Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Nalz

Headshot wrote: »

I personally cant trust a man that brought in an average player like Fell to utd

This has been unfairly overused. Criticize Moyes on tactics, results, interviews, lack of other signings etc.... you' be on the money or close to it but I wouldn't call Fellaini average.

The transfer itself was a bit of a farce, 11th hour and overpriced - again I'll give you that.

He's a proven Prem League player that's part of a very good Belgium side. He tore us apart once or twice when playing for Everton. Fergie bought plenty of average\poor players - we don't need to list them!

LiamoSail

Headshot wrote: »

Nope not for me. Fergie has made plenty of mistakes in his utd career and for me he has made another.

It may be a mistake, but if not Ferguson, who should have chose the replacement? Woodward? Glazier?

Someone has to, and while ferguson is far from infallible, he was still best placed to make a recommendation

Courtesy Flush

Get RVP back and ye should be ok

Montroseee

Valencia's performance today was as bad as Bebe's vs Wolves. Cleverly needs to be shipped out, so far out of his depth - Wigan or a lower end prem team is his level. Watched this match with an Arsenal fan and he could really sympathise with our problem - far too many players pulling on the shirt that are nowhere near the standard required, comparable to when the likes of Djourou, Eboue and Fabianski were starting for them. The squad left to Moyes was and still is in bad shape, Fergie seemed to get one last hurrah out of players like Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic etc. There needs to be serious investment into the squad in Jan and the Summer. I agree with a previous poster, today was the first day it actually dawned on me that UTD. may miss out on top 4.

kryogen

wonderfullife wrote: »

Honestly this is the FIRST time you've considered it this season?

Yes

And Im sure it will wear off when I think about it some more, not finishing in the top 4 with the squad of players we have is incomprehensible to me tbh

kryogen

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I love that in the same argument, it can be put forward that Fergie mucked up in team building over the last few years but at the same time is apparently infallible in his choice of manager.

He has proven himself in the past to be pretty unreliable when it comes to managers tbh

rob316

Its not going to instantly solve ye're problems but having ferguson sitting in the stands for every game is not helping moyes. At liverpool hodgson had dalglish at the club overshadowing him, its not quite the same but the parallels are similar.

No point debating will he be sacked because ye know he won't.

Arrow.

gosplan wrote: »

The year before his team imploded.

Apart from RVP, the owners have never shelled out for a world class established player.

I think 'imploded' is a bit of an exaggeration.

Fergie usually looked to buying players with the view of them becoming established at Manchester United.

Over the years when Fergie saw fit, he was given the cash.

KH25

That was depressing to watch. We only started to truly create chances when we went 2-0 down. Webb did us no favours but ultimately we cost ourselves the game.

Smalling is not a RB. He's a good CB but he can't really do the job required by our RB. His delivery is poor.

Valencia should not ever be played at RB. He is a winger and being caught out on the break shows that he is not good enough to be played at RB.

Evra has just become a liability at this stage. His defensive abilities have really just disappeared.

We need 2 midfielders, possibly a winger, and definitely a LB. LB is as bad as the midfield situation.

markc91

It's a sad day when Man United are relying on an 18 year old kid to win them points, too many deadwood at the club needs to be shipped out only time will tell if Moyes can bring in the right players!

Royal Legend

Oregano_State wrote: »

The main problem is CM. Carrick is not playing as well as he did last season, and Cleverly is not good enough to be starting for us against big teams. There were plenty of times today when there was a giant hole in front of the Spurs box as we attacked on the wing.

With a better CM we would be able to create more through the middle.

The defensive problems are being exposed partially because of the midfield issue, but Evra needs the boot, and Rafael needs to stay fit.

I don't think Moyes did much wrong today. The first 11 needs a good 50mill of investment.

Seriously, would you trust Moyes to spend £50m properly? Even if he signed Messi he mess him up with his negative tactics.
I look at your possible starting 11 and it is as good as anything in the league bar none, yet the standard of football utd are playing is dire. I think some Utd fans got carried away with recent results, which could have in a couple of cases gone the other way. I felt that if Spurs had a go they had to midfield to over run utd and so they did.
Honest question, but is there a chance that Ferguson was protecting his legacy when he pushed for the appointment of Moyes?

RobertKK

Was listening to the radio before the match, on the sports news after the 5 o clock news on Newstalk, it featured Moyes who talked about how managers at spurs have been supported when it came to bringing in players, and they would be hard to beat.
It seemed like a call out to the Glazers to support him in the incoming and subsequent transfer windows.

nullzero

That was the one game we had to win to start to build momentum. We're out of the picture for the top four unless we win all out remaining games and the sides above us slip up.
We'd be better finnishing out of the Europa league peeves. This season wasn't a disaster until this result. We're too far of the pace.

Arrow.

Royal Legend wrote: »

is there a chance that Ferguson was protecting his legacy when he pushed for the appointment of Moyes?

No offence, that's beyond ridiculous.

Whatever you think about Fergie, do you think he'd want to f*ck up a club he's spent 26 years getting to the pinnacle of club football?

Also, Moyes was put forward by Fergie, so if this was true, he'd be making a fool of himself too.

This is a line trotted out by fans that don't like Fergie. Pure rubbish. Zero substance.

Headshot

kryogen wrote: »

Im not specifically referring to the current squad (with the exception of Bebe) players like Djemba Djemba, Poborsky, Cryuff, Milne, Miller, Kleberson, Obertan, Blanc (great player in his day, not so much when he signed for United) Bellion, Prunier, Taibi, Carroll etc etc etc

The players are letting the fans and the manager down also, the injuries have to be having an impact also, in tight games last year we got bailed out by a moment of brilliance from RVP, we haven't had that this year. Hernandez could have had a hattrick tonight but he couldn't control a ball!

Im not sure what your trying to say Kry regard those lame duck players?

Regarding RVP do you believe (like I do) that Moyes is destroying him by over training him? Its a bit shocking coming from hardly any injuries last season to be a crock again for us.

Trilla wrote: »

This has been unfairly overused. Criticize Moyes on tactics, results, interviews, lack of other signings etc.... you' be on the money or close to it but I wouldn't call Fellaini average.

The transfer itself was a bit of a farce, 11th hour and overpriced - again I'll give you that.

He's a proven Prem League player that's part of a very good Belgium side. He tore us apart once or twice when playing for Everton. Fergie bought plenty of average\poor players - we don't need to list them!

Brad Freidal was always immense against us, should we of tried to sign him? I dont mean to smart Trilla but to judge a player because he played great against us is not the best judgement imo

Everton was his level tbh. Regarding him at Belgium, again Messi before this recent qualifying wc run was poor for Argentina. I just dont much stock into international displays. Club form all day long for me

Fergie could afford to chance buy players because he had a brilliant foundation but fergie didnt pay big money for these players.

LiamoSail

nullzero wrote: »

That was the one game we had to win to start to build momentum. We're out of the picture for the top four unless we win all out remaining games and the sides above us slip up.
We'd be better finnishing out of the Europa league peeves. This season wasn't a disaster until this result. We're too far of the pace.

Winning the rest of your games would give you enough points to win the title in all likelihood, never mind getting the top4

kryogen

Royal Legend wrote: »

Seriously, would you trust Moyes to spend £50m properly? Even if he signed Messi he mess him up with his negative tactics.
I look at your possible starting 11 and it is as good as anything in the league bar none, yet the standard of football utd are playing is dire. I think some Utd fans got carried away with recent results, which could have in a couple of cases gone the other way. I felt that if Spurs had a go they had to midfield to over run utd and so they did.
Honest question, but is there a chance that Ferguson was protecting his legacy when he pushed for the appointment of Moyes?

Yes, I would trust him with money.

He made some very astute additions at Everton and I don't think he messed up Arteta/Cahill/Rooney/Barkley/Rodwell(who people seemed to think was great under Moyes!)

Which fans got carried away by beating the powerhouses of West Ham etc? People are happy to keep momentum going in those games, while acknowledging how poor we were the majority of the time.

Hococop

looking at all the transfer rumours for us, its crazy how much Real Madrid's inflation of bale has overpriced the market, talks of over 40 million pounds for barkley, 20+ million for shaw and many other players

beno619

It's way to early to write of a player that has been carrying an injury.

beno619

Hococop wrote: »

looking at all the transfer rumours for us, its crazy how much Real Madrid's inflation of bale has overpriced the market, talks of over 40 million pounds for barkley, 20+ million for shaw and many other players

Shaw is the best left back in the league and only 18, if he was available for 20+ I'd pray moyes played it .

nullzero

LiamoSail wrote: »

Winning the rest of your games would give you enough points to win the title in all likelihood, never mind getting the top4

I should have qualified that by saying that we have only beaten one of the sides above us this season. We won't beat them all in the return games. Title isn't going to happen.

RobertKK

It is not the result we wanted, it also not the end of the world. It is disappointing.

The result simply reiterates the point that we need new blood brought in, and good signings who can make a difference.

There is a long way still to go.

Gringo180

MELTDOWN ALERT!

Some fans need to give there head a shake calling for Moyes's head. Is that the 1st defeat in 7 games or something??

MisterAnarchy

Hococop wrote: »

looking at all the transfer rumours for us, its crazy how much Real Madrid's inflation of bale has overpriced the market, talks of over 40 million pounds for barkley, 20+ million for shaw and many other players

Those players are British,hence they are always grossly overpriced .

GSPfan

Considering we started off the season on level points with Arsenal and we are now 11 points off them. Surely its possible we end up 20+ points behind them by the end of the season.

LiamoSail

nullzero wrote: »

I should have qualified that by saying that we have only beaten one of the sides above us this season. We won't beat them all in the return games. Title isn't going to happen.

If united are as consistent in the second half of the season against sides below you as you have been against those sort of sides in previous years, you'll get top 4, irrespective of your results against the current top 6

Hank Scorpio

How many teams in the league finish so many games with their top striker playing in a holding midfield position.

January is huge for Moyes, sign some players and qualify for the champions league otherwise the season will be a complete and utter failure.

beno619

Gringo180 wrote: »

MELTDOWN ALERT!

Some fans need to give there head a shake calling for Moyes's head. Is that the 1st defeat in 7 games or something??

Have you looked at the league table recently and who the 6 previous firxtures were against.

While he won't get the sack it's understandable why people are calling for it.

kryogen

beno619 wrote: »

Shaw is the best left back in the league and only 18, if he was available for 20+ I'd pray moyes played it .

Chelsea would outbid us and all signs point to him choosing them.

fozz10

Hococop wrote: »

looking at all the transfer rumours for us, its crazy how much Real Madrid's inflation of bale has overpriced the market, talks of over 40 million pounds for barkley, 20+ million for shaw and many other players

shaw is a chelsea fan, who are playing a r.b there now which is obvious mourhino wants a new one. He wont join united if chelsea come in for him.

adox

Finishing outside the top 4 would be a disaster in more ways than just financially. Instead of wondering who we will sign in the summer we will be worried about who we can hold onto.

Utd really are at a tipping point this season. Finishing 5th or below just doesn't bear thinking about. It's hard to find anything to cling onto to give hope that the second half of the season will be better than the first.

Lord TSC

beno619 wrote: »

Have you looked at the league table recently and who the 6 previous firxtures were against.

It also glosses over the form in those 6 matches. We weren't exactly covering ourselves in glory against the teams we were beating, despite how poor most of them were.

Gringo180

beno619 wrote: »

Have you looked at the league table recently and who the 6 previous firxtures were against.

While he won't get the sack it's understandable why people are calling for it.

He was left with an aging side with too many players in the squad that arent anywhere near Utd class. Ferguson needs to take some flack in the way he left that midfield rot for years. The league is much much stronger this year too. I remember many of Utds wins last year and some performances were even worse than some of Moyes's defeats.

Neeson

Swansea next is it? They played well against a great side today.

ForeverYoung90

The thing I don't understand about this collapse by us is that this is the same squad of players who won the league last year with relative ease.
I was never a big believer of the importance of a top manager.Its the players on the field who win games.
I think its more of a psychological thing that makes us under perform.Moyes/Ferguson I cant understand why a winning team can perform like this.
If Rooney,Carrick,Evra,Nani,Van Persie(when he returns) and co dont up their games then its going to be Europa League football next year.

beno619

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It also glosses over the form in those 6 matches.

I know I think you misinterpreted that comment

J. Marston

Gringo180 wrote: »

MELTDOWN ALERT!

Some fans need to give there head a shake calling for Moyes's head. Is that the 1st defeat in 7 games or something??

Oh golly, our first defeat in seven games. What a excellent job Moyes is doing as manager, he stayed unbeaten for seven games and has only lost 6 games out of 20 in the league and has us in 7th place with no possibility of getting into the Champions League. He's doing great!

The_Kew_Tour

Neeson wrote: »

Swansea next is it? They played well against a great side today.

Play Swansea twice in 6 days. Cup Sunday, League Saturday week. Both at home

Hank Scorpio

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

The thing I don't understand about this collapse by us is that this is the same squad of players who won the league last year with relative ease.

We won the league last year because of RVP, hes been injured for ages. Vidic and Rio were also much better as was Evra. To say its the same group of players isn't entirely true imo

beno619

Gringo180 wrote: »

He was left with an aging side with too many players in the squad that arent anywhere near Utd class. Ferguson needs to take some flack in the way he left that midfield rot for years. The league is much much stronger this year too. I remember many of Utds wins last year and some performances were even worse than some of Moyes's defeats.

All issues that could have been addressed by the current manager.

Moyes is not getting the best out of the current squad.

We were awful at times last season but still won the league.

Lord TSC

You'd think that Moyes only discovered that the squad had grown a year older after the transfer window was shut over the summer...

SlickRic

If Mata has been told he can leave Chelsea, well, he could well transform you lot.

beno619

SlickRic wrote: »

If Mata has been told he can leave Chelsea, well, he could well transform you lot.

Unless he is going to reinvent himself he playes in one of the few positions we are well stocked in.

Drexel

SlickRic wrote: »

If Mata has been told he can leave Chelsea, well, he could well transform you lot.

Rooney going the other way would be the only way that would work. Would ye take that UTD fans? and a bit of dosh as well?

Hococop

SlickRic wrote: »

If Mata has been told he can leave Chelsea, well, he could well transform you lot.

read that rumour there, cant see Chelsea selling him to us unless we trade Rooney or something like that, id say he will go back to spain,

Headshot

SlickRic wrote: »

If Mata has been told he can leave Chelsea, well, he could well transform you lot.

I love Mata but how could be transform us? Where will he fit in the starting lineup?

Lord TSC

jonny666 wrote: »

Rooney going the other way would be the only way that would work. Would ye take that UTD fans? and a bit of dosh as well?

Unless we go and get another player or two, then it's really not going to achieve much.

sReq | uTeK

No rooney has dragged us through the season

Nalz

Headshot wrote: »

Everton was his level tbh

You basing this on the hat full of games he's played in his first season? I'm sure people thought 16m for Carrick was an awful signing and Spurs was his level. Crock Hargreaves, Anderson, Bebe, Veron etc all circumstantial and different situations but cost way more than they should have.

Keeper signings - dear God absolute shíteness. Bosnich, Taibi, Goram, Ricardo, Leighton, not replacing Carroll.

Mal Donaghy, Phelan, Danny Wallace all signed in late 80s and 90s offered little and probably weren't at Uniteds "level".

I'm not trying to compare Fergies signings but Im simply pointing out that large moneys at United was spent on players or a particular position poorly, during times of weakness or pre 90s-00 dominance.

And I hated when Fergie signed players and followed it by saying they played well against us!! Kuschack and Young being examples of such

Right or wrong (surely only time can tell this) I'd give the Fellaini situation more time\games and point out other areas where Moyes has failed or slow to improve.

billyhead

I really fear we will finish outside the champions league positions at the end of the season. We wont solve this crisis in the Jan transfer window as none of the big or more established players will move during this period especially with a world cup on the horizon. The players need a kick in the hole to wake up and Moyes will need to change his tactics for the second half of the season.