Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

master-t

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I reckon boards would explode if Homer and Airbag agreed on something :pac:

Anyway I'd love to see a new LB and CM come in, I still think Fellaini will come good, Kagawa will not make it at utd and should be used as bait for another player.

Absolutely spot on Mick. Used as Bait to snare either Reus or Gundogan off Dortmund.


LB - Has he forgotten Fabio? But either way, Evra is great at attacking, but can't defend. Would like to see the Contreao loan option reopened.


CM - ANYONE. Really......say what you want about his age, but at 29, Sneijder would still offer us something massive to the team and would cost about 12m. He doesn't want to leave apparently.


Reality? We probably won't sign anyone.

Adamcp898

Your Airbag wrote: »

Rio was the best defender in the country when we signed him. Andy Cole was also the best striker in the land when we got him. We have never been shy to go after good players

Our youth system produced some amazing players for us, we are not seeing the same level of talent come through.

Its a testimony to UTD that we were able to operate so well without spending as much as the other clubs but this was Fergies speciality. This may be an ethos now in place at the club and something that could be hurting us.

I don't think its fair to impose a strategy like this on the new manager. I don't think Jose or anyone else could have done it like Fergie did. Give Jose millions and you'll see results. Moyes needs the biggest checkbook in years because of the unaddresses areas let slip into mediocrity.

It doesn't matter if we're shy to go after them or not, it's about getting them.

And the fact is it's far far from laughable to say we'll struggle to attract them when we weren't doing it to begin with, nevermind now.

homerjay2005

With City likely to be in the league cup final, does this mean the runners up get the Europa league spot or would it go to 6th place in the league?

if we miss out on the CL, not sure if we are better off missing out on Europa league also, as teams who go into this have a poor record on Sundays.

The only beneficial factor is the tv and gate money we would receive. a decent campaign of 8-12 games would soak up about £15million of the money lost due to CL Football surely.

spiralism

Oregano_State wrote: »

Chelsea were out for a season or two and went straight back in.

I would imagine that if we didn't make top four the Glazers would have the sense to reinvest heavily in order to guarantee it the following season. The champions league is where the money is at.

For one season and winning the Champions league in that spell may have helped somewhat.

I don't know will they, and even if they do Moyes and Woodward have been totally inept in their transfer dealings so far. Chances are far more likely that if we finish outside the top 4, Rooney is off to Chelsea than us signing a big name player or two to get back in. Couple that with the fact that Chelsea and City would pay better and offer european football, we'd only feed off what they didn't want.

The_Kew_Tour

homer and Mitch for past few years have been clear that the club needed to spend and get right players.

I remember at times they were given harsh times.

they have been proven right, sadly.

this team has been begging for investment ever since our CL final defeat humiliation in 2011. We just let it wait and wait and now we are in real serious trouble.

Leftist

rob316 wrote: »

The key thing is investment, Liverpool went into further decline in 09 as our leech owners stripped the team instead of investing. Time for the glazers to put up or shut up.

didn't youse spend about 50m + in a winter transfer window in 2011ish?

liverpool not having funds is about as credible as moyes not having the funds. he's utterly hopeless and needs to be gone.

DM_7

Its rare enough to see established big name players (in favour) leave for another club unless its Real Madrid. As pointed out by others, United realistically need to go after players in the 20/24 age group that are already good with potential to be even better. Like the De Gea signing.

5starpool

homerjay2005 wrote: »

With City likely to be in the league cup final, does this mean the runners up get the Europa league spot or would it go to 6th place in the league?

if we miss out on the CL, not sure if we are better off missing out on Europa league also, as teams who go into this have a poor record on Sundays.

The only beneficial factor is the tv and gate money we would receive. a decent campaign of 8-12 games would soak up about £15million of the money lost due to CL Football surely.

If the winners of the League cup has qualified for Europe through the league or the FA Cup the LC spot goes to 6th in the league. The runner up gets the spot in the FA cup (if they haven't already qualified), but not in the LC.

homerjay2005

master-t wrote: »

Reality? We probably won't sign anyone.

yesterdays loss means this is now not an option, one win against the top 8 in 8 games, just is not acceptable and shows no sign of changing. we need players in or we are f*cked.

the fear i have is that the work hasnt been done as Moyes and Woodward were hoping to arrive in January in top 4 position and then, with a few players to come back, not need to invest.

5starpool

Leftist wrote: »

didn't youse spend about 50m + in a winter transfer window in 2011ish?

liverpool not having funds is about as credible as moyes not having the funds. he's utterly hopeless and needs to be gone.

H+G were forced out in Oct 2010, then in 2011 we signed Carroll + Suarez for 60m, but sold Torres and Babel for almost the same amount.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes to an extent, but Ferguson did splash over £100million just before he retired and paid obscene money for some average players in the last 5 or 6 years and beyond this.

for even RVP there is a Bebe, a Bellion or a Djemba Djemba. for every youth player we brought through, we signed a Buttner or Tosic and so on.

Nani, Anderson, Young, Valencia who are 4 of the players getting so much stick at the moment, cost almost £70million.....add in Jones, Smalling, Carrick, DDG, Kagawa, and some more like Vidic, hernandez and Evra of the current squad and we are approaching another £100million on top of that.

and thats before we even talk about the other £80million+ that we spent on RVP, Rooney and Rio. the current squad cost about £275 +million and while it did give us good success, several players in it perhaps are not good enough for the club and we severely overpaid for them.

100m on some average players is correct. Thats why we need a big spending window or two. Make 40 or 50m in sales to help. Val was Ronnies replacement. Young instead of a MF, Kagawa is looking like a weird one as we seem to be trying to convert him into a winger, Owen in too, some weird ones there which are coming back to haunt us. DDG and RVP were our last two solids signings.

275m is I would say low in total squad cost compared to other top teams. We need big investment.

irishfeen

Deleted User wrote: »

Just out of interest, how well could United handle missing out on Europe financially? What is it, £30million would be missed out on without CL football? Missing the EL too (highly unlikely I would've thought) would mean missing about 5 home matches and another £10million or so. The lower league position and all could mean about £50million less income next season, somewhat offset by increased PL income. I don't know what kind of position United are in financially to withstand that while needing to spend on new players.

United are a business - simple as... Best/Worst short/medium/long term plans and scenarios will have already been drawn up. I'm sure we could cope without CL football completely for even a few years but imo it would be a double edge sword for the Glazers not to make substantial transfer funds available.

Have no doubt a successful Man Utd is not just good for us fans but for the Glazers books too, I think Moyes will be given a blank cheque to an extent (not Bale type money) but substantial funds to rebuild the team from the the very beginning again. We have to remember too that Sir Alex always said (if we are to believe) that the Glazers never prevented him from signing players or restricted him from asking for transfer money.

I think we will see Man Utd's transfer record be broken a couple of times in this calender year and we will finally get our "marquee signing" with Ed Woodward coming up thumps - we also have to remember that Woodward will probably have as a professional been very hurt at accusations of him being out of him depth - United have always come good in times of adversary, have no doubt this is another as the club enters unchartered territory but with Moyes in position and Ferguson and Charlton behind the scenes to prevent a City/Chelsea type reaction we will be back sooner rather then later - we have prided ourselves with stability/long term thinking for the last 26 years, no need to change that now.

NTMK

homerjay2005 wrote: »

With City likely to be in the league cup final, does this mean the runners up get the Europa league spot or would it go to 6th place in the league?

if we miss out on the CL, not sure if we are better off missing out on Europa league also, as teams who go into this have a poor record on Sundays.

The only beneficial factor is the tv and gate money we would receive. a decent campaign of 8-12 games would soak up about £15million of the money lost due to CL Football surely.

goes to 6th iirc

15mill is small change tbf compared to what we would lose from not having CL football (sponsors incentives etc.) i would rather not play the EL as its a nightmare of a tournament given the travel

id be shocked if we dont sign 2 players this window. the good news for us is that the league is fairly tight and a decent run of wins will have us back in CL spots. i dont see us catching city though even if we do turn things around

Your Airbag

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

homer and Mitch for past few years have been clear that the club needed to spend and get right players.

I remember at times they were given harsh times.

they have been proven right, sadly.

this team has been begging for investment ever since our CL final defeat humiliation in 2011. We just let it wait and wait and now we are in real serious trouble.

In fairness, almost every poster has said we need the right players the past 3-4 seasons. Its not difficult to see.

The_Kew_Tour

Your Airbag wrote: »

In fairness, almost every poster has said we need the right players the past 3-4 seasons. Its not difficult to see.

not everyone. lot of people were happy past few seasons just with squad. winning leagues and been beaten on goal difference was papering over the cracks that were obvious to some.

Leftist

5starpool wrote: »

H+G were forced out in Oct 2010, then in 2011 we signed Carroll + Suarez for 60m, but sold Torres and Babel for almost the same amount.

that only leaves one season for lack of funding though.

they gave the wrong manager that 60m to spend.

like it was and will be the wrong manager for the glazers to give money to spend.

28m on fellaini for f**k sake.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

homer and Mitch for past few years have been clear that the club needed to spend and get right players.

I remember at times they were given harsh times.

they have been proven right, sadly.

this team has been begging for investment ever since our CL final defeat humiliation in 2011. We just let it wait and wait and now we are in real serious trouble.

Eveyone deep down knew only for Alex running the show the team was regressing rather quickly - remember last year teams used to even overrun us at times in the PL and we used to get out of jail with RVP or Rooney bailing us out with late goals. Things will be put right though, United are literally too big not to be successful in the long term.

Kirby

NTMK wrote: »

the good news for us is that the league is fairly tight and a decent run of wins will have us back in CL spots. i dont see us catching city though even if we do turn things around

City, Chelsea and Arsenal are nailed on for the top 3. I thought City would win it in the summer and they look likely to but even if they don't, that top 3 picks itself.

There is only really one spot up for grabs which means United's form in the second half of the season has to better than Liverpool's, Everton's and Spurs form. Better than all three of them.....not just one or two of them......which I just can't see happening. One of them will carry their form through to the end of the season. I'd be surprised if United managed to pull it off at this stage.

I like Moyes but missing out on top 4 is a sackable offence at a club like United.

Blatter

spiralism wrote: »

We're not going to get players without european football and especially after being reduced to a fraction of our budget because of said lack of european football. Sure when Liverpool fans said similar things about players wanting to join them on their name a few years ago, many of us laughed. Players knew what drove the club was Fergie and signed because they knew they'd win things under him. Players are not going to want to join to play rubbish football under Moyes, finish 7th and not qualify for Europe.

You are not seeing things clearly here. Ok, almost all top players want to win something and play in Europe, that's a given. But the #1 most important thing to most players (and by far) is how much money they make. United have one of the biggest revenue streams in the world and they pay top bracket wages. If you can offer the wages, play in an attractive league and have the financial clout/club resources to look like you could well compete for the title/Europe in the near future, the club will be an attractive proposition to an awful lot of top level players. United will still be that next season, with CL football or without.

And the comparisons with Liverpool are so bizarre, it's like comparing apples with oranges. The major reason for Liverpool's plight in the last 20 odd years is their huge failure in the commercial side of things in the early 90's in comparison to what United were doing, not because they went a season without European football, struggled to attract big names to improve the side and cue a domino effect. It wasn't so much their status that stopped them from signing big players, it was their lack of money. United don't have that problem, or so you would think given the various comments from the manager/CEO /journalists about how much money they have to spend.

spiralism

Imo there's two chances of us signing players this window, slim and none. Players do not want to jeapordise a possible world cup place by moving to a struggling team that plays poor, inexpressive football. That and Moyes & Woodward have not shown any ability to operate in the transfer market with a big club.

master-t

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yesterdays loss means this is now not an option, one win against the top 8 in 8 games, just is not acceptable and shows no sign of changing. we need players in or we are f*cked.

the fear i have is that the work hasnt been done as Moyes and Woodward were hoping to arrive in January in top 4 position and then, with a few players to come back, not need to invest.

Completely agree. The first half of the season has shown the squad for what it is. Average players mixing it with the odd world class talent. We are also in possession of a bunch of players who are now past their peak. Cue SAF exit. In fairness to him, it also shows what a manager he was getting performances out of a bunch of average players like Anderson, Clevs, Young etc.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

not everyone. lot of people were happy past few seasons just with squad. winning leagues and been beaten on goal difference was papering over the cracks that were obvious to some.

To be fair, I would say the majority of posters on this forum have been calling for signings. In fact, just about everyone agrees we need 2 CMs and a LB. There hasn't been much debate around this I don't remember.

irishfeen

Leftist wrote: »

that only leaves one season for lack of funding though.

they gave the wrong manager that 60m to spend.

like it was and will be the wrong manager for the glazers to give money to spend.

28m on fellaini for f**k sake.

IMO Fellaini was basically a very late panic buy - we were in for Bale and a few other but when things went pear shape for Woodward to save face someone had to come in.

The_Kew_Tour

master-t wrote: »

Completely agree. The first half of the season has shown the squad for what it is. Average players mixing it with the odd world class talent. We are also in possession of a bunch of players who are now past their peak. Cue SAF exit. In fairness to him, it also shows what a manager he was getting performances out of a bunch of average players like Anderson, Clevs, Young etc.





To be fair, I would say the majority of posters on this forum have been calling for signings. In fact, just about everyone agrees we need 2 CMs and a LB. There hasn't been much debate around this I don't remember.

this season yes. not the other 2 seasons.

NTMK

Kirby wrote: »

City, Chelsea and Arsenal are nailed on for the top 3. I thought City would win it in the summer and they look likely to but even if they don't, that top 3 picks itself.

There is only really one spot up for grabs which means United's form in the second half of the season has to better than Liverpool's, Everton's and Spurs form. Better than all three of them.....which I just can't see happening. One of them will carry their form through to the end of the season. I'd be surprised if United managed to pull it off at this stage.

I like Moyes but missing out on top 4 is a sackable offence at a club like United.

I think we can catch arsenal but i largely agree with everything you said.

Finishing outside the top 4 isnt a sackable offence if we showed some promise and seemed to be building towards something but we're no

Mitch Connor

I think the need for major squad building is evident to everyone, Moyes/Woodward included.

My worry though is that it has been left so long that we now need far more players, of the right quality, than we can probably buy.

Realistically we need a first choice left back, two central midfielders at a minimum. You are easily looking at 70million to get that done. A winger is probably required too - 25million? We then need to get a backup left back and right back - another 15-20 million on that duo. From what I am reading the club are also strongly looking at centre backs so I'd be surprised if we don't spend there - another 20million plus.

we could easily need to spend near 150million in the next 6 months, to have us competing for the PL and CL (if we are in it) next season.

We have seen City spend that kind of cash, and Chelsea, short term - but do you see United doing it?

Then there is the possibility of RVP wanting out (rumoured) and Rooney now with just 18months on his contract. We could, possibly, need two world class forwards soon enough too.

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

Our youth system produced some amazing players for us, we are not seeing the same level of talent come through

Is this true though? Because our youth system produced the likes of Pogba, Morrison, Wellbeck, Pique, Evans and Rossi in recent years, not to mention a whole host of other current premier league footballers.

Nothing wrong with our youth system from what I see, apart from our manager not making best use of it in recent times (Yes, I'm talking about Pogba...:))

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

In fairness, almost every poster has said we need the right players the past 3-4 seasons.

no, this is not true. wanting to address CM was clearly well documented but the overall quality of our football was being ignored. this was being compensated by other factors (strong defence,brilliance of Nani and Rooney in 2011, brilliance of RVP in 2013, fergie etc etc)

there has been a huge change in attitude towards our players in the past 4 months, something that was never there before. people were denying for the 12 months that RVP papered over cracks and some went hysterical at the notion we were a 1 man team.

irishfeen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think the need for major squad building is evident to everyone, Moyes/Woodward included.

My worry though is that it has been left so long that we now need far more players, of the right quality, than we can probably buy.

Realistically we need a first choice left back, two central midfielders at a minimum. You are easily looking at 70million to get that done. A winger is probably required too - 25million? We then need to get a backup left back and right back - another 15-20 million on that duo. From what I am reading the club are also strongly looking at centre backs so I'd be surprised if we don't spend there - another 20million plus.

we could easily need to spend near 150million in the next 6 months, to have us competing for the PL and CL (if we are in it) next season.

We have seen City spend that kind of cash, and Chelsea, short term - but do you see United doing it?

Then there is the possibility of RVP wanting out (rumoured) and Rooney now with just 18months on his contract. We could, possibly, need two world class forwards soon enough too.

Its simple - it has to be done now to compete at the very top... I think we will try bringing in one or two in January with the cheque book really being thrown opened during a very busy summer transfer window for Moyes and Woodward.

bucketybuck

master-t wrote: »

To be fair, I would say the majority of posters on this forum have been calling for signings. In fact, just about everyone agrees we need 2 CMs and a LB. There hasn't been much debate around this I don't remember.

The difference is that some of us have been calling for those signings for years now, since Barca spanked us around the field, and very often the response was "Sure didn't we win the league and get to the European cup final, we have a great squad blah blah blah".

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

no, this is not true. wanting to address CM was clearly well documented but the overall quality of our football was being ignored. this was being compensated by other factors (strong defence,brilliance of Nani and Rooney in 2011, brilliance of RVP in 2013, fergie etc etc)

there has been a huge change in attitude towards our players in the past 4 months, something that was never there before. people were denying for the 12 months that RVP papered over cracks and some went hysterical at the notion we were a 1 man team.

Totally agree with you mate - that's why I think its totally unfair for people to be calling for Moyes' head already... I honestly don't think many other managers in world football (with the exception of Ferguson) who could win the PL/CL with the quality of players at his disposal.

homerjay2005

realistically looking at the next 12 to 18 months the only players i would consider capable of being top class in their positions and being good enough for first 11 are the following 7 and I include Evans hesitantly.

---

DDG

---

Rafael

---

Evans----CB----LB
Nani

---

CM----CM

---

Adnan

---

RVP

---

Rooney

---

id be happy to see Lindegaard, Carrick, Vidic, Cleverly, Welbeck, Hernandez, Jones, Smalling, Young, Fellaini, Kagawa (if he improves) as the squad players, added to a few young lads. thats 22 senior players which is enough IMO, if we supplement in Lingaard/Powell and one more from the underage ranks.

that means at least 4 first team players are needed to come in, but with the troubles of cover at right back and left back, we are still short there.

With Rio, Evra and Giggs all to retire, and possibly Anderson, Buttner, Fabio all to leave the likes of Valencia, Welbeck, Young, Cleverly will be going nowhere, as that would not only see us needing major investment in the first 11, but also the squad. RVP will need to be replaced sooner or later.

people talk about transition...it has yet to begin i am afraid. its a real f*cking mess.

spiralism

irishfeen wrote: »

Totally agree with you mate - that's why I think its totally unfair for people to be calling for Moyes' head already... I honestly don't think many other managers in world football (with the exception of Ferguson) who could win the PL/CL with the quality of players at his disposal.

Maybe not but they wouldnt have us out of the top 6 with a squad that won the league last year either. At what point do you say enough is enough with the direction we're taking?

This is eerily reminiscent of Hodgson at Liverpool i feel, totally inept performances, bad football, worse in the transfer market, inability to beat big teams and clearly not cut out for the pressure while talking of narrow home defeats to Spurs and Everton as good performances. What next, press conferences for a game away to Stoke where he admits he'd be happy with a point? We've seen this **** before.

Oranage2

homerjay2005 wrote: »

realistically looking at the next 12 to 18 months the only players i would consider capable of being top class in their positions and being good enough for first 11 are the following 7 and I include Evans hesitantly.

---

DDG

---

Rafael

---

Evans----CB----LB
Nani

---

CM----CM

---

Adnan

---

RVP

---

Rooney

---

id be happy to see Carrick, Vidic, Cleverly, welbeck, Hernandez, Jones, Smalling, Young, Kagawa (if he improves) as they squad players, added to a few young lads.

that means at least 4 first team players are needed to come in, but with the troubles of cover at right back and left back, we are still short there.

With Rio, Evra and Giggs all to retire, and possibly Anderson, Buttner, Fabio all to leave the likes of Valencia, Welbeck, Young, Cleverly will be going nowhere, as that would not only see us needing major investment in the first 11, but also the squad. RVP will need to be replaced sooner or later.

people talk about transition...it has yet to begin i am afraid. its a real f*cking mess.

Nani?

He's been shocking for a while now.

homerjay2005

irishfeen wrote: »

Totally agree with you mate - that's why I think its totally unfair for people to be calling for Moyes' head already... I honestly don't think many other managers in world football (with the exception of Ferguson) who could win the PL/CL with the quality of players at his disposal.

yes and no. the world and its mother knew we needed to sign players in the summer and Moyes left it too late.

He should have handed a list of targets before July and demanded they were on the plane going to Asia on the 13th of July.

the problem is, Moyes was just told he had the job. he came into it, without demands, agreements and to be honest, low expectations.

on deadling day, we were still trying to sign Fellaini, Herrara, Baines/Ceontrao as it approached the last couple of hours. Moyes should have known this was not good enough and should have had these players signed 2 months earlier. how he left this happen and left the club get away with this, ill never know.

dare i say it, Moyes is just another yes man.

irishfeen

irishfeen wrote: »

United are a business - simple as... Best/Worst short/medium/long term plans and scenarios will have already been drawn up. I'm sure we could cope without CL football completely for even a few years but imo it would be a double edge sword for the Glazers not to make substantial transfer funds available.

Have no doubt a successful Man Utd is not just good for us fans but for the Glazers books too, I think Moyes will be given a blank cheque to an extent (not Bale type money) but substantial funds to rebuild the team from the the very beginning again. We have to remember too that Sir Alex always said (if we are to believe) that the Glazers never prevented him from signing players or restricted him from asking for transfer money.

I think we will see Man Utd's transfer record be broken a couple of times in this calender year and we will finally get our "marquee signing" with Ed Woodward coming up thumps - we also have to remember that Woodward will probably have as a professional been very hurt at accusations of him being out of him depth - United have always come good in times of adversary, have no doubt this is another as the club enters unchartered territory but with Moyes in position and Ferguson and Charlton behind the scenes to prevent a City/Chelsea type reaction we will be back sooner rather then later - we have prided ourselves with stability/long term thinking for the last 26 years, no need to change that now.

Are there any hard-ish numbers though? Even just missing the CL is £30million gone, plus another 10 for the low finishing position in the PL so about £40million. Is there another £100million available to spend to just get back to where they already were last year/2 years ago?

NTMK

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any hard-ish numbers though? Even just missing the CL is £30million gone, plus another 10 for the low finishing position in the PL so about £40million. Is there another £100million available to spend to just get back to where they already were last year/2 years ago?

They're just the hard figures we've got everything else is wishy washy as You cant accurately predict total losses but atracting sponsors as well as sponsor payments will take a Hit

The £100mill would be available if the Glazers allowed it United as a company is doing very well but its down to Owners to make funds available

irishfeen

spiralism wrote: »

Maybe not but they wouldnt have us out of the top 6 with a squad that won the league last year either. At what point do you say enough is enough with the direction we're taking?

This is eerily reminiscent of Hodgson at Liverpool i feel, totally inept performances, bad football, worse in the transfer market, inability to beat big teams and clearly not cut out for the pressure while talking of narrow home defeats to Spurs and Everton as good performances. What next, press conferences for a game away to Stoke where he admits he'd be happy with a point? We've seen this **** before.

Its simple in my mind he has until after next season before I would contemplate calling for his head (unless things went ridiculously down hill even from where we are now) ... he will be there until then I have no doubt - Ferguson and Charlton will make sure of that.

After next season he will have had 4 transfer window's open and plenty of time to put team inefficiencies right - he should then be judged on the basis of that... how anyone can call for his head with half a season played (and only one addition to the team) is actually beyond me. This is Man Utd we are taking about, stability and consistency is in our DNA.

Again I ask - what was Moyes suppose to say? we were s.hite? ... Alex would have said the exact same and attacked the interviewer for asking stupid questions deflecting from the team. I'm sure Moyes will have ripped them apart in the dressing room after some recent performances but that's for the dressing room and not for BT to be told after the match.

The_Kew_Tour

Bayern should be the example to all clubs.

even when you win the treble keep trying buy the very best.

they have and we have not. now its why we are both where we are

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

yes and no. the world and its mother knew we needed to sign players in the summer and Moyes left it too late.

He should have handed a list of targets before July and demanded they were on the plane going to Asia on the 13th of July.

the problem is, Moyes was just told he had the job. he came into it, without demands, agreements and to be honest, low expectations.

on deadling day, we were still trying to sign Fellaini, Herrara, Baines/Ceontrao as it approached the last couple of hours. Moyes should have known this was not good enough and should have had these players signed 2 months earlier. how he left this happen and left the club get away with this, ill never know.

dare i say it, Moyes is just another yes man.

Oh and you may very well be right and i'll be the first to admit it if it all ends in a disaster but now is a time for cool heads and stability.

Moyes/Woodward/the clubs hierarchy got it wrong in the summer and actually embarrassed the club/fans on the world stage - but Christ don't kick a man while he is down, it was surely a one off... I have a sneaky suspicion that Woodward will pull off a big marquee signing to surprise us yet, he is a shrewd man no doubt to get where he has got to - he must have been majorly hurt professionally/personally over what happened ...and that's exactly why I think it won't happen again - lessons will have been learned.

irishfeen

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any hard-ish numbers though? Even just missing the CL is £30million gone, plus another 10 for the low finishing position in the PL so about £40million. Is there another £100million available to spend to just get back to where they already were last year/2 years ago?

On the actual numbers I have no idea but be assured like any other big business number crunching will be done on a continuous basis on different scenarios to keep the club economically successful.

The_Kew_Tour

irishfeen wrote: »

Oh and you may very well be right and i'll be the first to admit it if it all ends in a disaster but now is a time for cool heads and stability.

Moyes/Woodward/the clubs hierarchy got it wrong in the summer and actually embarrassed the club/fans on the world stage - but Christ don't kick a man while he is down, it was surely a one off... I have a sneaky suspicion that Woodward will pull off a big marquee signing to surprise us yet, he is a shrewd man no doubt to get where he has got to - he must have been majorly hurt professionally/personally over what happened ...and that's exactly why I think it won't happen again - lessons will have been learned.

I agree with first paragraph.

we need to remain calm and not panic buy for sake of it. at same time we do need to invest.

homerjay2005

irishfeen wrote: »

he must have been majorly hurt professionally/personally over what happened ..

or he genuinely thinks nothing was/went wrong and applied the "we are champions and we just spend £28million on a midfielder" angle that many did on here.

while he may have been hurt, it is just as likely that in mid September, Ed Woodward was very content and happy man when the previous financial figures came out. that is the danger of having a non football man, at the head of a football club.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I agree with first paragraph.

we need to remain calm and not panic buy for sake of it. at same time we do need to invest.

Yep I think we can all agree on that... a major quality transfer surprise would be quite nice though :pac: ... this place would go into total meltdown.

beno619

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I agree with first paragraph.

we need to remain calm and not panic buy for sake of it. at same time we do need to invest.

I wouldnt mind panic buying, people laughed at Wenger for panic buying Arteta & Mertesacker look how that turned out.

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

or he genuinely thinks nothing was/went wrong and applied the "we are champions and we just spend £28million on a midfielder" angle that many did on here.

while he may have been hurt, it is just as likely that in mid September, Ed Woodward was very content and happy man when the previous financial figures came out. that is the danger of having a non football man, at the head of a football club.

His approach/the approach of the clubs hierarchy will soon become very apparent - he may not be a football man but he is obviously a smart man .... a successful Man Utd are a financially sound Man Utd.

The_Kew_Tour

beno619 wrote: »

I wouldnt mind panic buying, people laughed at Wenger for panic buying Arteta & Mertesacker look how that turned out.

exception to the rule although both were surely underestimated if that was case.

DM_7

The need to bring in six players doesn't exist to be competitive this season. A functioning midfield will make up for many of the issues with wide players and full backs.

A midfield that instead of getting bypassed that can take the ball and get it to attacking players in dangerous positions will solve so many problems.

Take Valencia, while he could be improved upon, with a better midfield you would soon find him getting the ball in situations that suit him rather than him getting the ball as he normally is now, on the back foot from the moment he gets it.

Take Evra, better use of the ball in possession will take pressure off him as he less likely to come under attack from the opposition.

Getting 5 or 6 players in and getting the right ones would take time and its what will be needed to be pushing the likes of Bayern. Realistically that has to be a medium term goal. The current aim has to be to get over SAF leaving, getting the most disfunctional part of the team sorted first.

As said, sufficient improvements were not made after the Champions League winning season, only Berbatov came in. Moyes isn't to blame for that and the goals set for him now need to be realistic.

bullvine

If the back four was actually organized it would make a difference. Yes, Evra has been bad but the downright inability to get any sort of organization at the back is downright shameful especially from some one like Moyes.

The_Kew_Tour

thing is though we conceded 4 goals at home to Everton, Newcastle and Spurs. Could be better alright but not awful, yet we came away with 0 points.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

thing is though we conceded 4 goals at home to Everton, Newcastle and Spurs. Could be better alright but not awful, yet we came away with 0 points.

Yeah if anything i'm more worried about the lack of guile going forward - we have in recent games seen plenty of possession but are doing fcuk all with it and can't seem to buy goals.