went off. I'm not sure why he hasn't been at least tried in the role Cleverley is being played in. Ironically a lot of people would welcome Modric to be signed when he is as defensively weak as Kagawa.

It's a tactical problem that United have struggled with in recent seasons players are too static and don't offer support. When they move it is away from the ball. Kagawa came in short looking for the ball a few times today and was bypassed for a 15-20 or sometimes much longer yard hopeful ball out to the wing or at a double marked Chico. The idea of quick passing isn't something that seems to be in the tactical teaching and nobody seems to trust each other to collect and lay off a ball to them.

I wonder this too. Him and Carrick central with Rooney and RVP ahead of them flanked by Adnan/Nani/Youg/Val or whoever must be at least worth a shot.

The only problem I see is defensively Kagawa was not great today but he can't offer much less than Clev does in there.