Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

edgecutter

Devil08 wrote: »

More idiots calling for Moyes out. Get a god damn grip!! Go follow city or spurs or Chelsea if you want the club to turn into a managerial merry go round.
Moyes needs time, Utd will give him time. Personally I'd give him 2 seasons before judging him. He needs a few transfer windows to put his own stamp on things.

Yes I would agree with you if we seen some positives from him, in this case there are very little.
This side won the title at a canter and had the beating of Madrid, yet they look nowhere near a top 4 side. Why is that?

tallaghtmick

Devil08 wrote: »

More idiots calling for Moyes out. Get a god damn grip!! Go follow city or spurs or Chelsea if you want the club to turn into a managerial merry go round.
Moyes needs time, Utd will give him time. Personally I'd give him 2 seasons before judging him. He needs a few transfer windows to put his own stamp on things.

Oh look its the real fan brigade here to tell us to support other teams.

bucketybuck

manutd wrote: »

Plus he cost us the second goal.

Pathetic isn't it.

irishfeen

GSPfan wrote: »

If no one comes in in this transfer window then Moyes has made his own bed. And if the season ends a disaster he has no one to blame.

I guarantee you Moyes will still be manager of Manchester United this time next year if Alex and Charlton are still involved - this is Ferguson's appointment ... he will succeed.

Courtesy Flush

If Moyes was sacked who would replace him ?

kryogen

Headshot wrote: »

I really hate that argument. Its just a pathetic argument.

"Needs time"
What a load of rubbish. What right had he to manage utd in the first place? What has he brought to utd bar lobbing the ball in from any angle? The man has stone age tactics and awful team selection.

The man is so out of his comfort zone its not even funny.

He sure is, but he can learn, either he will change or he will be gone, but it wont be happening any time soon so its better for your mental health if you accept that.

tallaghtmick

Devil08 wrote: »

Your not a fan. Don't call yourself one

**** off with that ****, we can have whatever opinion we want, the likes of you and your fake fan bollox is who I would call "the idiots"

PhlegmyMoses

I don't think Moyes did a whole pile wrong tactically today. I wouldn't pick Valencia but he was the only real change I would have made to the starting XI given the players available.

From 60 mins on he really went for it and made the right subs. We looked better but shipped a goal due to defensive errors.

We're being let down by players that should know better. Evra was missing for both goals and both came down his side with him trotting back out of position. Valencia lacks finesse in the final 3rd. Roasted Rose in the first half but gave possession back to Spurs every time with terrible crosses. Cleverley is not what we require at this level.

I'd be giving Moyes my backing to start replacing some of these players.

kryogen

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Oh look its the real fan brigade here to tell us to support other teams.

Lads, we all want the same thing. Emotions are running high after that but lets not start eating each other alive

jamaamaj

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

If Moyes was sacked who would replace him ?

AVB anyone?

n32

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

You could say something similar about Inter Milan a few years ago.They won the treble and the following season they were brutal.
They overachieved and the following season they were burnt out .

Ferguson worked a minor miracle winning the league last season and he was aided by Man City and Chelsea imploding.
The United squad has been in decline for a number of seasons,the owners wont spend the money required to bring in truly top quality players and have been buying too many average players.

Its not Moyes fault that Ferguson left him with a creaking defence ,useless wingers and no decent central midfielder.

Thats a fair point but its not as if he didnt know what he was getting himself into. Even an armchair fan could see the team needed surgery. Since 2010 we ve had midfield problems and ageing defenders. Why didnt he try to remedy the situation? he had all summer and we were reduced to buying Fellaini at the last minute. I d love to know what went on in the club all summer. Is it possible the GLazers wanted a manager who would be so happy to get the job that he would eat **** from them and not rock the boat? Jesus, I m starting to sound the tinfoil hat brigade in the match thread now! Time to hibernate

tallaghtmick

kryogen wrote: »

Lads, we all want the same thing. Emotions are running high after that but lets not start eating each other alive

Dunno kryo you're looking tasty :pac:

Headshot

I would be very worried to give him an open wallet in Jan because it could open a can or worms for us. I personally cant trust a man that brought in an average player like Fell to utd

irishfeen

manutd wrote: »

Plus he cost us the second goal.

That is a truly amazing statistic - for all the wrong reasons

titan18

Tbf, as long as people continue to turn up and support the club, Moyes won't be sacked. Only way the fans can force the Glazers into the decision is to show it, no amount of moaning on the internet will do anything provided people still show support and give them money

Headshot

Im listening to him in the after the match interview and bloody hell want nonsense from him.

irishfeen

Headshot wrote: »

I would be very worried to give him an open wallet in Jan because it could open a can or worms for us. I personally cant trust a man that brought in an average player like Fell to utd

The man was a revelation at Everton on a tiny budget ...

Lord TSC

jamaamaj wrote: »

AVB anyone?

Before he got the boot from Spurs, I would have liked that. But it's too soon after his last sacking.

wadacrack

Moyes is cracking. The interview is evidence of this. We played very well. We didnt play really well

xtal191

Headshot wrote: »

Im listening to him in the after the match interview and bloody hell want nonsense from him.

What was he saying?

n32

irishfeen wrote: »

That is a truly amazing statistic - for all the wrong reasons

At one stage in the first half he drilled a cross waist high toward the penalty spot. Pele couldnt do anything with that type of cross.

Oregano_State

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Really? Smalling at RB instead of Fabio and Valencia at RB both goals conceded from that position.

When's the last time Fabio played? How do you know he deserves a start? Maybe he's been poor in training or carrying a niggle.

If he is 100% fit I would like to see fabio played, but today wasn't the day to throw him into the deep end out of nowhere. I agree Valencia is a **** RB, but Smalling isn't great either.

Final Question: Do you really think Fabio would have beaten Adebayor in the air for the first goal?

You're clutching at straws man.

super_furry

Bizarre interview from Moyes. If that's genuinely how he saw the game United are in massive trouble.

LiamoSail

Headshot wrote: »

I really hate that argument. Its just a pathetic argument.

"Needs time"
What a load of rubbish. What right had he to manage utd in the first place?

Every right. Moyes served his time the traditional way, working his way up to the point where the man who knows the united job better then anyone recommended him as his successor. He may or may not work out, but he had every right to get the job in the first place

xtal191

This is just terrible

irishfeen

n32 wrote: »

At one stage in the first half he drilled a cross waist high toward the penalty spot. Pele couldnt do anything with that type of cross.

Yeah I was just scratching my head watching it ... needs to be shown the door.

ician

jamaamaj wrote: »

AVB anyone?

lol

Rayne Wooney

The way we attack is beyond terrible. We get the ball to the wings, pack everyone in the box and cross it in, then repeat it all over again. We have no plan B, actually we do have a plan B and that's to throw as many forwards on as possible if the crossing doesn't work and Moyes initiated plan B tonight.

That kind of play was beginning to grow old last season, you could see it in the games when we came up against a good defence who cleared the ball easily. Other teams are adapting and leaving us behind with our Stone Age tactics.

Look at Liverpool this season, they mix their attack up, they can break down a defence with quick passing and be devastating on the counter, hopeful crossing seems to be a last resort for them which is so so right. Do they constantly fire the ball in at Suarez like we were doing when RVP was fit?


And I'd like to say, tonight was a perfect example of why Rooney shouldn't be playing in the number 10 position, he created absolutely nothing.


Not only do we need major investment but Moyes needs to seriously cop on with his tactics, no way can he look over the last 20 league games and be happy with the direction he's bringing the club in.

Now I'm not solely blaming Moyes because we've played the same way for years now, but he needs to grow a backbone and move on from the way Fergie played and go watch Bayern/Barca/Dortmund or even City/Arsenal/Liverpool in our own league to see the way United play isn't up to scratch.

tallaghtmick

Oregano_State wrote: »

When's the last time Fabio played? How do you know he deserves a start? Maybe he's been poor in training or carrying a niggle.

If he is 100% fit I would like to see fabio played, but today wasn't the day to throw him into the deep end out of nowhere. I agree Valencia is a **** RB, but Smalling isn't great either.

Final Question: Do you really think Fabio would have beaten Adebayor in the air for the first goal?

You're clutching at straws man.

Hes been on the bench most games so hes fit, height difference yes but as a natural full back he would gotten ahead of Adebayor and at least tried! Smalling done **** all.

irishfeen

super_furry wrote: »

Bizarre interview from Moyes. If that's genuinely how he saw the game United are in massive trouble.

What did you expect him to say? ... Alex was always the same- protect and back your players no matter what, keep everything inside the dressing room.

beno619

Oregano_State wrote: »

When's the last time Fabio played? How do you know he deserves a start? Maybe he's been poor in training or carrying a niggle.

If he is 100% fit I would like to see fabio played, but today wasn't the day to throw him into the deep end out of nowhere. I agree Valencia is a **** RB, but Smalling isn't great either.

Final Question: Do you really think Fabio would have beaten Adebayor in the air for the first goal?

You're clutching at straws man.

Fabio should have been playing since rafa got injured, smalling was out of position.

If Fabio for outjumped fair enough nobody would be complaining.

Hank Scorpio

ician wrote: »

lol

Agreed, playing a high line with Vidic Evra etc would work out wonderfully

kryogen

Headshot wrote: »

I would be very worried to give him an open wallet in Jan because it could open a can or worms for us. I personally cant trust a man that brought in an average player like Fell to utd

Think about that for a while, then think about the many, many average players our previous manager brought to the club.

Did you still put your trust in him?

I feel the same about Moyes, never wanted him, didn't think he was the right appointment, but I cant put the blame for everything soley on him.

kryogen

irishfeen wrote: »

That is a truly amazing statistic - for all the wrong reasons

Was actually worse in the first half if you can believe it, 12 attempts, 0 successful

Pudsy33

The difference between us and the other teams (City, Chelsea and Dare I say it Liverpool) is that they don't panic and hoof the ball forward. They build from the back and move the opposition around. There was an embarrassing amount off hoofball, which is unacceptable for a team with Rooney, Januzaj, Kagawa, Carrick at their disposable, among others. I just have absolutely no belief that the players will create anything. I know they're good players, so something must be going wrong tactically. For me it's that glaring hole in midfield that Cleverly supposedly occupied. He was ****ing useless as usual.

Rant over.

Headshot

LiamoSail wrote: »

Every right. Moyes served his time the traditional way, working his way up to the point where the man who knows the united job better then anyone recommended him as his successor. He may or may not work out, but he had every right to get the job in the first place

lol ya every right all right. He has served his time at a small club that has won **** all, played rubbish (compared to the great stuff they are playing now) no European experience. I could go on...

He had no right to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world. No right what so ever.

Oregano_State

The main problem is CM. Carrick is not playing as well as he did last season, and Cleverly is not good enough to be starting for us against big teams. There were plenty of times today when there was a giant hole in front of the Spurs box as we attacked on the wing.

With a better CM we would be able to create more through the middle.

The defensive problems are being exposed partially because of the midfield issue, but Evra needs the boot, and Rafael needs to stay fit.

I don't think Moyes did much wrong today. The first 11 needs a good 50mill of investment.

wonderfullife

kryogen wrote: »

For the first time this season I have come to realise that we are going to be in a real fight for 4th spot.

The manager wants them to play ****e football? **** him, they should play how they know they can. Whats happening out there clearly isn't working. How many more times before something is changed?

Ill digest this for the night, Ill try to focus on the positives (there were a couple) but I will for the first time consider the possibility that the club may not finish top 4 this year. Surely not?

Honestly this is the FIRST time you've considered it this season?

I admire your optimism.

All season this has been a pale shadow of the Manchester United of the SAF era.

Most damning is they are even a pale shadow of themselves from last season - where lets be real, they won the title at a canter playing consistent football but no more than that. There were very few standout performances last year that made you sit up and think this United side is a vintage crop amongst United sides.

Devil08 wrote: »

More idiots calling for Moyes out. Get a god damn grip!! Go follow city or spurs or Chelsea if you want the club to turn into a managerial merry go round.
Moyes needs time, Utd will give him time. Personally I'd give him 2 seasons before judging him. He needs a few transfer windows to put his own stamp on things.

There were plenty of "idiots" predicting a massive recession during the boom period in Ireland but they were dismissed as begrudgers and all sorts.

Sometimes it's far easier to call a spade a spade. On the evidence of 20 games (which is a fair yardstick to judge one thing - progress) Moyes is not the man for the position.

If it makes you feel better that you are one of the loyal, clever people who want to give Moyes time and feel it's easier to slate those calling for his head, then that's great.

But don't slag people off for their opinions when, in truth, their opinions are based on evidence. Over the course of the season to date United are on a downward trajectory under Moyes.

Equally you could take a 2-club view on this situation: Moyes leaves Everton for Man United. Everton are clearly, 100% on an upward curve under Martinez. United are clearly, 100% on a downward curve under Moyes. If that's a huge coincidence, fair enough, but right now it doesn't look like one.

This isn't about right and wrong. It's about opinions. But to call people idiots for holding a very valid opinion is very foolish in the least.

Calling a spade a spade isn't always going to be popular. It was universally agreed that a) SAF was a genius and b) Moyes would need time to put his own stamp on the club.

And i'm sure a lot of fair minded fans can accept being behind City and Chelsea after 20 games.....But to be ELEVEN points behind Arsenal and FIVE behind Liverpool with the Championship winning squad in-tact? It's not as if Arsenal and Liverpool went out on a £200m spending spree this summer. Arsenal got Ozil who's done well in patches, Liverpool held on to Suarez who is a machine. Otherwise all 3 squads are very similar from last season.

On top of all that, United STILL have away fixtures to come this season at the Emirates, the Bridge, at Goodison........

Top 4 may happen. It easily could. But the evidence in front of you suggests it probably won't. Hey though, predicting a likely event doesn't tend to go down well does it!

beno619

I understand people want to defend Moyes but.

The line that he needs time is getting very old, he's just doing a bad job.

Sherwood, Martinez, mourinho, PellegrinI,Pulis all new managers who have instantly settled into their new clubs.

He should have time but he needs to be called out for his awful management of the team,selections,transfers, pre and post match interviews.

kryogen

A friend came up with a name for Clev during the game that I actually think fits quite well

He was calling him, Mr Invisible, I pointed out he was seeing a good bit of the ball

He thought for a second, came back at me with, OK then, Mr Inanimate!

Tough to argue with

Headshot

kryogen wrote: »

Think about that for a while, then think about the many, many average players our previous manager brought to the club.

Did you still put your trust in him?

I feel the same about Moyes, never wanted him, didn't think he was the right appointment, but I cant put the blame for everything soley on him.

Those average players won us the PL last season, I personally believe alot of them are playing below par. Yes on the grand scheme of things they shouldn't be starting and should be only squad players but I just believe they arent playing to their best at the moment.

As Iv always said if any other manager worth their salt, had a proper C.V and had this awful start with utd, I would be totally behind the manager because they have history of winning and will come good.

LiamoSail

Headshot wrote: »

lol ya every right all right. He has served his time at a small club that has won **** all, played rubbish (compared to the great stuff they are playing now) no European experience. I could go on...

He had no right to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world. No right what so ever.

So being recommended by ferguson doesn't give him the right? Not only the most successful manager in the game, but the man who knows the job better then anyone else?

I'm not saying he was the right man, but on the recommendation from ferguson he had more right then anyone.

n32

kryogen wrote: »

A friend came up with a name for Clev during the game that I actually think fits quite well

He was calling him, Mr Invisible, I pointed out he was seeing a good bit of the ball

He thought for a second, came back at me with, OK then, Mr Inanimate!

Tough to argue with

Headshot

LiamoSail wrote: »

So being recommended by ferguson doesn't give him the right? Not only the most successful manager in the game, but the man who knows the job better then anyone else?

I'm not saying he was the right man, but on the recommendation from ferguson he had more right then anyone.

Nope not for me. Fergie has made plenty of mistakes in his utd career and for me he has made another.

Lord TSC

I love that in the same argument, it can be put forward that Fergie mucked up in team building over the last few years but at the same time is apparently infallible in his choice of manager.

gosplan

Moyes gets such a hard time.

Last season Fergie lost to Spurs at OT and gained a few points through Young diving.

There was also very little pressure on the players for most of the year.

The year before his team imploded.

Apart from RVP, the owners have never shelled out for a world class established player.

wadacrack

The thing that worrys me is that is how united are playing. Very rigid lack of movement. Passing in the final third is very slow. Not really a counter attacking team. Controlling the temp is one thing but in the final third it has to be quicker. Evra also is a great personality but he is just not good enough. the days we had wingers of great technical ability down through the years..Valencia is a one trick pony who has been found out

Hococop

disappointed with the loss, i knew this season was going to be alot more difficult but i did not see it playing out this way, problem is with this transfer window is all the rumours of koke, reus etc, its going to be difficult to get these players to leave with the CL club commitment, personally i can see anderson, maybe nani, a few weeks ago i said young would be gone but his form has improved so moyes could hold on to him.

UDAWINNER

We won't get 4th as we've been appalling against top half oppostion and this will force the Glazers to sack Moyes and hire a manager who will address the issues we have in defence and midfield and not buy some middle of the road player he managed for 30m+

kryogen

Headshot wrote: »

Those average players won us the PL last season, I personally believe alot of them are playing below par. Yes on the grand scheme of things they shouldn't be starting and should be only squad players but I just believe they arent playing to their best at the moment.

As Iv always said if any other manager worth their salt, had a proper C.V and had this awful start with utd, I would be totally behind the manager because they have history of winning and will come good.

Im not specifically referring to the current squad (with the exception of Bebe) players like Djemba Djemba, Poborsky, Cryuff, Milne, Miller, Kleberson, Obertan, Blanc (great player in his day, not so much when he signed for United) Bellion, Prunier, Taibi, Carroll etc etc etc

The players are letting the fans and the manager down also, the injuries have to be having an impact also, in tight games last year we got bailed out by a moment of brilliance from RVP, we haven't had that this year. Hernandez could have had a hattrick tonight but he couldn't control a ball!