Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

slingerz

dahat wrote: »

Moves for Dembele and Lallana will not keep the faithfull happy, these are the type of January transfer's we need to avoid, stop gap's and god knows we have enough of that type of player.

On reflection actually if Dembele and another CM came then we might plug the gaping hole in midfield and get some creativity going.

The current squad is winger heavy imo and we know from Everton that Moyes does not favour out and out wingers so the like s of Young and possibly Nani may go this summer and more players that like to cut inside rather than head down the line like a steamboat will come in

You'd be paying £20 million for each of those players though. Neither Spurs nor Southampton are stuck for cash and Levy has always gotten the most out of any transfer that they are involved in.

£40M is some very expensive stop gaps.

deeks

As a non-United supporter, how do you guys feel about Ferguson being at most / all of the games. Any game I've seen on TV this season the cameras seem to zoom in on him at least once. It must already be tough enough for Moyes with the figurative shadow hanging over the place without having his predecessor sitting in judgement in the stands every week. Must send mixed messages to the players too - especially if things are not going well.

Maximus Alexander

I don't think so. He's a director and gave the last 26 years of his life to the club. I'd find it much more odd if he wasn't at the games.

Julez

deeks wrote: »

As a non-United supporter, how do you guys feel about Ferguson being at most / all of the games. Any game I've seen on TV this season the cameras seem to zoom in on him at least once. It must already be tough enough for Moyes with the figurative shadow hanging over the place without having his predecessor sitting in judgement in the stands every week. Must send mixed messages to the players too - especially if things are not going well.

I think its irrelevent.

Backstreet Moyes

deeks wrote: »

As a non-United supporter, how do you guys feel about Ferguson being at most / all of the games. Any game I've seen on TV this season the cameras seem to zoom in on him at least once. It must already be tough enough for Moyes with the figurative shadow hanging over the place without having his predecessor sitting in judgement in the stands every week. Must send mixed messages to the players too - especially if things are not going well.

The man has given his life to the club. Once he doesn't try interfere with on field matters i don't see a problem.

Cantona's Collars

The heat maps here tell a story from yesterdays game,goes to show how rarely we had Cardiff under pressure,a team we would have walked all over a few years ago.

http://thepremierleagueowl.com/manchester-united-and-their-passive-approach-graphics/

Oregano_State

zerks wrote: »

The heat maps here tell a story from yesterdays game,goes to show how rarely we had Cardiff under pressure,a team we would have walked all over a few years ago.

http://thepremierleagueowl.com/manchester-united-and-their-passive-approach-graphics/

Yeah, and apart from the first 15 minutes, there's a GIANT hole in the number 10 position.

Trying to defending a 1 goal lead is asking for trouble. I didn't see the game yesterday, but I was pretty sickened checking the live updates.

We'd been on a decentish run of results up until yesterday, we can't be making a habit stupid mistakes like that or we can kiss the league goodbye before Christmas.

Piers Morgan is such an annoying gowl on Twitter as well, we need to close the gap if only to shut him up.

MagicIRL

Arsenal are 9 points clear and judging by the season so far, their only concern should be City.

Lord TSC

deeks wrote: »

As a non-United supporter, how do you guys feel about Ferguson being at most / all of the games. Any game I've seen on TV this season the cameras seem to zoom in on him at least once. It must already be tough enough for Moyes with the figurative shadow hanging over the place without having his predecessor sitting in judgement in the stands every week. Must send mixed messages to the players too - especially if things are not going well.

Said it in the other topic yesterday. What is Fergie meant to do, abandon the club? Sit at home with his hands over his eyes?

If Fergie's presence is causing problems for Moyes, if Moyes is that delicate that he cannot preform while Fergie watches on, then the problem is not with Fergie, it's with Moyes...

magnumbud

MagicIRL wrote: »

Arsenal are 9 points clear and judging by the season so far, their only concern should be City.

not that i dont agree with you but its 7 points (ahead of us) not 9

MagicMarker

MagicIRL wrote: »

Arsenal are 9 points clear and judging by the season so far, their only concern should be City.

City are only one point ahead of us.

Maximus Alexander

MagicMarker wrote: »

City are only one point ahead of us.

True, but they're also scoring for fun.

Will I Amnt

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

True, but they're also scoring for fun.

And seemingly anybody has a chance against them when they venture outside the Etihad.

Headshot

At least city are playing great stuff and Pellegrini is making progress.

Maximus Alexander

Will I Amnt wrote: »

And seemingly anybody has a chance against them when they venture outside the Etihad.

You could say the same about United though. Except without all the goals. United look really laboured and each goal is nearly a surprise at the moment.

Will I Amnt

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

You could say the same about United though. Except without all the goals. United look really laboured and each goal is nearly a surprise at the moment.

Unless they improve their away form they're no more contenders than we are.

tallaghtmick

Am I the only one who expected a draw?

homerjay2005

MagicMarker wrote: »

City are only one point ahead of us.

very naive way of looking at things, the same can apply to us and say that we are only 1 point ahead of Newcastle who barely avoided relegation last season.

1 point but the reality is they are miles ahead of us. they are playing wonderful football, have scored 14 goals more than us and beat us 4-1. they are losing games that they are clearly the better team in reality, should be about 10 points clear of us, but keeping/defensive mistakes are ruining them.

once Kompanys injurys clear up, they will rip up the league IMO. lets not kid ourselves into thinking they are struggling like we are, they are ruthless at exposing weaker teams, while we struggle to one goal wins over the likes of Stoke & Sunderland, and drop points at home to West Brom & Sunderland.

MagicMarker

homerjay2005 wrote: »

very naive way of looking at things, the same can apply to us and say that we are only 1 point ahead of Newcastle who barely avoided relegation last season.

1 point but the reality is they are miles ahead of us. they are playing wonderful football, have scored 14 goals more than us and beat us 4-1. they are losing games that they are clearly the better team in reality, should be about 10 points clear of us, but keeping/defensive mistakes are ruining them.

once Kompanys injurys clear up, they will rip up the league IMO. lets not kid ourselves into thinking they are struggling like we are, they are ruthless at exposing weaker teams, while we struggle to one goal wins over the likes of Stoke & Sunderland, and drop points at home to West Brom & Sunderland.

Not naive in the slightest. All that matters at the end of the day is the number of points on the board. They are not miles ahead of us, they are 1 point ahead of us, if they were miles ahead of us then the league table would reflect that. It doesn't.

Crimson King

Will I Amnt wrote: »

And seemingly anybody has a chance against them when they venture outside the Etihad.

Well next week is a good test for them as they play Cardiff away too.

Spurs away for us, fully expect a loss there considering how bad we have been away in some games this season and they are smarting from the City result.

homerjay2005

MagicMarker wrote: »

Not naive in the slightest. All that matters at the end of the day is the number of points on the board. They are not miles ahead of us, they are 1 point ahead of us, if they were miles ahead of us then the league table would reflect that. It doesn't.

watch them play football and then watch us. they are a whole level above us right now.

i think its safe to say, their season has gone much better than ours so far, injury to Kompany and mistakes by hart have cost them, where as we are just playing absolutely s*it.

you are being as naive as it comes if you think that the league table is reflective of how they and us are going...its not.

SherlockWatson

homerjay2005 wrote: »

you are being as naive as it comes if you think that the league table is reflective of how they and us are going...its not.

You make some odd statement's at times but what is this cryptic shít meant to mean, the table IS reflective of how we, and they are going, that is exactly what the table does, shows how teams are going throughout the season.

MagicMarker

homerjay2005 wrote: »

watch them play football and then watch us. they are a whole level above us right now.

i think its safe to say, their season has gone much better than ours so far, injury to Kompany and mistakes by hart have cost them, where as we are just playing absolutely s*it.

you are being as naive as it comes if you think that the league table is reflective of how they and us are going...its not.

I don't give a toss about how they play football. Barca like performances are utterly meaningless if they aren't winning the points. The points on the board is the only thing that matters.

FortuneChip

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You make some odd statement's at times but what is this cryptic shít meant to mean, the table IS reflective of how we, and they are going, that is exactly what the table does, shows how teams are going throughout the season.

Of course the table reflects how things have gone, but it doesn't offer the fairest representation of how things are likely to progress.
City's away form is bewildering at present, but I think it's a mental thing. It could just click for them on their next trip, and that's the final thing they'll need. The talent is there, the goals serve as proof. Some of their passing yesterday was sublime. I don't really know what happened to Spurs, but considering they'd only conceeded 6 up until yesterday suggests they're not that weak defensively.

United aren't waiting for that same thing to click. I think we're hoping it does. So far there's not been nearly enough to suggest it will any time soon either.
I think Leverkusen at home has been our best performance so far this season, and even then it wasn't the most convincing result

Maximus Alexander

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't give a toss about how they play football. Barca like performances are utterly meaningless if they aren't winning the points. The points on the board is the only thing that matters.

If it was the last day of the season today you'd have a point, but it isn't.

We are talking about prospects for the rest of the season and right now City look many times more likely than United to climb the table and challenge for the title.

What you're saying is tantamount to looking at the stock market and saying "Shares in A are roughly the same price as shares in B right now. B has a product on the market that is getting better reviews than A's , but invest all your money in A, the price on the board is the only thing that matters."

Nalz

I think what Homer is trying to say is that City are a fair bit ahead of us, more equipped to push on in the league and have suffered from unfortunates such as Harts form and injury (he mentions Kompany who is their rock).

I'm not saying I agree with it completely but they are showing more promise than us and pose a far greater attacking threat than us, Liverpool or Chelsea... maybe even Arsenal.

Having said all that the league table never lies and City have their issues. Before December we'll have played Chelsea and Arsenal; gone to City, Spurs, Liverpool and Swansea and hopefully we're still in the mix.

City look better equipped right now... but we've some nice fixtures coming up. If get through the Xmas period without any scares or upsets and bring in one or two faces in January we've a chance. I'm not rushing to the bookies on that but I'm not throwing the toys out of the pram just yet either!

onemorechance

homerjay2005 wrote: »

watch them play football and then watch us. they are a whole level above us right now.

i think its safe to say, their season has gone much better than ours so far, injury to Kompany and mistakes by hart have cost them, where as we are just playing absolutely s*it.

you are being as naive as it comes if you think that the league table is reflective of how they and us are going...its not.

In the league 1 point is not much better. 6-0-0 at home and 1-1-4 away; their home form is much better; their away form is much worse.

There is no guarantee that Kompany's injuries will clear up. He played 53 games in 10/11, 40 games in 11/12, 26 games last season, he has gone off twice this season, played only 4 games in the league and missed 8 and counting. It looks like his injuries are worsening rather than clearing up.

City will need to add to their 100 million summer spending in January if they are to win the league.

wheres me jumpa

Trilla wrote: »

we've some nice fixtures coming up

Not the first time we said that this season.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

watch them play football and then watch us. they are a whole level above us right now.

i think its safe to say, their season has gone much better than ours so far, injury to Kompany and mistakes by hart have cost them, where as we are just playing absolutely s*it.

you are being as naive as it comes if you think that the league table is reflective of how they and us are going...its not.

What your saying is true, the football they play at home at least is better but Magics point is also valid. They are one point ahead and don't look half as good away from home. If we hit and run and stay with them or they don't sort out there away form all that good play doesn't matter.

We never really put teams to the sword last year either and were unconvincing in so many matches but we got results and ended up with the league. That the main difference between Fergie and Moyes and a testimony to Fergies skills. He was able to get the most out of the players.now and not matter how pretty there football

Cantona's Collars

No Fellaini Wednesday night,could we see a midfield of Anderson & Cleverley? I've a bad feeling it'll be Giggs & Cleverley.

An away trip to Germany is all we need the way we are playing.

Vic Vinegar

zerks wrote: »

No Fellaini Wednesday night,could we see a midfield of Anderson & Cleverley? I've a bad feeling it'll be Giggs & Cleverley.

An away trip to Germany is all we need the way we are playing.

Jones could be ok for that i think.

Physio room has himself and RVP as "late fitness test"

Rafael should be back too! we've missed him quite badly.

Hank Scorpio

Giggs did well when he came on, its worrying that his little toe had more creativity than Cleverly and Fellaini combined. So frustrating from my point of view is that the only link missing for United to be a real threat in Europe again is a couple of really good midfielders but we've all been saying it since 2009

Cantona's Collars

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

Jones could be ok for that i think.

I thought I read somewhere that he won't be fit until the weekend,even so it's a sad state of affairs that we are depending on a centre half to anchor our midfield.I wonder if it'd be possible to leave Valencia in Manchester?

homerjay2005

Your Airbag wrote: »

What your saying is true, the football they play at home at least is better but Magics point is also valid. They are one point ahead and don't look half as good away from home. If we hit and run and stay with them or they don't sort out there away form all that good play doesn't matter.

they have dropped 12 points away from home and in 3 of those games, they played really great stuff and should/deserved to win. you cant say the same about us and as i said already, they stuffed us 4-1.

they are playing well and losing certain games - that augurs well for later in the season when they have Kompany back. what have we to look forward to, Fletcher and Anderson coming back?

SherlockWatson wrote: »

You make some odd statement's at times but what is this cryptic shít meant to mean, the table IS reflective of how we, and they are going, that is exactly what the table does, shows how teams are going throughout the season.

i think 90% of people here reading this discussion are able to understand it, so that says more about you than me.

if you think my posts are odd then feel free to send me a PM with these odd posts in the interest of clarification, (but at the same time not bringing willy waving into the forum to annoy other posters) and ill clarify the ones you cant understand for you.

Blatter

Agree with Homer 100% on this one. Performances are a very important indication of what way things will likely pan out throughout the season. City are a fair bit ahead of the rest of the league and I'd have them clear favorites. They have probably 'deserved' to win every game in the league so far bar maybe one or two. They've just been on the wrong end of variance so far as well as individual mistakes costing them. We've a fair bit to go to get to their level of performance at the minute.

Giggsy11

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't give a toss about how they play football. Barca like performances are utterly meaningless if they aren't winning the points. The points on the board is the only thing that matters.

Are you ok with the **** performance like Yesterday if they didn't equalize? It's good to have points on board but style of play is also somewhat important. What happened to all the traditional ManUtd way of playing? Played attacking fast paced game and in the last 5 years we played none of it. At least 2010-11 home matches were great.

You just have to feel bad for the regular match goers. Probably the worse value for money (entertainment wise) in the whole of Europe.

Giggsy11

zerks wrote: »

No Fellaini Wednesday night,could we see a midfield of Anderson & Cleverley? I've a bad feeling it'll be Giggs & Cleverley.

An away trip to Germany is all we need the way we are playing.

Hopefully Anderson gets his chances. After watching the **** in the midfield with not a single intent to pass the ball forward I would rather watch Anderson trying to bring the ball forward and lose possession few times than the sideways passing from our current midfielders.

At least Anderson is not afraid to be in the possession. He tries risky passes, long passes and also tries to dribble through the middle which create space for others. Cleverley/Fellaini and to an extent Carrick playing means our strikers have to drop very deep to get a touch.

Would love to see

Cleverley/Jones Anderson

Nani Kagawa Januzaj

Rooney

TheDoc

If you look on the flipside of people indicating City are strides ahead of us...

You could also look at it that City are scoring for fun and have tremendous home form, yet are only 1 point ahead of us......

If you look at our start we have barely strung two good performances together. The team looks disjointed and has no fluidity. You could be positive, and when we get ourselves sorted, be positive enough to think we will fly up the table.

It's the only thing giving me hope at the moment, we are somewhat in touch and have been terrible. January reinforcements and some form coming at the right time, we could fly up the table pretty rapidly. Don't forget with the Xmas schedule you can quickly jump up or down the table. City have a manager who has never dealt with this schedule before, Chelsea have a manager who hasn't dealt with it in a while.

Combining a title defending, experienced squad with a manager and staff who have done the Xmas schedule, I would be somewhat hopeful we can take advantage of it and make some ground.

That period is the make of break period for Arsenal. They have a relatively thin squad for quality, little knocks of fatigue to the likes of Ramsey or Giroud and they will be in trouble. Same with Liverpool. If they are still there come Feburary and we are still adrift, we are in trouble.

FatherTed

Blatter wrote: »

Agree with Homer 100% on this one. Performances are a very important indication of what way things will likely pan out throughout the season. City are a fair bit ahead of the rest of the league and I'd have them clear favorites. They have probably 'deserved' to win every game in the league so far bar maybe one or two. They've just been on the wrong end of variance so far as well as individual mistakes costing them. We've a fair bit to go to get to their level of performance at the minute.

So will Man City play as well as they have been, although losing a few away from home? Or what happens when their good play dips?

Also, there is talk that Rooney might face a suspension after the kick yesterday. Is this a new rule or something? I thought if the referee had already addressed the incident during the game, that was the end of it.

Mitch Connor

TheDoc wrote: »

If you look on the flipside of people indicating City are strides ahead of us...

You could also look at it that City are scoring for fun and have tremendous home form, yet are only 1 point ahead of us......

If you look at our start we have barely strung two good performances together. The team looks disjointed and has no fluidity. You could be positive, and when we get ourselves sorted, be positive enough to think we will fly up the table.

It's the only thing giving me hope at the moment, we are somewhat in touch and have been terrible. January reinforcements and some form coming at the right time, we could fly up the table pretty rapidly. Don't forget with the Xmas schedule you can quickly jump up or down the table. City have a manager who has never dealt with this schedule before, Chelsea have a manager who hasn't dealt with it in a while.

Combining a title defending, experienced squad with a manager and staff who have done the Xmas schedule, I would be somewhat hopeful we can take advantage of it and make some ground.

That period is the make of break period for Arsenal. They have a relatively thin squad for quality, little knocks of fatigue to the likes of Ramsey or Giroud and they will be in trouble. Same with Liverpool. If they are still there come Feburary and we are still adrift, we are in trouble.

I don't see evidence of us having the ability to click in the attack, and the defence lurches from improving to looking to have regressed again and we are just waiting to concede.

As for January arrivals....

Our terrible performance in the summer window, added to the general issues with the January window, added to the fact the WC is looming - I just don't see us being able to bring in the quality of player we need.

Additionally, I think the players we have are better than they are performing - Moyes isn't getting close to enough from the players at his disposal, and that is the main problem with United this season.

Nalz

wheres me jumpa wrote: »

Not the first time we said that this season.

a woah woah woah.

We said it once before when we won 3 drew 1 and lost 1 in between the City away and Arsenal games.

After the spurs game take a look at these:

Everton (H)
Newcastle (H)
Aston Villa (A)
West Ham (H)
Hull City (A)
Norwich (A)
Spurs (H)
Swansea (H)

Best run of fixtures in a loooooooooooooooooooooong time. Knowing us we'll only win half of them!

Your Airbag

Blatter wrote: »

Agree with Homer 100% on this one. Performances are a very important indication of what way things will likely pan out throughout the season. City are a fair bit ahead of the rest of the league and I'd have them clear favorites. They have probably 'deserved' to win every game in the league so far bar maybe one or two. They've just been on the wrong end of variance so far as well as individual mistakes costing them. We've a fair bit to go to get to their level of performance at the minute.

No one would argue that City click better than us in attack atm you would expect that for 80m plus spend

Homer makes a good point about Kompany and how he expects them to be stronger. He projects they will be and its a pretty safe assumption to make given how they preform when Kompany plays in the first team.

Again these are projections of what might happen. We were without Vidic, RVP, Kagawa and Carrick yesterday. Had we won, which almost happened given as bad as we played we would be ahead of City and one point behind second place.

There is nothing to say City won't sort out their away form when Kompany returns or we won't go on a run oursleves. If that happens or if we both have and upturn in form the point that at this stage with all their attacking wealth they have not recreated their home form on the road and are a mere point ahead of us.

I get the point current form indicates City are more likely to improve but its still what ifs. Had we not given away a late goal yesterday would we even be having this discussion. We would be possibly talking about being able to be right on Arsenals tails come the new year.

We were building momentum and the draw was a let down considering we had the lead for so long. Iirc we are still unbeaten in the last ten so our form is still improving, the display yesterday was not great but I don't think its representitive of our recent form as a whole.

tallaghtmick

Everyone keeps using the word transition....here's a new one overhaul! barring our strikers, our young defenders and DDG we need more than a few players.

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Everyone keeps using the word transition....here's a new one overhaul! barring our strikers, our young defenders and DDG we need more than a few players.

Just as everyone apart from Moyes could have told you in the summer!

magnumbud

FatherTed wrote: »

So will Man City play as well as they have been, although losing a few away from home? Or what happens when their good play dips?

Also, there is talk that Rooney might face a suspension after the kick yesterday. Is this a new rule or something? I thought if the referee had already addressed the incident during the game, that was the end of it.

yeah there is a rule but the FA like to make an example out of our players at times so wouldnt be surprised if he was.

Your Airbag

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Everyone keeps using the word transition....here's a new one overhaul! barring our strikers, our young defenders and DDG we need more than a few players.

Its also been said that this is a great championship winning side that didn't need a transition or overhaul (not that I agree with that, we have had too many average players we rely on for a couple of seasons)

We will know where are and how big of a change the squad needs if any come the final day of the season.

Thecon21

Everton (H)
Newcastle (H)
Aston Villa (A)
West Ham (H)
Hull City (A)
Norwich (A)
Spurs (H)
Swansea (H)

I used to look at these kind of run of fixtures and expect a large points haul, really really don't anymore from what I've seen, unless we're playing Crystal Palace at home I worry about a guaranteed win nowadays..

We'll know in a months time at the end of December whether to look forward to next season for a title challenge or if there's hope on the horizon.. Fingers crossed

onemorechance

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Just as everyone apart from Moyes could have told you in the summer!

City spent 100 million in the summer (as they have done every year for the last 5 years) and yet they have only one league title and are only 1 point ahead of United after 12 games; 100 million for one point is a lot! :pac:

United have a better GK and defence than City. City have a much better midfield. In attack both are close to equal.

Moyes did say in the summer the team / squad is short 5 / 6 to win Champions League. Moyes did say that midfield was an area he would like to improve.

In real life it's much more difficult to sign players than it is in fantasy football! :pac:

Moyes seems to be the most capable person of continuing the success of the club in the manner of SAF.

GSPfan

I wish United were a bit more ruthless with players. The amount of non performers is shocking. Its bad to watch and it doesnt look like United will get any decent signings in January.
January before a World Cup should get players moving so hopefully we can get rid of a few and add a few but I doubt it.

J. Marston

Thecon21 wrote: »

Everton (H)
Newcastle (H)
Aston Villa (A)
West Ham (H)
Hull City (A)
Norwich (A)
Spurs (H)
Swansea (H)

I used to look at these kind of run of fixtures and expect a large points haul, really really don't anymore from what I've seen, unless we're playing Crystal Palace at home I worry about a guaranteed win nowadays..

We'll know in a months time at the end of December whether to look forward to next season for a title challenge or if there's hope on the horizon.. Fingers crossed

24 points to play for. I'd say we'll end up with about 13-15 points out of those games, which is a very good return.


For a team looking to get into the Europa League.