Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

kryogen

GSPfan wrote: »

Why? I just think he was fecked from the start. He is a victim of circumstance. I think everyone in the media are waiting for him to fail because he doesn't have the credentials for the job.

Oh he is on a hiding to nothing alright, anyone following on from Fergie was really. To compare a guy who has 3 LMA manager of the season awards and such consistency with Everton over 11 years to Steve Kean is awful.

bucketybuck

Fabio Coentrao only played 16 games last season and only 4 games so far this season. He is the Fabio of the Real Madrid team, a fringe squad player.

I would expect any competent negotiator to be able to get him for around €5/6million. Don't forget that in recent seasons Real Madrid sold other squad players such as Diarra, Altintop, Sahin, and Garay all for less than €5million each. They even let Kaka go on a free. They can be dealt with for reasonable prices.

As such the reported price of €12m offered by United is probably accurate. No doubt they will offer a few million more to seal the deal on deadline day.

DM_7

The mirror say Madrid have told Coentrao can leave for 12 million. Mendes is said to be asking United about him (according to the mirror). Stock photo man probably took it from that.

GSPfan

kryogen wrote: »

Oh he is on a hiding to nothing alright, anyone following on from Fergie was really. To compare a guy who has 3 LMA manager of the season awards and such consistency with Everton over 11 years to Steve Kean is awful.

See as usual you read stuff and put your own spin on it. In the absence of detail you jump straight to conclusions.
I'm not saying he is as bad as Steve Kean or Brian Kerr but both those managers had 1 high profile job and from the word go they were under the microscope. Both of them were handed a chance when most people wondered if they were up to it. Roy Hodgson at Liverpool and Steve McClaren at England also spring to mind if that is an easier comparison for you to accept.

titan18

kryogen wrote: »

Thats old, and it was said very much tongue in cheek at the time.

He said it again it seems. It's being reported all over the place anyway

Will I Amnt

jebus84 wrote: »

All the man utd facebook accounts have fallen for it aswell

They're not real either. Nothing is real, don't believe anything you see or hear. This conversation never happened... or did it? POOF!! Where's he gone :eek:

DM_7

To be fair Coentrao had closer to 30 games last season and over 30 the season before (including league and cup).

He played in 16 of Reals Champions league games in those seasons.

Had a few injuries this season and is genuinely second choice, but I can't see 4 months being second choice making his value fall below double digits.

ShaneU

bucketybuck wrote: »

I would expect any competent negotiator to be able to get him for around €5/6million. Don't forget that in recent seasons Real Madrid sold other squad players such as Diarra, Altintop, Sahin, and Garay all for less than €5million each. They even let Kaka go on a free. They can be dealt with for reasonable prices.

Sahin is still at Madrid ?

jebus84

ShaneU wrote: »

Sahin is still at Madrid ?

at Borussia Dortmund on loan last 2 years

ShaneU

Didn't sell him though

kryogen

bucketybuck wrote: »

Fabio Coentrao only played 16 games last season and only 4 games so far this season. He is the Fabio of the Real Madrid team, a fringe squad player.

I would expect any competent negotiator to be able to get him for around €5/6million. Don't forget that in recent seasons Real Madrid sold other squad players such as Diarra, Altintop, Sahin, and Garay all for less than €5million each. They even let Kaka go on a free. They can be dealt with for reasonable prices.

As such the reported price of €12m offered by United is probably accurate. No doubt they will offer a few million more to seal the deal on deadline day.

Never mind not selling them for less then 5million euro each!

They havent sold Sahin
They sold Garay for 5.5mil and got 50% of the next transfer fee on Garay and something else I think
Diarra was sold for about 5 mil alright, he wanted to go, he wasnt wanted at the club and it was Jose, he doesnt care about getting money from transfers (particularly from players he wont be including)
Altintop- wanted to go to Turkey, was I think 30 at the time, or at least very close to it, Madrid had picked him up on a free transfer, he was never commanding much of a fee
Kaka could only be shifted if he was let go free and they wanted him off the wage bill to bring in Bale, he was also 31 at the time and hadnt exactly been setting the world alight, his salary demands rule out a transfer fee and since Madrid needed rid they didnt mind, thats all that was about.

Coentrao is still young, clearly has sale value, he cost them 30 million and they will get about half that back I imagine, his market value right now is about 15-18 million, if Baines is 25 at the age of 29 then that aint too bad really is it.

To say he should be got for 5/6 million is a joke surely?

Saying he is the Fabio of Madrid is another joke I assume

kryogen

GSPfan wrote: »

See as usual you read stuff and put your own spin on it. In the absence of detail you jump straight to conclusions.
I'm not saying he is as bad as Steve Kean or Brian Kerr but both those managers had 1 high profile job and from the word go they were under the microscope. Both of them were handed a chance when most people wondered if they were up to it. Roy Hodgson at Liverpool and Steve McClaren at England also spring to mind if that is an easier comparison for you to accept.

Hodgson would have been a much better comparison alright then Steve Kean!

It was an awful comparison, but lets not get hung up on it. Not a big deal.

I took you up slightly wrong also, at least you werent comparing them record wise or ability wise. He may very well be out of his depth, but Ill give him time to sink or swim.

bucketybuck

kryogen wrote: »

Never mind not selling them for less then 5million euro each!

They havent sold Sahin
They sold Garay for 5.5mil and got 50% of the next transfer fee on Garay and something else I think
Diarra was sold for about 5 mil alright, he wanted to go, he wasnt wanted at the club and it was Jose, he doesnt care about getting money from transfers (particularly from players he wont be including)
Altintop- wanted to go to Turkey, was I think 3

Garay was 4.8m according to the site I checked, Diarra 4.4m.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/real-madrid/transfers/verein_418_2011_default_default_alle_a_default.html

It listed Sahin as a departure and I never checked any deeper because it doesn't change my point in the slightest, Madrid are a club that can be dealt with and have shown that they sell players at reasonable prices, unlike Spurs for example. They sold Van Der Vaart for only €9m for example.

Coentrao is a squad player only at Madrid and by all accounts he was very close to being allowed to leave on loan during the summer. I see no reason why a competent negotiator should not be able to get him for far less than the figures being thrown around.

And by the way, nobody with half a brain would pay €25m for Baines at the age of 29, so that comparison is pretty worthless.

kryogen

Your setting yourself up for a fall there so, Madrid are not too bad to buy players from, regularly letting good players go for under their value, but to suggest it will be 5/6million is nuts, hey dont get me wrong, Id like it if they were that nuts, though I suspect that since we clearly were interested in him that figure would be agreed already.

You are right nobody in their right mind would pay 25 million for Baines, and all I can do is hope Moyes is in his right mind.

The comparison is roughly as worthless as a claim that a team got under 5 million for selling a player they havent even sold I guess.

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/ezequiel-garay/transfers/spieler_35939.html

You will find far more sources quoting the fee at 5.5million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezequiel_Garay

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2013/07/14/manchester-united-agree-17-2million-fee-with-benfica-for-ezequiel-garay/

I dont disagree with your main point that Madrid are reasonable when it comes to selling players, but the fee I would have to say is dreamland stuff.

kryogen

Your problem is the site, you are co.uk, so the price you see is in pound sterling. In your post you used the euro sign though.

yabadabado

If Coentrao can be got for anything around €10-12m it is a good deal.Good age(26 soon) so United should get the best years out of him,he has lost his way a bit in the year but he was very impressive for Benfica/Real for a few seasons and no reason why get could get that form back again.Plenty of players have left Real and got out of their slump and had excellent careers .

yabadabado

kryogen wrote: »

Surely a bid will be made for Fernando of Porto? Out of contract in 6 months and no sign of signing a new deal, wouldnt cost a bomb either given the circumstance

We are linked of course, but we are linked with most players!

Edit: to my knowledge he was also absent from the Porto team today, possibly on the move? Probably not to us of course, probably end up at Liverpool

Another player who would be a huge addition to the squad and would be relatively cheap.He has been an ever present in the league and CL for them but he may have been just rested today as it was the cup.

2moreMinutes

Am I the only one who could not care any less about how much a player is bought for?

I get the concern in relation to budgets for transfers, wage budgets etc but surely if the guys in charge of those budgets ok a deal, it's not really of any great concern to the fans in terms of oh my god, they overpaid for blah blah blah??

It's all great fun of course discussing transfer fees but potentially losing the use of yourself cos more was paid than your personal valuation seems a little weird to me.

yabadabado

2moreMinutes wrote: »

Am I the only one who could not care any less about how much a player is bought for?

I get the concern in relation to budgets for transfers, wage budgets etc but surely if the guys in charge of those budgets ok a deal, it's not really of any great concern to the fans in terms of oh my god, they overpaid for blah blah blah??

It's all great fun of course discussing transfer fees but potentially losing the use of yourself cos more was paid than your personal valuation seems a little weird to me.

I would be similar to yourself but at most clubs there are budgets so its always in your head that overpaying for player Y means players X cant be bought.
BTW I would play Y in CM he is just what we need.:P

Mitch Connor

If moyes is telling the truth about no January business then he can feck right off - no business being united manager when he is either as blind or incapable of seeing the mess he has us in. #moyesout

yabadabado

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If moyes is telling the truth about no January business then he can feck right off - no business being united manager when he is either as blind or incapable of seeing the mess he has us in. #moyesout

has to be a smokescreen.Jaysus it better be.:mad:

Mitch Connor

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Give Moyes time (Or has everybody already forgotten Sir Alex Ferguson's speech after the Swansea game at the end of last season), his first season as Man United manager wasn't going to be easy, he'll come good when he's found his feet & gotten used to his new surroundings.

United will be back where they belong after this season (sitting on top of the Barclay's Premier League)

it certainly isn't going to be easy when he mismanages the squad and fecks up one window through ineptitude and a second deliberately. Feck him, he deserves no blind faith and has not done a single thing to earn any trust, respect or faith from me.

yabadabado

The biggest problem I have with his comments were its as easy to say something along the lines of the Club are actively pursuing a few players and if a player can be brought in who will add to the squad they will be.
Maybe he has been told he is out unless he get CL spot and won't get founding until then.:eek:

kryogen

Mitch Connor wrote: »

it certainly isn't going to be easy when he mismanages the squad and fecks up one window through ineptitude and a second deliberately. Feck him, he deserves no blind faith and has not done a single thing to earn any trust, respect or faith from me.

I call bs on this right here, and I would have expected better from you.

Not a single thing you say? I simply dont believe that. You may have your issues with how he has performed in his first 6 months in the job, hell Im pretty sure everyone does, I certainly know I do, but to say he has not done one single thing to earn any trust, any respect or any faith is something I cant believe.

Getting Rooney to stay during the summer count for nothing? Not holding Adnan back, giving him the game time he deserves counts for nothing? Actually buying a centre midfielder that improves the squad counts for nothing?

There are more, but do those 3 things really count for nothing to you? Do you have not one iota of respect for how the Rooney situation was handled? How a young player with talent was trusted and put into the action etc

You have gone over the edge my friend, the total opposition to the manager is colouring every opinion you form on the subject. Is it too much to ask that the manager gets the support of the "fans" during what was obviously going to be an incredibly difficult period, let alone having to bed in a new CE too who is more used to dealing with corporate sponsors?

I find it incredible that I was one of the more opposed to the appointment in the first place that I am having to defend him to what I would have considered level headed posters before this season. Not everything is David Moyes fault. Has he done enough to show me he is the right choice yet? **** no, but its been 6 months, 6 rough months full of injury, individual player error and managerial mistakes, maybe we could do what we often preach about doing with young players, stick with them through the growing pains and reap the benefits long term, he may never be the man to lead this club to glory but people calling for his head already do need to take a step back and think about whether they actually consider themselves to be fans of the club or maybe they were fans of the consistent success the club had for so long.

/mini rant

F.J.

Rooney asked if he was happy at United and refused to answer
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ATLP-RnURU

I agree with the poster who wants him gone and the reasons he stated for wanting him gone.

Mikeyt086

Just had a thought.

If we do end up signing Fabio Coentrao, does anybody else think that could be exactly what Nani needs to kick on? Apparently they are very good friends (if you believe the story that Nani had to hold Coentrao who was crying when he didn't sign on deadline day, then VERY good friends) and would know each other's game. Nani has been playing well for Portugal, so maybe that chemistry on the pitch is what is missing and Nani on the left at his best would actually solve 2 problems in the squad with 1 signing.

Picture if you will an on form 2011 Nani playing in this team:

---

De Gea
Rafael--Vidic--Evans--Coentrao

---

Carrick-Cleverley
Januzaj---Rooney

---

Nani

---

Van Persie

Nice.

If the report that the Mirror have printed is true and Madrid will accept £12m then we should bite their hand off.

The_Kew_Tour

Hopefully we get this late Santa present this week.

onemorechance

From manutd.com on January 1st:

... "We always look to the Academy, first and foremost, to see if we can bring players through. Who are the next ones possibly coming up to the first team? That's the first thing we look at and, after that, we will go out if we've not got a position covered, and then try to find something out there either better than what we've got or will push what we've got."

When asked if he would be relaxed if he has not added to the squad when this month's transfer window closes, Moyes replied: "I don't know if I'd use that word. I would say I'd liked to do something and tried to do something. We'll try to get close to doing something if possible."

...

Mitch Connor

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If moyes is telling the truth about no January business then he can feck right off - no business being united manager when he is either as blind or incapable of seeing the mess he has us in. #moyesout

If I was Man Utd manager and had some potential deals lined up, but not confirmed yet, I'd lie and say nothing about it; I'd say there's no business happening. Then BAM, mudafúcking midfielders jump out from everywhere, from the ceiling, from underneath the floor, air vents, EVERYWHERE. One of the reporters would even rip off a fake moustache and reveal himself to be Fabregas, he'd give everyone the finger, eat an Arsenal jersey then rip off all his clothes to reveal a Man Utd Jersey with his name on it and a pair of Eric Cantona underwear. #JustSayin

SherlockWatson

Sacramento wrote: »

If I was Man Utd manager and had some potential deals lined up, but not confirmed yet, I'd lie and say nothing about it; I'd say there's no business happening. Then BAM, mudafúcking midfielders jump out from everywhere, from the ceiling, from underneath the floor, air vents, EVERYWHERE. One of the reporters would even rip off a fake moustache and reveal himself to be Fabregas, he'd give everyone the finger, eat an Arsenal jersey then rip off all his clothes to reveal a Man Utd Jersey with his name on it and a pair of Eric Cantona underwear. #JustSayin

You've certainly earned my faith.


#MoyesOutSacramentoIn

Headshot

Moyes has broken utd and now broke boards.ie

Lord TSC

And we're back.

Another match, another set of excuses.

Hank Scorpio

4th home defeat in 6 games

Hank Scorpio

double post

Montroseee

Every cloud has a silver lining - this will be the last game for some of the dross. Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal have had to ship a large amount of dead weight out in recent years. Adios Fabio, Buttner, Kagawa etc., it has not been good.

titan18

That was so poor today. For once, it'd be nice to come on after a match and want to post nice things. Stadium was so empty looking towards the end

Unearthly

Its not working and never will.

As pointed out before perhaps if the performances were good and you could see progress was being made then time would be given.

Instead its turgid, one dimensional football.

Headshot

How a manager that has turned PL winners into crap we have seen this season is astonishing. It should be in Ripley's Believe It or Not vault

kryogen

I feel somewhat ashamed for going ahead and backing that result, but if Im honest I am happier to be out of the cup since it was the 3rd round and the team needs to be focusing on the league first and foremost, also it really does spell out surely to anyone at the club who may not have been convinced, transfers are needed in this window. The morale must be so low at the club, new blood, fresh impetus should help with the raising of it

Saw most of the game, first half we were the usual, pretty much in total control but not making or taking chances, sending off really let them take control, didnt see it yet, what in the name of God did he do? When I saw him come on and after a couple of minutes play I thought, great he is showing already why he should be in the team if Rafael isnt and should certainly be pushing for starts at left back! Then I went to make some food and he is gone by the time I came back.

This result on its own is not a big deal to me, but the overall picture is looking bleak. Things need to improve and soon or its going to be harder to gain any momentum going in to the second half of the season. I know players were rested and many of them injured and Swansea are capable of playing good football, but they are a team in poor form and we should have been putting them away, of course Cleverley played when there was no need, would much rather seeing Anderson there today even just for the minutes, genuinely its not as if he will have any less impact then TC23

Big pressure will be on Moyes now, important to get the win Tuesday, raise the spirits and ease the pressure a little

syngindub

watched the game earlier, utterly boring, lacked ( creativity, belief, ideas, management, chances, composure, skill)

kryogen

I feel somewhat ashamed for going ahead and backing that result, but if Im honest I am happier to be out of the cup since it was the 3rd round and the team needs to be focusing on the league first and foremost, also it really does spell out surely to anyone at the club who may not have been convinced, transfers are needed in this window. The morale must be so low at the club, new blood, fresh impetus should help with the raising of it

Saw most of the game, first half we were the usual, pretty much in total control but not making or taking chances, sending off really let them take control, didnt see it yet, what in the name of God did he do? When I saw him come on and after a couple of minutes play I thought, great he is showing already why he should be in the team if Rafael isnt and should certainly be pushing for starts at left back! Then I went to make some food and he is gone by the time I came back.

This result on its own is not a big deal to me, but the overall picture is looking bleak. Things need to improve and soon or its going to be harder to gain any momentum going in to the second half of the season. I know players were rested and many of them injured and Swansea are capable of playing good football, but they are a team in poor form and we should have been putting them away, of course Cleverley played when there was no need, would much rather seeing Anderson there today even just for the minutes, genuinely its not as if he will have any less impact then TC23

Big pressure will be on Moyes now, important to get the win Tuesday, raise the spirits and ease the pressure a little

syngindub

watched the game earlier, utterly boring, lacked ( creativity, belief, ideas, management, chances, composure, skill, guile, courage, add more here....)

This is not man utd, is it

Aidric

Strange times being a Utd supporter. The cracks were held together by Ferguson but now they are pouring open in Moyes face.

Liam O

You'd think the current situation would be enough to fire up the players but there is still no motivation at all. The fact that it's mainly the older players is the most worrying thing. It's like they think they've achieved everything and have nothing left to prove. Moyes needs to make wholesale changes both in this window and looking towards the Summer imo. I don't care if he takes 3 or 4 players out of the academy at this stage, the ones he has playing now aren't showing any desire or fluidity at all.

kryogen

I feel somewhat ashamed for going ahead and backing that result, but if Im honest I am happier to be out of the cup since it was the 3rd round and the team needs to be focusing on the league first and foremost, also it really does spell out surely to anyone at the club who may not have been convinced, transfers are needed in this window. The morale must be so low at the club, new blood, fresh impetus should help with the raising of it

Saw most of the game, first half we were the usual, pretty much in total control but not making or taking chances, sending off really let them take control, didnt see it yet, what in the name of God did he do? When I saw him come on and after a couple of minutes play I thought, great he is showing already why he should be in the team if Rafael isnt and should certainly be pushing for starts at left back! Then I went to make some food and he is gone by the time I came back.

This result on its own is not a big deal to me, but the overall picture is looking bleak. Things need to improve and soon or its going to be harder to gain any momentum going in to the second half of the season. I know players were rested and many of them injured and Swansea are capable of playing good football, but they are a team in poor form and we should have been putting them away, of course Cleverley played when there was no need, would much rather seeing Anderson there today even just for the minutes, genuinely its not as if he will have any less impact then TC23

Big pressure will be on Moyes now, important to get the win Tuesday, raise the spirits and ease the pressure a little

kryogen

I feel somewhat ashamed for going ahead and backing that result, but if Im honest I am happier to be out of the cup since it was the 3rd round and the team needs to be focusing on the league first and foremost, also it really does spell out surely to anyone at the club who may not have been convinced, transfers are needed in this window. The morale must be so low at the club, new blood, fresh impetus should help with the raising of it

Saw most of the game, first half we were the usual, pretty much in total control but not making or taking chances, sending off really let them take control, didnt see it yet, what in the name of God did he do? When I saw him come on and after a couple of minutes play I thought, great he is showing already why he should be in the team if Rafael isnt and should certainly be pushing for starts at left back! Then I went to make some food and he is gone by the time I came back.

This result on its own is not a big deal to me, but the overall picture is looking bleak. Things need to improve and soon or its going to be harder to gain any momentum going in to the second half of the season. I know players were rested and many of them injured and Swansea are capable of playing good football, but they are a team in poor form and we should have been putting them away, of course Cleverley played when there was no need, would much rather seeing Anderson there today even just for the minutes, genuinely its not as if he will have any less impact then TC23

Big pressure will be on Moyes now, important to get the win Tuesday, raise the spirits and ease the pressure a little

Mitch Connor

Moyes needs to take action as soon as possible.

He needs to demand United back him with some transfers. He needs to get shot of some of the deadwood, he needs to bring in some players right now.

United can't continue the way things are, and Moyes can't stand by and allow it to. It is him the buck will untimately stop with.

Mitch Connor

Moyes needs to take action as soon as possible.

He needs to demand United back him with some transfers. He needs to get shot of some of the deadwood, he needs to bring in some players right now.

United can't continue the way things are, and Moyes can't stand by and allow it to. It is him the buck will untimately stop with.

irishfeen

There were players across the pitch today who should not grace the Old Trafford turf again. Kagawa, Valencia and Cleverly were just beyond awful yet again.

irishfeen

There were players across the pitch today who should not grace the Old Trafford turf again. Kagawa, Valencia and Cleverly were just beyond awful yet again.