Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

bucketybuck

irishfeen wrote: »

Well that's your opinion, we have to face the fact that areas of or team have been neglected for quiet some time and without major investment any manager would struggle.

The fact that Fergie badly neglected areas of that team is the single thing saving Moyes right now as far as I am concerned, because apart from that one fact he hasn't done a single thing right so far.

beno619 wrote: »

Fergie saved us having to spend 30 mill on CB's in the future.

What, by spending nearly 30 mill now? (Jones 16.5m + Smalling 10m+)

listermint

adox wrote: »

Turn what around. The complete mess he's made of managing the team? Build his own team? He's inherited a championship winning squad. Yes it needs improvement. The midfield debate has been done to death but the thought of him building a new Manchester United team is scary.

I don't think it will happen. His days are numbered. He will be sacked eventually. Perhaps not in the summer or even Christmas but eventually it will have gone too far.

You won the league but christ do you really think you've some sort of wonder team. Last year's league was awful you played awful and eeked out wins playing ugly football. Rub of the green and SAF all over. The way you're going on you were challenging for champions league winners. Jesus man. It's been in some decline for a while. moyes hasn't done this.

Thatsfootball

Bad result and more or less everything has been said about it. But one issue is very clear when Kagawa plays on the left; that he drifts centrally alot. At times today the midfield looked like:
Valencia Fletcher Cleverley.........
............Kagawa
........Welbeck Hernandez

It leaves the left side very open for attacks, in fairness Buttner had a good game, but other times the tactics won't work and the right winger and defender will do a lot of damage.
It's nothing against Kagawa, I just feel he should be either playing behind the striker or not at all.

To a different point, the teams that have done well against us this season have nearly all been high pressing and/or quick passing sides. Teams like Soton, Shakhtar, Swansea, City, Newcastle (for high pressing).

Also about the rumoured agreed fee for Salah? Would he be a good signing?

Lord TSC

irishfeen wrote: »

So if we miss out on CL football the doors of OT will close? :eek: ... get real, United are a business - different plans and scenarios will (like any business) have been draw up to cope with every eventuality.

Agree here.

Though my guess is that it's...

Scenario: "We don't qualify for Europe".
Plan: "Boot Moyes out the door and find out what Fergie was smoking when he made the recommendation!"

ThunbergsAreGo

beno619 wrote: »

Jones is 21 still, him and Smalling are far from the problem, along with Evans there the future of our defense.

Fergie saved us having to spend 30 mill on CB's in the future.

By spending 30m in the past?

mitosis

adox wrote: »

We all know that Ferguson overachieved with the squad last season but I refuse to believe that they have found their level this season. The squad ain't this bad.

You know, I'm old enough to remember when that Big Ron chap ran Man U, in fact even when the Doc did. I strongly suspect few if any of the regulars here have ever supported a club that wasn't winning all the time.

Where the club on the field is now is pretty much where it always was traditionally, bar about six seasons, until the Ferguson years. The Ferguson years can be seen as extraordinary, and now they have ended so do the extraordinary achievements.

Twenty six years of overachievement are done. It might well be a long time again before a period of success graces this club.

adox

listermint wrote: »

You won the league but christ do you really think you've some sort of wonder team. Last year's league was awful you played awful and eeked out wins playing ugly football. Rub of the green and SAF all over. The way you're going on you were challenging for champions league winners. Jesus man. It's been in some decline for a while. moyes hasn't done this.

Did you even read what I posted?

irishfeen

adox wrote: »

Turn what around. The complete mess he's made of managing the team? Build his own team? He's inherited a championship winning squad. Yes it needs improvement. The midfield debate has been done to death but the thought of him building a new Manchester United team is scary.

I don't think it will happen. His days are numbered. He will be sacked eventually. Perhaps not in the summer or even Christmas but eventually it will have gone too far.

You may be right! - I can't say you will be proven right/wrong but i'll give him a chance to turn things around ... as I said I'll give him until Christmas next year until I call for his head.

listermint

adox wrote: »

Did you even read what I posted?

Yes you think moyes is causing all the problems and refuse to acknowledge the problems were already there. Is that the jist of it.


You hate moyes.

Call Me Jimmy

Say Moyes is in charge at the summer and say champions league has not been secured, would that mean less transfer money? Or would they give him one summer of getting players in and give him that season and if still outside the champions league he's a gonner?

Unearthly

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

People go on about not wanting to be a joke like other clubs cause we might embarrass ourselves.

Think people might want to notice the growing majority of the "Don't sack Moyes" sentimentality is coming from Non-United fans...

Its not comparable at all to other teams that people laugh at.

People laughed at Chelsea when they sacked Mourinho, Ancelotti, Di Matteo. Managers who won them everything in the game.

People laughed at Real Madrid when they sacked a few of their managers even after just winning the league.

And then people laugh at some of the clubs who get promoted, and are comfortably safe from relegation yet sack their manager.

No one laughs when a manager genuinely deserves to be sacked.its increasingly looking like Moyes and United are not a proper fit and only keeping him in the job as some sort of idealistic view he will eventually create the next dynasty is foolish

beno619

bucketybuck wrote: »

What, by spending nearly 30 mill now? (Jones 16.5m + Smalling 10m+)

Sorry meant to say on a single CB, Smalling and Jones will be world class imo.

bryangiggsy

irishfeen wrote: »

So if we miss out on CL football the doors of OT will close? :eek: ... get real, United are a business - different plans and scenarios will (like any business) have been draw up to cope with every eventuality.

No the point is lost on u. The glazers will happily flush 100 million away and keep moyes in his job while he orchestrates it. Get real.

adox

mitosis wrote: »

You know, I'm old enough to remember when that Big Ron chap ran Man U, in fact even when the Doc did. I strongly suspect few if any of the regulars here have ever supported a club that wasn't winning all the time.

Where the club on the field is now is pretty much where it always was traditionally, bar about six seasons, until the Ferguson years. The Ferguson years can be seen as extraordinary, and now they have ended so do the extraordinary achievements.

Twenty six years of overachievement are done. It might well be a long time again before a period of success graces this club.

Well I'm old enough to remember those days too.

I find the rest of your post bizarre. We were top ten material for a few years before Fergie came on board therefore when he leaves we automatically return to that position?

I'm just not having that. It's a bizarre thing to say.

irishfeen

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Agree here.

Though my guess is that it's...

Scenario: "We don't qualify for Europe".
Plan: "Boot Moyes out the door and find out what Fergie was smoking when he made the recommendation!"

SAF not returning is probably the only certainty going into the future..

magnumbud

SherlockWatson wrote: »

We're too shít for him at the moment.


I don't know what people expect him to do when the service to him is woeful, and the movement in front of him is nonexistent.

his touch and work rate has been poor most games he has played thats not other players faults this his. he has played in games with RVP and rooney 2 of the best strikers in the league and failed to create for them. im not saying he cant improve but your statement is ludicrous

adox

listermint wrote: »

You hate moyes.

You couldnt make this **** up.


Carry on.

GSPfan

mitosis wrote: »

You know, I'm old enough to remember when that Big Ron chap ran Man U, in fact even when the Doc did. I strongly suspect few if any of the regulars here have ever supported a club that wasn't winning all the time.

Where the club on the field is now is pretty much where it always was traditionally, bar about six seasons, until the Ferguson years. The Ferguson years can be seen as extraordinary, and now they have ended so do the extraordinary achievements.

Twenty six years of overachievement are done. It might well be a long time again before a period of success graces this club.

What?

So United are a Mid table team who were blessed with 26 years of over achievement? What?

Gringo180

Yous just arent as good as you think yous are. Your perhaps a place or 2 below where yous should be in the league but you would expect that with a new manager coming in. A club like Man Utd with only 2 true world class players in there whole squad?? Ferguson has a lot to answrr for in my book he let that team rot, instead of fixing the midfield he went out and bought van persie to paper ocer the cracks because he knew he was gone the following season.

adox

Unearthly wrote: »

No one laughs when a manager genuinely deserves to be sacked.its increasingly looking like Moyes and United are not a proper fit and only keeping him in the job as some sort of idealistic view he will eventually create the next dynasty is foolish

Nail on the ****ing head in one paragraph.

kona

Forget 4th if we keep this ****e up we won't even get "Channel 5 Thursday nights"

irishfeen

Unearthly wrote: »

No one laughs when a manager genuinely deserves to be sacked.its increasingly looking like Moyes and United are not a proper fit and only keeping him in the job as some sort of idealistic view he will eventually create the next dynasty is foolish

How can you say Moyes should be sacked after half a season in charge, being unbeaten in the CL, Semi final of the league cup, went on a 6 game unbeaten run a few games ago and had to deal with a new chief executive who was unable to do his job in the one transfer window he was at the club? ...

Will people please give this man the season at least for fcuk sake....

beno619

kona wrote: »

Forget 4th if we keep this ****e up we won't even get "Channel 5 Thursday nights"

We should avoid the europa at all costs !

jimjamcos

I can see why there's people on here defending Moyes. He's fundamentally a decent man who has worked very hard, and been successful at a top level, to get where he is. It's no fluke that he finds himself as the main man at United. Many fans are unwilling to go against the United tradition of giving mangers time. This is all perfectly understandable but any realists will be thinking differently.

Firstly, Moyes was a Fergie signing and therefore is no less susceptible to being a failure than any player he signed during his reign. The one doubt I, and a lot of fans, had before he signed him was his track-record. Moyes had won nothing in his long management career. He was largely unproven at the very top level and like your typical mid-table player, it's always a gamble as to whether they can make the transition. There's no doubting the the gap between playing for/managing a team in 5th/6th is infinitely bigger than the gap between that position and bottom of the league. Fact is in terms of basic achievement at Everton, Moyes was closer to a Championship manager than he was a Champions League manager. It's the tiniest percentage leap that a manager/player must make upon moving to United which is the hardest.

Moyes was, in my opinion a sentimental choice by Ferguson. He mistakenly looked to and trusted the man in Moyes instead of the manager. Nobody, absolutely nobody, was going to replace Ferguson with the same success he achieved but more should have been done to minimize the biggest gamble in the clubs history. So what if Bobby Charlton doesn't like Mourinho? He's proven at the level required. Same with other top European managers. So what if they're working for/going to another club, don't speak the language or will cost too much? Again, proven people. The manager signing was effectively the most important in the club's history and yet Everton was the answer. It's already cost the club near 30million in transfer wastage and Moyes will continue to carry the clubs credit card into markets way too big for him.

It's not David Moyes fault he has worked hard and got to the top, even if undeserved. It's Alex Ferguson's for making a wholly illogical decision based on a narrow view of what the club needed. The club didn't need a manager with Premier League experience. It needed a manager with big tournament and big player experience. I feel sorry for Moyes. He's gone from rowing a canoe to driving a passenger liner with no idea where the controls are..

GSPfan

I think we'd all agree he wont be sacked until at least the Summer.

But I'm seriously worried at all the talk of giving him until next Christmas to get it right. In my mind he can only stay if we finish 4th or higher. If he finishes lower he should be sacked the morning after the last game of the season. It's just not acceptable. And it's easier to get a top class manager in the Summer. Sacking a manager mid season and trying to find a top class manager to come to United will be impossible.

gosplan

Meh, tear each other apart all you want.

The truth is everyone's a bit correct.

Fergie overachieved with this team, Moyes is underachieving.

But this is not a typical Man U team. Go back 4 years and it's Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Carrick, Scholes.

The current team doesn't nearly compare to that but it's not Fergie's fault, it's the Glazers. It's clear at this stage that RVP aside, they don't sanction deals for established players but rather young promising ones with resale potential. The fact that you're not breaking British transfer records for players like Rooney and Ferdinand while also plying top dollar for players like Tevez and Berbatov is what's hurting the quality. I think the Glazers just saw the Ronaldo deal and said 'let's try do that more often'.

This subpar Utd team threw away a league title 2 years ago. They added goals and won at a canter last year but no one was together enough to put in a decent challenge and Fergie got the absolute max.

Ultimately the team needs serious investment but if you think that's down to Fergie or Moyes, you're wrong.

theoneeyedman

Gringo180 wrote: »

Yous just arent as good as you think yous are. Your perhaps a place or 2 below where yous should be in the league but you would expect that with a new manager coming in. A club like Man Utd with only 2 true world class players in there whole squad?? Ferguson has a lot to answrr for in my book he let that team rot, instead of fixing the midfield he went out and bought van persie to paper ocer the cracks because he knew he was gone the following season.

I tend to agree with this type of thought.....Utd capitalised on the fact that city under Mancini were a mess as were Chelsea and to a lesser extent Arsenal, with Liverpool also being probably at a 20 year low. United were just the least bad team in the EPL last year. Fergie ran them into the ground and to be fair to Moyes he has inherited a squad without a midfield, 2 aging centre backs, a pissed off Rooney and RVP who also appears to have 'issues' at present.

Personally I'm delighted with things at present, but to blame Moyes for everything misses the point IMO

beno619

Vultures are circling.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9103554/transfer-news-christian-purslow-says-manchester-united-could-struggle-in-january

Anyway there are clearly trolls here tonight, no need to get our nickers in a twist.

dundalkfc10

beno619 wrote: »

We should avoid the europa at all costs !

Why though, its only an extra 2 games (compared to Champions League) if you were to go on and win it

Liam O

nuxxx wrote: »

He should be sold, not suited to english football imo. Shame for both parties really

Kagawa in the Arsenal, Chelsea or City team would be twice the player he is at United. Similar enough to Silva, Ozil, Mata etc. Just because the current United team is devoid of all movement and fluidity and he's thrown out on the wing where he's miles away from anyone. He thrives on short passing and movement and the team as it's set up now just seem allergic to each other and try to stay as far away from each other as possible it seems.

Will I Amnt

mitosis wrote: »

You know, I'm old enough to remember when that Big Ron chap ran Man U, in fact even when the Doc did. I strongly suspect few if any of the regulars here have ever supported a club that wasn't winning all the time.

Where the club on the field is now is pretty much where it always was traditionally, bar about six seasons, until the Ferguson years. The Ferguson years can be seen as extraordinary, and now they have ended so do the extraordinary achievements.

Twenty six years of overachievement are done. It might well be a long time again before a period of success graces this club.

This might just be the worst post I've ever read on boards. Congrats dude.

newballsplease

Blaming the glazers? I dont think so... They gave moyes nearly €30 mill for an average player.

Your Airbag

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Why though, its only an extra 2 games (compared to Champions League) if you were to go on and win it

Thursday night football hurts your league form. We are sturggling enough in the league without the need to be jetting all over europe for Thursday night football.

Ed The Equalizer

mitosis wrote: »

You know, I'm old enough to remember when that Big Ron chap ran Man U, in fact even when the Doc did. I strongly suspect few if any of the regulars here have ever supported a club that wasn't winning all the time.

Where the club on the field is now is pretty much where it always was traditionally, bar about six seasons, until the Ferguson years. The Ferguson years can be seen as extraordinary, and now they have ended so do the extraordinary achievements.

Twenty six years of overachievement are done. It might well be a long time again before a period of success graces this club.

I remember the Big Ron days too.

It didn't need to go back there that quickly though. We were in a good enough position both on and off the pitch that a decent manager with a bit of pulling power could have attracted the quality of players to at least keep us in the top 4.

Chagan

The club shouldn't have to lower it's expectations to accommodate the manager. Moyes has shown very little in the last six months to suggest he's good enough for the role in the long term.

He has January to make his signings, if not to improve the team then to at least cover the gaping holes left from injuries etc. There is absolutely no basis to be guaranteeing his position for next season. As it is, the best we can hope for in May is to look back on the season as 'underwhelming'.

I hope he proves me wrong because he has shown himself to be a good manager over the last decade. However, sentimentality and idealism can only get him so far, eventually he has to offer something positive.

Gringo180

Just compare the great Utd Premier League teams to todays, years back yous had world class players littered all over the pitch and on the bench, Stam, Neville, Van der Sar, Beckham, Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs, Van Nistelrooy, Yorke, Keane, Sheringham etc look at the players now, Valencia, Nani, Fabio, Welbeck, Young, Cleverly, Anderson, Buttner, Smalling, Evans etc.

Stop blaming Moyes and just realise yous arent the force of old.

Courtesy Flush

Will I Amnt wrote: »

This might just be the worst post I've ever read on boards. Congrats dude.

Thats a ridicolous comment. What he posted was true enough

RobertKK

Such a disaster, we are out of the FA cup, and too many games still to play like CL matches in late winter/spring time, we have no hope of closing the gap to 4th place, United will never close a 5 point gap with 18 matches to go and what the hell are we still doing in the Carling cup?? Shouldn't we be out of it already?
Moyes out.

Motivator

Moyes sacked the entire backroom team at the biggest club in the world...on his very first day. Less than 2 months after probably the worst Man Utd team to win the Premiership walked it by 11 points he sacked Ferguson's coaching staff. He replaced world class coaches with the likes of Phil Neville.

The players have zero faith in Moyes, its plain for everyone to see. Today's game was the most gutless Man Utd performance I've seen in about 20 years. If Ferguson was still in charge he would sell literally half of the squad first thing in the morning. They're getting paid ridiculous sums of money & can't put in an honest days work when the chips are down. I sincerely hope the wheels come off this season & United finish 6th or 7th - a huge possibility by the way. This squad, Rooney the exception, are not good enough to be at that club.

Nope, I'm not a City or Liverpool fan & I'm not on the wind up. Its hard for United fans to admit what is happening but its very much becoming more apparent every week.

bassy

job should have been given to mourhino,we would be in top 4 and still in all comps.
oh how jose must be laughing now for been ignored for the job

Will I Amnt

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

Thats a ridicolous comment. What he posted was true enough

What he posted was absolute bollox IMO.

SlickRic

3 questions you need to ask yourselves IMO:

How is Moyes trying to get the team to play?
If he gets long enough, and/or he gets "his" players in, can you see that way of playing succeeding at Utd?
If his way of doing things isn't good enough, is he able to learn what he needs to learn while on the job?

Also, there is no shame in believing the man is just not good enough. He wasn't really qualified to take the job in the first place after all, and if he's showing little since, then he deserves all the pressure in the world.

Rodgers wasn't qualified for the Liverpool job. But, he showed he was trying to change something from early on, with many signs quite encouraging, which is why he was shown patience during some dodgy times at the start of his reign.

Moyes, IMO, needs to show the fans he's trying to do something constructive with the team, or else he deserves every criticism that comes his way.

bassy

seen ot emptying fair quick once Swansea scored the winner,true fans ehh my arse.
at least moyes will get shut of the plastics that have been glory hanging on for umpteen years.

titan18

gosplan wrote: »

Meh, tear each other apart all you want.

The truth is everyone's a bit correct.

Fergie overachieved with this team, Moyes is underachieving.

But this is not a typical Man U team. Go back 4 years and it's Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Carrick, Scholes.

The current team doesn't nearly compare to that but it's not Fergie's fault, it's the Glazers. It's clear at this stage that RVP aside, they don't sanction deals for established players but rather young promising ones with resale potential. The fact that you're not breaking British transfer records for players like Rooney and Ferdinand while also plying top dollar for players like Tevez and Berbatov is what's hurting the quality. I think the Glazers just saw the Ronaldo deal and said 'let's try do that more often'.

This subpar Utd team threw away a league title 2 years ago. They added goals and won at a canter last year but no one was together enough to put in a decent challenge and Fergie got the absolute max.

Ultimately the team needs serious investment but if you think that's down to Fergie or Moyes, you're wrong.

Course it's down to them, how much money should the Glazers give a manager. 30m for every player, just so they can go and buy more of Fellaini and Anderson, or sign a few more like Young and Valencia. That's what our signings have been, that's not really excusable tbh, especially if you go and look at what other clubs have signed.

RobertKK

bassy wrote: »

seen ot emptying fair quick once Swansea scored the winner,true fans ehh my arse.
at least moyes will get shut of the plastics that have been glory hanging on for umpteen years.

That was poor indeed, I don't know why anyone would pay to attend a sporting event and not at least wait till it was over, with only one goal there was always a chance.

beno619

Motivator wrote: »

The players have zero faith in Moyes, its plain for everyone to see. Today's game was the most gutless Man Utd performance I've seen in about 20 years.

I have played far worse this season. By Moyes standards it was a great first half.

jimjamcos

gosplan wrote: »

Meh, tear each other apart all you want.

The truth is everyone's a bit correct.

Fergie overachieved with this team, Moyes is underachieving.

But this is not a typical Man U team. Go back 4 years and it's Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Berbatov, Carrick, Scholes.

The current team doesn't nearly compare to that but it's not Fergie's fault, it's the Glazers. It's clear at this stage that RVP aside, they don't sanction deals for established players but rather young promising ones with resale potential. The fact that you're not breaking British transfer records for players like Rooney and Ferdinand while also plying top dollar for players like Tevez and Berbatov is what's hurting the quality. I think the Glazers just saw the Ronaldo deal and said 'let's try do that more often'.

This subpar Utd team threw away a league title 2 years ago. They added goals and won at a canter last year but no one was together enough to put in a decent challenge and Fergie got the absolute max.

Ultimately the team needs serious investment but if you think that's down to Fergie or Moyes, you're wrong.

Who's to blame for the host of average players at present so? The dinner lady?

Ferguson had half a decade to replace Scholes and for one reason or another didn't/couldn't. Not taking away from what Fergie achieved with an average team last season but he has to take a fair share of blame for the current woes. But judging by his autobiography, it's clear he was slow to acknowledge poor buys and team flaws even in his final days. Not even legends are perfect! :rolleyes:

Liam O

Gringo180 wrote: »

Just compare the great Utd Premier League teams to todays, years back yous had world class players littered all over the pitch and on the bench, Stam, Neville, Van der Sar, Beckham, Ronaldo, Scholes, Giggs, Van Nistelrooy, Yorke, Keane, Sheringham etc look at the players now, Valencia, Nani, Fabio, Welbeck, Young, Cleverly, Anderson, Buttner, Smalling, Evans etc.

Stop blaming Moyes and just realise yous arent the force of old.

Lol, name all the top players in a 20 year period and compare it to today. Vidic, Rooney and RVP would get into every team in the world. Kagawa, Nani, Carrick, Rafael, Evans, Jones and Smalling would get into pretty much every squad in the world. It's motivation rather than talent that is holding this team back at the moment. The tactics are basically the same as Fergie's and that is something that has to change as that relied on players bailing the team out rather than outplaying other teams.

Gringo180

Liam O wrote: »

Lol, name all the top players in a 20 year period and compare it to today. Vidic, Rooney and RVP would get into every team in the world. Kagawa, Nani, Carrick, Rafael, Evans, Jones and Smalling would get into pretty much every squad in the world. It's motivation rather than talent that is holding this team back at the moment. The tactics are basically the same as Fergie's and that is something that has to change as that relied on players bailing the team out rather than outplaying other teams.

Utds team of say 6 years ago would piss all over this team.

mitosis

Will I Amnt wrote: »

This might just be the worst post I've ever read on boards. Congrats dude.

Really? What part of it don't you agree with?