Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

TheMilkyPirate

bullvine wrote: »

I can't think of anyone currently playing who absolutely loves the club they are playing for.

Gerrard?

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Brilliant! post of 2014 for me.:D

Contender for worst post of the year for me and its only Jan 3rd. Comparing a football club to a cake making machine with old parts?

How many cake making machines have other cake making machines with an equal amount of parts competing against your machine to make the same cake?

That posters analogy made no sense.

bullvine

irishfeen wrote: »

Ryan Giggs?

Obviously! but does he even play anymore

yomtea98

That cake analogy was fuking awful

irishfeen

bullvine wrote: »

Obviously! but does he even play anymore

Unless my eyes are deceiving me ... :pac:... absolute legend!

bucketybuck

LiamoSail wrote: »

Was there a point in introducing that analogy?

There was a very simple point.

A new manager and CEO are appointed. There is a glaring, obvious, serious problem with the company that needs to be addressed, resolving this issue is an absolute priority.

Seven months later the CEO and the manager have not fixed the problem, and the companies performance has suffered massively as a direct result of this.

Simple fact is that in any industry on earth, that CEO is a dead man walking.

He has another opportunity now to rectify that problem, I would suggest he does whatever it takes, he has no room for excuses at this point.

irishfeen

A tough article on Man Utd current state by Jeff Stelling, its hard to hear but honestly could we majorly disagree with anything he says?http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12088/9099714/manchester-united-owners-must-invest-in-world-class-talent-says-jeff-stelling

Next summer, after the World Cup, there will be a lot of players who have performed in Brazil on the market. They'll be going at premium rates, though, so will the Glazers be willing then to put their hands in their pockets to bring in the big signings?

It's not all doom and gloom for United, though. David de Gea, Rafael, Chris Smalling, Phil Jones, Danny Welbeck and Tom Cleverley are all good, young players who are only going to get better. But are any of them really world class? That's what United were used to bringing in before.

Another thing the owners have been guilty of is letting the top class players they had there grow old and diminish without replacing them.

Gary Neville is a classic example, but you could also name Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic and Ryan Giggs, who are still playing, or Paul Scholes - who've they been replaced by? Not like-for-like, nowhere near.

When the Glazers came in everything was in place and a lot of those players were in their pomp so inevitably that decline wasn't going to start immediately. It was going to take a while before the lack of significant major funding - on a par with the other European giants - was going to take effect.

Fergie, in a way, worked a miracle to win the Premier League with the team he had last season. Everyone said at the time 'this is not a great Manchester United side' - and it wasn't.

But it did have a great Manchester United manager who could cajole them into winning the league, while the other teams around them all had significant issues, from Roberto Mancini having a real struggle at Man City and Chelsea throwing managers away like confetti to an Arsenal side reluctant to spend.

I was naïve in believing anybody could repeat that - and I wasn't alone. It wasn't going to happen without the money being pumped back in.

I don't know when it will end because I'm not a financial expert and I don't know about the Glazers passion for the game. But Liverpool were invincible, big players once and they've been away from the top table for a long time. Without the right kind of backing it might be a while before United are the force they were before.

yomtea98

I would disagree that Cleverly is not a good young player

tallaghtmick

Your Airbag wrote: »

Contender for worst post of the year for me and its only Jan 3rd. Comparing a football club to a cake making machine with old parts?

How many cake making machines have other cake making machines with an equal amount of parts competing against your machine to make the same cake?

That posters analogy made no sense.

It was simple and funny, made sense to me.

Nalz

Not tryna be a dick or the internet police but if you don't like someone that much you should probably block\ignore them

And if petty arguments continue it might benefit others not to quote those consistent posters involved

irishfeen

yomtea98 wrote: »

I would disagree that Cleverly is not a good young player

He was asking whether he was "world class" ...

keeponhurling

Problem is that United are current champions so not exactly a broken cake machine.

Also, he had to do his spending before he had a chance to have a proper look at what he was dealing with.

The one problem that is glaringly obvious to an outsider (i.e. lack of a quality midfielder) was identified and he tried to rectify it with moves for Fabregas

I like Moyes, and would give him at least a season or two.

Cantona's Collars

yomtea98 wrote: »

I would disagree that Cleverly is not a good young player

And I would state that he's not going to get better than his current level.

IamtheWalrus

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Gerrard?

irishfeen wrote: »

Ryan Giggs?

2 players from a different generation.

beno619

zerks wrote: »

And I would state that he's not going to get better than his current level.

I would love for him to return to the level of last season.

All the other players mentioned can become world class.

2moreMinutes

I just had a slice of Christmas cake and a cup of tea. I can confirm the problem is most definitely not with the cake making machine.

Backstreet Moyes

bucketybuck wrote: »

There was a very simple point.

A new manager and CEO are appointed. There is a glaring, obvious, serious problem with the company that needs to be addressed, resolving this issue is an absolute priority.

Seven months later the CEO and the manager have not fixed the problem, and the companies performance has suffered massively as a direct result of this.

Simple fact is that in any industry on earth, that CEO is a dead man walking.

He has another opportunity now to rectify that problem, I would suggest he does whatever it takes, he has no room for excuses at this point.

Woodward has shown himself very good at the business side of things. If we fall out of the top 4 it could be his massive sponsorship dealings that means we can still spend big. I would like to keep him around even if it's just for the business side of things and somebody else deals with signings.

People could see it a long way out. We all knew the squad needed big investment. Let's face it we started the season with a manager with no experience at the top level and a CEO who never dealt with signings before. What could go wrong well basically everything. I will give them until after the summer transfer window to redeem themselves after more time in their jobs.

LiamoSail

bucketybuck wrote: »

There was a very simple point.

A new manager and CEO are appointed. There is a glaring, obvious, serious problem with the company that needs to be addressed, resolving this issue is an absolute priority.

Seven months later the CEO and the manager have not fixed the problem, and the companies performance has suffered massively as a direct result of this.

Simple fact is that in any industry on earth, that CEO is a dead man walking.

He has another opportunity now to rectify that problem, I would suggest he does whatever it takes, he has no room for excuses at this point.

As with any industry, the CE is not expected to be an expert in every aspect of the business. It's the CE's responsibility to ensure the structure is there, and competent people in the various fields employed to look after the different aspects of the business.

I think we both agree that Woodward is not an expert in footballing matters, and that Moyes is employed to oversee the football side. Obviously there was a breakdown resulting in a lost opportunity for the club, but this was, if stories are to be believed, the result of an isolated error. It certainly wasn't reported that it was an ongoing issue, or that the CE failed to support the manager throughout the summer.

Woodward ****ed up, I don't disagree with that. What I believe though, obviously contrary to yourself, is that it was an isolated **** up that has led to an ongoing issue, as oppose to ongoing **** ups allowing an ongoing issue to continue

2moreMinutes

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this sentiment that if you have a problem with the club or the way its run makes you a s*it fan seems to be growing more and more on here lately, and its the same few clowns high fiving each other anytime its mentioned.

pathetic s*it.

Generally speaking, I agree with the above. The notion some people have that criticising the club or specific players is in some way being a "bad fan" is bull****. I'm of the opinion that being incapable of seeing any bad due to wearing red tinted glasses is a bigger "crime" as a fan.

Specifically in relation to the back and forths between certain posters, isn't that what life and sport in general are all about? It's a football forum so it'd be pretty boring if one person posted and everyone agreed with them. Due to its nature, there will always be different opinions on football but I'm pretty sure everyone has the same end goal in mind.

Disagreements and ongoing heated debates also help to weed out those who I know are worse fans than me.......:)

IamtheWalrus

2moreMinutes wrote: »

I just had a slice of Christmas cake and a cup of tea. I can confirm the problem is most definitely not with the cake making machine.

My aunt baked us an Xmas cake, without icing. I said 'it's nice but needs icing'. My ma then iced it. What a woman.

2moreMinutes

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

My aunt baked us an Xmas cake, without icing. I said 'it's nice but needs icing'. My ma then iced it. What a woman.

Baby Jesus cries every time someone eats Christmas cake without icing.

onemorechance

United boss David Moyes said England winger Young, 28, would be out "for a time" but unsure exactly how long.

...

Moyes was unable to offer an update on the fitness of striker Robin van Persie, who has missed the last six matches with a thigh injury.

BBC

Your Airbag

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Generally speaking, I agree with the above. The notion some people have that criticising the club or specific players is in some way being a "bad fan" is bull****. I'm of the opinion that being incapable of seeing any bad due to wearing red tinted glasses is a bigger "crime" as a fan.

Specifically in relation to the back and forths between certain posters, isn't that what life and sport in general are all about? It's a football forum so it'd be pretty boring if one person posted and everyone agreed with them. Due to its nature, there will always be different opinions on football but I'm pretty sure everyone has the same end goal in mind.

Disagreements and ongoing heated debates also help to weed out those who I know are worse fans than me.......:)

Who on here thinks like that? I can't think of one. I have seen everyone on here criticising the club, players and managers, both Fergie and Moyes.

I don't think there is one poster on here who hasn't.

There is criticism and then there is creative criticism and then there is pure BS.

Homer has called me pro Moyes & Woodward, and a biased fanboy incapable of seeing UTD do wrong. I have had plenty of criticism on them and the club as everyone else has. Homer likes to label you if you against him because he is incapable of discussion and arrogant enough to think he has a right to talk to people like this.

Because Homer he is getting called out on some of things he has said today he is now taking a "you can't say anything against the club without being called a bad fan" and those of us doing it are worse for the club. Its a typical Homer post painting himself as in the right and doing the best for the club when nobody has said otherwise. He just wont engage in discussion and resorts to these labels.

Newsflash, we have all criticised the club, all of us on here. Because we are not willing to put up with lies, childish digs and calls for Moyes head 6 months in doesn't mean we can't see bad in the club. We are just not prepared to put up with such poor quailty posts with an obvious agenda.

Disagreements and ongoing heated debates also help to weed out those who I know are worse fans than me.....

Are you seriously saying nobody else sees wrong, of course we do but your line above could have come straight Homer. Its amazing when he talks out of his hoop so much that so many people listen to it.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this sentiment that if you have a problem with the club or the way its run makes you a s*it fan seems to be growing more and more on here lately, and its the same few clowns high fiving each other anytime its mentioned.

pathetic s*it.

No. This is in your head. Nobody but you holds that sentiment. None of us are happy with the ways things are going or went in the last window and plenty of us are saying it. Just because we don't want to listen to your digs doesn't mean we can't see wrong.

The level of arrogance and childishness is staggering. Are you really going to try and make the point that we have no problem with the club because we won't listen to your Woodward crap? Everyone on here has plenty of negative things to say about the club but we don't resort to the level you go to because it achieves nothing.

Your already sharpening the knives for Woodward 3 days into the window. Jesus wept.

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

Your already sharpening the knives for Woodward 3 days into the window. Jesus wept.

poor Woodie, im sure he cares that big bully homer called him a clown and other things on boards.ie. jesus wept alright.

ill try find him on Sunday and say sorry to him. would that make you happy?

Lord TSC

Your Airbag wrote: »

Who on here thinks like that? I can't think of one. I have seen everyone on here criticising the club, players and managers, both Fergie and Moyes.

Being honest, there's plenty of people who think like that. Usually pop on after a game and throw round a few comments criticising people who criticise the club, then disappear again when they realise they dont have a leg to stand on.

Mars Bar

Ye can discuss this without the personals thrown around.

tallaghtmick

Jesus, just block each other! I enjoy reading both your posts football related hence why I have not blocked both of you! This here forum is for us to laugh, bitch, moan, celebrate all things united related not personal school yard ****e!

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

poor Woodie, im sure he cares that big bully homer called him a clown and other things on boards.ie. jesus wept alright.

ill try find him on Sunday and say sorry to him. would that make you happy?

Typical Homer reply, doesn't address any of the other points from the post which he has edited down. Only interested in sarcasm.

I sure Woody doesn't care and I don't mind if people think he didn't do a great job last window because he didn't. When people are not willing to listen to your other crap about him doesn't mean we are Pro Woody.

Don't know why I'm bothering, its clear for everyone to see how devoid of actual substance your posts are and you have no intention of replying to other points made directly to you, only trolling.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

this sentiment that if you have a problem with the club or the way its run makes you a s*it fan seems to be growing more and more on here lately, and its the same few clowns high fiving each other anytime its mentioned.

pathetic s*it.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Being honest, there's plenty of people who think like that. Usually pop on after a game and throw round a few comments criticising people who criticise the club, then disappear again when they realise they dont have a leg to stand on.

Okay then Homer and Teamshadowclan. If there are plenty of these people on here who don't see any bad in the club you should have no problem naming at least one?

onemorechance

2moreMinutes

Your Airbag wrote: »

Who on here thinks like that? I can't think of one. I have seen everyone on here criticising the club, players and managers, both Fergie and Moyes.

A few on here do and plenty in other forums and in day to day life do. I wasn't referring to anybody specific on here but rather in general.

As I said in that post, criticising is perfectly fine and to be accepted especially given how we've underperformed this season so far as I'm guessing everyone who does has the same goal of United improving at heart.
Obviously some get more emotional than others with their criticisms and resulting disagreements with others (again, being general here). Arrogance and superiority complexes will always kick in once a debate arises when everyone is convinced they're right.

Are you seriously saying nobody else sees wrong, of course we do but your line above could have come straight Homer.

That line was 100% in jest but I've no idea where the "whoa there I'm only joking" smiley is on my phone

tallaghtmick

Mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods

bucketybuck

LiamoSail wrote: »

As with any industry, the CE is not expected to be an expert in every aspect of the business. It's the CE's responsibility to ensure the structure is there, and competent people in the various fields employed to look after the different aspects of the business.

I don't really disagree, but unfortunately in most industries the buck stops with the guy at the top. How often do you see some minister having to resign because one of his staff ****ed up? They are responsible for the performance of their company, good or bad, thats why they get the big saleries.

Anyway, it was just a simple analogy to show that the criticism Woodward was getting was not exactly out of line with what any CEO should expect. Woodward and Moyes are in charge of a big company that is massively underperforming, a company that has glaring problems that have not been addressed. They are under pressure, and frankly, they damn well should be.

Woodward ****ed up, I don't disagree with that. What I believe though, obviously contrary to yourself, is that it was an isolated **** up that has led to an ongoing issue, as oppose to ongoing **** ups allowing an ongoing issue to continue

Again, time will tell on this. But what Woodward/Moyes cannot do is let this transfer window pass without taking action, they no longer have the luxury of claiming there is no value in the market. January is a really ****ty time to buy players but they have no choice, they need to act. Its nobodies fault but their own, if they had made better use of the summer transfer window they would not be in this situation.

2moreMinutes

I really sounded like a Mother Teresa/Ghandi type in that last post.

Mars Bar

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods mods

You want our attention? Use the report function.

Your Airbag

2moreMinutes wrote: »

A few on here do and plenty in other forums and in day to day life do. I wasn't referring to anybody specific on here but rather in general.

As I said in that post, criticising is perfectly fine and to be accepted especially given how we've underperformed this season so far as I'm guessing everyone who does has the same goal of United improving at heart.
Obviously some get more emotional than others with their criticisms and resulting disagreements with others (again, being general here). Arrogance and superiority complexes will always kick in once a debate arises when everyone is convinced they're right.


That line was 100% in jest but I've no idea where the "whoa there I'm only joking" smiley is on my phone

No I can't think of one and its no suprise that Homer hasn't replied to the question because he threw this "some fans see no bad in the club" line after a few differing opinions came his way because thats how he rolls. He avoids discussion and favors making up stuff. He was directing that at me anyway and nothing could be further from the truth.

He won't answer anyway, there is no answer, he made it up.

That line did strike me as odd, but as you say it was on jest, apologies.

MagicIRL

tallaghtmick wrote: »

What like report loads of comments a few you have blatantly seen and done nothing on?

Yeh that will work.

tallaghtmick

MagicIRL wrote: »

Im sorry but im sick of reading the petty **** between homer and airbag, if a warning/ban on my behalf gets their attention then so be it.

kryogen

homerjay2005 wrote: »

apologies for bringing up more stats, but this one is very telling -



where is intensity gone? is this as a result of training methods or just a lack of drive in the players?

Thats an odd one, I always thought we were too lax under Fergie with regards to getting about the opposition, and initially under Moyes I remember remarking that it was great to see a greater level of intensity out there...

Could it be anything to do with improved possession of the ball this season?

beno619

kryogen wrote: »

Thats an odd one, I always thought we were too lax under Fergie with regards to getting about the opposition, and initially under Moyes I remember remarking that it was great to see a greater level of intensity out there...

Could it be anything to do with improved possession of the ball this season?

Yeah maybe, that was one of the things I looked forward to us doing more under Moyes, but as you have said we have had a lot of the football in games.

Rayne Wooney

There has been an increase in possession but it's basically nothing possession.

In our own half and about 20/30 yards in our opponents half on each wing is where we have most of this extra possession.

tallaghtmick

Are we on tv for the cup?

KevIRL

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Are we on tv for the cup?

Bt1 yep

tallaghtmick

KevIRL wrote: »

Bt1 yep

Feck the channel I dont have

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

I don't really disagree, but unfortunately in most industries the buck stops with the guy at the top. How often do you see some minister having to resign because one of his staff ****ed up? They are responsible for the performance of their company, good or bad, thats why they get the big saleries.

Anyway, it was just a simple analogy to show that the criticism Woodward was getting was not exactly out of line with what any CEO should expect. Woodward and Moyes are in charge of a big company that is massively underperforming, a company that has glaring problems that have not been addressed. They are under pressure, and frankly, they damn well should be.


Again, time will tell on this. But what Woodward/Moyes cannot do is let this transfer window pass without taking action, they no longer have the luxury of claiming there is no value in the market. January is a really ****ty time to buy players but they have no choice, they need to act. Its nobodies fault but their own, if they had made better use of the summer transfer window they would not be in this situation.

It probably goes without saying but it seems fairly likely that there may be a slight difference between what soccer fans think Woodward ought to be doing and what the people who employ him think he ought to be doing.

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Im sorry but im sick of reading the petty **** between homer and airbag, if a warning/ban on my behalf gets their attention then so be it.

I'm sure your not the only one sick of it but this had the opportunity to be put to bed if Homer actually answered some of the questions put to him, instead he chose insult and to edit others posts in his replies to suit himself.

One poster said he had anger issues and will label anyone a clown that goes against his opinion. This is very true, yesterday I was called a "childish fanboy" for saying we could attract top players, painting my opinion out to be delusional. Today he wants Woodward out if we don't get two top players in? See the contradiction. He often labels me pro Woodward & Moyes when my posts regarding the opposite are there for all to see. I'd ask you what would you do if another poster continually tried to paint this false picture of you? He has offered nothing but insults today,

Besides labelling fans muppetts before, now today according to him there is a section of fans that see nothing wrong with the club at all. This is completly false. He has been asked to name one and surprise surprise he hasn't. You may be happy for one poster to act in such a manner and paint a picture based on lies of those who disagree with him and to label entire sections "muppets" and others as so blinkered that can see no wrong with UTD, but many of us are not ok with this.

I'd ask for a higher standard and thankfully some have engaged him today and called him on this when its only him snipping me. I'm surprised the mods haven't called him of any of this and how he is continually allowed to do this. Its a disgrace tbh.

The thread contains a lot more good debate, posters and common sense than the sour picture homer paints when he is not agreed with.

kryogen

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

2 players from a different generation.

Totti
De Rossi
Carlos Gurpegui
Andoni Iraola
Iker Casillas
Buffon
Xavi
Iniesta
Puyol
Sergio
Messi


I could go on but Im running a clean up thing and it told me to close my browser

Mars Bar

tallaghtmick wrote: »

What like report loads of comments a few you have blatantly seen and done nothing on?

Yeh that will work.

Ironic look who thanked your post.

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Im sorry but im sick of reading the petty **** between homer and airbag, if a warning/ban on my behalf gets their attention then so be it.

I'll entertain you just this once. Argue with this one on thread and you will get a yellow. Otherwise, bring it to PM.

As of the time of your "mods mods mods" post. I had 0 reported posts in my email. A big fat 0.

Secondly, they are allowed debate it so long as it's civil. Headbangingly boring for you? Ignore them or skip past the posts.

DM_7

beno619 wrote: »

He has not handled RVP and Rooney well, depending on if you believe playing half fit players is good or not regardless of who the players are.

Given the last few pages i hope this doesn't come across as horribly rude -

Footballers carry knocks all the time, the injuries have to be managed and part of that is asking players to play through it. Its not a new policy invented by Moyes.

RVP for example has a voice that could say / no I don't think I can play with this injury. United have a medical and fitness team there that would advise on if an injury can be played through or not.

I don't agree at all that players getting a few injuries automatically adds up to Moyes fault when he did nothing particularly different than the norm.