Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

wadacrack

http://www.eplindex.com/28430/scouting-report-everton-stats-indepth-tactical-analysis.html Backs up what I was saying.Everton didnt play intricate football.Pienaar and Baines did link very well other than that not really. Anichebe was picked for his physical prowess

6 months, 2 weeks in Soccer by wadacrack 9,993 Replies 340,252 Views

moyes is just not the right coach for United.A top team does not just cross in hopeless balls from teh wing hoping for a goal.

Blatter

Agueroooo wrote: »

Its most definitely not helping the situation with TV cameras panning in on Ferguson every chance they get, as if the looking to see if the master approves of the apprentice.

It diminishes Moyes if you ask me.
He should be seen as the #1 in all aspects of Man Utd and not like someone who has been allowed 'try out the ropes' whilst being looked on.

intentionally or not the club are writing the panto for the press.

The thing is, when the camera cuts to Fergie, Moyes is on the sideline managing the team and the players are playing. They can't see it when it's happening.

Maybe if they go home and rewatch the match they'll see it, but tell me, how is that going to negatively affect their performance in the next game? It's a pathetic excuse.

Red Crow

Mark Ogden ‏@MOgdenTelegraph

In other news, Moyes insisted it was 'not true' that Utd are close to signing Fabio Coentrao

link

beno619

NiallMH93 wrote: »

Exactly. Plenty of people are happy to call for his head, but there aren't many managers around to step in who would be good enough in my opinion.
The team he has put out today, and against Swansea should have been good enough to win the game.
Blame Moyes all you want, but its hardly his fault that Cleverley is crap. The players are not performing, and some of them shouldn't be wearing the shirt.

Of course il blame him when he keeps picking him.

The teams he's putting out should be doing better yet they are not, that falls on the manager tbh.

v3ttel

Both Giggs and Moyes have come out and said we played quite well and commented on decisions. In Giggsy's interview he even said "it's getting laughable now, it's just the decisions aren't quite going for us".

I presume they have to be going for some sort of siege, us against them mentality to try and get the group of players together and show some fight.

Clearly the performance was pretty horrendous. Improved a bit when Fletcher came on to be fair.

gosplan

I think the only mistake Moyes has really made is not signing his own players.

Rooney still does great, RVP still scored, Rafael and Jones still put in great shifts.

Jan is playing well.

But the mediocre players are Utd or the ones who's character may be dubious: Cleverly, Val, Evra, Giggs and so on ate just not playing for him.

He needs to get them out and just get some solid, reliable workers at the club. Fcuking play like you mean it FFS and then with Rooney and RVP back you'll get 4th.

FFS Moyes got Leon Osman and Tim Cahill playing way better than this team of 'champions'.

It's not his fault they won't play for him. It's his fault he didn't see this as a potential problem and get in some reliable players.

In the summer he could have gotten some guys who would have seen the move as their big chance. Now the gloss is gone a bit.

I'd forget about signing expensive foreign players. I'd sign reliable players with PL experience. Build a solid base for Rooney, RVP and Jan to win the games and start putting pressure on Liverpool.

I'm not saying these are Utd players but the people you need now are people like Cabaye, Tiote, Lalana and so on. Just get something dependable in there as a starting point.

wadacrack

Fletcher has looked much better than Carrick and Cleverly from the bits i have seen. which is good to see but also worrying that a player who has ben out for like 18 months can perform better than players who had less issues

I'd be surprised if Moyes was given much to spend in Jan.

I'd imagine his spending money will come on the grounds of achieving top 4.

Agueroooo

Blatter wrote: »

The thing is, when the camera cuts to Fergie, Moyes is on the sideline managing the team and the players are playing. They can't see it when it's happening.

Maybe if they go home and rewatch the match they'll see it, but tell me, how is that going to negatively affect their performance in the next game? It's a pathetic excuse.

Im not saying its having a direct negative effect on the pitch.
Its not making Moyes job any easier imo
a job that was probably the hardest one to take in world football after all Fergie achieved.

The way things have panned out its only compounding the problems for Moyes.

Re Fergie.

Whether it's having a negative effect is debatable. It certainly can't be helping.

Call Me Jimmy

I'd almost agree with you if it was a club of less stature but any manager deemed worthy of taking over should be worth enough salt where it is a non-issue. Would Mourinho have needed people saying 'Alex, stay at home please'?

JRant

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are players really that stupid?

It's not about being stupid though. Fergies whole success was built on an
"Us v them" attitude. Moyes has been going around being everones best friend.

Show one or two of them the door and tell the rest they'll be swiftly following if they don't buck up.

mike65

I would have thought playing away would help Utd, its all too easy for a negative feedback loop to be created when struggling in your own stadium. Swansea will no doubt be looking forward to Saturday tea time, Moyes et al need to get everyone up for the game before it kicks off and then play like their lives depended on it.

Blatter

Agueroooo wrote: »

Im not saying its having a direct negative effect on the pitch.
Its not making Moyes job any easier imo
a job that was probably the hardest one to take in world football after all Fergie achieved.

The way things have panned out its only compounding the problems for Moyes.

What would be worse is if Fergie stopped going to games now.

''Oh look, Moyes couldn't handle Fergie being around''

Burt Macklin

beno619 wrote: »

Of course il blame him when he keeps picking him.

The teams he's putting out should be doing better yet they are not, that falls on the manager tbh.

Sorry, typed that wrong, meant to say when Cleverley gives away crap penalties. And while I agree with you to a point, the alternative is an injured Fellaini and Jones, 40 year old Giggs and a half fit Fletcher. Not much choice there but to play him.

Frank Black

JRant wrote: »

Well it's about time Moyes stopped being such a nice guy. Take a fine for the team, get the siege mentality going, anything at all.
.

Straws, grasping.

Agueroooo

Blatter wrote: »

What would be worse is if Fergie stopped going to games now.

''Oh look, Moyes couldn't handle Fergie being around''

I did think that tbh and again it would play into the hands of the rags.

I have no answer im afraid I just think it's not helping.

hufpc8w3adnk65

What happened with Evra n moyes? I was training?

Headshot

My big worry is Fergie being to stubborn to fire Moyes

Chagan

I think it'll be a sad day when one of the club's greatest managers can't go to games for fear of him affecting the team's performances.

Your Airbag

GSPfan wrote: »

I don't blame Moyes for these players. I blame him for not getting rid of them and buying others.

He had the summer to evaluate without seeing them in competitive matches. Getting rid of them was not an option that early and then the window had shut.

beno619 wrote: »

Surely Moyes has lost the dressing room , has a manager ever come back from being this far gone, shades of Fulham and Martin Jol earlier in the season.

If he's lost the dressing room I don't see him turning things around.

Unless he drops Cleverley were gonna finish 7th.

This is not far gone. Its not inspiring but its not far gone.

Vic Vinegar

Fergie being at the games is a non issue, but well done to the media for creating something out of nothing! Stick to what you're good at.

beno619

NiallMH93 wrote: »

Sorry, typed that wrong, meant to say when Cleverley gives away crap penalties. And while I agree with you to a point, the alternative is an injured Fellaini and Jones, 40 year old Giggs and a half fit Fletcher. Not much choice there but to play him.

Anderson & Fletcher far superior players Lingard is back from his loan anyone is better than Cleverley.

gosplan

Also I'd like to add that it would be extremly short sighted if they don't give him time.

Regardless of his style of play, he had Everton constantly challenging for fourth on a shoestring.

Every time he unearthed or developed a star player, they got sold like Graveson, Lescott, Rooney, Arteta, Rodwell and so on.

He can manage but these mediocre players who had their careers basically made by Fergie's genius just won't play for him.

He needs time, he needs his own players.

All the other stuff about sacking the coaching staff, Fergie in the stands etc is rubbish.

What you know is Moyed can manage and these players are playing sh1t.

Hank Scorpio

Wonder what Rooney makes of all this. Feared the worst when he got injured

v3ttel

Moyes post match interview here: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/9106046/capital-one-cup-manchester-united-boss-david-moyes-slams-referee-after-sunderland-defeat

beno619

Your Airbag wrote: »

This is not far gone. Its not inspiring but its not far gone.

I hope your right !

eigrod

He came from a club that had a very small pool of players, very reliant on the loan market. Little or no money to spend. He was magnificent at organising them, making them very hard to beat, and maybe winning 1-0 or 2-1, very good at set pieces but ultimately in awe of the bigger teams who they struggled to beat.

He was able to play more or less the same team every week, barring injuries. Squad was too small to rest players, never had the problem of keeping 23/24 players happy by giving them adequate playing time. Finishing top half was acceptable for the club. Reaching 4th and finishing above Liverpool was utopia for the club.

Then he walks in to Manchester United....worlds apart.

Your Airbag

Powell should be recalled at this stage and played over Cleverly.

If we can't sign top MF talent in the Jan window is there anything to be said for Scholes? Fergie needed him and his influence last season should not be forgotten. 21 apps each of the last two seasons.

It would smack of desperation but would it help?

sawfish

Bring scholesy back hes got to have half a season left in him.

Courtesy Flush

What would be the point in firing Moyes with no good replacement. It makes no sense of any kind

v3ttel

Your Airbag wrote: »

Powell should be recalled at this stage and played over Cleverly.

If we can't sign top MF talent in the Jan window is there anything to be said for Scholes? Fergie needed him and his influence last season should not be forgotten. 21 apps each of the last two seasons.

It would smack of desperation but would it help?

It would be asking a lot of Powell to come in and play in CM after being played as an attacking player for Wigan in the Championship.

Having said that, it's hard to see how he could offer any less than Cleverley did tonight.

adox

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Fergie being at the games is a non issue, but well done to the media for creating something out of nothing! Stick to what you're good at.

Did you read Ogdens piece in the mail? Cringeworthy.

sawfish

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

What would be the point in firing Moyes with no good replacement. It makes no sense of any kind

Giggsy ready and waiting

JRant

Frank Black wrote: »

Straws, grasping.

Possibly, probably but anything is better than the soulless stuff we're seeing at the moment.

sawfish

Anyone listening to talk sport hilarious

Nalz

rarnes1 wrote: »

Re Fergie.

Whether it's having a negative effect is debatable. It certainly can't be helping.

It has zero effect

Pointless post

If it's not negative and it's not positive then meh

gosplan

eigrod wrote: »

He came from a club that had a very small pool of players, very reliant on the loan market. Little or no money to spend. He was magnificent at organising them, making them very hard to beat, and maybe winning 1-0 or 2-1, very good at set pieces but ultimately in awe of the bigger teams who they struggled to beat.

He was able to play more or less the same team every week, barring injuries. Squad was too small to rest players, never had the problem of keeping 23/24 players happy by giving them adequate playing time. Finishing top half was acceptable for the club. Reaching 4th and finishing above Liverpool was utopia for the club.

Then he walks in to Manchester United....worlds apart.

Magnificent at organising them and making them very hard to beat.

Exactly.

The blame for this lies with the situation and the players.

I always said it would be nearly impossible taking over from Fergie and I stand by that.

If Moyed could organise Arteta, he can organise Valencia. It's not that different.

Except from the point of view of the player in question who simply can't be motivated by regular humans after spending years working for Fergie.

adox

Courtesy Flush wrote: »

What would be the point in firing Moyes with no good replacement. It makes no sense of any kind

Because he isn't the man for the job, has turned a championship winning team into a near laughing stock, has horrible tactics, horrible team selections but most importantly has the players playing terribly and with an attitude that they couldn't give a ****.

Now the players have to carry some blame for their efforts this season but ultimately Moyes is in charge and it's as clear as day to me that the team has no faith or confidence in him.

It's just not going to work and it's only putting off the inevitable not sacking him.
He needs to be removed as soon as possible for the good of the club. Get someone in to take over til the end of the season if needs be and appoint someone then.

Headshot

sawfish wrote: »

Anyone listening to talk sport hilarious

Just listening to them now

They have that chelsea anti pool guest on there and they just had a one of those true utd fans idiots on there

Your Airbag

Three defeats in a row and its bloody hard to take this on the chin but we must try and look at the positives.

The last two defeats have been cup games. If we dropped six league points this would be really bad. The last league defeat was undeserved, we battered Spurs and they survived, much like Everton did.

This is only half time remember, hopefully we will have a stronger team for the return leg. We have an away goal and although a poor lunge from Clev it was never a peno. We were denied one against Spurs too and hopefully luck will swing our way a bit more. I know luck is not to blame here but it could help swing a bit of momentum our way.

The players are not giving there all for Moyes and combined with them adjusting to his tactics its not a pretty site. Whats worrying is there has been no adjustment from Moyes or the players to give it more in the last three games.

beno619

We did not batter Spurs, we showed up for the last 20 mins.

Your Airbag

gosplan wrote: »

Except from the point of view of the player in question who simply can't be motivated by regular humans after spending years working for Fergie.

That is an interesting point. Fergie had this power about him when he talked. You could see it when he was angry in an interview or when he was defending the team. He made you unquestionably believe whatever he was saying.

I heard him make some crazy excuses for players and poor displays in his day and he always looked like he 100% believed what he was saying.

It must be so different for the players and any sense of doubt they are getting from Moyes would spread through the team quickly. Its not an excuse for the manager or players but another factor.

Your Airbag

beno619 wrote: »

We did not batter Spurs, we showed up for the last 20 mins.

Yes, no doubt we were not on top for large parts of the game but how they kept us out in that period was well, very annoying.

gosplan

Your Airbag wrote: »

That is an interesting point. Fergie had this power about him when he talked. You could see it when he was angry in an interview or when he was defending the team. He made you unquestionably believe whatever he was saying.

I heard him make some crazy excuses for players and poor displays in his day and he always looked like he 100% believed what he was saying.

It must be so different for the players and any sense of doubt they are getting from Moyes would spread through the team quickly. Its not an excuse for the manager or players but another factor.

Fergie could perform miracles.

He'd go through a defensive crisis by moving Carrick to CB ... and IT WORKED!!

Gavlor

gosplan wrote: »

Magnificent at organising them and making them very hard to beat.

Exactly.

The blame for this lies with the situation and the players.

I always said it would be nearly impossible taking over from Fergie and I stand by that.

If Moyed could organise Arteta, he can organise Valencia. It's not that different.

Except from the point of view of the player in question who simply can't be motivated by regular humans after spending years working for Fergie.

Bad example. Arteta is a far more intelligent footballer.

Now Tony Hibbert on the other hand.....

Prufrock

United need to sign players in Jan. I know with the world cup coming up players may not want to move clubs. But there are some good players who won't be at the world cup.

Money is the only real factor then. I know he's just signed a new contract but I'd love to see us look at Hamsik. He plays in central midfield for Slovakia. He's 26. Has champions league experience. Captain of his country. He plays behind the striker for Napoli so if Rooney or rvp get injured he's quality cover.


The down side is the cost. CM isn't his best, natural position. He's just coming back from injury.

Just to point out I'm not saying he's the answer to Uniteds problem but are we even asking about players of this quality?

beno619

Your Airbag wrote: »

Yes, no doubt we were not on top for large parts of the game but how they kept us out in that period was well, very annoying.

Cant remember Lloris having to make a save in the first half, It was a better performance in the Moyes era but far from good enough and miles away from battering them.

Spurs were happy to let us have the ball knowing that we would never break them down the way things are going.

J. Marston

sawfish wrote: »

Anyone listening to talk sport hilarious

Headshot wrote: »

Just listening to them now

They have that chelsea anti pool guest on there and they just had a one of those true utd fans idiots on there

What are they saying? Been avoiding all football media recently. (Yes, it's childish. So what?!)

Headshot

J. Marston wrote: »

What are they saying? Been avoiding all football media recently. (Yes, it's childish. So what?!)

Not worth mentioning tbh

That chelsea fella, I cant stand him. One of those typical awful chelsea fans