Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Al Capwned

newballsplease wrote: »

Blaming the glazers? I dont think so... They gave moyes nearly €30 mill for an average player.

Far from an average player tbh, Fellaini is a proven player who will become very good for us. I have no doubt in that.

goodolegill wrote: »

For the guys calling for Moyes to be given time even if he didn't make the Champion league spots.

Would your views change if it was Everton who took our once guaranteed spot?

Not really in this camp myself, but I would imagine it shouldn't matter.

Mitch Connor

JRant wrote: »

Absolutely and his track record of picking players in the transfer market is excellent. Unfortunately for him he's dealing with a very green chief exec and a huge debt hanging over the club. Time would seem to be against him at this stage.

The debt is not an issue at United anymore.

From this season on the interest payments on it are something like 20million. The debt is now at a managable level, and United have more than enough cash reserves on hand and coming on stream to spend big should they chose to.

Giggsy11

Was feeling bored so just checked all the league teams to see how many ManUtd academy players are playing in the league.

Cardiff:
Campbell
Eikrem
Mats Moller

Everton:
Gibson

Fulham:
Richardson

Hull City:
Alex Bruce
Chester
Brady
Paul McShane
Joe Dudgeon
Cameron Stewart

ManUtd:
Rafael (Gary Neville tweeted that twins were with ManUtd since they were 14. (https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/414424527712821248)
Fabio
Evans
Giggs
Welbeck
Cleverley
Fletcher
Januzaj

Norwich:
Pilkington

Stoke:
Shawcross

Sunderland:
Bardsley
Brown
O'Shea

Tottenham:
Fryers

West Ham:
Morrison

Agueroooo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

The debt is not an issue at United anymore.

From this season on the interest payments on it are something like 20million. .

would you have a link to a statement or forecast for this?

GSPfan

keane2097 wrote: »

It's crazy how much nonsense you read in this thread.

Did you ever see Everton play under Moyes? I would say he was amongst the first managers in the EPL to shift to wing backs providing the majority of the width in his teams.

Thats spot on, which makes this last 5 months look so mental. A front 3 of

Rooney RVP Januzaj

With Rooney and Januzaj dropping off and to the wings would be brilliant. But he persists with the 442 ****. Like Dave Bassett.

Mitch Connor

Agueroooo wrote: »

would you have a link to a statement or forecast for this?

Nope - Woodward said it in his interview with UWS.

Also, Andersred's blogs on United current and future financial situation paint a potentially very rosey picture, depending on what Glazers want to do with the surplus cash.

GSPfan

Blatter wrote: »

And btw it's wrong to state that self sustainable clubs can't compete, just look at Bayern and Dortmund in recent years. Yes Utd are still servicing some debt, but it's nowhere near what it was and the club's revenue has more than Allie Teeny Trend since the Glazers took over.

I honestly don't have any real legitimate fears over the current or immediate future with regards the finance side of things.

Bayern are Bankrolled by one of the major car companies aren't they?

Leftist

GSPfan wrote: »

Bayern are Bankrolled by one of the major car companies aren't they?

over the past 4/5 or so seasons and prior to this window, united and bayern were equal in terms of net spend. check it out yourself if you want.

bayern are run like a football club.

manchester united are run like an advertisement agency.

master-t

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Just another thing to add, its hugely disappointing to see Moyes hasn't added to the squad already this window. Still spouting nonsense about value in market. Who cares what players cost, i know i don't. As it stands our central midfield is probably outside the top 6 or 7 in EPL. Can't believe only a couple of years ago we'd Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Butt and Veron in midfield

Well.......10 years ago. Not exactly last season like.

master-t

GSPfan wrote: »

Thats spot on, which makes this last 5 months look so mental. A front 3 of

Rooney RVP Januzaj

With Rooney and Januzaj dropping off and to the wings would be brilliant. But he persists with the 442 ****. Like Dave Bassett.

It's obvious our wing play is awful. Yet he still persists in keeping Zaha out of the team. He was one of our best performers in pre season along with Januzaj but he just won't give him a proper chance.


When you look at what formations he could utilise with the players we have - Zaha, Nani, Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney, RvP, Welbeck........we have so many options.

JRant

Leftist wrote: »

over the past 4/5 or so seasons and prior to this window, united and bayern were equal in terms of net spend. check it out yourself if you want.

bayern are run like a football club.

manchester united are run like an advertisement agency.

Again not really. You can't compare the 2 as Utd had to slowly build up Old Trafford over a 20 year period paying for everything themselves. Bayern got handed a brand new stadium (much like Citeah) without having the capital costs on their books.

2moreMinutes

goodolegill wrote: »

For the guys calling for Moyes to be given time even if he didn't make the Champion league spots.

Would your views change if it was Everton who took our once guaranteed spot?

Apart from the most lazy of connections, what relevance do Everton have in terms of Moyes being given time or not?

tallaghtmick

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9104174/transfer-boost-for-manchester-united-as-moyes-is-promised-funding

So now we are after a player Or will it be a case of no value in the market come Jan 31st

MagicIRL

My ideal Moyes' United line-up would be this:

De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Jones - New LB
Carrick/Fletcher - New CM
Januzaj/Welbeck - Rooney - Januzaj/Welbeck
RVP

I would imagine that team would be in with a shout against most league teams. Granted it's not on par with City or Chelsea imo (Welbeck for example is a good squad player, but not a star) but it should easily run over Swansea in attack alone.

On Zaha not being used, It seems Moyes hates him. I guess he did nail his daughter, because that's the only plausible reason I can think of.

DM_7

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Thats one of the problems, modern football has moved on from using wingers, unfortunately for us Moyes hasn't.

Best teams still use width in their play. Plenty of teams still use wide players just with better variety in how they move inside.

Most often from full backs or forwards playing in wide positions.

Valencia is the only traditional winger at United anyway so it won't take much to move away from wingers. Nani and Young are forwards, Januzaj and Kagawa same. I hope and always figured that the intention is to fix midfield and then use the wide players better since it what he used before.

Dont be at yourself

MagicIRL wrote: »

My ideal Moyes' United line-up would be this:

De Gea
Rafael - Smalling - Jones - New LB
Carrick/Fletcher - New CM
Januzaj/Welbeck - Rooney - Januzaj/Welbeck
RVP

Isn't it obscene that a player he spent £27 million on a few months ago doesn't make the team?

v3ttel

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Thats one of the problems, modern football has moved on from using wingers, unfortunately for us Moyes hasn't.

I'm going to throw this out there, I'm sure a lot of people will disgaree....

I see this mentioned an awful lot and I often wonder if these people have a ridiculously limited one dimensional definition of what a winger should be (ie: stand exclusively out wide, beat a player, cross the ball)

Navas, Robben, Ribery, Walcott, Hazard, Blaszczykowski, Alexis, Pedro, Tello, etc have all been regularly deployed wide right or wide left for their respective sides. They've been a source of width for some of the major teams in Europe who are all towards the top of their leagues for the last few years. This isn't even counting players who are as comfortable centrally as out wide. This also isn't even counting those who have a license to roam freely from wide positions whenever they wish.

A good "winger" should be able to do a variety of things: commit defenders, equally comfortable going inside or outside a defender, crossing, shooting, dribbling, reasonable pace, moving into central positions when the space arises, making driving off-ball runs into the box.

Maybe it is not the fact that "modern football" has "moved on". It might be that people now realise how archaic their definition of a "winger" has been for years.

Also, the facts are that Moyes did not play with "wingers" at Everton. Baines and Coleman supplied most of the width, with Pienaar playing more of an inside left role, and similar on the right.

keeponhurling

Funny thing is, despite all the poor performances and negativity, I still feel we are only one player away from having a top team again.

If we could sign a top-class midfielder, I think Champions League for next season would be a certainty.
Even if they cost 50 million, it would be worth it.
We could even offload Kagawa, Anderson and a winger or two to raise funds.

Failing that, can Paul Scholes make another comeback?

Maximus Alexander

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Can't believe only a couple of years ago we'd Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Beckham, Butt and Veron in midfield

That's nearly a decade ago! Kids born then are halfway to drinking age now!

Mitch Connor

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Isn't it obscene that a player he spent £27 million on a few months ago doesn't make the team?

I think we overspent on him, but always felt he would be a good squad addition - still do feel that.

SherlockWatson

keeponhurling wrote: »

We could even offload Kagawa,

This little soundbite is ridiculous, people actually complaining about the lack of quality while wanting rid of one of the best players at the club.

Eugh.

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

That's nearly a decade ago! Kids born then are halfway to drinking age now!

And kids from back then are now adults commenting on the internet about how unheard of it is for United to be loosing games and be 8th in the league!

Mitch Connor

SherlockWatson wrote: »

This soundbite is ridiculous, people actually complaining about the lack of quality while wanting rid of one of the best players at the club.

Eugh.

He simply doesn't produce for United.

Partly on him, partly on Fergie/Moyes.

Fact is though, he hasn't performed. If we aren't going to change formation or style to accomodate his talents better, he is unlikely to improve.

cathalio11

I agree with SherlockWatson.

For United, I think it is more important to get their quality players (which they have a lot of) playing well rather than off-loading their quality players.

Mitch Connor

cathalio11 wrote: »

I agree with SherlockWatson.

For United, I think it is more important to get their quality players (which they have a lot of) playing well rather than off-loading their quality players.

If we could get Kagawa, Nani, Rooney, RVP, Young, Januzaj, Carrick, Fellaini all playing as we should be allowed to expect them to, we'd be in a far better shape. Still need players, but far better shape.

Kagawa and Nani have been massive disappointments for me this year.

GSPfan

tallaghtmick wrote: »

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9104174/transfer-boost-for-manchester-united-as-moyes-is-promised-funding

So now we are after a player Or will it be a case of no value in the market come Jan 31st

That Sky Sports report is bizarre. Lots of talk but no quotes or anything.

master-t

Kagawa is a great player, but he simply hasn't performed at United. 2 Games in 2 seasons isn't enough. Playing out of position may be one thing, but Rooney plays in his fav position, and he simply isn't better than Rooney. So Kagawa needs to learn how to be effective out wide coming in. If he can't be, then he is quite limited anyway.


Kagawa could be used as bait to snare someone like Reus though.

Rayne Wooney

Someone needs to ask Moyes if he thinks the current way we play is outdated and if we're going to get with the times and start playing good football and scrap the monotonous wing play.

I think the answer to that question will make up my mind whether he should be the United manager for much longer.

GSPfan

Carrick Fletcher
Rooney Fellaini Januzaj
RVP

Give that a shot when everyone is fit and we'll be flying. Gives Fellaini the chance to get forward without being exposed.

Rooney and Januzaj helping out Raf and a new LB hopefully providing the width.

I'm not a manager or coach but if other teams can play this way then lets try it. Cant be worse can it.

ericzeking

master-t wrote: »

Kagawa is a great player, but he simply hasn't performed at United. 2 Games in 2 seasons isn't enough. Playing out of position may be one thing, but Rooney plays in his fav position, and he simply isn't better than Rooney. So Kagawa needs to learn how to be effective out wide coming in. If he can't be, then he is quite limited anyway.


Kagawa could be used as bait to snare someone like Reus though.

I think he knows how to be effective from wide, it's just the lads behind him can't a) pick out his movement and b) interplay with him.

Time and again you see him in space in good positions but the centre midfield can't get the ball to him at the right time.

I wouldn't mind a look at him in the centre mid position himself but you'd need a right enforcer alongside.

NaiveMelodies

master-t wrote: »

Kagawa is a great player, but he simply hasn't performed at United. 2 Games in 2 seasons isn't enough. Playing out of position may be one thing, but Rooney plays in his fav position, and he simply isn't better than Rooney. So Kagawa needs to learn how to be effective out wide coming in. If he can't be, then he is quite limited anyway.


Kagawa could be used as bait to snare someone like Reus though.

This.. We should really exploit Kagawa and Hernandez as bait if it means we gain improvement in key areas.
For one, Dortmund would snap Kagawa off our hands imo.
And I can only imagine a host of clubs would be delighted to take Hernandez.

GSPfan

only1stevo wrote: »

This.. We should really exploit Kagawa and Hernandez as bait if it means we gain improvement in key areas.
For one, Dortmund would snap Kagawa off our hands imo.
And I can only imagine a host of clubs would be delighted to take Hernandez.

Kag and Chico are definitely players I could stomach losing if it smoothed a player in deal.

keeponhurling

SherlockWatson wrote: »

This little soundbite is ridiculous, people actually complaining about the lack of quality while wanting rid of one of the best players at the club.

Eugh.

He has been at United for a year and a half, and produced very little quality.
And when he is poor, he is completely anonymous.

I actually feel he has gotten a lot of chances under Moyes (and Fergie).

Case in point, the game yesterday.

keane2097

I think even when he's not getting on the ball that much Kagawa's movement around the edge of the box has been one of the few ways United have caused opposition defences any problems at all this year.

Rayne Wooney

Kagawa is world class at what he does IMO, but needs the team built around him which we were never going to do. I hold nothing against Kagawa, he always tried when he was played left wing, ultimately it's Fergie and Moyes fault for playing a specialty player out of position.

I hope he doesn't go back to Dortmund as I think he'll be a key player for them, but if it means Reus will come the other way it's probably good for both parties.

SherlockWatson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

He simply doesn't produce for United.

Partly on him, partly on Fergie/Moyes.

Fact is though, he hasn't performed. If we aren't going to change formation or style to accomodate his talents better, he is unlikely to improve.

I agree with you, but I think a lot of that is down to the style of play, or complete lack thereof.

The movement up front atm is absolutely piss poor, and if he was playing through the middle at Arsenal he would be absolutely raking in the assists/goals imo.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

If we could get Kagawa, Nani, Rooney, RVP, Young, Januzaj, Carrick, Fellaini all playing as we should be allowed to expect them to, we'd be in a far better shape. Still need players, but far better shape.

Kagawa and Nani have been massive disappointments for me this year.

I think that's unfair, there's very few people who haven't been disappointing this year, I mean both of those players have only played what, 8 games this season?

master-t wrote: »

Kagawa is a great player, but he simply hasn't performed at United. 2 Games in 2 seasons isn't enough. Playing out of position may be one thing, but Rooney plays in his fav position, and he simply isn't better than Rooney. So Kagawa needs to learn how to be effective out wide coming in. If he can't be, then he is quite limited anyway.


Kagawa could be used as bait to snare someone like Reus though.

Rooney might be better at taking games by the scruff of the neck when it isn't going our way, but he is definitely not a better creative player than Kagawa, anyone who thinks that, clearly hasn't watched Kagawa play in a team that isn't playing turgid shít football.


Why would Reus want to come here? When he's seen a fantastic footballer he used to play with, treated terribly and then chucked out.

The_Kew_Tour

Will Reus want to come? Also has there been any hint this might happen.

Seen his name pop up a lot.

Kerrydude1981

Could Kagawa not be given a few games in the role that Cleverly plays?

JRant

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Kagawa is world class at what he does IMO, but needs the team built around him which we were never going to do. I hold nothing against Kagawa, he always tried when he was played left wing, ultimately it's Fergie and Moyes fault for playing a specialty player out of position.

I hope he doesn't go back to Dortmund as I think he'll be a key player for them, but if it means Reus will come the other way it's probably good for both parties.

He has played well this season when in his best position and i still think him playing just behind a more advanced Rooney could be very dangerous. How Moyes thought putting Welbeck into the 'hole' and Kags out wide was a good idea is beyond me?
Seriously wasted talent in that team at the moment.

Rayne Wooney

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Will Reus want to come? Also has there been any hint this might happen.

Seen his name pop up a lot.

If Bayern keep hoovering up talent and keep Dortmund out of the picture, he'll be more willing to leave his favourite club. With Lewandowski leaving we could test the waters in the summer.

Worth a shot, we've nothing to lose.

SherlockWatson

keeponhurling wrote: »

He has been at United for a year and a half, and produced very little quality.
And when he is poor, he is completely anonymous.

I actually feel he has gotten a lot of chances under Moyes (and Fergie).

Case in point, the game yesterday.

A lot of chances under Moyes? You have to be shítting me?

He has played 8 games this season, 6 as a starter and 2 as a sub, that's a lot of chances?? Jesus.
He's barely even played in his proper position.

The_Kew_Tour

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Could Kagawa not be given a few games in the role that Cleverly plays?

Cant be any worse. People will say Kagawa will be lacking for defensive but I be willing give it a shout

Mitch Connor

SherlockWatson wrote: »

I think that's unfair, there's very few people who haven't been disappointing this year, I mean both of those players have only played what, 8 games this season?

I don't completely blame both players - there are mitigating circumstances.

My point is merely that I thought both would be big players for us this season.

My thought was that we would play in a similar format to Everton.

Rooney in the cahill/fellaini AMC role. RVP in the Jelevic position (of last season).
Kagawa a freeish role off the left as Pienaar had. nani in a little more traditional right wing role. Carrick and Fellaini protecting the defence, providing more freedom to the forward 4.

For whatever reasons, we haven't seen it, or seen it work at all.

They have gone from players I expected to be huge for us this season, to players whose contributions have been disappointing.

NaiveMelodies

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Cant be any worse. People will say Kagawa will be lacking for defensive but I be willing give it a shout

Muscled off the ball 3 or 4 times yesterday, has been a regular occurrence this season. Don't care where he plays, it shouldn't happen.
Would be weary of him being the last line of defense in the middle and losing the ball in challenges.
To Cleverleys credit, he does go in strongly unlike Kags.

SherlockWatson

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't completely blame both players - there are mitigating circumstances.

My point is merely that I thought both would be big players for us this season.

My thought was that we would play in a similar format to Everton.

Rooney in the cahill/fellaini AMC role. RVP in the Jelevic position (of last season).
Kagawa a freeish role off the left as Pienaar had. nani in a little more traditional right wing role. Carrick and Fellaini protecting the defence, providing more freedom to the forward 4.

For whatever reasons, we haven't seen it, or seen it work at all.

They have gone from players I expected to be huge for us this season, to players whose contributions have been disappointing.

I took you up wrong, I agree with the sentiments echoed above, I did also expect big things from Nani this year, with a new manager and a fire lit up under his ass but he just hasn't had a chance to get going yet.

ericzeking

only1stevo wrote: »

Muscled off the ball 3 or 4 times yesterday, has been a regular occurrence this season. Don't care where he plays, it shouldn't happen.
Would be weary of him being the last line of defense in the middle and losing the ball in challenges.
To Cleverleys credit, he does go in strongly unlike Kags.

Mentioned it after his last stellar performance against Leverkusen that it's no coincidence that his best games have been in Europe where he gets frees in those scenarios.

Kerrydude1981

Im not too confident about this transfer window,unless crazy money is thrown around I reckon we will be lucky to get in a few loan signings that will hopefully improve things.

IamtheWalrus

Utd consistently fail to replace their best players. Keane, Ronaldo, Scholes. No value in market.

ericzeking

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I don't completely blame both players - there are mitigating circumstances.

My point is merely that I thought both would be big players for us this season.

My thought was that we would play in a similar format to Everton.

Rooney in the cahill/fellaini AMC role. RVP in the Jelevic position (of last season).
Kagawa a freeish role off the left as Pienaar had. nani in a little more traditional right wing role. Carrick and Fellaini protecting the defence, providing more freedom to the forward 4.

For whatever reasons, we haven't seen it, or seen it work at all.

They have gone from players I expected to be huge for us this season, to players whose contributions have been disappointing.

Exactly the team set up I thought we'd see but we haven't due to various circumstances like...playing Rooney up front with RVP to placate him early season, injuries and
Antonio Valencias familia holding Moyes grand Aunt hostage in Ecuador....

JRant

only1stevo wrote: »

Muscled off the ball 3 or 4 times yesterday, has been a regular occurrence this season. Don't care where he plays, it shouldn't happen.
Would be weary of him being the last line of defense in the middle and losing the ball in challenges.
To Cleverleys credit, he does go in strongly unlike Kags.

Cleverley gave away 3 very dangerous free-kicks yesterday because he keeps getting caught the wrong side of players.

Kags was dispossed by 4 Swansea players near the end of the game yesterday while all his team mates ran away from him.

There is a serious lack of support play in the team. Every time Chico got the ball there was 40 yards between him and the next most advanced Utd player. School boy stuff really.