Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

You think the club haven't learned to not take risks on players after that?

Why would it have needed that to wake them up if there is a problem in the medical department?

The club wouldnt take a risk on RVN, he had to prove his fitness before we went back in for him.

Gundongan should be no different, if we are interested let him prove he can play week in week out without breaking down.

Since the Hargreaves transfer was after the RVN transfer I cant see how it could show that they have learned anything, they already knew not to take risks on players but they did it anyway. There could be plenty of reasons for that.

If it was another area of his body I would not be as firm on the matter, but being as it is I would always err on the side of caution.

Your Airbag

Who of us is not upset about the way things are going? None of us. Who expected it? None of us at this level. Should we have? Looking at it now, yes maybe we should. Let me explain.

The results and performances have been worrying for all UTD fans, young and old. I thinks its a case that some of us fully expected a rough transistion and others thought we might be able to carry on where we left of under Fergie and some saw a few minor blips coming our way but not at this level.

For me I was expected struggles, I didn't expect exactly what is happening, the poor displays, the bad results, but when I look back at it now from 6 months in I think how could it not have happened and how I could have NOT expected it. This is going to be long as there are many reasons.

For me it boils down to a few different factors. Moyes of course is one of the main factor but not the primary factor imo and here is why.

Fergie left and suggested Moyes. Fergie undeniably left certain areas of the club slip and left them unaddressed when he made his exit. The MF was not addressed, senior players not replaced, great players replaced with average signings. Factors that cannot be ignored.

How come we won the league last season you ask? The simple answer is the greatest manager of all time. Fergie was able to get better preformances from average players but the signs of trouble in the squad were there under Fergie. We had many poor performances under him and in Europe we haven't really competed the last two seasons of his tenure.

So Fergie selected the ex Everton manager. He hand picked him. A top 8th manager with little to no UCL experience (ironically one of the areas Moyes has done well :cool:). Another important factor.

At the time of Fergies exit two massive and somewhat misguided & naive changes, from a planning view point, took place. (1) Gill left at the same time as Fergie (2) Moyes replaced all the backroom staff with his own.

We are all aware of how poorly Moyes and Woodward did during their first window. What is key to remember here is that both men were thrown together very quickly. They had no prior working relationship or experience of each other. Fergie and Gill on the other hand had built a working relationship for a decade. I fell Gill at least should have stayed during the summer and had both Moyes and Woodward shoulder surf him in his office and show them how UTD operated. Instead it seems Moyes and Woodward were off on the pre-season tour straight away and Gill and Fergie were gone. Fergie says he is there for advise but advise is one thing and actual live working context of seeing it done is another thing.

I seem to remember Moyes saying how taken a back he was by how quickly it all happened. Sure he may have know he was in line but he finished the last day of last season with Everton and was quickly in the deep end with UTD. Many new staff experienced this over the summer.

Gill going so quickly hurt us more here as we can clearly see help was needed in this area. This plus the fact no deals were in place or final attempt by Fergie or Gill to strengthen many areas in their final weeks hurt us. It should have been done long before, certainly before you throw the new boys in. It was a baptisim of fire and not properly planned.

Secondly Moyes replaced the backroom staff. I have no problem with this and Fergie obviously wanted him to have full control and didn't want to be seen to interfere hence why he stepped back in point one so quickly as well as the staff swap being allowed. I would have had no problem with it if point one ie some squad strenghtening prior to this. It wasn't and its a factor that Moyes is left to struggle with.

We have had injuries to key players, maybe Moyes training has something to do with this but key players getting injured is a factor that would hurt any team. We have also had many players letting last seasons bad form get worse (Evra, Val, Clev) and good players not hit their form such as Carrick. These were un-forseeable to a certain extent.

But why the poor performances? The above has something to do with it but the next factor is the main one for me.

One of the most glaring factors here is the UTD DNA running through the club. UTD have always been a counter attacking & crossing team that relied heavily on width. Its in every aspect of the current squad. Fergie built his UTD teams on those principles where as Moyes did not with Everton.

Moyes is trying to adapt to this style out of respect for UTD history and because its unavoidable given the squad he inherited was desgined for this particular style. Moyes is forcing our style or play more wide either through the obvious lack of quality in the middle or because he has no faith in the central player or because he cant recreate this area of his teams play like he did at Everton given what is at his disposal bearing in mind that Carrick has been a shadow of himself when not injured and the overall injuries plus lack or bodies here.

When you take everything into account, the injuries this season, the lack of bodies in the middle, the failure to add to the weak areas in seasons gone by and the poor preformances of those who remained it was going to impact.

Certainly when you consider that a whole level of senior managerial, coaching and executive staff was immidiealty replaced by another new level, well its clear it was going to impact. 6 months for this to happen without any serious impact? When you look at that you'll see its craziness and wasn't planned well. Such a sudden and serious change would effect any club or business. It was bound too. When you consider the stability of UTD the last 26 years and how we are unique than other football clubs in this fashion its makes the quick fire transition even more wreckless.

Do the Glazers have anything to do with this? Hard to say, its stuff going on behind closed doors to an extent but here is one interesting fact that may or may not be 100% accurate

Eight years since Glazer takeover net transfer spend = 6% of revenue. Eight years before takeover = 12% revenue.

TL;DR I outlined what I think are many poorly exeuted factors besides but including Moyes appointment that have led to us having a torrid 6 months. Either read them or don't

case885

kryogen wrote: »

Does Owen Hargreaves need to say hello to you again?

Its a back problem, has even watching how Rio needed to be handled the last few seasons with his dodgy back not shown you how unpredictable an area it is to have a problem in?

We dont need to be signing a centre mid with question marks about him (we did that twice recently with Ando and Hargo, neither worked out great) If he would have to be managed like Rio we are best off without him. Let him prove his fitness, if he looks fine playing every week then by all means go for him. If you think that if Madrid wanted him they would be put off by us trying to sign him in January you would be mistaken.

Rio is 35 though, hargreaves had buckled knees which would be alot worse than a back problem i would have thought. Anyway madrid will probably get him in the summer and turn out to be a success while united bid and fail to get vidal.

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

If you think that if Madrid wanted him they would be put off by us trying to sign him in January you would be mistaken.

Since 1995 Madrid have only bought 11 players in winter transfer periods according to that transferhistory website. That's almost 0.5 players per transfer window since then. The most they've spent is 23m on Huntelaar and the average is 5m per window.

Taking this into account I think my point stands that we have a far better chance to get him in this window than the summer as Real are far far more likely to bid in the summer.

Cantona's Collars

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Convinced you say?

Is it the 3 lawyers again? :pac:

DM_7

A 23 year old with a back problem is as bad as a 35 year old with a back problem.

case885

DM-ICE wrote: »

A 23 year old with a back problem is as bad as a 35 year old with a back problem.

I think 'back problem' is a fairly loose description, rio's might have been more advanced than his there not all the same injury.

JRant

I've watched a bit of Powell this season and I think he should be called back in to our squad nevermind loaned to another Prem team. Play him with Fletch or Jones and see what he can do.

If we don't/can't buy players in then he should be seriously considered. Couldn't perform much worse than alot of our midfielders this season.

yabadabado

JRant wrote: »

I've watched a bit of Powell this season and I think he should be called back in to our squad nevermind loaned to another Prem team. Play him with Fletch or Jones and see what he can do.

If we don't/can't buy players in then he should be seriously considered. Couldn't perform much worse than alot of our midfielders this season.

Powell hasn't being playing in midfield

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

Who of us is not upset about the way things are going? None of us. Who expected it? None of us at this level. Should we have? Looking at it now, yes maybe we should. Let me explain.

Ok, I read this, and I disagree with your entire premise.

How/Why should we have previously expected this rubbish based on all the failures that came after his appointment and throughout the season.

If we knew the 'continuity candidate' was going to sack all the backroom staff and ignore any transfers recommended by the previous system, as well as him and woodward fecking up any transfers they did attempt, along with abandoning anything he could have pointed at as his own philosophy or style - then yeah, maybe we should have expected this crap. But no one could have reasonably expected all of that. So.... why should we have expected the crap we got.

The results and performances have been worrying for all UTD fans, young and old. I thinks its a case that some of us fully expected a rough transistion and others thought we might be able to carry on where we left of under Fergie and some saw a few minor blips coming our way but not at this level.

For me I was expected struggles, I didn't expect exactly what is happening, the poor displays, the bad results, but when I look back at it now from 6 months in I think how could it not have happened and how I could have NOT expected it. This is going to be long as there are many reasons.

For me it boils down to a few different factors. Moyes of course is one of the main factor but not the primary factor imo and here is why.

Fergie left and suggested Moyes. Fergie undeniably left certain areas of the club slip and left them unaddressed when he made his exit. The MF was not addressed, senior players not replaced, great players replaced with average signings. Factors that cannot be ignored.

How come we won the league last season you ask? The simple answer is the greatest manager of all time. Fergie was able to get better preformances from average players but the signs of trouble in the squad were there under Fergie. We had many poor performances under him and in Europe we haven't really competed the last two seasons of his tenure.

So Fergie selected the ex Everton manager. He hand picked him. A top 8th manager with little to no UCL experience (ironically one of the areas Moyes has done well :cool:). Another important factor.

At the time of Fergies exit two massive and somewhat misguided & naive changes, from a planning view point, took place. (1) Gill left at the same time as Fergie (2) Moyes replaced all the backroom staff with his own.

We are all aware of how poorly Moyes and Woodward did during their first window. What is key to remember here is that both men were thrown together very quickly. They had no prior working relationship or experience of each other. Fergie and Gill on the other hand had built a working relationship for a decade. I fell Gill at least should have stayed during the summer and had both Moyes and Woodward shoulder surf him in his office and show them how UTD operated. Instead it seems Moyes and Woodward were off on the pre-season tour straight away and Gill and Fergie were gone. Fergie says he is there for advise but advise is one thing and actual live working context of seeing it done is another thing.

I seem to remember Moyes saying how taken a back he was by how quickly it all happened. Sure he may have know he was in line but he finished the last day of last season with Everton and was quickly in the deep end with UTD. Many new staff experienced this over the summer.

Gill going so quickly hurt us more here as we can clearly see help was needed in this area. This plus the fact no deals were in place or final attempt by Fergie or Gill to strengthen many areas in their final weeks hurt us. It should have been done long before, certainly before you throw the new boys in. It was a baptisim of fire and not properly planned.

Secondly Moyes replaced the backroom staff. I have no problem with this and Fergie obviously wanted him to have full control and didn't want to be seen to interfere hence why he stepped back in point one so quickly as well as the staff swap being allowed. I would have had no problem with it if point one ie some squad strenghtening prior to this. It wasn't and its a factor that Moyes is left to struggle with.

We have had injuries to key players, maybe Moyes training has something to do with this but key players getting injured is a factor that would hurt any team. We have also had many players letting last seasons bad form get worse (Evra, Val, Clev) and good players not hit their form such as Carrick. These were un-forseeable to a certain extent.

But why the poor performances? The above has something to do with it but the next factor is the main one for me.

One of the most glaring factors here is the UTD DNA running through the club. UTD have always been a counter attacking & crossing team that relied heavily on width. Its in every aspect of the current squad. Fergie built his UTD teams on those principles where as Moyes did not with Everton.

Moyes is trying to adapt to this style out of respect for UTD history and because its unavoidable given the squad he inherited was desgined for this particular style. Moyes is forcing our style or play more wide either through the obvious lack of quality in the middle or because he has no faith in the central player or because he cant recreate this area of his teams play like he did at Everton given what is at his disposal bearing in mind that Carrick has been a shadow of himself when not injured and the overall injuries plus lack or bodies here.

When you take everything into account, the injuries this season, the lack of bodies in the middle, the failure to add to the weak areas in seasons gone by and the poor preformances of those who remained it was going to impact.

Certainly when you consider that a whole level of senior managerial, coaching and executive staff was immidiealty replaced by another new level, well its clear it was going to impact. 6 months for this to happen without any serious impact? When you look at that you'll see its craziness and wasn't planned well. Such a sudden and serious change would effect any club or business. It was bound too. When you consider the stability of UTD the last 26 years and how we are unique than other football clubs in this fashion its makes the quick fire transition even more wreckless.

Do the Glazers have anything to do with this? Hard to say, its stuff going on behind closed doors to an extent but here is one interesting fact that may or may not be 100% accurate

Eight years since Glazer takeover net transfer spend = 6% of revenue. Eight years before takeover = 12% revenue.

TL;DR I outlined what I think are many poorly exeuted factors besides but including Moyes appointment that have led to us having a torrid 6 months. Either read them or don't

Rayne Wooney

Can players buy out their contract?

Coentrao has only played 4 games this season

Cantona's Collars

Looks like all of United's European scouts have been called to Carrington for a meeting this week,hopefully a couple of signings will be the result of this.

Johner

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Can players buy out their contract?

Coentrao has only played 4 games this season

He has been injured since November and also had an injury in September for a few weeks.

UnitedIrishman

Already mentioned it but can't see Madrid letting Coentrao go given he's the only cover for Marcelo and the player they were trying to sign in August is out on loan until summer.

Your Airbag

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ok, I read this, and I disagree with your entire premise.

How/Why should we have previously expected this rubbish based on all the failures that came after his appointment and throughout the season.

If we knew the 'continuity candidate' was going to sack all the backroom staff and ignore any transfers recommended by the previous system, as well as him and woodward fecking up any transfers they did attempt, along with abandoning anything he could have pointed at as his own philosophy or style - then yeah, maybe we should have expected this crap. But no one could have reasonably expected all of that. So.... why should we have expected the crap we got.

As I said, the swift exit of the previus staff was poorly planned as it was pretty much 25 years in place, the current squad built on old wide counter attacking play and many other factors.

I outlined all of them and more in the post as to why we are where we are, there is no point in asking me why as I included them all.

You disagree, thats fine.

DM_7

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Can players buy out their contract?

Coentrao has only played 4 games this season

Well he had injuries this year and that had played a part. His dad passed away also.

Players can buy themselves out after three years (under 28) but its notoriously messy affair.

Cantona's Collars

Speaking of Madrid,Ronnie scored his 400th goal this evening.

The_Kew_Tour

zerks wrote: »

Looks like all of United's European scouts have been called to Carrington for a meeting this week,hopefully a couple of signings will be the result of this.

Apparently Glazers are in town too.

Cantona's Collars

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Apparently Glazers are in town too.

Oh to be a fly on the wall in that room.

Rayne Wooney

DM-ICE wrote: »

Well he had injuries this year and that had played a part. His dad passed away also.

Players can buy themselves out after three years (under 28) but its notoriously messy affair.

I read up about it there and it seems the compensation part is really the only problem as both parties won't agree but surely Madrid couldn't ask too much because he's really just a backup to Marcelo.

Hopefully the stuff reported about him agreeing to come is true and Madrid won't make it difficult.

ElChe32

Hearing the boos from the Madrid fans to De Maria tonight and his reaction to them..doesn't bode too well for him...sneaky bid for him could be nice! Di Maria > all combined wingers we have.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

As I said, the swift exit of the previus staff was poorly planned as it was pretty much 25 years in place, the current squad built on old wide counter attacking play and many other factors.

I outlined all of them and more in the post as to why we are where we are, there is no point in asking me why as I included them all.

You disagree, thats fine.

Ok - more...

The counter attacking - United have always been good/great at doing it, but our success hasn't been built on it, because domestically we have dominated and been generally unable to counter attack much.

The wide play - Valencia is the only traditional winger we have, the rest can all play infield and move infield. For Moyes to stick with, and indeed use Kagawa at there, basic 442 wide players is non-sensical. In fact, the players we have are quite well suited to the formation he used at Everton, not 442. So to say we should have expected him to abandon his previous style and go with 44****ing2 doesn't ring true to me.

The staff leaving was not fully expected at all - no one on here thought Steele would be leaving and thought Rene would be kept on. Phelan was the only one we saw going (with Round coming in).

What I expected in the summer:

1. Moyes would implement a high pressure, high tempo game based on his Everton style - this hasn't happened.
2. Moyes would bring players in to address the weaknesses in the squad - weaknesses he would have identified when scouting United prior to playing us. His scouting is noted as being intensive, so our weaknesses and player weakness/performances should have been well known to him.
3. As the lauded 'continuity candidate', he would have kept more continuity in the backroom.

I dont think any of those expectations were unreasonable - and I don't think hindsight makes me think any differently on that score.

Certainly though, as the summer and season wore on - I became very dissatisfied with many aspects of Moyes actions or inactions and I predicted, to some degree, the failures of this season. However, I don't think these failures should have been expected before each failure of Moyes'. THe problems, as you correctly state (IMO) are a culmination of the failures and mistakes of Moyes/Woodward, but I don't think the failures themselves should have been expected to the level they happened.

The_Kew_Tour

ElChe32 wrote: »

Hearing the boos from the Madrid fans to De Maria tonight and his reaction to them..doesn't bode too well for him...sneaky bid for him could be nice! Di Maria > all combined wingers we have.

imagine if Madrid fans had to put up with Valencia every week:pac:

Your Airbag

Manchester United likely to miss out on Fabio Coentrão and Koke......

......according to the Guardian



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/06/manchester-united-fabio-coentrao-koke-transfer

Crimson King

Not doubting you for a second lads, but how exactly do you know this for sure (scouts & Glazers)?

magnumbud

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

imagine if Madrid fans had to put up with Valencia every week:pac:

offer them a trade they wanted him from wigan if i remember correctly

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

Well he had injuries this year and that had played a part. His dad passed away also.

Players can buy themselves out after three years (under 28) but its notoriously messy affair.

also - look at this:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/may/20/webster-ruling-matuzalem-cas-compensation

Players hoping to buy themselves out of their clubs under the Webster ruling this summer will need very deep pockets following a landmark verdict at the Court of Arbitration for Sport yesterday...

Your Airbag

Mitch Connor wrote: »

.

1. The staff leaving was not fully expected at all - no one on here thought Steele would be leaving and thought Rene would be kept on. Phelan was the only one we saw going (with Round coming in).

What I expected in the summer:

1. Moyes would implement a high pressure, high tempo game based on his Everton style - this hasn't happened.
2. Moyes would bring players in to address the weaknesses in the squad - weaknesses he would have identified when scouting United prior to playing us. His scouting is noted as being intensive, so our weaknesses and player weakness/performances should have been well known to him.
3. As the lauded 'continuity candidate', he would have kept more continuity in the backroom.

I dont think any of those expectations were unreasonable - and I don't think hindsight makes me think any differently on that score.

Certainly though, as the summer and season wore on - I became very dissatisfied with many aspects of Moyes actions or inactions and I predicted, to some degree, the failures of this season. However, I don't think these failures should have been expected before each failure of Moyes'. 3. THe problems, as you correctly state (IMO) are a culmination of the failures and mistakes of Moyes/Woodward, but I don't think the failures themselves should have been expected to the level they happened.

1. Gill & Fergie was not expected? If your going to reply at least reply to what was said, not what your saying I said.

2. Moyes brought in Fellain & Adnan to the first team, both in weak areas. Poor players around them haven't helped.

3. I never stated this. I stated Moyes/ Woodward and many other factors were at play.

You seem to have completely turned on Moyes and are willing to put him down, even to the extent of lying. Thats fine, your choice but if your going to get into a discussion about him on what I have said either reply to whats was said and not your spin on what was said. It will save the thread a major headache.

The_Kew_Tour

Yes I know different situations etc etc just interesting all same

games lost by mufc managers in their first 31 in charge:

Moyes: 7
Busby: 8
Ferguson: 9
Atkinson: 9
Docherty:12
Sexton: 13

RasTa

I see Ole is bringing Eikrem and Daehli to Cardiff, be interesting to see how they do

bucketybuck

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. Gill & Fergie was not expected? If your going to reply at least reply to what was said, not what your saying I said.

2. Moyes brought in Fellain & Adnan to the first team, both in weak areas. Poor players around them haven't helped.

3. I never stated this. I stated Moyes/ Woodward and many other factors were at play.

Not going to speak for Mitch but this is bull. You know damn well what was meant by the staff leaving, and Moyes quite clearly has not addressed the weaknesses in the squad.

Mitch Connor

Your Airbag wrote: »

1. Gill & Fergie was not expected? If your going to reply at least reply to what was said, not what your saying I said.

2. Moyes brought in Fellain & Adnan to the first team, both in weak areas. Poor players around them haven't helped.

3. I never stated this. I stated Moyes/ Woodward and many other factors were at play.

You seem to have completely turned on Moyes and are willing to put him down, even to the extent of lying. Thats fine, your choice but if your going to get into a discussion about him on what I have said either reply to whats was said and not your spin on what was said. It will save the thread a major headache.

Fine - I was trying to have a proper discussion with you, but you want to have shots at me instead. I thought when you were talking about staff leaving you meant Steele, Rene etc, not Gill. Apologies for that.

I'll leave the discussion there as you clearly don't want to converse with me.

Rayne Wooney

Will Moyes make many changes to the team at Swansea?

Don't think he really can with injuries

MagicIRL

Any news on transfers guys? GET MY HOPES UP DAMMIT!

MagicIRL

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Will Moyes make many changes to the team at Swansea?

Don't think he really can with injuries

I would love to see

DeGea

Valencia - Smalling - Jones - Buttner
Carrick - Fletcher
Zaha - Kagawa - Januzaj
Chico

titan18

Crimson King wrote: »

Not doubting you for a second lads, but how exactly do you know this for sure (scouts & Glazers)?

Scouts story seems to be coming from the Daily Mail. No idea where the Glazers one is coming from though.

kryogen

case885 wrote: »

I think 'back problem' is a fairly loose description, rio's might have been more advanced than his there not all the same injury.

Which is my point, its a dodgy area, it is unpredictable. Really dont see the problem with seeing how he gets on over the next few months.

The_Kew_Tour

Crimson King wrote: »

Not doubting you for a second lads, but how exactly do you know this for sure (scouts & Glazers)?

Some of more reliable people on twitter and was doing rounds in grounds too yesterday.

Why they are coming over could be anything between transfer funds, sacking Moyes or just coming over to enjoy the classy Manc ladies or hookers.;)

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Since 1995 Madrid have only bought 11 players in winter transfer periods according to that transferhistory website. That's almost 0.5 players per transfer window since then. The most they've spent is 23m on Huntelaar and the average is 5m per window.

Taking this into account I think my point stands that we have a far better chance to get him in this window than the summer as Real are far far more likely to bid in the summer.

Its not particularly relevant, it verges on a straw man actually.

If Madrid really want to sign Gundongan, if they have him earmarked as a summer transfer and a team comes in in January trying to sign him the most likely outcome is that they will move their plans forward, as most clubs do (including United) when another club comes sniffing around.

They can also reach an agreement with Dortmund to allow the player to stay there till the summer which is something United cant offer.

Cantona's Collars

Interesting article on Moyes & his time at Everton compared to how they are doing now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534438/Martinezs-Everton-ready-Champions-League-Moyes-brainwashed-fans-thinking-8th-good-enough.html

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

Looks like all of United's European scouts have been called to Carrington for a meeting this week,hopefully a couple of signings will be the result of this.

Source on that?

J. Marston

MagicIRL wrote: »

I would love to see

DeGea

Valencia - Smalling - Jones - Buttner
Carrick - Fletcher
Zaha - Kagawa - Januzaj
Chico

As much as I'd like to see him given a chance, just to try something different, I can't see it happening.

He was very good in pre-season, granted it was against poor opposition but you'd think he'd done enough to get a game or two. Wouldn't surprise me if there's truth in those rumours about him and Moyes' daughter.

The_Kew_Tour

Does anyone give Fellaini any hope of getting his Everton form shifted to United?

Surely once fit he is good enough to start.

MagicIRL

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Does anyone give Fellaini any hope of getting his Everton form shifted to United?

Surely once fit he is good enough to start.

I think he will. I think the step up from Everton to United was a big deal for him, plus, when you consider how shít the midfield is, he might come into his own once he has a bit of help in there. The man was playing with Cleverly after all!

kryogen

zerks wrote: »

Interesting article on Moyes & his time at Everton compared to how they are doing now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2534438/Martinezs-Everton-ready-Champions-League-Moyes-brainwashed-fans-thinking-8th-good-enough.html

Not as interesting as the other one though!

Rayne Wooney

kryogen wrote: »

Its not particularly relevant, it verges on a straw man actually.

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

I think if we wait until the summer Madrid will just outbid us, but they hardly ever spend big in January so that could be in our favour if the money is there for Moyes,

kryogen wrote: »

If you think that if Madrid wanted him they would be put off by us trying to sign him in January you would be mistaken.

It seems like your post wasn't relevant to what I was saying anyway, so I'll leave it there.

JRant

Moyes's biggest mistake IMO is that he keeps changing the team far too much. There is no continuity in the partnerships in midfield and centre-back especially, where is takes time to build.

With Everton he had a very settled first team but at Utd he's making 5/6 changes for every game.

Now i'm sure there was an element of not knowing your best 11 after just taking the job but 6 months in he seems to be still uncertain.

He's making changes just for the sake of it and the wrong ones at that. The recent game where Giggs was started at CM beside Carrick despite the fact everyone knew that was a midfield combo that could never work is just one example. Sticking with Valencia when Nani and Zaha are in the squad is another.

I'd like to see him make up his mind as to his best 11 and mainly stick to it. Fergie was excellent at resting players at the right time but he always knew his best 11.

kryogen

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It seems like your post wasn't relevant to what I was saying anyway, so I'll leave it there.

That makes zero sense.

You think we have a better chance of signing him if we move in January, citing that Madrid normally dont spend big in January and will outbid us in the summer

I counter that Madrid will go for him anyway if they really want him in January. They can also agree to sign him but let him stay at Dortmund for the rest of the season, a luxury we dont have.

Madrid are not a team who back down in transfer deals generally, if they want, they normally get. That is a reality and if you think that bidding in January would somehow give us an advantage over them I would say you are mistaken.

Motivator

Will I Amnt wrote: »

So much fail in so small a space. It's like a tardis of failure.

Ok then, I'd love for you to tell me what is wrong with what I've said.

I think it's great, all the United fans who jeered Liverpool fans for years over the demise of their club. The same thing is happening to Man Utd & the fans just can't take it or choose not to believe it.

The_Kew_Tour

Motivator wrote: »

Ok then, I'd love for you to tell me what is wrong with what I've said.

I think it's great, all the United fans who jeered Liverpool fans for years over the demise of their club. The same thing is happening to Man Utd & the fans just can't take it or choose not to believe it.

Ya case ye never celebrated when United lost a league or CL final.

sure:rolleyes: