Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Hank Scorpio

Yes get rid, horrible signing by Ferguson in fairness. Fabio deserves a shot as backup

Corvo

Ask for £40m just to give them a taste of their own medicine

bucketybuck

Don't really see why Spurs would want Buttner, is he really any better than Naughton, Fryers or Assou-Ekoto? He's not going to improve their first team and they already have average but solid players for backup there, why get another one?

wadacrack

Nick Powell..can he play in a 2 man midfield. If we do not sign anyone we should bring him back. Barkley didnt play that well in the championship last year yet Powell is performing very well

Headshot

I would be even be happy with Coentrao in January

LostBoy101

Headshot wrote: »

I would be even be happy with Coentrao in January

And Buttner out the other way.

beno619

From what I have seen Powell is more of a number 10 at least that's where he has played recently when not up front.

wadacrack

Was reading Fergusons book.Spoke very highly of Powell. Said there is no question he will be a full international for England

kryogen

Fergie says a lot of things, with all due respect to the man.

Hoping Powell does fulfil his potential, its definitely there, I dunno if he will be a genuine centre midfielder though, very attack minded.

Pudzianowski

A bit surprised we haven't been linked to either of the 2 Newcastle mids. Papers had PSG & arsenal both linked.

homerjay2005

the best thing for Powell surely now is a loan deal for the rest of the season to the PL as opposed to staying in the championship.

not sure he is ready for United at the moment.

yabadabado

Your Airbag wrote: »

No idea how reliable but.....



http://thepeoplesperson.com/tottenham-hotspur-have-made-an-official-approach-to-manchester-united-about-signing-buttner/?

can't see it happening or why Spurs would want him but can see a few transfers out like this.Moyes had a few months to evaluate players and I presume he has now decided who is surplus to requirements.Fabio is a much better players but he doesn't seem to be rated either.
Baines or Coentrao to join in January ?

fatherted1969

Hopefully something concrete early in the transfer window. Don't want to be staring at the telly at 11:05 on deadline praying for someone/anyone.

Unearthly

homerjay2005 wrote: »

the best thing for Powell surely now is a loan deal for the rest of the season to the PL as opposed to staying in the championship.

not sure he is ready for United at the moment.

I'd prefer to keep him at Wigan where he is doing well.

Would be a disaster if he went on loan to a prem club and never got a game(Rossi, Macheda, Henriquez)

kryogen

Unearthly wrote: »

I'd prefer to keep him at Wigan where he is doing well.

Would be a disaster if he went on loan to a prem club and never got a game(Rossi, Macheda, Henriquez)

If he goes somewhere like Hull Bruce will give him games Im sure.

Id rather that then stay at Wigan, though he would have to be pretty sure of getting regular game time, need to see if he can hack it in the Prem, no good being able for the Championship, we knew he was at that level already

homerjay2005

Unearthly wrote: »

Would be a disaster if he went on loan to a prem club and never got a game(Rossi, Macheda, Henriquez)

if they are good enough, they will get games. Rossi i am sure was an exception, but maybe he just didnt fit in there.

the majority of lads who go on loans and dont make it at the clubs, just are not good enough.

wadacrack

Moyes should use Fabio much more. Wev seen how Rafael has developed.He is a very good full back now. Fabio is the more technically gifted of the two. Zaha signed for 16m yet no gametime.

bucketybuck

Unearthly wrote: »

I'd prefer to keep him at Wigan where he is doing well.

Would be a disaster if he went on loan to a prem club and never got a game(Rossi, Macheda, Henriquez)

Yeah I don't really see the need to change things at this point. He is playing every game for a championship club, doing well and scoring goals, this can only be good for his confidence and development. Why take a risk that he goes to somewhere like Hull and Bruce decides he needs more seasoned campaigners to grind out points, or that he doesn't gel with the squad and his form drops? Risk outweighs the positives in my opinion, for this season at least.

kryogen

wadacrack wrote: »

Moyes should use Fabio much more. Wev seen how Rafael has developed.He is a very good full back now. Fabio is the more technically gifted of the two. Zaha signed for 16m yet no gametime.

Whatever about Fabio, Zaha has shown nothing, in pre season or otherwise to deserve any more minutes then he has up to this point, if we were winning our games easier Im sure he would have a few more minutes for experience anyway but we haven't for the most part.

Moyes didn't sign Zaha.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yeah I don't really see the need to change things at this point. He is playing every game for a championship club, doing well and scoring goals, this can only be good for his confidence and development. Why take a risk that he goes to somewhere like Hull and Bruce decides he needs more seasoned campaigners to grind out points, or that he doesn't gel with the squad and his form drops? Risk outweighs the positives in my opinion, for this season at least.

Bruce has a good track record with our loan players

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Whatever about Fabio, Zaha has shown nothing, in pre season or otherwise to deserve any more minutes then he has up to this point, if we were winning our games easier Im sure he would have a few more minutes for experience anyway but we haven't for the most part.

Moyes didn't sign Zaha.

Was Zaha not our best player in pre season along with Adnan ?

Moyes may not fancy him but tbh he has made lots of mistakes since taking over from fergie.
It's not unthinkable that freezing out certain players and his use of kagawa have been mistakes.

Devil08

beno619 wrote: »

Was Zaha not our best player in pre season along with Adnan ?

Moyes may not fancy him but tbh he has made lots of mistakes since taking over from fergie.
It's not unthinkable that freezing out certain players and his use of kagawa have been mistakes.

He was rubbish in preseason . Lingard and adnan were the two stand out performers. Lingard looks a better prospect than zaha tbh

RobertKK

Devil08 wrote: »

He was rubbish in preseason . Lingard and adnan were the two stand out performers. Lingard looks a better prospect than zaha tbh

I really like Lingard, he has a great eye for goal and more life about him than some of our wingers.

Edit to add, he played 20 games for Birmingham this season, 9 goals and 7 assists.

beno619

Devil08 wrote: »

He was rubbish in preseason . Lingard and adnan were the two stand out performers. Lingard looks a better prospect than zaha tbh

Okay, there was a lot of hype about his performances coming from somewhere.

Missed most of the pre season games, is Lingard a winger or #10 ? Looked pretty average from the small clips I have seen.

Red Crow

Zaha rubbish in preseason? Jesus, I've heard it all now. The guy was excellent

RossieMan

RobertKK wrote: »

I really like Lingard, he has a great eye for goal and more life about him than some of our wingers.

Edit to add, he played 20 games for Birmingham this season, 9 goals and 7 assists.

With 4 in one game if i remember correctly. Stats make him seem much better than hes actually preformed. He has potential, but i wouldn't be so sure yet. Zaha from what i've seen is a better prospect, obviously just needs game time.

v3ttel

Devil08 wrote: »

He was rubbish in preseason . Lingard and adnan were the two stand out performers. Lingard looks a better prospect than zaha tbh

Zaha, rubbish in pre-season? I take it you didn't actually watch any of the games, are blatantly trolling, or are completely and utterly clueless? I just can't work out which one yet.

I watched all the games in full. Zaha was right up there with Januzaj in pre-season. He was one of our best performers. He was given the nod to start ahead of Januzaj in the Community Shield where we basically fielded all of our best players who were fit (De Gea, Rafael, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Van Persie, etc). Zaha's start was surely based off his excellent pre-season form, not a completely wild selection of throwing a no-hoper in with the senior members of the squad for no apparent reason.

RobertKK

As said above, in preseason the three players that stood out were Januzaj, Lingard and Zaha.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

Whatever about Fabio, Zaha has shown nothing, in pre season or otherwise to deserve any more minutes then he has up to this point, if we were winning our games easier Im sure he would have a few more minutes for experience anyway but we haven't for the most part.

Just when is he supposed to have shown this nothing? He has had 30 minutes actual playing time in the league this season, just how the hell is he supposed to show anything?

The thing is, Zaha might play a run of games and be absolutely useless. Thats a maybe. Whats not a maybe is that Valencia has played 1146 mins of Premier league action this season and has only 1 goal and 2 assists. No mights or maybes about it, Valencia has been dire, so at what point does a rational man decide that maybe Zaha is worth giving a chance ahead of him?

Or do we give Valencia another 1146 minutes, see if that works? Whats that definition of insanity again...

RobertKK

beno619 wrote: »

Okay, there was a lot of hype about his performances coming from somewhere.

Missed most of the pre season games, is Lingard a winger or #10 ? Looked pretty average from the small clips I have seen.

He can play as a number 10 but also on either wing. Versatile in that area.

DM_7

Powell can be a good centre midfielder. An easy comparison would be Lampard, both physically and the natural goal scoring ability, attacking instincts.

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just when is he supposed to have shown this nothing? He has had 30 minutes actual playing time in the league this season, just how the hell is he supposed to show anything?

The thing is, Zaha might play a run of games and be absolutely useless. Thats a maybe. Whats not a maybe is that Valencia has played 1146 mins of Premier league action this season and has only 1 goal and 2 assists. No mights or maybes about it, Valencia has been dire, so at what point does a rational man decide that maybe Zaha is worth giving a chance ahead of him?

Or do we give Valencia another 1146 minutes, see if that works? Whats that definition of insanity again...

If Moyes doesn't think Zaha should play then he he shouldn't play. Same for Fabio.

Valencia not playing well is not a reason to play Zaha if Moyes thinks Zaha would be worse.

The_Kew_Tour

Disgusted to hear about the Andy Cole story.

kryogen

beno619 wrote: »

Was Zaha not our best player in pre season along with Adnan ?

Moyes may not fancy him but tbh he has made lots of mistakes since taking over from fergie.
It's not unthinkable that freezing out certain players and his use of kagawa have been mistakes.

No he was rubbish in pre season (na, rubbish is too strong, he showed exactly how raw he is while also displaying his potential)

Since the day he was signed and we all started paying more attention to him I am pretty sure everyone has seen how raw he still is and its not a stretch to think he is not ready for first team football when we are under so much pressure.

The inclusion of Adnan, who was very good in pre season shows that Moyes does not hold youth back, he is a lot younger then Zaha in fact.

If you want to talk about freezing out players lets talk about Rooney and Nani getting frozen out under Fergie

You wanna talk about misuse of Kagawa we can also talk about Fergie and how he did that too

RobertKK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Disgusted to hear about the Andy Cole story.

Had to google it, yeah that is disgusting, racial abuse has no place in society.

bucketybuck

DM-ICE wrote: »

If Moyes doesn't think Zaha should play then he he shouldn't play. Same for Fabio.

Valencia not playing well is not a reason to play Zaha if Moyes thinks Zaha would be worse.

Moyes repeatedly and continually playing footballers who are not playing well is rather a reason to doubt his judgement, would you not agree?

RobertKK

Maybe I am wrong (probably am) but is Valencia played a lot because Moyes sees him as being a better defensive option when the team is under pressure, which is like every match it seems, than say playing Zaha, and he feels Valencia can do two jobs and a player like Zaha, only one and he doesn't do enough defensively?

DM_7

bucketybuck wrote: »

Moyes repeatedly and continually playing footballers who are not playing well is rather a reason to doubt his judgement, would you not agree?

I would if I thought he had better players who he wasn't playing. I am not sure Zaha fits into that category.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Just when is he supposed to have shown this nothing? He has had 30 minutes actual playing time in the league this season, just how the hell is he supposed to show anything?

The thing is, Zaha might play a run of games and be absolutely useless. Thats a maybe. Whats not a maybe is that Valencia has played 1146 mins of Premier league action this season and has only 1 goal and 2 assists. No mights or maybes about it, Valencia has been dire, so at what point does a rational man decide that maybe Zaha is worth giving a chance ahead of him?

Or do we give Valencia another 1146 minutes, see if that works? Whats that definition of insanity again...

Why are you bringing Valencia into it? I haven't mentioned him once

As I said, if we were in more comfortable positions in games im sure he would have seen more game time, we haven't been and as I said, he has not shown enough to include him. The best thing for Zaha would have been to stay at Palace this season in the Premier League, he would have played regularly and gotten the experience of the league.

The only reason you want him included is because Valencia has been ****e says a lot actually, what have you seen from him in training or the reserves or his minutes on the pitch in the league, his game in the community shield or anywhere else you like specifically that you think he should be playing consistently?

Jan has forced his way into the team on merit, Zaha has not, he isn't the only one. I think with the inclusion of players like Jan and the injuries we have had along with the defensive fragility shown it would be pretty foolish for Moyes to include another youngster who isn't exactly great at tracking back and defending.

Its bad enough carrying Jan, the only advantage Valencia actually had was that he was reliable to put in a shift defensively also, that is disappearing from him game now, soon all that will be left is, experience.

You want to play games with a front 6 of

Zaha

---

Cleverley

---

Giggs/Jones

---

Jan

---

Rooney

---

Welbeck/RVP

---

You would want some seriously solid full backs and defence in general

On one side we have Evra, not exactly lighting it up defensively is he? On the other we have Rafael who cant seem to stay fit for 3 games at a time so no consistency on that side, a different full back every couple of games generally. The centre of defence was getting switched constantly, now we seem to have a bit of consistency but lo and behold, an injury and Smalling is moved again and a new partnership at the back is formed

Cleverley isn't the strongest defensively either and while Jones provides a good shield for the defence he has been playing cb more this season due to injury there. Now he is injured too.

Honestly, just think about stuff for a while, the bigger picture, its not always just about Valencia is **** anyone is better, anyone may be better at attacking then him, but will just anyone be able to provide cover for his full back when the team is under the cosh?

The team is going through a very rough period right now, there are reasons for why Zaha may not be getting games at the moment that don't include, Moyes just doesn't fancy him/is freezing him out.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Moyes repeatedly and continually playing footballers who are not playing well is rather a reason to doubt his judgement, would you not agree?

Did Valencia not play at all last year under Fergie?

Has Evra not played at all the last few seasons?

Did Buttner just get signed this year?

bucketybuck

RobertKK wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong (probably am) but is Valencia played a lot because Moyes sees him as being a better defensive option when the team is under pressure, which is like every match it seems, than say playing Zaha, and he feels Valencia can do two jobs and a player like Zaha, only one and he doesn't do enough defensively?

But Valencia isn't doing two jobs, he has failed miserably at the attacking job that wingers at Manchester United used to be tasked with. Not only that, but he has even been weak defensively, was it the City game where he was badly at fault for a goal?

Anyway, the point is that we don't know if Zaha is good enough defensively for Moyes and his park the bus at Old Trafford tactics, and we won't ever know unless he plays more than 23 minutes in the same match.

Moyes thinks he isn't, but then Moyes prefers Valencia to Nani also, thats Moyes for you.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

Did Valencia not play at all last year under Fergie?

Has Evra not played at all the last few seasons?

Did Buttner just get signed this year?

What has that got to do with anything? Do you think I was shy about criticising Fergie or something?

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

But Valencia isn't doing two jobs, he has failed miserably at the attacking job that wingers at Manchester United used to be tasked with. Not only that, but he has even been weak defensively, was it the City game where he was badly at fault for a goal?

Anyway, the point is that we don't know if Zaha is good enough defensively for Moyes and his park the bus at Old Trafford tactics, and we won't ever know unless he plays more than 23 minutes in the same match.

Moyes thinks he isn't, but then Moyes prefers Valencia to Nani also, thats Moyes for you.

Sweet suffering Jesus

Fergie also preferred Valencia to Nani, did that tell you all you needed to know about Fergie?

YOU may not know whether Zaha is good enough defensively but I would imagine the fella who see's him in training every day of the week probably has a good idea

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

The only reason you want him included is because Valencia has been ****e says a lot actually, what have you seen from him in training or the reserves or his minutes on the pitch in the league, his game in the community shield or anywhere else you like specifically that you think he should be playing consistently?

Its not some strange thing to want a player who has been utter ****e replaced with one of our other options.

kryogen wrote: »

You want to play games with a front 6 of

Zaha

---

Cleverley

---

Giggs/Jones

---

Jan

---

Rooney

---

Welbeck/RVP

---

Not true. I would never pick Cleverley...:pac:

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

What has that got to do with anything? Do you think I was shy about criticising Fergie or something?

What has it got to do with anything! So you don't see the lunacy in the argument you are trying to make.

No problem.

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Its not some strange thing to want a player who has been utter ****e replaced with one of our other options.


Not true. I would never pick Cleverley...:pac:

Im not gonna bother going in depth on this one as its clear ill be wasting my time

So shortly

Giggs was ****e, he got replaced the other day
Ando got a chance, was ****e, was replaced

Two examples of Moyes replacing underperforming players

You would never pick Cleverley? Ok, so who would be playing for you this season in the United midfield with the options you have fit?

RobertKK

bucketybuck wrote: »

But Valencia isn't doing two jobs, he has failed miserably at the attacking job that wingers at Manchester United used to be tasked with. Not only that, but he has even been weak defensively, was it the City game where he was badly at fault for a goal?

Anyway, the point is that we don't know if Zaha is good enough defensively for Moyes and his park the bus at Old Trafford tactics, and we won't ever know unless he plays more than 23 minutes in the same match.

Moyes thinks he isn't, but then Moyes prefers Valencia to Nani also, thats Moyes for you.

When United strengthen midfield, are more secure in defense, which will make attacking easier, then I think Zaha will get a chance.

Lets face it, the reality is Moyes doesn't have great options a the moment, it is why he will be likely spending in January and maybe spending big if he can get who he wants.
The whole team is compromised at the moment, from a weak midfield, a defense you wouldn't put your life on, and upto recently we had an attack where if Rooney did not score it was bad news, things have been slightly more positive in that area recently.
If Moyes feels Zaha can't do the job he wants and feels Valencia is and has when he compares them, then Moyes is right to pick the player who he feels is best.
If he picks players based on what the fans like and he feels inside it is wrong then he is a compromised manager and ultimately a bad manager.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

What has it got to do with anything! So you don't see the lunacy in the argument you are trying to make.

No problem.

You have twice now mentioned Fergie when it has nothing to do with what I had said regarding the non-selection of Wilifred Zaha. So yes, what the **** does it have to do with anything?

You know what, you are arguing against what you think I said rather than what I actually said. I suggest stepping back for ten minutes.

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Since the day he was signed and we all started paying more attention to him I am pretty sure everyone has seen how raw he still is and its not a stretch to think he is not ready for first team football when we are under so much pressure.

The inclusion of Adnan, who was very good in pre season shows that Moyes does not hold youth back, he is a lot younger then Zaha in fact.

If you want to talk about freezing out players lets talk about Rooney and Nani getting frozen out under Fergie

You wanna talk about misuse of Kagawa we can also talk about Fergie and how he did that too

Can't really comment on pre season.

He was the best player in the championship last year I think ?

I agree on Nani being left out by Fergie bieng very frustrating, but from my memory Rooneys form and fitness dropped before Fergie "misused" him.

Fergie left him out of the first 2nd leg vs Madrid and Welbeck fully justified his inclusion and vindicated Fergies selection.

Fergie used Kagawa way better, he played behind RVP at the start of the season and the football was flowing. Kagawa was very effective under Fergie.

On Adnan. If anything he has carried senior players this year not the other way around.

Most of Moyes team selections this year have been appalling so I don't know why the mention of Zaha and Fabio causes such outrage .

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

You have twice now mentioned Fergie when it has nothing to do with what I had said regarding the non-selection of Wilifred Zaha. So yes, what the **** does it have to do with anything?

You know what, you are arguing against what you think I said rather than what I actually said. I suggest stepping back for ten minutes.

You are unable to back your argument up it seems.

You want to stop?

Let me ask you one simple question

Do you think you know more about the player performances in the United squad, day in day out, then the manager?

If you answer yes, well, that will be interesting

If your answer is no, then consider that maybe its possible that the player in question is simply not showing enough to be included. Think that the evidence that is on hand suggests that if you are good enough you will get your playing time