Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - 2013/14 Mod warning post #718

GSPfan

IF we hadn't pissed off Everton by taking their manager and Fellaini then I'd be hoping we would be after Ross Barkley at some stage over the next two years. Come to think of it, its mad how they sold a 27 million pound player to us and dont look at all weakened by it. They look stronger and better than ever.

Just a side note - if at some stage we are miles away from winning the league and it becomes a race between City, Chelsea, and Arsenal then I'm throwing all my support behind Arsenal. You have to admire their revival this season. Before Ozil signed we were all wondering how far outside the top 4 they'd finish.

The_Kew_Tour

Oh ya Arsenal over City and Chelsea all day long

secman

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Oh ya Arsenal over City and Chelsea all day long

Closet goooooooner !

I know where you are coming from though , was only speaking to a few United lads today about the same topic and all picked the gunners .

SirDelboy18

GSPfan wrote: »

IF we hadn't pissed off Everton

They can hardly begrudge the loss of the manager to one of the biggest jobs in football and they can hardly begrudge losing Fellaini for 27 million.

The whole "derisory and insulting" thing was completely laughable. I suppose their initial bid for James McCarthy was also "derisory and insulting"? They can head on with that attitude.

SirDelboy18

Robson99 wrote: »

But his close control and touch is piss poor at times. Im amazed you dont see this:eek:

Certainly agreed that his touch is pretty poor. In the majority of our games this season it has been pretty evident.

wonderfullife

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

They can hardly begrudge the loss of the manager to one of the biggest jobs in football and they can hardly begrudge losing Fellaini for 27 million.

The whole "derisory and insulting" thing was completely laughable. I suppose their initial bid for James McCarthy was also "derisory and insulting"? They can head on with that attitude.

Ah here Ted all football clubs and fans would begrudge losing their best player and manager to anybody. Forget the fact its United!

All of the above doesn't change the fact Everton are intrinsically strapped for cash.

The Fellaini and Moyes stuff only results in 1 thing - if United come back in for Baines or Barkley, whatever price they could have paid pre-Fellaini+Moyes has now gone up by another £5 million before even negotiating!

Anyway the mind boggles that Manchester United would feel the need to keep raiding Everton?!!! Have they learned nothing from Fellaini so far? Baines and Barkley are 2 good players but they are a) English and b) over-priced due to a).

English players valuations are simply ridiculous. Wouldn't be surprised to see Andros Townsend go for £30m+ in the summer on the back of 2 decent seasons.

Sometimes ya have to question the top clubs transfer policies. The likes of Michu and Loic Remy going to Swansea and QPR for a pittance (wages in the latter) and you have United paying the guts of £30m for Fellaini, Spurs paying £20 odd million for Paulinho (who has been muck), Liverpool £10m+ for Allen etc. All of which play in various positions but illustrate better there is value for money in the likes of Michu out there. He may be one of the few exceptions to the rule but it is out there.

Even Medel at Cardiff, he ran the show against England at Wembley and he's employed in a similar role to Fellaini and is nearly 1/3rd the price.

Vic Vinegar

wonderfullife wrote: »

Even Medel at Cardiff, he ran the show against England at Wembley and he's employed in a similar role to Fellaini and is nearly 1/3rd the price.

He played centre back in that game... you can't compare him to Fellaini based on that.

He is a good player though, bit of a nutter but talented.

wonderfullife

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

He played centre back in that game... you can't compare him to Fellaini based on that.

He is a good player though, bit of a nutter but talented.

ah ya get my point i hope i was only trying to illustrate how both English players and inter-Premier League transfer fees are hyper-inflated

On that basis alone i'm struggling to see the appeal in Baines and Barkley. Especially given there are serious question marks on Baines defensively.

homerjay2005

this is a post i took off redcafe which explains (a little bit) the Herrara deal or more to the point how the release clauses work to a certain extent, when a foreign club is involved..

of course it could simply be put - United interested, but didnt value him at the release clause so the deal didnt take place. however, it doesnt explain why those 3 men were at the league office.

i wonder would it be possible that the deal was dead but the player/his agent/his sponsers were willing to pay the remainder of the clause to push through the move?

considering that it is reported in the media that we agreed the contract and terms with him, it would suggest that the player was really keen as we were and that a deal can be done in January if we are still interested. it could also explain his really poor form.

Summarising then:
Athletic (or whoever) can refuse to accept a payment, even at the clause valuation, from another club. This is true.

It's at this point that the Liga "clause" rules take over. A Spanish club can give the money to the LFP, who pass it on to the sellers, the LFP don't care whether the sellers cash the cheque or not, they just do the paperwork and the contract is transferred.

There is a potential complication on a foreign sale - because the club aren't registered with the LFP so in principle have no legal standing under the clause rule. The implication is that the player would have to pay the clause and be reimbursed by the buying club - this opens a whole can of income tax and VAT worms. However, if you have the right lawyers and have done the work with the tax authorities ahead of time, then the foreign club's money is perfectly acceptable to the LFP. They simply confirm with the player that he wants the contract transferred and it's done.

Which takes us back to the real issue. If we didn't value Herrera at the release clause, we couldn't buy him.

Kilkenny14

Anyone seen Class of 92 yet?

GSPfan

wonderfullife wrote: »

Anyway the mind boggles that Manchester United would feel the need to keep raiding Everton?!!! Have they learned nothing from Fellaini so far? Baines and Barkley are 2 good players but they are a) English and b) over-priced due to a).

Wait, who else other than Fellaini have we bought off Everton? Wayne Rooney. He wasn't overpriced.
I can't think of any other player. We haven't bought Baines because United think exactly like you do - He is over priced.
We haven't bid for Barkley but I can guarantee you here and now he will be worth every million we over pay for him now. In 5 years time we would be looking back on it exactly like the Rooney deal and saying we got a good deal.

And declaring Fellaini as over priced is a bit pre-mature. Give him a season or so and let Moyes bring in more players and then declare it a failure. He is playing with a wrist injury and Moyes has said it could be effecting him. I snapped my wrist years ago and you'd be surprised at how much you use it in a football game. Every bit of contact with players and ground is felt in your wrist if you have a problem.

homerjay2005

GSPfan wrote: »

And declaring Fellaini as over priced is a bit pre-mature. Give him a season or

in all fairness, no matter how well he does for us in the future, he was over priced. we panicked at the end of the deadline and overpaid for him. he is not worth £27.5million nor no where near it.

he may go on and prove he is good enough to be a united player and we all hope he does, but in terms of value, we got absolutely shafted with Fellaini. his real value is around the same as what we paid for Carrick.

IamtheWalrus

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Fellaini...his real value is around the same as what we paid for Carrick.

I think part of what inflated the price was that Everton overpaid for him at £16m so they wanted a tidy profit. Had they paid £10m, Utd might have got him for £15m.

tallaghtmick

So guys whats the team tonight going to be?

gracehopper

Does anyone else think it is nuts that we do not play Kagawa in an advanced midfield role?

I see Cleverley in CM and Welbeck out wide start in front of him most weeks. It is shocking. there is talk of bringing in midfield players in January, why don't we just play the best ones we have and see how we get on?

He was one of the best players in Germany while there. He should be huge for United.

I understand that we need to be more defensive against the top six and possibly some of the counter attacking teams in Europe but for the majority of United's games in the premier league they should be playing 5-6 attacking players like this:

---

DDG
Raf

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Carrick
Valencia

---

Januzai

---

Kagawa----Rooney

---

RVP

All interchangeable, unremarkable players which would cause havoc to teams. When playing bigger teams drop Jones into midfield and take out kagawa.

That team above would steamroll most teams in the premier league. Instead we have to watch "pass it sideways" Cleverley or Welbeck missing 10 chances a game. I'll reserve judgement on Fellaini until he has had a season with us.

The problem at the moment is David Moyes doesn't know his best team. i do have faith in him to succeed though but United are so frustrating at the moment. Simply not playing enough big game, big mentality players.

Backstreet Moyes

[QUOTE=wonderfullife;87712489

Anyway the mind boggles that Manchester United would feel the need to keep raiding Everton?!!! Have they learned nothing from Fellaini so far? Baines and Barkley are 2 good players but they are a) English and b) over-priced due to a).

English players valuations are simply ridiculous. Wouldn't be surprised to see Andros Townsend go for £30m+ in the summer on the back of 2 decent seasons.

Sometimes ya have to question the top clubs transfer policies. The likes of Michu and Loic Remy going to Swansea and QPR for a pittance (wages in the latter) and you have United paying the guts of £30m for Fellaini, Spurs paying £20 odd million for Paulinho (who has been muck), Liverpool £10m+ for Allen etc. All of which play in various positions but illustrate better there is value for money in the likes of Michu out there. He may be one of the few exceptions to the rule but it is out there.

Even Medel at Cardiff, he ran the show against England at Wembley and he's employed in a similar role to Fellaini and is nearly 1/3rd the price.[/QUOTE]

Why is it so mind boggling to raid Everton. United's transfer policy has always been to buy the best players from teams in the league it's not like they go raiding other big teams.

I don't understand your point about learning from the Fellaini transfer. I think he was overpaid for but he was a signing that improved our midfield. It doesn't look like it now because Moyes doesn't know what he wants him too do. Fellaini looks like somebody thrown into midfield but not knowing what role he is supposed to play. I have no doubt he will be a success once he settles into whatever role Moyes wants him to play in. Anybody watching Everton and Belgium in the past will know besides Carrick he is much better than our other options.

On the English and overpriced i do see your point. I have no problem paying a little over the odds for Baines because i think he has been for awhile the best full back in the league. I also think Evra will be heading for the exit this summer especially after his comments Sunday. On the Barkley issue have you something concrete about how we want to sign him. He will cost big money and he is not worth it. Hopefully we have a buy back clause for Morisson who has been better this season and once keeps his head down will be the better player.

I see your point about how cheap foreign signings can be better value. But it's far easier for smaller clubs to sign these players. If United were in for these players their price would be Allie Teeny Trend. It's also easier to get into weaker teams it's very hard to find a cheap gem good enough to slot into top teams. Also if you think Paulinho has been muck i don't believe you have watched Spurs this season.

Medel is not deployed in a similar role to Fellaini. A better comparison would be Jones.

Backstreet Moyes

Has anybody any confidence in a win tonight lads. Betfair offering 7/1 max bet a tenner in you open a new account. The sad thing is i will do it but with very little expectations.

Giggsy11

Nuts102 wrote: »

Has anybody any confidence in a win tonight lads. Betfair offering 7/1 max bet a tenner in you open a new account. The sad thing is i will do it but with very little expectations.

I for one am not confident at all. We will drop as deep as possible and play defensively. Even if we win it will be a troll win with a goal against the run of play.

God I miss watching us play in full flow.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

Has anybody any confidence in a win tonight lads. Betfair offering 7/1 max bet a tenner in you open a new account. The sad thing is i will do it but with very little expectations.

No confidence at all (I'm sure that will shock some of you!)

No RVP, Carrick, Fellaini or Vidic.

Midfield and defence will be weaker than we usually are (!!) and we're without one of our two main strikers.

Reckon Moyes is going to pack the middle and play for the draw.

ericzeking

Just reading some Giggs quotes on SSN

"It has been a crazy season so far," said Giggs.

"We've been in so many title races and from experience, we know we've just got to hang in there while we're not at our brilliant best.

"As long as we're there or thereabouts in January and we get a run together, history shows that the team who does that will have a great chance of winning the league."

Word for word that could very easily have come out of SAFs mouth, it's uncanny.

As for tonight, we will try to be solid and hard to beat, and while I don't think we will be playing for a draw, we will be happy with it. We've been like this in Europe for donkeys year but no doubt Moyes will be crucified tomorrow even if we get a result. We are away from home in Germany with a few players missing...going gung-ho all out attack would be pretty unprofessional, entertaining and all as it would be.

Valencia, Jones, Clev, Giggs and I'm gonna go for Nani as a counter attacking option as a 5 behind Rooney.

Your Airbag

gracehopper wrote: »

Does anyone else think it is nuts that we do not play Kagawa in an advanced midfield role?

I see Cleverley in CM and Welbeck out wide start in front of him most weeks. It is shocking. there is talk of bringing in midfield players in January, why don't we just play the best ones we have and see how we get on?

He was one of the best players in Germany while there. He should be huge for United.

I understand that we need to be more defensive against the top six and possibly some of the counter attacking teams in Europe but for the majority of United's games in the premier league they should be playing 5-6 attacking players like this:

---

DDG
Raf

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Carrick
Valencia

---

Januzai

---

Kagawa----Rooney

---

RVP

All interchangeable, unremarkable players which would cause havoc to teams. When playing bigger teams drop Jones into midfield and take out kagawa.

That team above would steamroll most teams in the premier league. Instead we have to watch "pass it sideways" Cleverley or Welbeck missing 10 chances a game. I'll reserve judgement on Fellaini until he has had a season with us.

The problem at the moment is David Moyes doesn't know his best team. i do have faith in him to succeed though but United are so frustrating at the moment. Simply not playing enough big game, big mentality players.

That would leave us with only one DMF, teams would waltz through us given the amount of trouble we are having with two atm.

Backstreet Moyes

If we are going to play counter attacking football we need Nani playing to take some pressure off. Valencia just cannot play counter attack football at all. Didn't realise Carrick is out also big trouble. Expect to see something like below.

DDG

Smalling Jones Evans Evra


Jones Cleverley

Nani Kagawa Janjuaz


Rooney

Backstreet Moyes

gracehopper wrote: »

Does anyone else think it is nuts that we do not play Kagawa in an advanced midfield role?

I see Cleverley in CM and Welbeck out wide start in front of him most weeks. It is shocking. there is talk of bringing in midfield players in January, why don't we just play the best ones we have and see how we get on?

He was one of the best players in Germany while there. He should be huge for United.

I understand that we need to be more defensive against the top six and possibly some of the counter attacking teams in Europe but for the majority of United's games in the premier league they should be playing 5-6 attacking players like this:

---

DDG
Raf

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Carrick
Valencia

---

Januzai

---

Kagawa----Rooney

---

RVP

All interchangeable, unremarkable players which would cause havoc to teams. When playing bigger teams drop Jones into midfield and take out kagawa.

That team above would steamroll most teams in the premier league. Instead we have to watch "pass it sideways" Cleverley or Welbeck missing 10 chances a game. I'll reserve judgement on Fellaini until he has had a season with us.

The problem at the moment is David Moyes doesn't know his best team. i do have faith in him to succeed though but United are so frustrating at the moment. Simply not playing enough big game, big mentality players.

The only way of playing Kagawa and Rooney behind RVP is if you play with no wingers and 3 in the middle of the field.

Mitch Connor

Nuts102 wrote: »

If we are going to play counter attacking football we need Nani playing to take some pressure off. Valencia just cannot play counter attack football at all. Didn't realise Carrick is out also big trouble. Expect to see something like below.

DDG

Smalling Jones Evans Evra


Jones Cleverley

Nani Kagawa Janjuaz


Rooney

If counter attacking is the main game plan, I would agree. I think we are going to see defending as the main game plan though - so I expect both Valencia and Welbeck to start in place of Nani and Januzaj on your lineup. Would also expect Giggs for Kagawa.

You also have Jones in your team twice! Rio in defence instead of him there.

Cantona's Collars

Match thread here folks: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057092244

tallaghtmick

Nuts102 wrote: »

The only way of playing Kagawa and Rooney behind RVP is if you play with no wingers and 3 in the middle of the field.

Fingers crossed we start catching up with the times and abandon the winger system as a 1st team formation.

Mitch Connor

tallaghtmick wrote: »

Fingers crossed we start catching up with the times and abandon the winger system as a 1st team formation.

Considering how ineffective the fookers have been this season it is surprising we haven't.

Januzaj isn't a winger, Kagawa isn't a winger - we could use those two better infield, with the support being offered by the fullbacks, which is where the width is coming from anyway.

The natural game of Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj (as well as Nani) would see them move into the space in the channels as the game developed anyway.

I'd like to see

---

DDG
---Evans----Vidiv
Raf

---

Evra

---

Carrick
---Cleverley-Fellaini

---

Kagawa
----Rooney--RVP.

Carrick anchoring the midfield. Raf and Evra attacking in the same way they do now, Carrick covering in behind when needed. Fellaini and Cleverly taking on box-to-box roles.

Kagawa playing centrally, drifting wide as the dictates. Rooney in a free role - not stuck up top. Dropping deep or wide as he doesn. RVP as the lead striker.

If the game needs more defending, drop Fellaini in beside Carrick a bit, have the two of them protecting the backline.

Valencia could come in for Raf at right back in some games, better than playing Jones/Smalling there. Jones could be used in the anchor role, with Carrick further forward instead of Fellaini or Cleverly. Januzaj is the natural replacement for Kagawa. Nani can come in, with a formation tweak, for Rooney. As could Welbeck.

Obviously I would like a better CM pairing than Fellaini and Cleverley, but they'd be the options I would go with now.

It would offer no less productivity from the wings as Young and Valencia have give us nowt. Get better use of Januzaj/Kagawa centrally. Remove the creative no.10 role from Rooney (which I don't think he is suited to at all). It would strengthen the centre of the pitch, where our problems generally come from.

My big concern would be the opposition full backs - they could be rampant if something wasn't worked out about tracking them, without having a traditional winger to do that job. Reckon you would need one of the CMs (Cleverley and Fellaini) to move across, one helping the full back and the other taking the central defensive midfield position - with possibly the AMC helping out as well, to a point.

KH25

Nuts102 wrote: »

The only way of playing Kagawa and Rooney behind RVP is if you play with no wingers and 3 in the middle of the field.

Id be delighted to see us try a game without wingers for once. Fellaini, Clev and Ando or something behind RVP, Rooney and Kagawa. Its not as though our wingers have been anything special this year, and the two that deserve a chance are getting shafted.

magnumbud

gracehopper wrote: »

Does anyone else think it is nuts that we do not play Kagawa in an advanced midfield role?

I see Cleverley in CM and Welbeck out wide start in front of him most weeks. It is shocking. there is talk of bringing in midfield players in January, why don't we just play the best ones we have and see how we get on?

He was one of the best players in Germany while there. He should be huge for United.

I understand that we need to be more defensive against the top six and possibly some of the counter attacking teams in Europe but for the majority of United's games in the premier league they should be playing 5-6 attacking players like this:

---

DDG
Raf

---

Rio

---

Vidic

---

Evra

---

Carrick
Valencia

---

Januzai

---

Kagawa----Rooney

---

RVP

All interchangeable, unremarkable players which would cause havoc to teams. When playing bigger teams drop Jones into midfield and take out kagawa.

That team above would steamroll most teams in the premier league. Instead we have to watch "pass it sideways" Cleverley or Welbeck missing 10 chances a game. I'll reserve judgement on Fellaini until he has had a season with us.

The problem at the moment is David Moyes doesn't know his best team. i do have faith in him to succeed though but United are so frustrating at the moment. Simply not playing enough big game, big mentality players.

think that would leave us way to open in midfield even against smaller teams that play 451 would out number us there and even with suggesting them both working back it would limit rooney and i havent seen enough to prove that kagawa would work back enough.

Nuts102 wrote: »

If we are going to play counter attacking football we need Nani playing to take some pressure off. Valencia just cannot play counter attack football at all. Didn't realise Carrick is out also big trouble. Expect to see something like below.

DDG

Smalling Jones Evans Evra


Jones Cleverley

Nani Kagawa Janjuaz


Rooney

your going to drop RVP in favour of kagawa? 0 sense at all. fine if RVP is out but even with that i would put the little pea on instead and play rooney in the hole.

I get people like kagawa and i am a fan of his but trying to force a way to fit him in is just mad IMO hes unlucky that rooney and RVP are both there limiting his chances of his best role but limiting our 2 best players for a player who hasnt been showing enough is mad. i know left wing is not his role but rooney has been put out there and done a great job there many a time and it kagawa should be trying to do the same to make himself undroppable and then maybe we can think of bending the formation to suit him

Backstreet Moyes

magnumbud wrote: »

think that would leave us way to open in midfield even against smaller teams that play 451 would out number us there and even with suggesting them both working back it would limit rooney and i havent seen enough to prove that kagawa would work back enough.


your going to drop RVP in favour of kagawa? 0 sense at all. fine if RVP is out but even with that i would put the little pea on instead and play rooney in the hole.

I get people like kagawa and i am a fan of his but trying to force a way to fit him in is just mad IMO hes unlucky that rooney and RVP are both there limiting his chances of his best role but limiting our 2 best players for a player who hasnt been showing enough is mad. i know left wing is not his role but rooney has been put out there and done a great job there many a time and it kagawa should be trying to do the same to make himself undroppable and then maybe we can think of bending the formation to suit him

Sorry my team selection is what i was thinking about tonight. We are so light i thrown Jones in twice. I presume Ferdinand will probably get the nod to go ahead.

magnumbud

Nuts102 wrote: »

Sorry my team selection is what i was thinking about tonight. We are so light i thrown Jones in twice. I presume Ferdinand will probably get the nod to go ahead.

ah right sorry i thought you were saying in general

Backstreet Moyes

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Considering how ineffective the fookers have been this season it is surprising we haven't.

Januzaj isn't a winger, Kagawa isn't a winger - we could use those two better infield, with the support being offered by the fullbacks, which is where the width is coming from anyway.

The natural game of Rooney, Kagawa and Januzaj (as well as Nani) would see them move into the space in the channels as the game developed anyway.

I'd like to see

---

DDG
---Evans----Vidiv
Raf

---

Evra

---

Carrick
---Cleverley-Fellaini

---

Kagawa
----Rooney--RVP.

Carrick anchoring the midfield. Raf and Evra attacking in the same way they do now, Carrick covering in behind when needed. Fellaini and Cleverly taking on box-to-box roles.

Kagawa playing centrally, drifting wide as the dictates. Rooney in a free role - not stuck up top. Dropping deep or wide as he doesn. RVP as the lead striker.

If the game needs more defending, drop Fellaini in beside Carrick a bit, have the two of them protecting the backline.

Valencia could come in for Raf at right back in some games, better than playing Jones/Smalling there. Jones could be used in the anchor role, with Carrick further forward instead of Fellaini or Cleverly. Januzaj is the natural replacement for Kagawa. Nani can come in, with a formation tweak, for Rooney. As could Welbeck.

Obviously I would like a better CM pairing than Fellaini and Cleverley, but they'd be the options I would go with now.

It would offer no less productivity from the wings as Young and Valencia have give us nowt. Get better use of Januzaj/Kagawa centrally. Remove the creative no.10 role from Rooney (which I don't think he is suited to at all). It would strengthen the centre of the pitch, where our problems generally come from.

My big concern would be the opposition full backs - they could be rampant if something wasn't worked out about tracking them, without having a traditional winger to do that job. Reckon you would need one of the CMs (Cleverley and Fellaini) to move across, one helping the full back and the other taking the central defensive midfield position - with possibly the AMC helping out as well, to a point.

People are being kind saying our wingers haven't performed this year. It's been a good 18 months since any winger has shown any decent run of form. I am actually amazed Moyes has not once tried out the formation you suggested.

Rafael is probably the best crosser of the ball and would be great in this system. On Evra i'm a bit meh he can be so lazy at times with tracking back. He is great at bombing forward but his final ball is very poor most of the time. If we got Baines his crossing would be very effective in this system. Him and Rafael are better crossers then our wingers. We also have Carrick who would happily sit deep and not wonder off leaving us caught out. Also like you said Rooney, Kagawa and Janjuaz are all better centrally. I also think Nani could play centrally also. I really hope moyes tries to move towards your formation.

Cantona's Collars

I knows it's the DM but worth a look,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2514333/Ryan-Giggs-10-greatest-goals-Manchester-United.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2512823/Ryan-Giggs-40th-birthday-Manchester-United-legends-40-best-pictures-Premier-league-career.html

sReq | uTeK

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No confidence at all (I'm sure that will shock some of you!)

No RVP, Carrick, Fellaini or Vidic.

Midfield and defence will be weaker than we usually are (!!) and we're without one of our two main strikers.

Reckon Moyes is going to pack the middle and play for the draw.

And nor should you be confident, Lever are on fire this year, 2nd in the German league, won 8 out of their last 8 at home in the champions league, the only time they've failed to win this year at home was a 1-1 draw to munich last month.

Even if United were top of the league and obliterating teams, I wouldn't be feeling confident.

Shane St.

Not confident at all 2night. No carrick, vidic or RVP and they are in great form

Oregano_State

We completely outplayed them at Old Trafford. I don't care about their form, we should go there and aim to win. End of story.

magnumbud

Oregano_State wrote: »

We completely outplayed them at Old Trafford. I don't care about their form, we should go there and aim to win. End of story.

yeah we did but we had a fairly strong team out. we are missing RVP, vidic and carrick and a few others.

bullvine

The game at Old Trafford was probably the only time we've played well this season, hopefully a repeat tonight.

TheDoc

Mitch posted a tremendous formation there, something I thought we might see with the introduction of Fellaini.

However I think with a team that has played 4-4-2 for most of it's winning life, with the occasional 4-5-1 away from home, introducing a new dynamic formation might require the offseason to fine tune. Introducing it at this stage might bring along more upset and poor performances and results.

I do feel though we have gotten as much we can with 4-4-2. In saying that, it's re-surged this season with City utilising it to devastating effect, and I've a feeling Spurs might implement it aswell.

We have the benefit of having two pretty good fullbacks with engines in Evra and Rafael. I think Buttner could also be a good wingback, we don't really have someone to do it on the right unless converting Valencia into a fullback full time. But thats key to a more dynamic formation, and we have it. I just don't think we will see it coming soon.

It's also a rather "foreign" concept, with more English minded managers, the height of their experiments will be 4-5-1's, and 4-4-2 is the old reliable.

I would love to see Mitch's formation, or even a 4-2-3-1, Carrick and Fellaini holding with Kagawa, Rooney and Nani/Janners moving fluidly inbehind RVP. Again requires good wingbacks, but we have a solid base to work from with Carrick and Fellaini.

At the moment our CM's are more suited to defensive duties rather then linking up the play offensively, it's why I feel we need to deploy a more fluid front 4-6, rather the rigid wingers and forward men.

Pro. F

Imo such narrow formations are only for teams who are very comfortable in possession. Either that or you have to dope your players up good and proper for all the extra running they'll be doing every time they win or lose the ball.

ericzeking

Pro. F wrote: »

Imo such narrow formations are only for teams who are very comfortable in possession. Either that or you have to dope your players up good and proper for all the extra running they'll be doing every time they win or lose the ball.

Surely there's no doping in soccer?

Sure only cyclists dope!!! :pac:

Maximus Alexander

ericzeking wrote: »

Surely there's no doping in soccer?

Sure only cyclists dope!!! :pac:

Hehe, was just talking about this over lunch. Obviously there's no hard evidence, but I'd be very surprised if doping is not rife in top level football.

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Hehe, was just talking about this over lunch. Obviously there's no hard evidence, but I'd be very surprised if doping is not rife in top level football.

Oh evidence existed alright, but unfortunately it was destroyed earlier this year, or at least it's distruction was sanctioned by the Spanish authorities.

For some interesting bedtime reading check out Operation Puerto, which was largely investigated in relation to cyclists but there are quite a few other sports implicated also.

Maximus Alexander

ericzeking wrote: »

Oh evidence existed alright, but unfortunately it was destroyed earlier this year, or at least it's distruction was sanctioned by the Spanish authorities.

For some interesting bedtime reading check out Operation Puerto, which was largely investigated in relation to cyclists but there are quite a few other sports implicated also.

Aye, I've read a bit about it all right but I didn't think they had solid evidence, I thought it was more rumours and "my word against yours".

Headshot

We all know ando doesnt dope thats for sure

ericzeking

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Aye, I've read a bit about it all right but I didn't think they had solid evidence, I thought it was more rumours and "my word against yours".

Earlier this year, the Spanish authorities ruled to destroy something like 200 blood bags and documents seized as part of the investigations, as their investigations were related to public health and not anti-doping, since in Spain doping is not a criminal offence (pretty sure on that).... The villian of the piece was a Dr. Fuentes who had a client list of about 60 athletes, he testified that they were from a number of sports, the cyclists made up about half and were generally named iirc, the other half were from other sports. You can decide for yourself who they may have been.



Apologies for the non exact figures but they are roughly correct.



We may be straying marginally off topic here!!

Vic Vinegar

Sidney Sam out injured for Leverkusen, he'll be a big miss for them.

KH25

Headshot wrote: »

We all know ando doesnt dope thats for sure

Or Valencia. Unless he just takes so much that he forgets what he's doing.

Headshot

KH25 wrote: »

Or Valencia. Unless he just takes so much that he forgets what he's doing.

Na he takes Speed

Your Airbag

Pro. F wrote: »

Imo such narrow formations are only for teams who are very comfortable in possession. Either that or you have to dope your players up good and proper for all the extra running they'll be doing every time they win or lose the ball.

This would be my worry exactly. Its essentially a diamond formation with Carrick, Clev and Fellaini making up 3/4's of it but not a bad idea. You need technically good players with very good close control and it we don't have them in MF yet and it requires a total change in philosophy of the squad which we are not ready for atm.

It worked well against Newcastle. We had something like 78% in the first 5 mins and three goals but Fergie ditched it after 6 games because not only didn't it work thereafter, but we got ran over when we tried to use it. He used Carrick as the anchor and had Kag and Clev out wide with Ronney central and Welbeck and RVP up front in that Newcastle game iirc.

A diamond of Roo/Kag/Clev/Carrick > Kag/Fell/Clev/Carrick but maybe we could drop Clev or Fellaini for Januzaj with Roo and RVP up top.

I'd have my doubts whether Clev, Fell or Januzaj would be good enough to fit in this system. Even though Clev was part of that diamond at Newcastle it essentially took Newcastle by surprise because we had never used it before then and as soon as Newcastle made a tactical adjustment we didn't control the centre of midfield as much.

Its the same system Italy used in the Euros when they played England off the park. You can see below the way Fergie had the diamond wrap around the oppositions two central midfeilders and it allows for you to control the centre of the park




Mitch suggests the full backs bomb on and this is where we get our width from. That makes sense as long as the MF cover them. To do that you need a MF destroyer type player. Fergie didn't have one but we could have that player now in Fellaini, this would require dropping Carrick as the anchor though and I'm not sure Fell's passing is as good as Carricks though. It comes down to us needing the right players in MF again.