Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

IamtheWalrus

Concerning that no signings have been announced already. Surely the work is done during the close season and Jan is just where you tie up deals.

Agueroooo

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well looks like Alex Buttner is on his way out of Old Trafford

http://www.eyefootball.com/news/17198/Man-Utd-defender-Alex-Buttner-Galatasaray.html

surely not true.

is he that bad?

I rated the guy.

brinty

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Concerning that no signings have been announced already. Surely the work is done during the close season and Jan is just where you tie up deals.

I'd agree Walrus...the silence thus far is deafening

brinty

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Well looks like Alex Buttner is on his way out of Old Trafford

http://www.eyefootball.com/news/17198/Man-Utd-defender-Alex-Buttner-Galatasaray.html

So if we don't sign a LB and Evra gets injured we've Fabio...Jeesus Moyes may play him in the cup on sunday and give him some game time

Lord TSC

Agueroooo wrote: »

surely not true.

is he that bad?

I rated the guy.

He's never going to make the first team. An ok squad player but we need more than that at LB right now.

You'd imagine if we get a new LB in, Evra would drop back into the back up position. So Butner won't be getting much time as a result.

jonnyfingers

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Concerning that no signings have been announced already. Surely the work is done during the close season and Jan is just where you tie up deals.

I wouldn't be too worried just yet. Every chance that any selling club would prefer to delay a deal until the window opens in an effort to drum up some more interest and get a better transfer fee. If it's a player Moyes really wants, and we really need, we might have no option but to be patient.

I'm much more concerned with getting the right players in before the end of the window than just getting some players in as soon as possible.

master-t

Buttner is awful. Fabio is a far better LB option than Buttner. I am neither surprised nor concerned that Buttner is surplus to requirements.

beno619

master-t wrote: »

This window, at best, will consist of possibly recalling Powel and a loan move for a LB, possibly and preferably Coentrao.


Other than that, we will enter our 6th season of saying 'We will def sign another midfielder this summer'. Fellaini does count of course, but I think now more than ever it was glaringly obvious of the need for two CMS. Add in the fact that Kagawa will not make it at United, our wingers are truly awful bar Januzaj and Carrick is near 33, we need a complete midfield revamp.

While I agree we need a revamp.

Moyes hasnt used Kagawa well if given a chance in his proper position he will come good. I also still believe Ando can contribute if we dont sign anyone this window.

Red Crow

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Concerning that no signings have been announced already. Surely the work is done during the close season and Jan is just where you tie up deals.

There are huge barriers in the way.

A) We can no longer guarantee Champions League football
Players will see the massive pressure that Moyes is under. What top player would want to put himself in a position where in 6 months he could be playing under a new manager.
C) It's 6 months to the World Cup. No reasonable player who is in their international team is going to want to move clubs with such a short time to the world cup.
D) Can David Moyes convince players to join the club? Nobody is impressed with our style. We have a lot of holes in the side. We've had a poor start to the season. Woodward is an inexperienced negotiator and if were honest there is very little certainty surrounding the club at the moment.

homerjay2005

Headshot wrote: »

This had me in stitches

http://www.givemesport.com/415206-crazy-antwerp-line-up-halfnaked-women-hit-balls-at-their-backsides?tg=/football

imagine if United made that video?

Valencia would take it outside, then stop, move forward then pass it backwards at which time the girls have gone home.

Cleverly would call the girl towards him and pass it to her once she is beside him.

Giggs would have them in the locker room.

Rafael would pull a hamstring on the run up.

master-t

beno619 wrote: »

While I agree we need a revamp.

Moyes hasnt used Kagawa well if given a chance in his proper position he will come good. I also still believe Ando can contribute if we dont sign anyone this window.

Right, but this is the thing. His best position. Rooney plays in his 'best position'. Are you saying we should drop Rooney for him? If RVP plays, then Rooney must play the No.10. This means that Kagawa has to deploy himself on the left. But he is ineffective here.


Rooney on the left means we don't have the control and tempo in the middle that Rooney brings. Kagawa can't do this.


And just for the record, he has played in 7 PL matches (has been injured a lot too) and 5 CL games this season.

irishfeen

Red Crow wrote: »

There are huge barriers in the way.

A) We can no longer guarantee Champions League football
Players will see the massive pressure that Moyes is under. What top player would want to put himself in a position where in 6 months he could be playing under a new manager.
C) It's 6 months to the World Cup. No reasonable player who is in their international team is going to want to move clubs with such a short time to the world cup.
D) Can David Moyes convince players to join the club? Nobody is impressed with our style. We have a lot of holes in the side. We've had a poor start to the season. Woodward is an inexperienced negotiator and if were honest there is very little certainty surrounding the club at the moment.

But ... anyone of any real quality are almost guaranteed first team football with one of the best supported and successful teams in the world football - Man Utd are the team to establish yourself as a player on the world stage.

master-t

irishfeen wrote: »

But ... anyone of any real quality are almost guaranteed first team football with one of the best supported and successful teams in the world football - Man Utd are the team to establish yourself as a player on the world stage.

Whilst I wish this was in fact still true, I have my doubts as to whether world class players still think this.

The_Kew_Tour

While we are at random

Kagawa and Kiyotake v loads of kids...loads

http://lockerdome.com/bbcsporf/6169461380096065/6236611952258324

irishfeen

master-t wrote: »

Whilst I wish this was in fact still true, I have my doubts as to whether world class players still think this.

Have no doubt about it, if we were/are willing to part with the required cash there are very few players in world football that wouldn't like to join the most successful team in Europe over the last 20 years - couple that with the shear size and reputation of the club ... our problem has been that we are unwilling to spend the cash - it has worked because of SAF up to this point but without spending big along the lines of Chelsea, City, Madrid etc we will continue to decline ... we have to remember that Chelsea and City have pumped hundreds of millions into squad and then we wonder why we are in decline.

IamtheWalrus

Agueroooo wrote: »

surely not true.

is he that bad?

I rated the guy.

Never has been, or will be, Utd standard.

homerjay2005

here is some more stats that will make you sick.

We have played 200 more long balls so far this season compared to Liverpool, City and Arsenal. we have 64 long balls per game and this is the same as Palace and only 3 per game behind the likes of Norwich and West Ham.

Last season we were ranked 17th in terms of long balls, we are joint 9th with palace this year.

we were 6th in terms of attacks through the middle, we are joint in last place this season.

its the same players ffs.

beno619

master-t wrote: »

Right, but this is the thing. His best position. Rooney plays in his 'best position'. Are you saying we should drop Rooney for him? If RVP plays, then Rooney must play the No.10. This means that Kagawa has to deploy himself on the left. But he is ineffective here.


Rooney on the left means we don't have the control and tempo in the middle that Rooney brings. Kagawa can't do this.


And just for the record, he has played in 7 PL matches (has been injured a lot too) and 5 CL games this season.

Not necessarily, RVP and now Rooney have been injured/ unfit for a large portion of the season.

I know it was one game, but the teams performance against Leverkusen was our best of the season and Kagawa's, not because of the german opposition but because Moyes actually played a balanced side.

Giggs and Fellaini got the ball to Kagawa who ran the show linking up with Rooney and the wide men brilliantly. Moyes has failed to reproduce that side or something similar.

DDG

whoever is fit - Smalling - Evans - Evra

Carrick - Fletch/Clev/Ando

Young/Val - Kagawa - Andnan/ Young

Rooney

Thats the sort of side which would have beaten Spurs and might also be attractive to watch.

KH25

Never understood the Buttner transfer really. It just came out of nowhere.

adox

homerjay2005 wrote: »

here is some more stats that will make you sick.

We have played 200 more long balls so far this season compared to Liverpool, City and Arsenal. we have 64 long balls per game and this is the same as Palace and only 3 per game behind the likes of Norwich and West Ham.

Last season we were ranked 17th in terms of long balls, we are joint 9th with palace this year.

we were 6th in terms of attacks through the middle, we are joint in last place this season.

its the same players ffs.

It speaks volumes about Moyes influence.

spiralism

irishfeen wrote: »

But ... anyone of any real quality are almost guaranteed first team football with one of the best supported and successful teams in the world football - Man Utd are the team to establish yourself as a player on the world stage.

This is the sort of **** liverpool fans came out with when they were finishing in 7th. We're not that team anymore, definitely not since fergie left, this rather depressing quote sums us up:

Daniele De Rossi yesterday: "It was a good thing that I didn't go to Manchester United, now I would have committed suicide."

Top players would rather kill themselves than play for the David Moyes midtable experience, sums it up.

Agueroooo

spiralism wrote: »

This is the sort of **** liverpool fans came out with when they were finishing in 7th. We're not that team anymore, definitely not since fergie left, this rather depressing quote sums us up:

Daniele De Rossi yesterday: "It was a good thing that I didn't go to Manchester United, now I would have committed suicide."

Top players would rather kill themselves than play for the David Moyes midtable experience, sums it up.

Roma are flying at the moment and a very sad Rossi (last season) has found his form again and enjoying his football.

I think thats the real reason for the above quote.

bullvine

Money is the main reason for clubs attracting players, City have proven this, how do you think they attracted all the players between 2007 and 2010. It wasn't for Champions League football at the time.

Mitch Connor

Lithium93_ wrote: »

I think Moyes will stick it out until the summer with the current squad (though i'd loved to be proven wrong and see at least 2 new players arrive this month)


Major squad overhaul definitely needed in the summer, clear out some of the deadwood

I don't think the squad is good enough to do so - we have to make some investment NOW. Without it we are going to finish 6th.

We also need 6 or so players, to leave all that to the summer makes no real sense either.

If United are not pushing for signings right now, then Moyes and Woodward have no business being in the positions they are in, as they would be behaving in a massively neglectful way.

xtal191

He said that because Roma are fighting for the title not because Utd aren't doing well.

spiralism

Well for one if i was playing for this mess and i wasn't in a good place, it'd only drag me down. It goes to show how unattractive the idea of playing for MUFC is now. The sooner we're shot of this clueless bastard in charge the better tbh.

magnumbud

bullvine wrote: »

Money is the main reason for clubs attracting players, City have proven this, how do you think they attracted all the players between 2007 and 2010. It wasn't for Champions League football at the time.

it sure wasnt the manchester weather

brinty

magnumbud wrote: »

it sure wasnt the manchester weather

Or the Machester Ship canal

Mitch Connor

spiralism wrote: »

This is the sort of **** liverpool fans came out with when they were finishing in 7th. We're not that team anymore, definitely not since fergie left, this rather depressing quote sums us up:

Daniele De Rossi yesterday: "It was a good thing that I didn't go to Manchester United, now I would have committed suicide."

Top players would rather kill themselves than play for the David Moyes midtable experience, sums it up.

How about you take a look at what was actually said.

He said a move to ANYWHERE in the summer would have had him commiting suicide because winning a title with Roma (which they are strong contenders for this season) is his biggest dream, and it would kill him to see them competing for the title without him.

It was not a slight on United - I don't think he actually mentioned United.

irishfeen

spiralism wrote: »

This is the sort of **** liverpool fans came out with when they were finishing in 7th. We're not that team anymore, definitely not since fergie left, this rather depressing quote sums us up:

Daniele De Rossi yesterday: "It was a good thing that I didn't go to Manchester United, now I would have committed suicide."

Top players would rather kill themselves than play for the David Moyes midtable experience, sums it up.

Ah we are the current Barclays Premier League champions ... not Liverpool :rolleyes:

homerjay2005

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If United are not pushing for signings right now, then Moyes and Woodward have no business being in the positions they are in, as they would be behaving in a massively neglectful way.

you know what...given how things have unfolded, if Moyes and Woodward dont deliver 2 top signings by end of january, i think that Woodward (if not both) should be removed from the club

no more excuses at this stage, get the business done or f*ck off. its clear to see we need investment, so its about time they delivered.

if we wait until the last day to try bring in players again this time, it shouldnt even be optional.

Mitch Connor

irishfeen wrote: »

Ah we are the current Barclays Premier League champions ... not Liverpool.

Irrelevant, really. That PL trophy is in the past.

We may get one seasons grace on this, imo. But if United don't get CL football this season, and follow it up again with no CL football the following season, summer 2015 will be a nightmare.

I honestly think we can still attract the right player now, and in summer 2014 - but it will get progressively harder if things don't improve.

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you know what...given how things have unfolded, if Moyes and Woodward dont deliver 2 top signings by end of january, i think that Woodward (if not both) should be removed from the club

no more excuses at this stage, get the business done or f*ck off. its clear to see we need investment, so its about time they delivered.

if we wait until the last day to try bring in players again this time, it shouldnt even be optional.

I'd give them this transfer window and next - Summer is the time when I think our main business will be done... When the PL kicks off next August I think we could have some significant changes to our first team.

MagicIRL

Do you think that, if we bring in a creative midfielder, we will see more Kagawa? Shinji in the hole needs supply, which our midfield just can't supply.

bullvine

magnumbud wrote: »

it sure wasnt the manchester weather

If the worst happens and as expected we miss out on fourth, we'll need to spend big on both wages and transfers to attract top players. Simple as.

irishfeen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Irrelevant, really. That PL trophy is in the past.

We may get one seasons grace on this, imo. But if United don't get CL football this season, and follow it up again with no CL football the following season, summer 2015 will be a nightmare.

I honestly think we can still attract the right player now, and in summer 2014 - but it will get progressively harder if things don't improve.

Man City have proved you don't need to be winning the CL/PL every year to attract big names - its simple money talks most of all but the size and reputation of United would also be a big help ... we need to fling open the cheque book to sign quality players - simple as.

spiralism

Mitch Connor wrote: »

How about you take a look at what was actually said.

He said a move to ANYWHERE in the summer would have had him commiting suicide because winning a title with Roma (which they are strong contenders for this season) is his biggest dream, and it would kill him to see them competing for the title without him.

It was not a slight on United - I don't think he actually mentioned United.

He was asked the question regarding United. This is spin, he said what he said and that's how it looks. I personally wouldnt blame him, why would he want to be here having balls hoofed over his head in midfield and finishing 6th instead of pushing for a title in Italy with the club he's stuck by over the years.

United are not an attractive team to play for anymore. Players wanted to play for Fergie and the constant competitiveness in all competitions, Money was never as big a deal at MUFC as it is at City and Chelsea to attract players - see Van Persie's comments amongst others who signed for us. Right now all we have is the club's name and history, and like i said, that didnt cut it at Liverpool, least not until they changed ownership and they were willing to splash the cash again.

homerjay2005

apologies for bringing up more stats, but this one is very telling -

Mufc rank 16th in terms of tackles per game and lie just ahead of West brom and Fulham to be in bottom 3.

where is intensity gone? is this as a result of training methods or just a lack of drive in the players?

Al Capwned

Regardless of whether or not he specifically mentioned United, de Rossi's comments are careless and wreckless at the very least.
I'd go so far as to call them disgraceful.

irishfeen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

apologies for bringing up more stats, but this one is very telling -

homerjay2005 - are you statistician? :pac:

Mitch Connor

irishfeen wrote: »

I'd give them this transfer window and next - Summer is the time when I think our main business will be done... When the PL kicks off next August I think we could have some significant changes to our first team.

This season is already a disaster because of their bumbling efforts in the summer. I can't understand how anyone can leave them off this window too - how can you argue we don't need to improve the team right now?

We could go for Alex Sandro and Fernando from Porto right now - with Porto not being in the CL anymore. A talented left back and a great addition to central midfield - Fernando being out of contract in the summer should make negotiations more doable too.

Juventus are also out of the CL so we could possibly do business with them - linked with Vidal - would be a dream signing.

Benfica are out of the CL too - Matic is a player we should be looking at.

Carvalho at Sporting is another option - not in the CL at the moment.

I'm sure there are loads of other players we could quite possible sign in January that would improve our chances of making the CL for next season.

Honestly, if we don't sign a left back and a central midfielder simply because Moyes choses not to, he should be sacked at the end of the season if we don't make the CL - as he will have done nothing to help his case.

xtal191

Mitch Connor

spiralism wrote: »

He was asked the question regarding United. This is spin, he said what he said and that's how it looks. I personally wouldnt blame him, why would he want to be here having balls hoofed over his head in midfield and finishing 6th instead of pushing for a title in Italy with the club he's stuck by over the years.

United are not an attractive team to play for anymore. Players wanted to play for Fergie and the constant competitiveness in all competitions, Money was never as big a deal at MUFC as it is at City and Chelsea to attract players - see Van Persie's comments amongst others who signed for us. Right now all we have is the club's name and history, and like i said, that didnt cut it at Liverpool, least not until they changed ownership and they were willing to splash the cash again.

It is the spin idiots with agendas are putting on it.

Maybe, just maybe, if we had midfielders that could control the tempo of the game and showed for the ball, we wouldn't hoof the ball over them.

I am as big a critic of Moyes and his tactics as anyone, but I don't think an out of sorts Carrick partnered with Cleverley or Jones was his first choice, or capable of playing to the standard required, so the midfield isn't capable of doing what Moyes really wants them too. No way would he have played Fabregas in the same way he plays Cleverley. Things need to change tactically, but we need new players actually capable of implementing new tactics.

The_Kew_Tour

lets be honest we were haunted to beat Hull and Norwich too. could very easily lost last 3 games.

irishfeen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

lets be honest we were haunted to beat Hull and Norwich too. could very easily lost last 3 games.

But we actually did enough to beat Spurs, Newcastle and Everton but just didn't have the guile up front.

IamtheWalrus

bullvine wrote: »

we'll need to spend big on both wages and transfers to attract top players. Simple as.

I think this will happen. I can see big money being made available. Utd don't have the Fergie draw so money will have to do it. The ability to attract the big names is questionable but money talks.

Rayne Wooney

I'm really surprised someone like Gary Neville hasn't analysed our play and shown where it's going wrong.

A lot of United supporting friends of mine still think that wing play is fine and we just need to get players back and on form, but it's just not, it's really poison football and it'll take someone like him to say it before the masses agree.

irishfeen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

This season is already a disaster because of their bumbling efforts in the summer. I can't understand how anyone can leave them off this window too - how can you argue we don't need to improve the team right now?

We could go for Alex Sandro and Fernando from Porto right now - with Porto not being in the CL anymore. A talented left back and a great addition to central midfield - Fernando being out of contract in the summer should make negotiations more doable too.

Juventus are also out of the CL so we could possibly do business with them - linked with Vidal - would be a dream signing.

Benfica are out of the CL too - Matic is a player we should be looking at.

Carvalho at Sporting is another option - not in the CL at the moment.

I'm sure there are loads of other players we could quite possible sign in January that would improve our chances of making the CL for next season.

Honestly, if we don't sign a left back and a central midfielder simply because Moyes choses not to, he should be sacked at the end of the season if we don't make the CL - as he will have done nothing to help his case.

As I said yesterday mate - you might be dead right but I refuse not to give Moyes/Woodward a chance to redeem themselves in signings and performances.

beno619

Mitch Connor wrote: »

It is the spin idiots with agendas are putting on it.

Maybe, just maybe, if we had midfielders that could control the tempo of the game and showed for the ball, we wouldn't hoof the ball over them.

Cleverley is playing within himself and Ando isnt getting a look in, these players should be able to play 10 - 15 yeard pass though the middle.

Mitch Connor

MagicIRL wrote: »

Do you think that, if we bring in a creative midfielder, we will see more Kagawa? Shinji in the hole needs supply, which our midfield just can't supply.

No, as long as Rooney and RVP are at the club we won't see Kagawa in the hole much. It simply won't happen.