Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Robson99

We need to get two top class middle of the park players urgently. Fellani and Cleverely were very poor to day. People are saying that Carrick was a loss and maybe he was a bit today but in terms of the season so far he has been very average. None of the three are good enough IMO to get us to the very top level we should be aiming for. You could get by with one of them in a 3 man centre but they require top class players with them

The problem is where do we get them. Bayern have an overload of middle of the park players. Kroos may be an option

Modric would be a great signing if we could get him from madrid and is proven in the PL.

Wilshere would also be ideal but I cant see Arsenal selling him.

The one thing we have and that a lot of clubs would like is Hernandez. I cant see us holding onto him. When Rvp and Rooney are fit he wont get many games and I think he will want to go. As much as Id hate to see him go if it meant getting in a top middle player then so be it. However i think it wont happen until the summer.

In the short term I think we should move for Cayabe or Dembele in January
15m should get one of them and it would give us a lift for the second half of the season

Rayne Wooney

It's not just the result

It's how utterly shíte we are and have been in 12 league games now, without any signs of improving or Moyes learning from mistakes he has made, even though we are just 7 points off top.

After the games against Barca in the CL it should have been a wakeup call that major investment needed to be done along with new ideas tactically, but it wasn't done and we've been working with makeshift foundations ever since that are bound to collapse at some stage.

How long did the people running the club think we could get away with not keeping up with the other elite clubs around us? The difference between United and Bayern is crazy and it's all down to the fact we didn't fix the team when players left/retired/flopped.

Robson99

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

It's not just the result

It's how utterly shíte we are and have been in 12 league games now, without any signs of improving or Moyes learning from mistakes he has made, even though we are just 7 points off top.

After the games against Barca in the CL it should have been a wakeup call that major investment needed to be done along with new ideas tactically, but it wasn't done and we've been working with makeshift foundations ever since that are bound to collapse at some stage.

How long did the people running the club think we could get away with not keeping up with the other elite clubs around us? The difference between United and Bayern is crazy and it's all down to the fact we didn't fix the team when players left/retired/flopped.

Agreed Rayne but a lot of people are getting on Moyes back after 12-15 games. We have played muck at various times over the last few years under Fergie and luckily got away with it. A lot of the blame should lye with Fergie for not buying middle of the park players after being embarrassed by Barca.
As you said Bayern moved we didnt

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

Agreed Rayne but a lot of people are getting on Moyes back after 12-15 games.

12 league games in and Moyes is still picking Valencia and bringing Giggs on. He has nobody to blame but himself.

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

12 league games in and Moyes is still picking Valencia and bringing Giggs on. He has nobody to blame but himself.

Fergie done the same. At least Moyes signed a middle of the park player although he hasnt done anything. Fergie didnt

IvySlayer

Man Utd should have seen game out - Moyes

*headdesk*

Shake off this mentality, quick.

bucketybuck

Robson99 wrote: »

Fergie done the same. At least Moyes signed a middle of the park player although he hasnt done anything. Fergie didnt

And he was called on it too, as well as being called on his neglect of the midfield. But what Fergie had was the fact that we could see the things that he was doing right, whereas you will really be scraping the barrel to list things Moyes has done right so far.

The_Kew_Tour

How many ****ing chances does Welbeck needs before he scores.

Getting on my ****ing tits at this stage.

We were ****ing awful. awful awful awful.

Fellaini was horse ****.

Cleverly was manure.

Rooney should have seen red but at least made things happen even if he made a balls at end. Cardiff deserved a result anyway.

Headshot

Now thats a proper rant lol

sReq | uTeK

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

How many ****ing chances does Welbeck needs before he scores.

Getting on my ****ing tits at this stage.

We were ****ing awful. awful awful awful.

Fellaini was horse ****.

Cleverly was manure.

Rooney should have seen red but at least made things happen even if he made a balls at end. Cardiff deserved a result anyway.

in moyes we trust

kryogen

What a ****ing ****e day of sport this has been

Robson99

bucketybuck wrote: »

And he was called on it too, as well as being called on his neglect of the midfield. But what Fergie had was the fact that we could see the things that he was doing right, whereas you will really be scraping the barrel to list things Moyes has done right so far.

It took fergie 5 years to win the league when he came in. Lads on here dont want to give Moyes 5 months. Now Im not saying we are as poor a team now as we were then but we do need an overhaul to keep us at the top. Moyes has inherited Fergies problems. He needs to be given a chance

The_Kew_Tour

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

in moyes we trust

I still cant blame Moyes for everything.

I still think he deserves a fair crack t this and overall its not been a bad season so far from result perspective considering the transition, but performances have been bit meh alright.

But that has been like this for past 2-3 years now.

kryogen

Robson99 wrote: »

It took fergie 5 years to win the league when he came in. Lads on here dont want to give Moyes 5 months. Now Im not saying we are as poor a team now as we were then but we do need an overhaul to keep us at the top. Moyes has inherited Fergies problems. He needs to be given a chance

The next person who tries to make out that the situations Fergie and Moyes took over in are in any way similar should be ****ing shot.

Will I Amnt

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I still cant blame Moyes for everything.

I still think he deserves a fair crack t this and overall its not been a bad season so far from result perspective considering the transition, but performances have been bit meh alright.

But that has been like this for past 2-3 years now.

Moyes has to take his fair share of the blame but individual errors and incompetence can't be legislated for.

One thing he does need to get sorted is this lark of holding on to what we have against teams like Cardiff, Southampton and Fulham. It's understandable against the bigger teams but if this keeps up we're going to see a lot more injury time heartbreakers in games we are expected to win.

The_Kew_Tour

Get Welbeck in that line too.

The_Kew_Tour

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Moyes has to take his fair share of the blame but individual errors and incompetence can't be legislated for.

One thing he does need to get sorted is this lark of holding on to what we have against teams like Cardiff, Southampton and Fulham. It's understandable against the bigger teams but if this keeps up we're going to see a lot more injury time heartbreakers in games we are expected to win.

would agree alright.

kryogen

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I still cant blame Moyes for everything.

I still think he deserves a fair crack t this and overall its not been a bad season so far from result perspective considering the transition, but performances have been bit meh alright.

But that has been like this for past 2-3 years now.

I don't blame Moyes for everything, but his subs and his tactics have been 90% wrong imo and he can be held accountable for this.

The mentality is wrong, he hasn't got it yet. Maybe he will, maybe he wont.

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Get Welbeck in that line too.

If that was Welbeck firing that gun, every single bullet would miss the target

The_Kew_Tour

Headshot wrote: »

If that was Welbeck firing that gun, every single bullet would miss the target

He probably have gun turned wrong way and well we know rest;)

deafroadrunner

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He probably have gun turned wrong way and well we know rest;)

he would still miss

Winston Payne

Slating Welbeck when he was on for less than half an hour is certainly appropriate. Sure wasn't it his fault that Rooney didn't score at the end?



Ferdinand was the worst today. Didn't win a single header all game. Get men around him and he's out the equation entirely. Evans really poor for the first goal too. He has to have the bottle to step out for the offside, he gets that wrong too much and has to sort it or he'll hang us again.

sky88

I honestly think the performances are no different from last couple of years just moyes is far too cautious when they take the lead

I think it is a hangover from Fergusons era and well his signings that were just not good enough and his inability to replace players when its been clearly obvious that there are problems with the midfield.

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

Slating Welbeck when he was on for less than half an hour is certainly appropriate. Sure wasn't it his fault that Rooney didn't score at the end?

In fairness he has missed so many chances at this stage its beyond a joke.

Today is just the last straw left in a a bundle of straws.

Winston Payne

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

In fairness he has missed so many chances at this stage its beyond a joke.

Today is just the last straw left in a a bundle of straws.

How many chances has he missed this season Kew? Feck it, this year. Give us a number there.

Rayne Wooney

This argument isn't really happening is it

Winston Payne

If people want to make criticisms, be specific. Be detailed. Be proportionate. Or be quiet to be honest, you're not contributing to anything otherwise.

bucketybuck

Winston Payne wrote: »

Or be quiet to be honest, you're not contributing to anything otherwise.

You will need to be a bit more specific here. New rules apparently.

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

How many chances has he missed this season Kew? Feck it, this year. Give us a number there.

well over 50

Headshot

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

well over 50

your being generous

Winston Payne

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

well over 50

Which games, and how many in each game?

Headshot

Winston Payne wrote: »

Which games, and how many in each game?

lol

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

Which games, and how many in each game?

Well on the 4th of January at 3.07 pm against.....................................

Wtf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robson99

Tbh Rooneys miss at the end was far worse than Welbecks. Rooneys was an absolute sitter

The_Kew_Tour

Robson99 wrote: »

Tbh Rooneys miss at the end was far worse than Welbecks. Rooneys was an absolute sitter

Very true but least Rooney takes chances from time to time

The_Kew_Tour

Well Spurs next.

Battle for a Europa league place.;)

Unearthly

Robson99 wrote: »

Tbh Rooneys miss at the end was far worse than Welbecks. Rooneys was an absolute sitter

Even Joe Allen was laughing at it

Winston Payne

He's missed over fifty chances. A number in no way plucked out of thin air. It should be no bother whatsoever to hop over to Soccerbase and pick out a few instances of them throughout the year.

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

He's missed over fifty chances. A number in no way plucked out of thin air. It should be no bother whatsoever to hop over to Soccerbase and pick out a few instances of them throughout the year.

0.19 goals per game is good ratio is it?

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=48971&season_id=142

bucketybuck

Winston Payne wrote: »

It should be no bother whatsoever to hop over to Soccerbase and pick out a few instances of them throughout the year.

Why don't you hop on and stop looking for reactions with disingenuous bull****.

Winston Payne

bucketybuck wrote: »

looking for reactions with disingenuous bull****.

Wanting structured criticism is disingenuous now?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

0.19 goals per game is good ratio is it?

http://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=48971&season_id=142

How many starts and how many starts up front?

gosplan

Winston Payne wrote: »

He's missed over fifty chances. A number in no way plucked out of thin air. It should be no bother whatsoever to hop over to Soccerbase and pick out a few instances of them throughout the year.

In fairness, who's bothered. Two seasons ago he looked great, a rival to Hernandez and potentially a future great. Last year he scored once in the 27 pl matches he appeared in. Fair enough, lots of sub appearances in there but 1 goal not enough.

This year he still looks sh1te but has actually scored twice do far.

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

Wanting structured criticism is disingenuous now?



How many starts and how many starts up front?

Well have a look at it again and you can tell me.

You are the one who sent me this link remember.

Rayne Wooney

Last season in the PL Welbeck had a shot accuracy of 42%, and put 14 chances wide/over bar/out for a throw

That's in the PL alone so 30/40 overall would be reasonable in the last year and a bit

bishopmuzorewa

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Well Spurs next.

Battle for a Europa league place.;)

We're saving all our goals for ye;)

Hangballlouie

Moyes actually said that he'd have taking a draw before the game. Im a Liverpool fan and delighted when you lot have a bad result but for a Utd manager to say that after a match against Cardiff is astounding tbh.

The_Kew_Tour

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/115271/danny-welbeck?cc=5739

**** me pink Winston 37 shots this season alone. 71 last season.:eek::eek:

and there was me trying be nice and save blushes.;)

Winston Payne

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

http://espnfc.com/player/_/id/115271/danny-welbeck?cc=5739

**** me pink Winston 37 shots this season alone. 71 last season.:eek::eek:

and there was me trying be nice and save blushes.;)

Better. This is data. Not vague rubbish and jokes about killing himself.


Welbeck needs to improve his accuracy in front of goal. We all know that. He should have scored today with the second chance for definite. I think he gets a rough ride in here and comes in for a disproportionate amount of stick. He broke Cardiff's defensive line today completely when he came on and combined well with Rooney.

The_Kew_Tour

Winston Payne wrote: »

Better. This is data. Not vague rubbish and jokes about killing himself.


Welbeck needs to improve his accuracy in front of goal. We all know that. He should have scored today with the second chance for definite. I think he gets a rough ride in here and comes in for a disproportionate amount of stick. He broke Cardiff's defensive line today completely when he came on and combined well with Rooney.

There is a hell of a lot I like about Welbeck. But he was raised a striker.

People can go on about him playing on wing and all, but he still gets into great positions and wastes so much.

too much..

He misses easy chances. Chances even the likes of Andy Cole and Diego Forlan would have been put to the sword for in past.

He has pretty much everything else.

But United depend on him banging in goals and so far in his United career he cannot be depended on to get a Goal in a game, never mind going through full season with decent tally.

Your Airbag

Would people agree that we six players listed below need to be sold? and if so do we need a direct six for six trade off ie six coming in for the six out?

Welbeck
Cleverly
Young
Valencia
Anderson
Giggs

We have a poor MF and now our wings look average and considering we are a team focused on width its a major problem.

Essentially the wide element of our squad is close to becoming as poor as our MF.

Nani and Januzaj will help there but I've been saying it before Moyes came in that our squad has too many average players who start for us and would not get near the squads let alone the first team of other big clubs.