Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Cantona's Collars

homerjay2005 wrote: »

ah come on lad, have you not learned anything!? odds and history would suggest that we will sign none of them unless as you said, a miracle happens.

I've a feeling harsh lessons have been learned by Woodward & Moyes over the Summer debacle.
One world class midfielder would do for now along with a couple of his other targets.I reckon we could see a few players heading out the door in January.

The Bundesliga seems to be the sexy place to shop these days but there may be other more realistic targets available elsewhere.

SirDelboy18

Heard the Draxler thing too. By all accounts the Baines move is supposed to be revisited come January - probably the only thing (incoming wise) that might be done then. (Can't provide a source for this so take it with a pinch of salt as always)

newballsplease

RVP withdrew from the dutch squad with minor injurys.

homerjay2005

newballsplease wrote: »

RVP withdrew from the dutch squad with minor injurys.

good lad Robin...hopefully the rest of them do also!

anybody have a list of who is due to head off today to join up with their countries?

onemorechance

zerks wrote: »

Gundongan,Reus,Khedeira & Di Maria all in the papers since Saturday.If by some miracle we buy all 4 this place will explode.

Should definitely play the Kagawa card when negotiating with Dortmund.

onemorechance

...
"People want us to fail because we have won the league so many times - everyone hates the best clubs," said England international Jones, 21.
"It is as simple as that, and United won the league long before I was here.

"We enjoy that. We relish the test we get thrown at us every week."

...

"It proves when people doubt us we are more than capable of standing up for ourselves and proving to people that is why we were champions last season," Jones said.

"We weren't champions for nothing. We thoroughly deserved all the points we got last season."

...


United's league results since West Brom defeat on 28 Sep
5 Oct: Beat Sunderland 2-1
19 Oct: Drew 1-1 with Southampton
26 Oct: Beat Stoke 3-2
2 Nov: Beat Fulham 3-1
10 Nov: Beat Arsenal 1-0

BBC

Good attitude from Phil. His best position might be as a defensive midfielder or sweeper type role rather than center back where I think Smalling and Evans are more suited than him.

Your Airbag

zerks wrote: »

Gundongan,Reus,Khedeira & Di Maria all in the papers since Saturday.If by some miracle we buy all 4 this place will explode.

zerks wrote: »

I've a feeling harsh lessons have been learned by Woodward & Moyes over the Summer debacle.
One world class midfielder would do for now along with a couple of his other targets.I reckon we could see a few players heading out the door in January.

A lot of those names won't or can't move in January

The Gundongan stories around today just seem to be the press picking up on Rene's comments on twitter yesterday. I don't think Khedeira is going anywhere and Reus will be the target of many clubs and hard to get.

If any of these names mentioned are actual targets I think they will be deals done to bring them in the summer rather than January. Gundongan is injured until the new year afaik.

I don't think Moyes and Woodward will want to bring in players just to have made signings for signings sake. Moyes will want the targets he has in mind and nobody else. Therefore I don't expect much activity in the January window, especially not if the current squad has us back in the title race and in the UCL knockouts, which it looks where we are heading.

It would be sensible too. I would rather wait until the summer to get the best players in rather than who is available in January but was not the no.1 target.

Mitch Connor

onemorechance wrote: »

Should definitely play the Kagawa card when negotiating with Dortmund.

Which card is that?

"We'll give you a good price, misuse the player for a year and a half and give him back at a knock-down price? Yeah?"

TheDoc

Get the feeling we will definitly be getting some re-enforcements come January. And no since Vidic and Evra have we gotten any players to slot into the first team for meaningful impact.

Don't know, just get the feeling there will be a big name or two in order to maybe rectify what happened in the summer. Complete speculation on my part, but when the transfer window died down and it arose we bit 100+m for Bale, and seemingly have alot of cash, feel that we can make some decent moves.

The downside being obviously inflated prices and cup tied players, and usually big players don't move in January, wishful thinking maybe on my part, I just know the club arn't stupid, the new manager will have had half a season and maybe feels there is one or two things that need to be brought in to give us a strong finish to the campaign.

v3ttel

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Which card is that?

"We'll give you a good price, misuse the player for a year and a half and give him back at a knock-down price? Yeah?"

No.

Probably the card that says "We are interested in one of your players. We've a valuable player that you would love to have back. Lets talk".

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

Get the feeling we will definitly be getting some re-enforcements come January. And no since Vidic and Evra have we gotten any players to slot into the first team for meaningful impact.

Don't know, just get the feeling there will be a big name or two in order to maybe rectify what happened in the summer. Complete speculation on my part, but when the transfer window died down and it arose we bit 100+m for Bale, and seemingly have alot of cash, feel that we can make some decent moves.

The downside being obviously inflated prices and cup tied players, and usually big players don't move in January, wishful thinking maybe on my part, I just know the club arn't stupid, the new manager will have had half a season and maybe feels there is one or two things that need to be brought in to give us a strong finish to the campaign.

I reckon we may go for Baines again, but I can't see much beyond that.

As Moyes has said, and it is true, the first 11 needs improving, not the squad, and I can't see many CMs around that we could target and get in the January window - based on CL usage and the WC just a few months away.

If we had/have proper interest in Herrera we may go for him, as he will not be CL tied but Bilbao would have to reduce their asking price by half, and by all accounts he is having a poor season so far.

Mitch Connor

v3ttel wrote: »

No.

Probably the card that says "We are interested in one of your players. We've a valuable player that you would love to have back. Lets talk".

Oh, the ever so common player swap.... maybe we will actually do something like that.

I do fear we are going to lose Kagawa, Hernandez and Rooney in the next 12 months or so, getting in quality replacements isn't something United have been great at - a real worry.

Links to players like Draxler and Reus are promising, if they are true and we can do it.

homerjay2005

onemorechance wrote: »

His best position might be as a defensive midfielder or sweeper type role rather than center back where I think Smalling and Evans are more suited than him.

tend to agree here, my opposition to Jones in midfield pure and simple comes from years of watching us play s*it football mainly due to lack of creativity in midfield - he adds nothing offensively but he is effective in the destructive role and at least with him there, we rarely get over run - i though fellani would see an end to us playing Jones there, but obviously it has not worked out so far.

he 100% cannot play at full back unless we are stuck as he cannot cross the ball and in terms of CB, i think he is still 5th choice, though Rio certainly is giving him a run for his money this season.

onemorechance

Maybe they went for the extended warranty and are entitled to a full refund! Then again those clever Germans probably included a 'misuse will nullify warranty' clause. :pac:

Lovely Bloke

Why do people constantly talk about player swaps, or player A moving in part-exchange.

Show me the last one involving United please.

It's absolutely idiotic.

Mitch Connor

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why do people constantly talk about player swaps, or player A moving in part-exchange.

Show me the last one involving United please.

It's absolutely idiotic.

Gillispie to Newcastle, Cole to United?

Only one that springs to mind.

TheDoc

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Links to players like Draxler and Reus are promising, if they are true and we can do it.

I've found myself getting to see alot more Bundesliga and La Liga this year. Have always followed Germany in the internationals ( owing to Irelands omission) thanks to Olli Kahn and Ballack.

Draxler is coming along nicely since his kinda explosion last year. Still a fair ways to go though. Next 18 months critical for him in my view. He is a first team regular now for Schalke, tend sto be a little erratic, but you can see there is a top talent there. Just needs to get on a good progression.

Reus is Reus at the end of the day. But depends how "rigid" our formation would stick in regards to deploying someone like him. He tends to drift, and as everyone saw at the Aviva he's pretty good at it.


Both would command an outragous price, and I don't see either club involved wlling to let either go in the summer, nevermind January. Herrera looks to be more viable. But the price might be another stumbling block. The team has lost alot of it's gusto since we played them, and Herrera himself hasn't been starting every game for Bilbao. Again you can see he is a polished player who has alot more to go, alot of commentary around the summer was €35m was mad money for him now, bargain for him in five years. So I guess it's potentially a pretty expensive punt.

But it comes down to what we "NEED" not "WANT". So if we still feel the CM area is an issue, what part of it?

Creativity? We have Kagawa struggling to find his way in the squad, and the manager struggling to accommodate him.

Defensive? It's kinda why we bought Fellaini, along with his versatility

Box to box midfielders are rare, as we said no to probably the rising one in Europe in Strootman.

So what do we feel we "need" rather then "want". As an abstract example, how could we have accomodate Ozil, when we cant accommodate Kags?

Ordinary man

TheDoc wrote: »

I've found myself getting to see alot more Bundesliga and La Liga this year. Have always followed Germany in the internationals ( owing to Irelands omission) thanks to Olli Kahn and Ballack.

Draxler is coming along nicely since his kinda explosion last year. Still a fair ways to go though. Next 18 months critical for him in my view. He is a first team regular now for Schalke, tend sto be a little erratic, but you can see there is a top talent there. Just needs to get on a good progression.

Reus is Reus at the end of the day. But depends how "rigid" our formation would stick in regards to deploying someone like him. He tends to drift, and as everyone saw at the Aviva he's pretty good at it.


Both would command an outragous price, and I don't see either club involved wlling to let either go in the summer, nevermind January. Herrera looks to be more viable. But the price might be another stumbling block. The team has lost alot of it's gusto since we played them, and Herrera himself hasn't been starting every game for Bilbao. Again you can see he is a polished player who has alot more to go, alot of commentary around the summer was €35m was mad money for him now, bargain for him in five years. So I guess it's potentially a pretty expensive punt.

But it comes down to what we "NEED" not "WANT". So if we still feel the CM area is an issue, what part of it?

Creativity? We have Kagawa struggling to find his way in the squad, and the manager struggling to accommodate him.

Defensive? It's kinda why we bought Fellaini, along with his versatility

Box to box midfielders are rare, as we said no to probably the rising one in Europe in Strootman.

So what do we feel we "need" rather then "want". As an abstract example, how could we have accomodate Ozil, when we cant accommodate Kags?

United need a ball carrying cm that can make key passes and get a few goals. Cleverley on his day is nearly that player but he lacks the killer pass and goal threat.

magnumbud

TheDoc wrote: »

Get the feeling we will definitly be getting some re-enforcements come January. And no since Vidic and Evra have we gotten any players to slot into the first team for meaningful impact.

Don't know, just get the feeling there will be a big name or two in order to maybe rectify what happened in the summer. Complete speculation on my part, but when the transfer window died down and it arose we bit 100+m for Bale, and seemingly have alot of cash, feel that we can make some decent moves.

The downside being obviously inflated prices and cup tied players, and usually big players don't move in January, wishful thinking maybe on my part, I just know the club arn't stupid, the new manager will have had half a season and maybe feels there is one or two things that need to be brought in to give us a strong finish to the campaign.

tbh i cant see a "big name" coming in in january. unless its someone who has fallen severely out of favour with the club they are at. cant think of too many big names that move in january. could more than likely see someone like baines and or cabaye as in someone who doesnt play for a CL level club. i could be wrong and it would be a big boost to confidence of the team to bring in a name that excites the whole place but would imagine it will be the summer window before we see any bigger movement. and hopefully to avoid world cup hangover fees that the majority of summer deals are done pre the world cup.

onemorechance

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why do people constantly talk about player swaps, or player A moving in part-exchange.

Show me the last one involving United please.

It's absolutely idiotic.

:pac:

Sir! Yes Sir! I'll get right on it. Dare I ask in what format would you like this information furnished?

bucketybuck

Ordinary man wrote: »

United need a ball carrying cm that can make key passes and get a few goals. Cleverley on his day is nearly that player but he lacks the killer pass and goal threat.

This post makes my head hurt.

homerjay2005

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Why do people constantly talk about player swaps, or player A moving in part-exchange.

Show me the last one involving United please.

It's absolutely idiotic.

PIG and Paul McShane

Frazier Campbell was also included in the Berbatov deal and theres a couple of more i am sure, but nothing involving any big players/money.

you probably see things like there were gentleman agreements with us and clubs like Everton for future players after Rooney signed for us.

ericzeking

The way the game is currently, with almost every top team stacking their midfield I think it's going to be difficult for any potential signing to make the difference we all crave. We're playing with 2 in there with Rooney doing the odd bits and pieces.

No matter who we sign, we'll be outplayed through the middle playing 4-4-2.
Even if we had Keane and Scholes in thei pomp it would be extremely difficult for them being constantly outnumbered.

onemorechance

homerjay2005 wrote: »

PIG and Paul McShane

Frazier Campbell was also included in the Berbatov deal and theres a couple of more i am sure, but nothing involving any big players/money.

you probably see things like there were gentleman agreements with us and clubs like Everton for future players after Rooney signed for us.

The benefit that United get from loaning players out, and even selling them to other PL teams cannot be downplayed and I think has been a key contributor to United's success over the years.

Take last weekend for example with Sunderland, I believe that certain players will still have United in them and will up their game for United rivals. Also, if a player is loaned to another PL team, they of course they cannot play against their parent club, thus giving the parent club an advantage when they play.

Ordinary man

bucketybuck wrote: »

This post makes my head hurt.

Thanks for your input, it really made me reassess my opinion, feel free to keep your stunning views coming

Mitch Connor

onemorechance wrote: »

The benefit that United get from loaning players out, and even selling them to other PL teams cannot be downplayed and I think has been a key contributor to United's success over the years.

Take last weekend for example with Sunderland, I believe that certain players will still have United in them and will up their game for United rivals. Also, if a player is loaned to another PL team, they of course they cannot play against their parent club, thus giving the parent club an advantage when they play.

Don;t forget Phil Nevilles invaluable contribution to the 4-2 at Everton a few years ago!

onemorechance

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Don;t forget Phil Nevilles invaluable contribution to the 4-2 at Everton a few years ago!

Gibbo scored the winner for Everton against City a couple of seasons ago I think; Everton have been good to us! Although that 4-4 (that same season I think) was a bit of a let-down! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NaQf1jDyY

magnumbud

onemorechance wrote: »

Gibbo scored the winner for Everton against City a couple of seasons ago I think; Everton have been good to us! Although that 4-4 (that same season I think) was a bit of a let-down! :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NaQf1jDyY

fraizer Campbells 2 against city for cardiff too :-)

onemorechance

Reus has 30 million release clause . . .

...
Manchester United want to bring Borussia Dortmund midfielder Marco Reus to Old Trafford and might be tempted to trigger the £30m release clause the German club has revealed is contained in his contract. The highly sought after German international is signed up with Dortmund until 2017, but with Arsenal and United making little secret of their interest in him, Dortmund will offer their man a substantial pay rise on condition the release clause is removed from his contract. In their efforts to bring Reus to Old Trafford, Manchester United are reported to be offering to send Shinji Kagawa back to Dortmund in an effort to sweeten any prospective deal.
...

Guardian (rumours)

Carrick gonna get some rest!

Manchester United duo Michael Carrick and Danny Welbeck have both been ruled out of England's friendlies against Chile and Germany through injury.

...

Mirror

onemorechance

magnumbud wrote: »

fraizer Campbells 2 against city for cardiff too :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KqkNIxZthk

Vic Vinegar

Carrick gonna get some rest!

He'll need it too, i read somewhere he's been carrying an injury for a few weeks but has been patched up for the recent games.

magnumbud

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Carrick gonna get some rest!

He'll need it too, i read somewhere he's been carrying an injury for a few weeks but has been patched up for the recent games.

yup need all the players as fit as can be for december. if we can go on a solid run of wins alot of the teams around us are playing each other in that time could get closer to the top and set ourselves up for the new year when we usually hit their best form

Liam O

Hope Coentrao is picked up in January though that ship might have sailed, would represent far better value than Baines. Double move wit Di Maria would be golden though doubt he'll leave. Crazier things have happened with Madrid though. They'll probably have to fund the Summer's ridiculous transfer.

Rayne Wooney

Hopefully the interest in Baines means Moyes will move away from having 2 out and out wingers and just have 3 attacking midfielders behind the striker.

It's what we should be working towards, and with Baines and Raf we'll still have good options out wide.

Donnielighto

5 man defensive unit with one sitting midfielder allowing fbs to get forward?

DM_7

United have already moved away from two out and out wingers.

Also two in midfield is fine once they are backed up by the wider players making it a four man midfield when defending as we saw at weekend.

onemorechance

DM-ICE wrote: »

United have already moved away from two out and out wingers.

Also two in midfield is fine once they are backed up by the wider players making it a four man midfield when defending as we saw at weekend.

They've had little choice since Adnan seems to be the only one who can be relied on to perform in the wing positions!

Cantona's Collars

Carrick set to sign 2 year contract extension: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/12/manchester-united-michael-carrick-new-contract

magnumbud

god i hope we never move away from 2 out and out wingers fully. the odd game fine but its always been united way with wing play and i think its still got a place in the modern game. the issue at the moment is none of our senior wingers have been preforming the last year and a bit.

also i never want to see us to play that 532 thing that liverpool play. i think a team with width like madrid would love to play against you and could really have the fullbacks exposed by the right play

Al Capwned

If going back to 2-3-5 got us results, I'd have no problem with it!

Seriously though, football evolves, and we need to do what's best to get results, whatever formation that may be. Granted there is a tradition of wingers at United, but if another formation works for us, then so be it!!!

Winston Payne

SAF wanted to start changing from 4-4-2 at the end of his time for sure. Signing Kagawa, going for Lucas and Hazard as well. Playing the diamond. It's a change that needs to happen if we want to get back to the top of European football. 4-4-2 has it's uses, particularly at home where we'll be looking to dominate most weeks but we need more in midfield in terms of shape and a more sophisticated style of playing if we want to push on.

Rayne Wooney

We're at a point now where we need new players and new ideas tactically IMO, how many games over the last few years can people honestly look back and say "the quality of football was immense", not a lot I'd say.

Nalz

Mars Bar wrote: »

New thread!

Old thread can be found here.

Robin is happy about the new thread.

Small thing but wouldnt it be an idea to anyone who's closing the old thread to put a link to the new one as the last comment? Be handy for ppl on the fones.

As I said very small but helpful idea.

Nalz

Also,

just looking at the league table. From a points perspective, if we had won two of the games we drew this season we'd have the same points as Arsenal with arguably a more difficult fixture list to begin with. Ifs and buts and you can't only judge on points won but still an interesting thought... if you were to compare the hype about how well Arsenal are\were doing and how sheit we were!

Al Capwned

Trilla wrote: »

Also,

just looking at the league table. From a points perspective, if we had won two of the games we drew this season we'd have the same points as Arsenal with arguably a more difficult fixture list to begin with. Ifs and buts and you can't only judge on points won but still an interesting thought... if you were to compare the hype about how well Arsenal are\were doing and how sheit we were!

Or just beaten West Brom and we'd be right up their jumpers.

bucketybuck

Trilla wrote: »

Also,

just looking at the league table. From a points perspective, if we had won two of the games we drew this season we'd have the same points as Arsenal with arguably a more difficult fixture list to begin with. Ifs and buts and you can't only judge on points won but still an interesting thought... if you were to compare the hype about how well Arsenal are\were doing and how sheit we were!

Well you could do that, sure.

The problem is that our points say we are doing comparatively well, while our performances say we are going to be in trouble in the long term.

Seriously, we haven't played well for a few seasons now. We have gotten the results while not playing well, but that is not going to continue for ever, Moyes really needs to think about the malaise that is affecting a lot of players at the minute, because if it continues for another few years we are going to find ourselves left behind.

We can't stand still in this game, we need to improve.

UnitedIrishman

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We're at a point now where we need new players and new ideas tactically IMO, how many games over the last few years can people honestly look back and say "the quality of football was immense", not a lot I'd say.

I think Moyes is still trying to find his feet tactically with the players he has available.

I'd sure he'd prefer to have Kagawa inside behind the striker but with Rooney there it's a non-runner for now. Instead, at home Kagawa has come inside and drifted across more and more recently leaving Evra with the freedom of the left side on his own (much like we did years ago). Maybe that's why he's looking to get Baines in there at LB because he's a bit more solid defensively than Evra and nobody could argue that he doesn't cross the ball better. However, would he have the same link up play, pace and energy that Evra has - it's doubtful. We're overloading to the middle of the pitch when the ball is down the right.

One thing I've noticed too with Kagawa, the players need to trust his abilities more. He often occupies little areas in between players when he drifts from the left and automatically Valencia/Raf or whoever look up and think 'he's marked' or that he's not going to be able to go anywhere. But he's that intelligent of a player that he's able to keep the ball on the right side of his body away from the tackler or produce a good enough turn to get away from them. For example, forward to 1.40 here - it's a run I've seen him make time and again for United this year but not get the ball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dg3Kdh_rtI

I know it's only a minor thing but it's as if we're playing a really, really structured game and afraid to throw the shackles off.

There's definitely the parts there to produce really exciting football with Adnan, Kag, Rooney and RVP.. but we need to speed up the play. We look laboured going forward and then it inevitably goes out the wings.. is crossed, is cleared.. repeat cycle. Our attackers are very static receiving the ball and then when they make a run towards the ball or in behind there's no one making a second run when the defenders are dragged (that's where Rooney has stood out above all this year).

Carrick is supposedly out until Xmas now. Going to be interesting to see our lineup going forward. Certainly wouldn't be against Jones playing his 'breaking' role there.

keane2097

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

I think Moyes is still trying to find his feet tactically given the players he has available.

I'd sure he'd prefer to have Kagawa inside behind the striker but with Rooney there it's a non-runner for now. Instead, at home Kagawa has come inside and drifted across more and more recently leaving Evra with the freedom of the left side on his own (much like we did years ago). Maybe that's why he's looking to get Baines in there at LB because he's a bit more solid defensively than Evra and nobody could argue that he doesn't cross the ball better. However, would he have the same link up play, pace and energy that Evra has - it's doubtful. We're overloading to the middle of the pitch when the ball is down the right.

One thing I've noticed too with Kagawa, the players need to trust his abilities more. He often occupies little areas in between players when he drifts from the left and automatically Valencia/Raf or whoever look up and think 'he's marked' or that he's not going to be able to go anywhere. But he's that intelligent of a player that he's able to keep the ball on the right side of his body away from the tackler or produce a good enough turn to get away from them.

There's definitely the parts there to produce really exciting football with Adnan, Kag, Rooney and RVP.. but we need to speed up the play. We look laboured going forward and then it inevitably goes out the wings.. is crossed, is cleared.. repeat cycle. Our attackers are very static receiving the ball and then when they make a run towards the ball or in behind there's no one making a second run when the defenders are dragged (that's where Rooney has stood out above all this year).

Carrick is supposedly out until Xmas now. Going to be interesting to see our lineup going forward. Certainly wouldn't be against Jones playing his 'breaking' role there.

I don't know if it will assuage anyone's doubts because it seems like nobody is willing to believe it since the start of the summer, but I don't think there's any part of the full back role that Baines isn't substantially better than Evra at.

Completely agree re:players needing to trust Kagawa more, it's a very obvious thing.

Not really a fan of the Barca style under Guardiola but always loved how the players were willing to pass it to a guy who was "marked" and feel confident that he would find a way to retain possession.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

We look laboured going forward and then it inevitably goes out the wings.. is crossed, is cleared.. repeat cycle. Our attackers are very static receiving the ball and then when they make a run towards the ball or in behind there's no one making a second run when the defenders are dragged (that's where Rooney has stood out above all this year).

Not to repeat myself, but how can you state the first thing above and then praise Rooney two lines later? He has a ****e midfield yes, but he is also the guy playing the position that is supposed to be our creative fulcrum. If the ball is inevitably going out to the wings, then its because of Rooney, thats his game.

bucketybuck

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Certainly wouldn't be against Jones playing his 'breaking' role there.

Are we just a richer version of Stoke now or what?