Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Winston Payne

GSPfan wrote: »

Yeah thats all true but I suppose you would most likely base your decision on which one is a better manager and which one has the best ability to coach Manchester United players.

At this point in time I'd feel better with Martinez as United manager. Hindsight and all. Martinez doesn't get the credit for Swansea's football style either. Everyone thinks of Rodgers but Martinez started that.

Kenny Jackett and Paulo Sousa both put in good work at Swansea before Martinez was even at the club.

Devil08

Winston Payne wrote: »

Kenny Jackett and Paulo Sousa both put in good work at Swansea before Martinez was even at the club.

Jackett for Utd manager with Sousa as his assistand?

irishfeen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

JUST FOOKING BID AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

'Monitoring', Jesus fecking wept.

Ed will come good for us - you heard it here first :pac:

Mitch Connor

irishfeen wrote: »

Ed will come good for us - you heard it here first :pac:

First, last and only time I'll hear that I reckon!

irishfeen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

First, last and only time I'll hear that I reckon!

At the close of the next summer transfer window we will know for sure what he is about - I just hope to god last summer was everyone bedding in and not a sign of things to come.

Maximus Alexander

irishfeen wrote: »

But of course he and Charlton would be involved in any decision to remove Moyes - they are on the board of directors at Man Utd.

I suppose that would depend on how many fucks the Glazers give about what SAF and Charlton have to say. If they were to decide Moyes was bad for business, I expect he'd be gone.

spiralism

Mitch Connor wrote: »

JUST FOOKING BID AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

'Monitoring', Jesus fecking wept.

Ridiculous ****e. I'm monitoring his situation at Chelsea too, on my laptop while eating my dinner :rolleyes:

irishfeen

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I suppose that would depend on how many fucks the Glazers give about what SAF and Charlton have to say. If they were to decide Moyes was bad for business, I expect he'd be gone.

... now that's a can of worms, would the Glazers be brave enough to go against Sir Alex and risk him revolting - I very very much doubt it.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In hindsight yes.

Hate saying that though

I wouldnt, wheels will come off. Barry has made a huge difference to that team and the defence is as solid as it was when Moyes was there, much in the same way that this is still Fergies team, that is still Moyes team. They are playing well yes, but the foundation was laid by someone else. Who also had them playing well a lot of the time.

My dislike for Martinez may cloud my judgement slightly, but I think the loan deals of Lukaku and Barry have been absolutely huge for them and are something of a false economy. I will be watching with great amusement when they begin their slide down the table.

Wigan were capable of playing nice football too, its the defensive solidity that was already there at Everton that is providing the spring board for them this season. Give him time, he will sink.

(I hope!) Just my thoughts on it anyway.

Winston Payne

irishfeen wrote: »

... now that's a can of worms, would the Glazers be brave enough to go against Sir Alex and risk him revolting - I very very much doubt it.

Revolt and do what? Publicly criticise them? They'll be quaking at that.

onemorechance

Chico to Chelsea and Mata to United . . . Acceptable? Might be just what both clubs need . . .

homerjay2005

onemorechance wrote: »

Chico to Chelsea and Mata to United . . . Acceptable? Might be just what both clubs need . . .

i would take it......

kryogen

This is actually not a bad article relating to Moyes, Everton and Martinez

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

Daily Fail I know, but it kinda fleshes out some of the points I was making so it will do

Everton are no better this year then last points wise, at least up to christmas day, not sure whether they are ahead, behind or level now after new years day.

irishfeen

Winston Payne wrote: »

Revolt and do what? Publicly criticise them? They'll be quaking at that.

Can you imagine what kind of bad PR Charlton and Ferguson stepping down would create? (It would signal total chaos to the world and stock exchange)... Ferguson kept the fans on side when the Glazers took control and from what I gather they seem to actually get on with SAF - if Moyes is pushed it will be Alex Ferguson and Bobby Charlton opening the door... I am certain of that.

homerjay2005

kryogen wrote: »

Everton are no better this year then last points wise, at least up to christmas day, not sure whether they are ahead, behind or level now after new years day.

incorrect- they had 5 points less last year after 20 games and dont forget, they dropped another 5 points recently in games they have been winning all season so up until a few games back the difference was 9 points.

DM_7

What were last season's crossing stats as a comparison?

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

incorrect- they had 5 points less last year after 20 games and dont forget, they dropped another 5 points recently in games they have been winning all season so up until a few games back the difference was 9 points.

Dont think so, as I said, up to Christmas Day the team was in the same position, I made an error with the points, apologies, what I meant was points in the big games, (United/Liverpool/Arsenal/Chelsea etc)

Same league position, they became a bit leggy after Christmas, lets see what happens this year after Christmas, as you said, they have started dropping points in games they were winning up to now.

The_Kew_Tour

kryogen wrote: »

I wouldnt, wheels will come off. Barry has made a huge difference to that team and the defence is as solid as it was when Moyes was there, much in the same way that this is still Fergies team, that is still Moyes team. They are playing well yes, but the foundation was laid by someone else. Who also had them playing well a lot of the time.

My dislike for Martinez may cloud my judgement slightly, but I think the loan deals of Lukaku and Barry have been absolutely huge for them and are something of a false economy. I will be watching with great amusement when they begin their slide down the table.

Wigan were capable of playing nice football too, its the defensive solidity that was already there at Everton that is providing the spring board for them this season. Give him time, he will sink.

(I hope!) Just my thoughts on it anyway.

I do agree a little with you. I think things will go down little at Everton more before they go up. Last few games have shown this to a degree.

Moyes can still get this right, but he has to buy the right players this month and needs to change tactically.

Now im not sure we are in for anyone, but I be little surprised if we were not.

Like to see a change in tactics for Cup game on Sunday. Something different. Ideal time.

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

What were last season's crossing stats as a comparison?

Uniteds or Evertons?

J. Marston

homerjay2005 wrote: »

we are stuck with him, so we may as well support him. no point asking for him to be sacked as its not going to happen.

he can turn this around, but it could get worse before it gets better.

No, he can't.

He's a nothing coach who has achieved nothing in football management other than somehow fooling people into thinking what he done at Everton was some form of miracle job when in fact, all he did was stay mediocre for a decade with one or two flash in the pan moments.

Can't wait until he's sacked.

DM_7

kryogen wrote: »

Uniteds or Evertons?

United's

Lots of annoyed posts about this seasons stats but no indication of how different they are from previous season. The source of the stats or if it includes set pieces.


A google search shows (eplindex) united with 25.6 crosses per game average, including crosses last season with 10 games to go.

This season its 26.? According to the sky piece but not sure about set pieces included or not or the source.

EDIT: regardless it doesn't change the fact United are too reliant on crosses. Just curious about the comparison.

http://eplindex.com/28299/how-efficient-team-crossing-premier-league-crossing-stats.html

DM_7

J. Marston wrote: »

No, he can't.

He's a nothing coach who has achieved nothing in football management other than somehow fooling people into thinking what he done at Everton was some form of miracle job when in fact, all he did was stay mediocre for a decade with one or two flash in the pan moments.

Can't wait until he's sacked.

He did an excellent job at Everton. To suggest otherwise is nonsense.

Brilliant or Brutal as United manager doesn't change that.

onemorechance

J. Marston wrote: »

No, he can't.

He's a nothing coach who has achieved nothing in football management other than somehow fooling people into thinking what he done at Everton was some form of miracle job when in fact, all he did was stay mediocre for a decade with one or two flash in the pan moments.

Can't wait until he's sacked.

From the fail article Kryogen posted:

1. Eight top 7 finishes in eleven years in charge, European football, an FA Cup Final, the total stabilisation and improvement of a club working on limited resources.
2. Phil Jagielka (£4million from Sheffield United), Leighton Baines (£5million from Wigan), Mikel Arteta (£2million from Real Sociedad), Tim Howard (3million from Manchester United), Sylvain Distin (£5million from Portsmouth) and Steven Pienaar (2million from Borussia Dortmund)
3. Everton made a profit in the summer transfer window for his last five years in charge yet still never dropped below 8th place
4. On Christmas Day this year, Everton will be 5th, level on points with the 4th placed team Chelsea.
   On Christmas Day last year, Everton were 5th, level on points with the 4th placed team Arsenal.
5. By Christmas Day this year, Everton have beaten Manchester United at Old Trafford, drawn with Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal, defeated Chelsea at Goodison and lost at Manchester City. 9 points out of 18.
   By Christmas Day last year, Everton had beaten Manchester United (admittedly at Goodison Park but in mitigation, last season's United were a stronger force), defeated Tottenham, drawn with Liverpool and Arsenal, lost against Chelsea at Goodison but drew at Manchester City. 9 points out of 18.
6. By Christmas Day this year, Everton have scored 29 goals, one less than last season, although they have admittedly played one fewer game.

kryogen

J. Marston wrote: »

No, he can't.

He's a nothing coach who has achieved nothing in football management other than somehow fooling people into thinking what he done at Everton was some form of miracle job when in fact, all he did was stay mediocre for a decade with one or two flash in the pan moments.

Can't wait until he's sacked.

The part in bold is blinding you to be honest

kryogen

DM-ICE wrote: »

United's

Lots of annoyed posts about this seasons stats but no indication of how different they are from previous season. The source of the stats or if it includes set pieces.


A google search shows (eplindex) united with 25.6 crosses per game average, including crosses last season with 10 games to go.

This season its 26.? According to the sky piece but not sure about set pieces included or not or the source.

EDIT: regardless it doesn't change the fact United are too reliant on crosses. Just curious about the comparison.

agreed, but wing play has been a United tradition and the previous manager was a firm believer in it. I think another problem with the team playing through the middle, the obvious problem I suppose, is the lack of central midfielders to actually do that, create through the middle. All they are good for (with the exception of Carrick who is capable of making passes through defences) is getting the balls to the wing and relying on them to do something

The_Kew_Tour

Ok its the 1st of February.

What signings are needed and who would you buy, if anyone? what would make you confident?

If we got LB and CM I be happy with that.

kryogen

kryogen wrote: »

This is actually not a bad article relating to Moyes, Everton and Martinez

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2528973/Everton-exactly-position-Christmas-David-Moyes.html

Daily Fail I know, but it kinda fleshes out some of the points I was making so it will do

Everton are no better this year then last points wise, at least up to christmas day, not sure whether they are ahead, behind or level now after new years day.

Christmas this year: Played 17, 34 points.
Christmas last year: Played 18, 30 points.
Last season they had 27 points from the first 17 matches. So I don't think they're quite in the same position as last year.

homerjay2005

onemorechance wrote: »

From the fail article Kryogen posted:

its a poorly researched and worded article,using christmas day and other angles skews things the way the write wants it and as the calenders dont match up, the comparison is irrelevent

after 17 games this year on christmas day, Everton had 34 points.
after 17 games last season, Everton had 27 points.

now they have 38 points after 20 games compared to 33 this time last year.

J. Marston

Eight top 7 finishes in eleven years in charge

Whoop-dee-doo...

European football

Europa League for the most part and the one time he qualified for the Champions League, he didn't make it past the qualifying round.

an FA Cup Final

Which he lost.

the total stabilisation and improvement of a club working on limited resources.

Is that supposed to be impressive? Talk about padding a CV...

Phil Jagielka (£4million from Sheffield United), Leighton Baines (£5million from Wigan), Mikel Arteta (£2million from Real Sociedad), Tim Howard (3million from Manchester United), Sylvain Distin (£5million from Portsmouth) and Steven Pienaar (2million from Borussia Dortmund)

Marouane Fellaini: £27 million from Everton.

On Christmas Day this year, Everton will be 5th, level on points with the 4th placed team Chelsea.
On Christmas Day last year, Everton were 5th, level on points with the 4th placed team Arsenal.
By Christmas Day this year, Everton have beaten Manchester United at Old Trafford, drawn with Tottenham, Liverpool and Arsenal, defeated Chelsea at Goodison and lost at Manchester City. 9 points out of 18.
By Christmas Day last year, Everton had beaten Manchester United (admittedly at Goodison Park but in mitigation, last season's United were a stronger force), defeated Tottenham, drawn with Liverpool and Arsenal, lost against Chelsea at Goodison but drew at Manchester City. 9 points out of 18.
By Christmas Day this year, Everton have scored 29 goals, one less than last season, although they have admittedly played one fewer game.

Pointless numbers. It's obvious Everton are much better off without him, like we will be.

All mediocre/slightly above average achievements that should be nowhere near the criteria for getting the United job.

(Oh Jesus, I've become a multi-quoter....)

kryogen

I hardly think 6 months into the new manager reign is the correct time to decide that the club is obviously much better off without him.

You could try waiting a season maybe? See where they finish relative to where they normally do? See how they progress over the next two or three years?

The short term thinking is insane at times!

Robson99

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

If we got LB and CM I be happy with that.

Luke Shaw and Modric would be nice

TheDoc

J. Marston wrote: »

No, he can't.

He's a nothing coach who has achieved nothing in football management other than somehow fooling people into thinking what he done at Everton was some form of miracle job when in fact, all he did was stay mediocre for a decade with one or two flash in the pan moments.

Can't wait until he's sacked.

You know up to that point, that could easily be a carbon copy for Ferguson, and was some of the arguments put against him before he arrived. For his success in Scotland, it was undermined and rubbished by a lot of UK press.

It is simply belittling, stupid and crast to say Moyes has achieved nothing in football, it is actually making me so angry.

"Achievement" in football is not all about trophies. Not every manager is blessed with being handed the reigns of a powerful club and being able to ACTUALLY win trophies. At some point, you need to take a punt on someone, and we did.

There is PLENTY of evidence to suggest that Moyes has been a successful manager in the premier league. I'd love to see how a Mourinho would do in a club on a shoe string budget, where the players need to be coached. I'd imagine not to well.

Moyes has extensive experience in the premier league, and took a club who were in the pits and made them a cohesive unit that caused problems for EVERY team they played. He got involved in Everton at every level, and for years had Everton punching above their weight.

He has a REAL nack for identifying talent and nurturing youth. Look at the players that came from under his stewardship, he had to sell them on simply because of the clubs financial needs. Martinez hasn't magically discovered Barkley, he has been there for years, nurtured and prepared, like Rodwell and Rooney before him, among many others. He identified Coleman as a potentially top class wing back, and look at how he is playing. He took Leighton Baines from Reading who was an average LB, and made him someone to challenge Ashley Coles monopoly.

He has come into the biggest club in England, handed a squad who strolled to the title, yet quickly identified some areas he wanted to strengthen. Areas we all agree in. The business didnt get done, unfortunate. But he knows the areas he needs to strengthen.

No one could have imagined the dip in form of premier league champions. Maybe Ferguson, maybe that's why he sprung ship. And you know what maybe Ferguson did work magic and get the players playing ebtter then they are, but it's stupid to assume anyone else can do the same.

I said it ten times before and I'll say it again. I really feel strong about people calling for his head already. It shows fickle mindness that I always laughed at Man City,Spurs, Chelsea etc. over. I don't understand how anyone could be saying 2 out of his depth" and the likes.

A)Inherited a squad with SERIOUS problems, one transfer window and pre-season to address before league defence.
B)Stalwart CB over the hill
C)Stalwart LB over the hill
D)Midfield void of creativity and toughness
E)Enacting transfer dealings with a new inexperienced chief exec
F)Injury to first choice right back causing out of position players

After the issues with the transfer window in the summer, due to inexperience on the chief execs part, not the manager, it was safe to assume that lessons would be learned. No big signings happen in Janaury, let's be real. I can't see anyone big coming. That leaves the summer.

Next summer Moyes will have had a full season, and two pre seasons and dealing in his third transfer market. I would imagine at this point the rot will be gone, and some new fresh talent will be in.

That then leads to a second season, where the hope would be the manager is more comfortable with his surroundings, signings will have settled, and a system is in place and understood.

This notion of Moyes being a nothing manager, out of his depth, undeserving etc. needs to be thrown out. And people spouting that ****e need to get a grip, if your not knowledgeable enough to understand how football works, don't spout your ill informed bull****. You known or alot of people, the most successful manager in world football, personally selecting someone, should be enough and the arguement about suitability should end there.

But if you need to look deeper, we hired on one of the most consistent high performing managers in English football, who is experienced in working in all segements of a football club for extended periods, while developing and integrating youth into a high performance premier league side.

Also catching some posts on "crossing" stats. Maybe alot of guys around here don't remember before the Ronaldo years, but our premier league success was built on wingers....we refined 4-4-2, we got a name for explosive breaking football, and we won championships by our wingers putting crosses into the box. Moyes isnt bringing in a new tactic, he is continuing on what won us championships. Debate about modern football all you like, but the focus on "crossing" is a tad ironic in my book.

yabadabado

Robson99 wrote: »

Luke Shaw and Modric would be nice

could live with that

homerjay2005

TheDoc wrote: »

Also catching some posts on "crossing" stats. Maybe alot of guys around here don't remember before the Ronaldo years, but our premier league success was built on wingers....we refined 4-4-2, we got a name for explosive breaking football, and we won championships by our wingers putting crosses into the box. Moyes isnt bringing in a new tactic, he is continuing on what won us championships. Debate about modern football all you like, but the focus on "crossing" is a tad ironic in my book.

there is crossing and then there is aimless hoofing into the box from all angles, which is what we are doing.

i doubt we had 79% failure rate during ronaldos term and we certainly were not bottom of the league in terms of creativity through the middle-we were 8th last year.

GSPfan

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ok its the 1st of February.

What signings are needed and who would you buy, if anyone? what would make you confident?

If we got LB and CM I be happy with that.

I'd be happy selling a few along with buying a few. The usual suspects.

Liam O

J. Marston wrote: »

Whoop-dee-doo...



Europa League for the most part and the one time he qualified for the Champions League, he didn't make it past the qualifying round.



Which he lost.



Is that supposed to be impressive? Talk about padding a CV...



Marouane Fellaini: £27 million from Everton.



Pointless numbers. It's obvious Everton are much better off without him, like we will be.

All mediocre/slightly above average achievements that should be nowhere near the criteria for getting the United job.

(Oh Jesus, I've become a multi-quoter....)

Name a manager who has spent less and finished higher in the league the last few seasons than Everton then. I can sure name a bunch who spent moreand finished lower.

Headshot

kryogen wrote: »

I hardly think 6 months into the new manager reign is the correct time to decide that the club is obviously much better off without him.

You could try waiting a season maybe? See where they finish relative to where they normally do? See how they progress over the next two or three years?

The short term thinking is insane at times!

All well in good if he was the right man in first place but sadly he wasnt

I love to see the back off him tomorrow but my football brain says wait till the end of the season

Backstreet Moyes

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Ok its the 1st of February.

What signings are needed and who would you buy, if anyone? what would make you confident?

If we got LB and CM I be happy with that.

Likely Contrea and Cabaye which i would be happy with. Maybe Ribiero or Mutabadi. Then in the summer throw silly money at the likes of Gundogan, Reus and Draxler.

TheDoc

Headshot wrote: »

All well in good if he was the right man in first place but sadly he wasnt

I love to see the back off him tomorrow but my football brain says wait till the end of the season

And end of season, what do we look for in a new manager? Who are the candidates?

I appreciate you've been one of the long naysayers, so I'm genuinely interested to know by what standards and credentials we should be looking at, and what are the potential candidates?

I'm not being smart in the slightest, I'm just genuinely trying to understand the opinion of the other side of the table, and what are the possibilities.

Nobody comes close to our previous manager SAF. The only thing close is Pep who is happily tied down to Bayern. Next in line, Mourinho who is happily rekindled with Chelsea. Both of him moved in the last while so no chance of moving.

For me it's removing Moyes, then taking another "gamble" on someone. There are very little standout CV's in managerial football , and Football365 put it best, there arn't any good managers anymore, just good managers for the right situations.

Backstreet Moyes

Everton played much better football than we have been this year. Piennar and Mirallas performed well in a sort of free role. They were roaming around dragging player inside allowing Baines and Coleman space to attack and they have great delivery. I think Moyes wanted Baines to do something like this with United. The fact is we have a central midfield that have no creativity and wingers who can't cross a ball it is quite sad.

I really think Moyes just has no faith in the cm he tried to solve it in the summer but it didn't work out. Our tactics are to just bypass the midfield and to be honest it's so poor i don't blame him. The problem is we have midfielders who just don't have the quality to create. So he is focusing on our wingers and they just don't have the quality of final delivery. The only player we have who can cross is Rafael but he has been injured. I really think we would work well with full backs offering the width with Fellaini sitting deep covering them and Kagawa playing cm where he has a free role along with Janjuaz dragging players out of position opening up the wings for our full backs.

DDG

Raf Vidic Evans LB

Carrick Kagawa Fellaini

Janjuaz

Rooney RVP

DM_7

homerjay2005 wrote: »

there is crossing and then there is aimless hoofing into the box from all angles, which is what we are doing.

i doubt we had 79% failure rate during ronaldos term and we certainly were not bottom of the league in terms of creativity through the middle-we were 8th last year.

On crossing

The failure rates across the league is normally 77%

http://www.bsports.com/extratime/leaderboard-crossing-accuracy-in-the-premier-league

In 08/09 Ronaldo managed 16% success so 84% failure

http://eplindex.com/34338/gareth-bale-80-million-pound-man-bale-1213-vs-ronaldo-0809.html

Pity United didn't buy Bale before Madrid went mental

TheDoc

DM-ICE wrote: »

On crossing

The failure rates across the league is normally 77%

http://www.bsports.com/extratime/leaderboard-crossing-accuracy-in-the-premier-league

In 08/09 Ronaldo managed 16% success so 84% failure

http://eplindex.com/34338/gareth-bale-80-million-pound-man-bale-1213-vs-ronaldo-0809.html

Pity United didn't buy Bale before Madrid went mental

I referenced Ronaldo because during that era of his peak, I thought we did alot more "cutting in" off the wings, then hit the by line and cross, like the Beckham era lets say

Headshot

Any manager after Fergie would of been a gambled even Jose or Pep but getting a manager that has a record of winning, of transforming teams, who is tactically aware and has European pedigree would lesson the blow of losing Fergie. Also someone that has a bigger than life personality and a great man manager.

That is a tall ask you may said but in the summer we had Jose but come this summer my ideal candidates would be

Klopp. The man is the ideal replacement, I would smuggle him out of Germany and take him to Old Trafford and pay him what ever he wants to manage our team.

Other names that I have the highest regard for
Conte. Has transformed Juve
Van Gaal
Simeone. Players love him, fans love him and again has transformed a team that has always been known for choking into a team that might actually break the Barca R.Madrid mini league

kryogen

Headshot wrote: »

All well in good if he was the right man in first place but sadly he wasnt

I love to see the back off him tomorrow but my football brain says wait till the end of the season

Im talking about Martinez there HS

Far too early to be swinging from his dick the way some are

Headshot

kryogen wrote: »

Im talking about Martinez there HS

Far too early to be swinging from his dick the way some are

ah fair enough Kry old buddy

Ill let you off this time :P

kryogen

Headshot wrote: »

Any manager after Fergie would of been a gambled even Jose or Pep but getting a manager that has a record of winning, of transforming teams, who is tactically aware and has European pedigree would lesson the blow of losing Fergie. Also someone that has a bigger than life personality and a great man manager.

That is a tall ask you may said but in the summer we had Jose but come this summer my ideal candidates would be

Klopp. The man is the ideal replacement, I would smuggle him out of Germany and take him to Old Trafford and pay him what ever he wants to manage our team.

Other names that I have the highest regard for
Conte. Has transformed Juve
Van Gaal
Simeone. Players love him, fans love him and again has transformed a team that has always been known for choking into a team that might actually break the Barca R.Madrid mini league

Klopp is one I like, would have him in a heart beat, Simeone not so much, I think he is very suited to Latin players and the Spanish league in general, dunno if his style would translate well into England, not saying he couldnt do it, I would just prefer to see him elsewhere first.

You could say the same about Klopp of course, but I just love the guy

Van Gaal I wouldnt want anywhere near the club now, would much prefer someone in the mould of Hiddink if we are going down the road of stop gaps to keep the team ticking over while identifying a long term replacement and putting him in place.

MagicIRL

Finally watched the Keane v Vieira documentary. Love it!

Headshot

Oh ya thanks Kry, I didnt think of Hiddink another manager I quite like

onemorechance

homerjay2005 wrote: »

its a poorly researched and worded article,using christmas day and other angles skews things the way the write wants it and as the calenders dont match up, the comparison is irrelevent

after 17 games this year on christmas day, Everton had 34 points.
after 17 games last season, Everton had 27 points.

now they have 38 points after 20 games compared to 33 this time last year.

Using Christmas Day or 17 games in two seasons can skew it just the same. Everton are improved on last season, but the team is still essentially what Moyes has developed over many seasons. Two of the star performers are youth players promoted by Moyes and two key players in their improvement are loan players brought in by Martinez.

I still think that Moyes is the best hope of United having long term success and stability, he is the chosen one after all!

MagicIRL

onemorechance wrote: »

Using Christmas Day or 17 games in two seasons can skew it just the same. Everton are improved on last season, but the team is still essentially what Moyes has developed over many seasons. Two of the star performers are youth players promoted by Moyes and two key players in their improvement are loan players brought in by Martinez.

I still think that Moyes is the best hope of United having long term success and stability, he is the chosen one after all!

I think this is a very important point, especially regarding Everton and their success. That Everton team [is][/b], for all intents and purposes, Moyes' Everton bar a few lone and/or former Wigan players.

I think, given time, United too will reap the benefit of Moyes. The only concern is that Moyes was at the helm of Everton for... 10 years I think? And he won nothing, suddenly a new manager and they're pushing on. Can Moyes get the same team together under United and usher in a new era or will he just keep the team in/around top 4 and fizzle out?