Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

Oregano_State

onemorechance wrote: »

Having Rafael back will be great! United have been missing Vidic and Rafael for a while and now Carrick and RvP, 4 of the best in their positions in the whole of the PL and 4 first 11 players.

Considering that much being missing from the ideal first 11, a draw away to Cardiff, and performances overall, i.e. goals conceded and not scored, it's been a reasonable start, especially considering there is a new management team in for the first time in 26 years!

Overall, I think United have done well being without 4 first 11 players, especially compared to how City have done (away from home) without just one, Kompany, although Silva is out now too.

We haven't been without those 4 players for all of the games.

onemorechance

Oregano_State wrote: »

We haven't been without those 4 players for all of the games.

That is correct.

Pro. F

So after feeling a bit more positive about Moyes after a scrappy, narrow home win over Arsenal, Moyes is back to the same old shít this Sunday. It really is wearing thin.

Two things I see a lot of fans saying that I don't agree with:

- The complaints about the quality of the squad. Nah, this squad is far from perfect but they are nowhere near as bad as Moyes has them playing. The squad is more than good enough to be in the top four. But Moyes has somehow removed nearly all attacking threat from the team.

- The claim that we have been playing this bad for a few years. Not a chance imo. We were playing nothing like this under Fergie. It wasn't just the results that were different, it was the ability to dominate a game and get a goal when needed against the smaller teams, the demand of going for the win when required instead of defending a lead against fúcking Cardiff and, most noticeably, the ability of the team to be inventive and creative. Moyes has replaced all that with his overly strict team shape and his ridiculously slow and predictable attack.

I'm still for giving him until the end of the season, but I am sick of watching this shít.

ericzeking

tallaghtmick wrote: »

I did notice he looked quite svelte the other day, Im just gonna say it.....

ANDERSON IS LIKE A NEW SIGNING!!!!!!!!!

It could be his year....

onemorechance

I don't think it can be said for this Sunday. Cardiff were dominating the midfield and an extra CM was the correct thing to do I think.

I think United did attack more after that, Giggs put Rooney through and he should have scored.

Adnan was playing badly and Danny was a good replacement and Danny had a great chance too.

The defence played well and should not have conceded from that corner. While there have been games where United seemed to have been holding out, and maybe negative subs were made, I don't think Sunday was one.

Pro. F

onemorechance wrote: »

I don't think it can be said for this Sunday. Cardiff were dominating the midfield and an extra CM was the correct thing to do I think.

I think United did attack more after that, Giggs put Rooney through and he should have scored.

Adnan was playing badly and Danny was a good replacement and Danny had a great chance too.

The defence played well and should not have conceded from that corner. While there have been games where United seemed to have been holding out, and maybe negative subs were made, I don't think Sunday was one.

I'm not talking about the subs, I'm talking about the style of play. It is ridiculously stilted and predictable. That is the reason we ended up holding on and having to play on the counter attack for so much of the game. Any good manager should have been able to get a much better performance out of the team that started.

Your Airbag

RVP out for the game tomorrow by the looks of it

Mark Ogden ‏@MOgdenTelegraph No RVP on flight to Germany with Man Utd. Big loss in a game which could be crucial for their qualification hopes.

https://twitter.com/MOgdenTelegraph/status/405355766506205185

Lord TSC

Sure why would we want RVP? Away to Leverkusen? Should play for the draw and sure if we lose, they are a good team.


:P

ericzeking

Is Kagawa available? Would love to see Kagawa behind Rooney in a midfield number 10 role for a whole game, Chicharito doesn't really do it for me when he starts, spring him from the bench if needed.

tallaghtmick

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Sure why would we want RVP? Away to Leverkusen? Should play for the draw and sure if we lose, they are a good team.


:P

They got to a Champions League final once........:pac:

Your Airbag

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

Sure why would we want RVP? Away to Leverkusen? Should play for the draw and sure if we lose, they are a good team.


:P

Hopefully we get to see Rooney and Kagawa up top now. Chances are Rooney and Chico though

onemorechance

Your Airbag wrote: »

Hopefully we get to see Rooney and Kagawa up top now. Chances are Rooney and Chico though

Think Danny and Kagawa would be favoured over Chico.

Timmyctc

onemorechance wrote: »

Think Danny and Kagawa would be favoured over Chico.

I know its probably true, but this part breaks my ickle heart

Winston Payne

Hernandez hasn't impressed this season. He hasn't impressed in a fair while to be honest. Welbeck should be getting at least a game or two up front now that he's back to fitness.

ericzeking

Jones Cleverly

Nani Kagawa Welbeck

Rooney

That's a combination of what I'd like to see with what I think we will see, I think we will definitely have at least one of Welbeck or Valencia on one of the flanks.
I could imagine Giggs will be in there somewhere since he didn't start in his home town game at the weekend.

kryogen

Jones
Anderson Cleverley
Nani Kagawa
Rooney

I wouldn't mind that or something close to it

Pro. F

Winston Payne wrote: »

Hernandez hasn't impressed this season. He hasn't impressed in a fair while to be honest. Welbeck should be getting at least a game or two up front now that he's back to fitness.

You just saying this to get a rise or something?

Lord TSC

I find Hernandez has impressed in terms of his outfield play developing. Find the main problem is that when he's played, he's played in front of Rooney who doesn't create as many chances for others (as in when he gets the ball outside the box, he tends to try and do something himself rather than pass it to the main striker).

I think if Hernandez was playing in front of a more natural No. 10, and had the backing of a creative midfield and wingers, AND wasn't involved with a team who are playing very negative football right now, he'd be scoring for fun...

onemorechance

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I find Hernandez has impressed in terms of his outfield play developing. Find the main problem is that when he's played, he's played in front of Rooney who doesn't create as many chances for others (as in when he gets the ball outside the box, he tends to try and do something himself rather than pass it to the main striker).

I think if Hernandez was playing in front of a more natural No. 10, and had the backing of a creative midfield and wingers, AND wasn't involved with a team who are playing very negative football right now, he'd be scoring for fun...

Pity he didn't do that rather than try to pass to Danny on Sunday!

Lord TSC

onemorechance wrote: »

Pity he didn't do that rather than try to pass to Danny on Sunday!

Yeah, the one time he decides to not go for the easy goal and be selfless

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I'm not talking about the subs, I'm talking about the style of play. It is ridiculously stilted and predictable. That is the reason we ended up holding on and having to play on the counter attack for so much of the game. Any good manager should have been able to get a much better performance out of the team that started.

The setup and team choice was effected by injuries and upcoming matches but a pretty similar set up to what we played last year but in terms of getting a display out of the squad your right. Fergie was much better at this than Moyes, possibly Fergies greatest strenght was to motivate and maybe Moyes and the players need more time to grow accustom to each other.

I think he'll get a second season no matter what but the jury is still out on him. What we want to see is progress, its not happening as much as I expected, we are slightly better in form than we were, 10 games unbeaten but its not happening quick enough and the preformances are not good.
offered next to nothing creatively.

The players are not blameless though, many of them were individually shocking.

When Giggs came on he picked out a couple of good passes that Fellaini and Clev didn't attempt, one was put on a plate for Rooney and he blew it. He was lucky to be on the pitch at that stage. The defending of the free kick was terrible right from Smallings tackle to Evra switching off. I'm pretty sure Moyes will not have expected it to be defended so badly and was livid but to certain extent he brought the pressure on himself by shutting up shop too early, it was a very negative move. I think Fergie would have made that move about 5mins from the end of the game.

It was a bad in day in terms of team selection, subs and individual preformance. Compared to the Arsenal game where a lot of players played well.

bucketybuck

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I find Hernandez has impressed in terms of his outfield play developing. Find the main problem is that when he's played, he's played in front of Rooney who doesn't create as many chances for others

Something that has been noted more frequently on here recently, but some people still react in horror when you point it out.

Rooney created absolutely nothing for Hernandez on Sunday. Not a damn thing. He is supposed to be the number 10 but he doesn't play it creatively, he plays it like he is a lone forward, all graft and holding the ball up for the wingers.

DM_7

Rooney is playing well and deserves to play, it just that he is not the right 10 for the midfield options United have. If the options were creative then he would be perfect.

Kagawa or even Januzaj should be in there with Rooney up front especially with RVP out. At this stage get three in midfield and forget wingers, they are all playing ****e anyway. I am actually happy when Giggs is in as at least he plays forward passes. I don't expect any real changes though

Pro. F

Your Airbag wrote: »

The setup and team choice was effected by injuries and upcoming matches but a pretty similar set up to what we played last year but in terms of getting a display out of the squad your right. Fergie was much better at this than Moyes, possibly Fergies greatest strenght was to motivate and maybe Moyes and the players need more time to grow accustom to each other.

I think he'll get a second season no matter what but the jury is still out on him. What we want to see is progress, its not happening as much as I expected, we are slightly better in form than we were, 10 games unbeaten but its not happening quick enough and the preformances are not good.
offered next to nothing creatively.

The players are not blameless though, many of them were individually shocking.

When Giggs came on he picked out a couple of good passes that Fellaini and Clev didn't attempt, one was put on a plate for Rooney and he blew it. He was lucky to be on the pitch at that stage. The defending of the free kick was terrible right from Smallings tackle to Evra switching off. I'm pretty sure Moyes will not have expected it to be defended so badly and was livid but to certain extent he brought the pressure on himself by shutting up shop too early, it was a very negative move. I think Fergie would have made that move about 5mins from the end of the game.

It was a bad in day in terms of team selection, subs and individual preformance. Compared to the Arsenal game where a lot of players played well.

I agree with your general point about Moyes and the players maybe needing more time to get accustomed to each other but to talk about the players not being blameless is only confusing the issue imo. There will always be room to blame players whenever things aren't going right, but when the manager brings in poor tactics to a team of champions and they all start playing badly then the issue is the manager, not the players.

Pro. F

bucketybuck wrote: »

Something that has been noted more frequently on here recently, but some people still react in horror when you point it out.

Rooney created absolutely nothing for Hernandez on Sunday. Not a damn thing. He is supposed to be the number 10 but he doesn't play it creatively, he plays it like he is a lone forward, all graft and holding the ball up for the wingers.

Not horror, just dismissal because it is untrue. Rooney is a good number 10, plenty creative, unselfish and he has linked up well with Hernandez (and other centre forwards) in the past. The issue is Moyes and his tactics.

Cantona's Collars

Koke playing atm on SS2.

Witsel also playing for Zenith against him,he's the kind of midfielder we need,he's everywhere unlike our crop of mids who seem to have a certain radius to move within and never deviate from it.

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

I agree with your general point about Moyes and the players maybe needing more time to get accustomed to each other but to talk about the players not being blameless is only confusing the issue imo. There will always be room to blame players whenever things aren't going right, but when the manager brings in poor tactics to a team of champions and they all start playing badly then the issue is the manager, not the players.

True and accurate to a certain extent both old adage "once you send them out over the white line" has some truth to it also. Its hard for us to know exactly what was instructed and did the players follow through.

Its hard to tell. Rooney almost imploded with that silly kick and had he walked we were in trouble. Evra tuned out for the goal and Rooney scuffed an easy chance at the death. Obviously none of this would have been the tactics of Moyes or any manager and individual concentration, discipline and choices come into play.

Moyes was negative yes but even given our poor display and tactics we were so close to winning it.

We were out preformed for long parts, negative by holding and poor by our standards, that is 100% on Moyes. Given that we could have and should have won it, even given the fact we were trying to hold the lead this doesn't mean Evra should have switched off, he should have been more tuned in if anything, the Rooney miss and Welbecks also late on were player mistakes. Those late mistakes which cost us is mostly on the players imo.

n32

The muppet who sent off Nani v Real last season is doing the Celtic Milan game tonight. Obviously the mess he made of the that game hasnt done his career prospects too much damage

Timmyctc

n32 wrote: »

The muppet who sent off Nani v Real last season is doing the Celtic Milan game tonight. Obviously the mess he made of the that game hasnt done his career prospects too much damage

Dont bring that match up

n32

Timmyctc wrote: »

Dont bring that match up

The atmosphere in the ground was so good that night it was such a pity the game was ruined like it was. We played great stuff up till the red card.

Timmyctc

n32 wrote: »

The atmosphere in the ground was so good that night it was such a pity the game was ruined like it was. We played great stuff up till the red card.

I maintain that that game would've been the best game of Giggs career had we continued with 11 men. He was so up for it Roasted Coentrao and Kaka on a few occasions.

n32

Timmyctc wrote: »

I maintain that that game would've been the best game of Giggs career had we continued with 11 men. He was so up for it Roasted Coentrao and Kaka on a few occasions.

he gave an exhibition that night. Makes it all the more annoying when he cant do it against crap teams in the PL

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

Not horror, just dismissal because it is untrue. Rooney is a good number 10, plenty creative, unselfish and he has linked up well with Hernandez (and other centre forwards) in the past. The issue is Moyes and his tactics.

Rooney is an average No 10. He always puts in a good shift, sacrifices himself at times but he is not technically good enough for the no 10 position. His poor technical ability and inadequate creativeness is nothing to do with Moyes. You either have it or you havent. And he hasnt. He is best as a no9 or up front alongside another striker in a 442

niallo27

n32 wrote: »

The muppet who sent off Nani v Real last season is doing the Celtic Milan game tonight. Obviously the mess he made of the that game hasnt done his career prospects too much damage

They are only human sure. We all make mistakes.

Cantona's Collars

Robson99 wrote: »

Rooney is an average No 10. He always puts in a good shift, sacrifices himself at times but he is not technically good enough for the no 10 position. His poor technical ability and inadequate creativeness is nothing to do with Moyes. You either have it or you havent. And he hasnt. He is best as a no9 or up front alongside another striker in a 442

I pretty much agree with this,even when he plays in the #10 position with RVP,he doesn't create a huge amount for him.How many goals have we scored from the 2 of them linking up? Not a whole lot.

Rooney is actually more creative when he moves even deeper but the problem these days is the lack of movement around him,we simply don't have anyone willing to run beyond him when he drops into midfield.99% of the time the ball is spread diagonally to the wing but there's nobody in the centre to cross it to as RVP has also dropped deeper to try to get some service.Even so when it is spread wide,more often than not the ball ends up being passed back to the fullbacks and the momentum of an attack is lost.

Timmyctc

niallo27 wrote: »

They are only human sure. We all make mistakes.

haha lol roflcopterlmaoburgerbbq

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

Rooney is an average No 10. He always puts in a good shift, sacrifices himself at times but he is not technically good enough for the no 10 position. His poor technical ability and inadequate creativeness is nothing to do with Moyes. You either have it or you havent. And he hasnt. He is best as a no9 or up front alongside another striker in a 442

lol

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

lol

You may. But his close control and touch is piss poor at times. Im amazed you dont see this:eek:

Cantona's Collars

United team had a close call coming into land in Germany,the plane was only 400 metres above the runway when it was discovered there was another plane already on it.The pilot had to suddenly abort the landing.

Rio's tweet: #TouchedCloth!!#mufc

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

You may. But his close control and touch is piss poor at times. Im amazed you dont see this:eek:

When he has an off day he has an absolute stinker. That makes people get carried away in their criticisms of him. The rest of the time, which is the vast majority of the time, his close control and touch are excellent.

Robson99

Pro. F wrote: »

When he has an off day he has an absolute stinker. That makes people get carried away in their criticisms of him. The rest of the time, which is the vast majority of the time, his close control and touch are excellent.

I dont get carried away with what my eyes see. Hi close control is not good enough for a player playing in the hole. He covers up his inability to create by covering a lot of ground and his work-rate is very rarely questionable.

Nalz

Robson99 wrote: »

I dont get carried away with what my eyes see. Hi close control is not good enough for a player playing in the hole. He covers up his inability to create by covering a lot of ground and his work-rate is very rarely questionable.

Rubbish

Inability to create are you off your rocker?

Was bad enough someone on here quite recently saying that Fergie was going to sign two CMs and Ronaldo back if he was still in charge, but now this???

Rooney has very good close control and is extremely creative.

Pro. F

Robson99 wrote: »

I dont get carried away with what my eyes see. Hi close control is not good enough for a player playing in the hole. He covers up his inability to create by covering a lot of ground and his work-rate is very rarely questionable.

Good for you. I'm still going to laugh at your idea that he has poor technical ability and is an average number 10, so I guess we are both happy.

Cantona's Collars

Rooney's close control has never been brilliant,you'd notice how many times he receives a ball but has to scamper after it due to a poor first touch.
Of course he is capable of brilliance but first touch isn't one of his strong suits.
Perhaps it's the fact that he can't burst past players at top speed like he used to that has changed his game slightly,he seems reluctant to do it as much these days & prefers to lay the ball off or be a faux midfielder.
Tomorrow night I'd like to see him up top (his best position) with Kagawa behind him.Nani on one wing & Januzaj on the other.Feck it,we are light in midfield so attack could be the best form of defence.

Oregano_State

zerks wrote: »

Tomorrow night I'd like to see [Rooney] up top (his best position) with Kagawa behind him. Nani on one wing & Januzaj on the other.Feck it,we are light in midfield so attack could be the best form of defence.

Would love that also. Pretty much zero chance of that happening though.

Winston Payne

Rooney hasn't showcased a top class performance as a number ten in nearly two years. He doesn't regulate the attacking play well enough, his vision and pass selection isn't up to snuff and his movement isn't right for the role either. He comes way too deep (because he has to "get involved"), he doesn't pull wide and actually exchange with players to give the attack fluidity with any degree of regularity. I hate him in there, it's not a role that suits him and it harms the team's cohesion overall. He looked so much more natural in his movement and comfortable when we switched to 4-3-3 on Sunday, and that's because it's the role that suits him most in the formation that suits him most. As a number 9 his movement across the line is very good, he links with players better, he doesn't come as deep, he doesn't have to interchange half as much.

Pro. F wrote: »

You just saying this to get a rise or something?

Jesus Christ. No, Pro.F, I am not in fact looking to get a rise. He's improved a little outside of the box but not enough. He won't ever improve to the level that we need as a team. He pressed well on Sunday but didn't get involved at all. He's had no shots in the last two games with Rooney behind him, something that reflects poorly on them both. When he's played this year I haven't been satisfied with his performances.

Pro. F

Winston Payne wrote: »

Jesus Christ. No, Pro.F, I am not in fact looking to get a rise. He's improved a little outside of the box but not enough. He won't ever improve to the level that we need as a team. He pressed well on Sunday but didn't get involved at all. He's had no shots in the last two games with Rooney behind him, something that reflects poorly on them both. When he's played this year I haven't been satisfied with his performances.

He'll easily be as good outside the box as RVN or Inzaghi ever were, so that would be as good as we need from a goal poacher. In fact he's probably at their level now already. The last two games yes he hasn't impressed, like so many other players just now. If that was all you were saying I wouldn't find it strange, but not being satisfied with him all year is ridiculously over harsh. Maybe you just don't like goal poachers.

Mocha Joe

Pro. F wrote: »

He'll easily be as good outside the box as RVN or Inzaghi ever were, so that would be as good as we need from a goal poacher. In fact he's probably at their level now already. The last two games yes he hasn't impressed, like so many other players just now. If that was all you were saying I wouldn't find it strange, but not being satisfied with him all year is ridiculously over harsh. Maybe you just don't like goal poachers.

What a completely mental statement.

Pro. F

Mocha Joe wrote: »

What a completely mental statement.

You know I meant at their level in terms of ability outside the box yes?

Mocha Joe

Pro. F wrote: »

You know I meant at their level in terms of ability outside the box yes?

I do now.

Not quite so mental as first thought so.